jewhovas witness deny the important doctrines of christianty and jesus

WebersHome · Jun 6, 2015

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†. John 10:31-36 . . Once more the Jews lifted up stones to stone him. Jesus
replied to them: I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For
which of those works are you stoning me?

. . .The Jews answered him: We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for
blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.

. . . Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your Law "I said: you are
gods”? If he called "gods" those against whom the word of God came, and
yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do you say to me whom the Father
sanctified and dispatched into the world "You blaspheme" because I said, I
am God's son?

The Scripture to which Christ referred is this one;

†. Ps 85:6 . . I myself have said "You are gods, and all of you are sons of
the Most High."

Actually, it's not a very nice thing to be called a god seeing as how according
to John 17:3 there is only one true god, so that by default all other gods are
false gods because there is no intermediate classification of gods in the Bible
between the true and the false; just as there is no intermediate classification
of executive decisions between the foolish and the wise.

Are "all of you" really sons of the Most High? Only as it relates to the people
of Israel. God is their paterfamilias in that He brought them into existence
by means of a miracle: the child Isaac.

†. 1Sam 29:10 . . David blessed Jehovah before the eyes of all the
congregation and David said "Blessed may you be, O Jehovah the God of
Israel, our Father"

†. Isa 63:16 . . For you are our Father; although Abraham himself may not
have known us and Israel himself may not recognize us, you, O Jehovah, are
our Father.

†. Isa 64:8 . . And now, O Jehovah, you are our Father. We are the clay, and
you are our Potter; and all of us of us are the work of your hand.

"all of us" of course pertains only to Abraham's descendants through Isaac
and Jacob.

I would say that John 10:31-36 is very useful for proving that Christ is really
and truly one of Jacob's biological descendants or otherwise he would have
no right to apply Ps 85:6 to himself like he did.

But of course, if the whole family of Israel are gods, then the whole family of
Israel are idolaters because there is only one true god. So; if Christ isn't the
one true god, then he too is an idolater because he was born a member of
the family of Israel.

†. Heb 7:14 . . For it is quite plain that our Lord has sprung up out of Judah

I've heard that the Watch Tower Society identifies itself as the true people of
Israel. Well; maybe they don't realize it but when the Society did that, they
assumed all of Israel's liabilities; one of which of course is Ps 85:6. In other
words: "you are gods" now applies to the Society; and seeing as how there
is only one true god, then the Society's governing body consists of false
gods; which of course means that every name listed in the Society's
governing body is an idolater.

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IvoryTusk · Jun 7, 2015

Re: Jehovah's Witness deny the important doctrines of christianty and jesus

Bowman said:

IvoryTusk said:

I read his words. He seems often correct to me. Let me ask you simply...do you really love NWL?
If you say yes, will you do so because you know it is the answer the bible says you should give?
I am not seeking to mock you, I am just answering you about what I have read in this thread. Love does not seem to be the thing demonstrated enough.

Also I see your arguments. I honestly from my heart do not think you are understanding how much the bible was perverted just as Jesus and his apostles said it would be after their death.
When you see all the religions of the world embracing pagan teachings like the cross why are you not alarmed? Are you alarmed?

this next part may seem harsh, I hope it is not taken that way. I must illuminate this point though.

there is a vital reason the cross is relevant to this conversation. If most of the worlds religions use it in their worship, if they use the thing Jesus was supposedly murdered on, what other things are "orthodox" that are pagan in origin? what is more orthodox then the cross?

Are we helping people to learn the danger or the cross in their worship and how it would earn Gods disapproval according to the bible? What other pagan things are part of the "orthodox christian religions?" Is it not absolutely vitel we know? the bible says it is!

So here is what I am asking. Are you trying to have the truth be what you want? Because the fact that NWL does not go along with this worlds religions that have embraced many pagan things speaks well of him. Why not praise him for it instead of arguing he should embrace what they are doing?

I realize what you are saying. I am though asking you to rethink why you are saying it.

For example, Christmas is a pagan holiday. Should NWL partake in Christmas like all these religions? Is it not telling that all those religions celebrating Easter, named after a pagan god and using pagan fertility symbols of rabbits and eggs are happy to embrace all the other pagan teachings?

what I worry about is you thinking that Christian orthodoxy is a good thing, when the bible says it is not!
I would beg you, and I mean beg you to think and pray about this...are you seeking to prove yourself right or God?

From what I see NWL is doing his best to worship God correctly. Even if you think he is not correct, should you not love him dearly? Should you not applaud him for being sincere? Do you think he is sincere?
I see him as sincere, though not perfectly correct, and I am curious why you do not if you do not.

I will agree with you about one thing. NWL had engaged in arguing. so therefore how can he expect anyone to see him as sincere?
Jesus was very clear, if people do not want to know the truths we know, then you move on.
would you not agree Jesus is correct? Because honestly you are arguing a lot, and I am sorry but you are not doing so kindly.

If you and NWL are praying to God to show you the truth and give you humility to correct your beliefs when proven wrong then you are truly seeking truth.
NWL will you pray to God for help being humble? Will you seek to correct yourself like the bible instructs we all should?
what good it is after all if we argue religion to prove what we have heard all our lives if it is not in line with God?

Consider the Jews that left true religion for hundreds of years. Consider how hard it was for them when they were told that the religion that had known all their life had become mixed with pagan teachings just like today.
I am sure many argued similar to how you are here. It is hard to change because we might feel "how could all our worship have been in vain?
It is not though if we change when God corrects us!

It does not matter if we are right or if we are wrong. I would rather be wrong every time if it meant I learned what God told me was right. Would you? I do not mean to sound like I think I am better then you. Perhaps in this one way I am, but I know I am your servant.

I have taken this time to type all this for you and you alone. I honestly see where you are mistaken as I read this thread. I must choose the bible over what is now considered "orthodox" because the bible tells me too.
If you seek to argue YOUR side how will you ever learn when you are wrong? We are all wrong, only God is correct.

Ask yourself, "am I seeking to reaffirm my beliefs or am I seeking to carefully learns Gods will?"
I believe if you practice this that you will begin to see where you are making mistakes.

One thing we know, the bible makes it clear that most people will not please the true God even when they are certain they were! why? because they allowed themselves to worship God how THEY sought to. Pride prevented them form changing. If it cost us our lives how sad.

So consider this. After Jesus and his apostles were gone, apostasy set in. Look how brutal the Catholic church was, burning you alive for reading the bible! Is the orthodoxy that church set up not something you should carefully question?
They mixed pagan teaching after pagan teaching and even tried to change the bible! Hell is not a bible teaching it was a pagan teaching. Ask yourself why Egypt taught about hell when Moses was alive while the Jews did not!

Why would God torture you forever, allow his enemy torture you forever for a few years of sin? So when we see that Satan is destroyed and the King James bible says Hell was thrown into the lake of fire, we begin to see how pagan teachings truly perverted the truth!

The word hell was never in the bible until the Catholics put it there! pagans had taught baout hell for thousands of years. the bible says we turn to dust and cease to exist when we die unless we are brought back to life (Eccl. 9:5,10)
It was Satan that taught we would not really die, remember?So we start to see. Maybe some things you have been taught are not agreeing with God.

If that is so, what is better? Think please about this.
What good is it if we argue we are right? We should not. We must, despite how much it hurts, rethink our motives and pray like our lives depend on it, for God to help us see the truth.

I feel strongly if you pray, and while you pray you ask yourself, "am I being really sincere?"
Pray for God to help you know what is truth. If you keep doing that you will make sure you are seeking truth.

What harm can it do to ask God to help you know truth? to help you change your beliefs if HE wants you too. Not because NWL wants you too. I fear NWL has not understood this.
If we know the truth about something that does not makes us a better person in God's eyes!

I wish you well with this. I hope you see how sincere I am. I will pray for you after writing this. I beg you to pray as above. Let us come together, for only one reason, to find Gods thoughts! How precious.

It says we should work out our faith with "fear and trembling" Let us keep that in mind and practice it.
With brotherly love I speak and If I seek in any way to distort truth I should receive punishment fitting.

WebersHome · Jun 7, 2015

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†. Matt 22:41-46 . . Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus
asked them a question; saying: What do you think about the Christ, whose
son is He? They said to Him: The son of David. He said to them: Then how
does David in the Spirit call Him "Lord" saying: The Lord said to my Lord: Sit
at My right hand until I put thine enemies beneath thy feet. If David then
calls Him "Lord" how is He his son?

Jesus quoted Psalm 110:1, where there are two distinct Hebrew words for
"lord". The first is yhvh, a name reserved exclusively for God. The second is
'adown, which is a very common title of respect for one's superiors in the
Old Testament. Sarah revered her husband Abraham as 'adown (Gen 18:12)
Rachel revered her dad Laban as 'adown (Gen 31:5) and Jacob revered his
brother Esau as 'adown (Gen 33:8). So then; Psalm 110:1 can be translated
like this:

"The utterance of Jehovah to my superior: Sit at my right hand until I place
your enemies as a stool for your feet."

Well; let me tell you something: anybody who knew the Old Testament in
Jesus' day knew good and well from Ps 89:27 that David has no superiors
but God because no king that you might name is David's superior other than
Yhvh: the king of all kings. Yet here on the pages of Jewish scripture is one
of David's own grandchildren outranking him.

Now; here's something else that I'm 110% positive crossed the minds of
Jesus' learned opposition. To their way of thinking, David's position as God's
firstborn as per Ps 89:27 is irrevocable. Well; seeing as how there is no
intermediate rank between the firstborn's position and the paterfamilias'
position, that would mean that the superior about whom David spoke in Ps
110:1 is equal in power and rank to God; which is a blasphemous suggestion
to say the least. (chuckle) Those poor know-it-all Pharisees were utterly
baffled beyond words.

†. Matt 22:46 . . And no one was able to answer him a word

Well; no surprise there. This was something not only strange to their Jewish
way of thinking; but entirely new, yet there it was in black and white in their
own scriptures; and they had somehow failed to catch its significance until
Jesus drew their attention to it.

What the Watch Tower Society seems unaware is that a human doesn't have
to be God in order to hold the rank of God; no, the human only needs to be
promoted to the rank of God; and as such then qualifies to not only sit upon
God's throne as God; but also to use God's name as its own. According to
Dan 7:13-17 and Php 2:8-11 this is exactly how it is that one of David's
grandchildren outranks him.

But though the now-deified Jesus Christ is entitled to all the worship,
service, and respect that the name of God deserves; he remains subordinate
to a higher power.

†. 1Cor 15:27-28 . . For God "subjected all things under his feet." But when
he says that "all things have been subjected" it is evident that it is with the
exception of the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will
have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to
the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to
everyone.

Joseph's experience is an interesting parallel to Christ's unique situation.
Joseph began his sojourn in the land of Egypt as a nobody; and in time was
falsely accused of a felony and sent to prison. From thence he was elevated
to the rank of pharaoh. He wasn't the actual pharaoh, but his position was
equal in power to the actual pharaoh and nobody in Egypt was higher in rank
than him except the actual pharaoh.

†. Gen 41:40-44 . .You will personally be over my house, and all my people
will obey you implicitly. Only as to the throne shall I be greater than you.
And Pharaoh added to Joseph: See, I do place you over all the land of Egypt.
With that Pharaoh removed his signet ring from his own hand and put it
upon Joseph's hand and clothed him with garments of fine linen and placed a
necklace of gold about his neck.

. . . Moreover, he had him ride in the second chariot of honor that he had, so
that they should call out ahead of him: Kneel! thus putting him over all the
land of Egypt. And Pharaoh further said to Joseph: I am Pharaoh, but
without your authorization no man may lift up his hand or his foot in all the
land of Egypt.

Joseph's brothers fell in line.

†. Gen 44:18 . . Judah now came near to him and said: I pray you, my
master, please let your slave speak a word in the hearing of my master, and
do not let your anger grow hot against your slave, because it is the same
with you as with Pharaoh.

So it is with Christ: viz: when people deal with Jesus Christ; it's all the same
as dealing with God; and they'll treat him as God too if they know what's
good for them.

†. Isa 45:23 . . I am God, and there is no one else. By my own self I have
sworn-- out of my own mouth in righteousness the word has gone forth, so
that it will not return --that to me every knee will bend down, every tongue
will swear

†. Php 2:10 . . In the name of Jesus every knee should bend-- of those in
heaven, and those on earth, and those under the ground --and every tongue
should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Sovereign: to the glory of
God the Father.

NOTE: Some Witnesses object to labeling Jesus "sovereign" claiming the
ancient Greek word only indicates a title of respect like Sir, Lord, Mister, or
Master.

However; the Greek word that the Watch Tower Society renders "Lord" at
Php 2:9-11 is the very same word that it renders "Jehovah" at Matt 1:20.
Matt 1:22, and Matt 1:24, Matt 2:13, Matt 2:15 etc, etc, etc.

Kurios is a lot more than a mere title of common courtesy. It also pertains to
someone in actual authority, and if Php 2:9-11 is studied in concert with Dan
7:13-14 and 1Pet 3:22, it's readily apparent that "sovereign" is the
appropriate title for Jesus Christ.

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IvoryTusk · Jun 8, 2015

Here is a little bit of a post I am about to make...I thought this would help those trying to understand the bible's view on the "trinity" Without nearly as much information to make it simpler. For much more information read my next post or feel free to e mail me for much more information still! ([email protected])

Here is a portion of my post....

Aside from Jesus saying things like "the father is greater then I" at John 14:28 and " I seek to do not
my will, but my Fathers will" John 5:30 and Nobody is good but the father" Luke 18:19 The bible makes it
clear from hundreds of scriptures that only if Jesus is God's lesser son as it plainly says can there be internal harmony.

Also Jesus is, like a good son, in subjection to his father. Read 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 15:28. Again not
God, but lesser than God!

Paul said Jesus would never think of making himself equal to God! Read Philippians 2:5-9 and see that not
only is Christ not equal to God but he would NEVER consider himself equal to God! because he would never think of himself that way, God (the superior life
form) gave him an exalted position! I ask you, how can God give God a higher position then God for
not thinking he is equal to God? Which is how little that makes sense if you believe in the trinity!

Like so many scriptures, it only makes sense if Jesus is God's son and not himself God.
I will soon as possible list all of the scriptures that make it clear that Jesus is God's created son...It will be a VERY long list.
Then we will compare it to the list ( it will not be a real list, but only 2 scriptures, feel free to add any others for everyone to see) used by those believing in the trinity. An honest heart will lead us to see the truth and worship God in truth according to the bible, not according to a pagan doctrine!

We will see that if Jesus is God's beloved son, every scripture makes sense, or that if he is God hundreds of scriptures make no sense at all!

IvoryTusk · Jun 8, 2015

John 14:28; 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28 all make it incredibly clear that Jesus is not God or equal to God.
Even still there are many more that make the same point. Yet some point to a few
scriptures that they use to hold up the Trinity teaching?
How can the trinity be true and also those 3 scriptures above?
What about the hundreds of other scriptures that all indicate the same as the above scriptures?
Who first taught the "trinity" as the word trinity nor it's teaching are found anywhere in the bible?

Let's answer these questions and more in a way that cannot be argued, so we reason together and come to accurate knowledge as the bible says we should.
Consider all of the following as I am sure it will shed some light on whether or not the trinity is supported by the bible.

First let's consider sources outside the bible then more vital ,ones within the bible!

Cardinal Hosius A early Catholic writer said the following “We believe the doctrine of a triune God, because we have received it by tradition, though not mentioned at all in Scripture.” (Conf. Cathol. Fidei, Chap. XXVI)

Arthur Weigall, in his book The Paganism in Our Christianity, states: “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’
appear.” He says the idea of a coequal trinity “was only adopted by the [Roman Catholic] Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is
entirely pagan.”

He also said that Aristotle pointed the following out...

The ancient Egyptians, whose influence on early religious thought was profound, usually arranged their gods or goddesses in trinities: there was the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and
Horus, the trinity of Amen, Mut, and Khonsu, the trinity of Khnum, Satis, and Anukis, and so forth.

Keep these views in mind as we move forward.

There are three texts (1 John 5:7, AV; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14) that speak of the Father, Son and holy spirit in formal connection, but not one of these says anything about a trinity. If the trinity doctrine is the central doctrine of “Christian” religion, why, out of 31,173 verses in the Bible, should there be only three to use Father, Son and holy spirit in formal connection, and one of these, that is, 1 John 5:7 admittedly spurious? John wrote this letter in Greek in the first century, but 1 John 5:7 cannot be found in any Greek manuscript written earlier than the fifteenth century. Concerning the verse, Bishop Lowth says: “I believe there is
no one among us, in the least degree conversant with sacred criticism, and having the use of his understanding, who would be willing to contend for the genuineness of the verse 1 John
5:7.” Dr. Adam Clarke, in his Commentary, closes a lengthy dissertation on this verse in these words: “In short, it stands on no authority sufficient to authenticate any part of a revelation professing to have come from God.” Therefore, 1 John 5:7 is rejected by all impartial scholars of God’s Word.As for Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14, they say nothing about there being three coequal persons in one God. They do not say that each of these mentioned is a God. They do not say that all three are equal in substance, power and eternity. They do not say all are to be worshiped. Since they do not say these things, then they do not teach the trinity, for all those claims are made concerning the trinity

NOW ONTO THE BIBLE ...
Aside from Jesus saying things like "the father is greater then I" at John 14:28 and " I seek to do not my will, but my Fathers will" John 5:30 and Nobody is good but the father" Luke 18:19
The bible makes it clear that only if Jesus is God's lesser son as it plainly says is there internal harmony.Also Jesus is, like a good son, in subjection to his father.
Read 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 15:28. Again not God, but lesser than God!

Paul said Jesus would never think of making himself equal to God! Read Philippians 2:5-9 and see that not only is Christ not equal to God but because he would never think of himself
that way, God (the superior life form) gave him an exalted position! I ask you, how can God give God a higher position then God for thinking not thinking he is equal to God? Which is how little that makes sense if you believe in the trinity!there are so many places that make it clear Jesus is God's son and a creation of God that listing them all would take a lot of room.
Still I am going to do just that. I am currently reading the Entire Greek scriptures (or what some refer to as "the new testament") and making notes of all the places that make it clear that Jesus is God's son and inferior, Already it is quite a list! I will post them all and if possible quote them all for ease, as soon as is possible!

So why has it become confusing for some? Why do well meaning people believe the bible teaches that Jesus is God when only a few scriptures can be made to lean that way by
forcing them versus hundreds that lean the other way with ease?

Again this has to do with the mixing of pagan teachings by the Catholic church into bible teaching!
How so?
Well first consider some things we already went over and let us see how other pagan teachings shed some very bright light on the trinity!

Easter, the cross, and Christmas have been proven to be all pagan and the bible condemns those things (If need be we can go into much greater detail if you want more knowledge
on this subject)

Easter is named after a pagan god, a quick google will tell you as much. Rabbits and eggs are pagan fertility symbols used in worship of false gods.

Christmas was called saturnalia, and was the pagan festival of the winter solstice! They worshiped the sun, had pine trees in their homes, decorated them, exchanged gifts, almost
everything we know Christmas as today.

The Catholic church under the guidance of Constantine ( a pagan!) sought to mix together religions to make everyone easier to control under one religion!

So they re-named saturnalia "Christmas" Called it Jesus birthday and voila, we have Christmas, a pagan celebration in disguise as Christian!

How are these things relevant?

Well Easter and Christmas are not the only ways that Constantine and the Catholic church perverted true teachings and mixed pagan beliefs into bible teachings!

They brought the triad gods of the pagans, and called it "The Trinity". Yet again mixing pagan teachings into bible teaching!

They elevated Mary to being above God! We all know that Mary was a simple Jewish woman as the bible says, but now look how many claim she is above God! they did this to match
the pagan mother goddess!
And on and on, we could keep going.

Do you see why they did this? This way pagans and "christians" could worship together, familiar gods and teachings all under one roof. How do you think the true God
viewed this perverting of his teachings?

So if indeed hundreds of scriptures make it clear that Jesus is God's son, and not God and only a few scriptures can be argued the other way, should you not go with a teaching that
makes the bible harmonious? As so many scriptures are false if Jesus is God! If you hold onto the pagan teaching of a triad God you are making so many scriptures make no sense to anyone! That alone without any other knowledge should make it plain Jesus is God's beloved son, as the bible says, and not God.

Read Matthew to Revelation and all the time doing so ask yourself, if you had never been taught by man one way or another, which makes any sense at all? When Jesus says he is
not equal to God, when Paul says he is not equal to God along with so many other scriptures we see the truth.
We can hold unto Catholic/pagan fusion beliefs. Will we though if we are honest hearted? Soon I will post all the scriptures that make it clear God and Jesus are 2 different people.

Even the Catholic church says the trinity makes no sense.If after I post all these what will those arguing to hold unto man's doctrines say?
We shall see.
Jesus taught us to search for the truth, not make the truth what we want.
The truth always harmonizes with the entire bible! We can see just from this, and there is much much more, but we can see form this that the trinity, a teaching from Egypt, babylon, and other pagan origins has no place among true Christians!

That the Catholic church, which sadly is truly guilty of perverting Christianity in exchange for power is the source of so much misinformation!
The Catholic church got the power it wanted, it killed those wanting just to read the bible for hundreds of years.
Why? So they could not discover the truth about the bible.

Many people died so we could have the bible today. Surely they will be rewarded! How sad though is we still follow those false teachings.
Remember, you worship was not in vain if you change once you see the truth!

Remember all those Jews in days past that were in the same situation we are now. Remember how many just could not let go of pagan teachings! We also read about the few that did.
Just like then, today most won't change and will allow their hearts to be unreceptive to the truth about God and his son.

Most back then were happy to remain in false religions. Remember how Jesus followers were called a "cult" by other religions because they did not go along with the popular false teachings.
If we shed those teachings, we can draw truly close to our heavenly father.

I am your servant. I have typed all this out despite the fact I type like 20 words a minute

I may have been able to learn the truth about many bible teachings, but I know I am not a better person.
Still I would do anything to help anyone learn the truth about the bible.

If we read revelation 21:3,4 we know that soon conditions will come to this earth that will make it like God intended. the entire planet a perfect paradise and nobody growing old or getting sick and many be brought back to life !
Loved ones seeing one another again! Animals in complete harmony according to Isaiah!

If we miss out on that because we found our religion was not the entire truth and were not willing to change, how horrible for us. We must not do that!
Chances are I would be able to teach you many thigns about the bible that you had not been able to put together and what joy when our minds are able to see the "puzzle" of the bible fit together perfectly! I hope even one fo you allows that to take place!

I am a sinful man. I am so joyful our creator has seen fit to show me the truth that s few are able to see.
For example, the truth about what happens when we die.

When we learn what the bible really says happens to our loved ones we are "set free" and our hearts swell just as Jesus foretold.
Yes it is nice to have our ears tickled maybe by religions view, but knowing the truth gives us confidence!

It makes us happier to learn that the bible teaches people will be brought back to life to live forever on earth with us! and soon! This is what we were created for after all! Satan has not been able to change God's original plans.

So yes while the bible mentions people going to heaven, it also mentions many more living on earth! Who goes to heaven? why? who lives on earth? why?
Why does God allow bad things to happen?
How do we know we are living in the last days?
What does God want us to do right now?

The bible has all these answers. False religions do not. Yes some inside false religions are wonderful people. Thus Gods is hoping so much they will learn the truth. He loves us so much,
So if you want help answering questions and drawing closer to your creator, I will use my knowledge of the bible to help you. Matthew 24:14 is taking place right now!

Agape....Charlie

WebersHome · Jun 8, 2015

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The vast majority of the current army of Watch Tower Society missionaries
have not been anointed as per 1John 2:26-27, nor do they ever expect to be
anointed; either in this life or the next. Therefore; I strongly caution against
accepting any interpretation of the Bible that Watch Tower Society
missionaries recommend because according to 1John 2:26-27, the non
anointed are susceptible to deception. They will pass their deception on to
you if you're not careful.

Also the vast majority of the Watch Tower Society's army of missionaries are
not Spirit-born as per John 3:3-8, nor do they ever expect to be Spirit-born:
either in this life or the next. Therefore, seeing as how the physical man
(a.k.a. the soulical man) is defined by John 3:6 as someone who has not
undergone the spirit birth about which Christ spoke at John 3:3-8, then
according to 1Cor 2:14, non spirit-born missionaries cannot help but reject
the Spirit's reasoning as absurd.

So then, what does that tell us about non spirit-born missionaries?

Well; for one it tells us that even if God's very spirit should come alongside a
non spirit-born missionary and attempt to guide the missionary into the
truth, the non spirit-born missionary would not listen.

And for another, it's telling us that if non spirit-born missionaries are
listening to the Watch Tower Society's theologians; then the Society's
theologians are not speaking by God's spirit because if they were, then non
spirit-born missionaries would brush off their theology as absurd.

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IvoryTusk · Jun 9, 2015

Webershome...With respect, your not making solid points. Let's take a look at the scriptures you mentioned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 according to several translations reads...

King James Bible
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.

International Standard Version
A person who isn't spiritual doesn't accept the things of God's Spirit, for they are nonsense to him. He can't understand them because they are spiritually evaluated.

New World Translation
But a physical man does not accept* the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually.15 However, the spiritual man examines all things,+ but he himself is not examined by any man.

SO WE CAN SEE...
All of these teach us that what you are applying to it cannot be held up. It simply means that Those living life based only on physical things are not able to see the value of spiritual matters.
Your saying that those not anointed with holy spirit are unable to accept God teachings is not taught here.
Also that would mean Able,Enoch,Abraham are all unable to accept spiritual things form God. This alone should teach you that you are misunderstanding based on your reasoning not God's. We must learn how to use the bible to interpret the bible!

Let's look at your other 2 scriptures...

1 John 2:26,27 reads....
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him (NASB)

Where is it written here that all God's servants must be spirit anointed or be susceptible to to deception? In fact you miss the obvious point that these very spirit anointed people were in fact susceptible and thus they were being warned and reminded!
Still you are applying too much from this scripture. We must learn how each scripture fits into the entire bible, not take each scripture and apply it as we see fit!

John 3:3-8 Reads...
In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again,*+ he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”+4 Nic·o·de′mus said to him: “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter into the womb of his mother a second time and be born, can he?” 5 Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water+ and spirit,+ he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. 6 What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed because I told you: You people must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit." (NWT)
SO WE SEE...
Here Jesus is saying you cannot enter into heaven unless you are "born again" by spirit.
Considering that Paul made it clear in Hebrews That those getting the heavenly calling were different then most of Gods servants like for example all those mentioned in the Hebrew scriptures (or old testament) of which he lists many...Why is it you are now saying everyone must be born again?
We need to adhere to the bibles teachings as a whole. Again not our desire our interpretation of it!
Note MAtthew 6:9,10 and Revelation 21:3,4 both indicate the Kingdom of God, while being in heaven, will rule over the earth soon!

So while you must be spirit anointed to enter heaven, no such rule exist for living under that kingdom here, along with Moses, Able, Joshua etc, who will be brought back to life and live in paradise described so well in the book of Isaiah!

If Paul makes plain Moses was not born again, that Abraham was not etc. Then why is it we must all be born again in your opinion?
The bible says humanity will live on earth forever not heaven. Though some would in fact go to heaven! The bible answers who will and why, but too many religions refuse understanding of this because they want their teaching of everyone going to heaven to stand. Much like those described in the scripture you cited at 1 Corinthians ! They base their decisions on imperfect physical reasoning rather then opening up to the bile and get correction! Like a truly spiritual person would.

I would be very happy to go over the bible with you and help you understand these points. the bible speaks clear for itself, and our opinions will not be the truth in the end.
If our understanding fits the entire bible then we can be confident.

So according to your belief, Satan was successful in ruining God's plan that humans live on earth forever in a paradise?
That now earth is an angel factory?

No this is not what the bible teaches, though you can be forgiven thinking that as that is what many religions teach.
The bible is deeper then any one man can understand,, but as we get our views corrected we grow closer and closer to our creator! How wonderful a thing that is!

This is a deep subject and I truly commend you for seeking deep understanding. I do not judge you, but I must have a clean conscience and help you understand the bible if it is your desire.
It would take some time though, as in order to really understand why some are spirit anointed you really need to learn much.

When we learn why Israel's kings were anointed with oil we learn what that foreshadowed and why. Again though this takes some time.
IF I were you I would seek to understand why you should not be unwilling to change when you come across truths that correct us.

If you want it to be true that all must be anointed with spirit and go to heaven you will miss out on understanding much of what the bible is promising us.

WebersHome · Jun 9, 2015

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†. John 20:28 . . In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”

The Watch Tower Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek
Scriptures translates a portion of that verse as "The God of me and the Lord
of me"

Many moons ago; I asked some Watch Tower Society missionaries to explain
to me why the Society translated theós with an upper case "G" in that verse
seeing as how in Watch Tower Society theology; only the one true god
should be referred to with capital letters. Well; they were too inexperienced
to explain and my question left them stumped.

The fact of the matter is: by the Society's own translation rules; its
translators had to use an upper case "G" because whenever theós is
modified by the Greek article ho, then the upper case is required.

Well; personally it matters little to me whether Jesus Christ is an upper case
god or a lower case god just so long as we can all agree that he's at least a
god. But curiosity compels me to make further inquiry.

If Jesus Christ was Thomas the apostle's god, why isn't he the Society's god?
I mean: if Thomas would speak to Jesus Christ and address him as "my god"
then why can't the Society speak to Jesus Christ and address him the very
same way? Isn't Jesus Christ their god too? If Jesus Christ was an apostle's
god, then shouldn't Jesus Christ be everybody's god?

Was Thomas out of line? Well if Thomas was out of line, then why didn't his
master correct him? I mean: addressing someone other than the one true
god as "my god" is a conduct that under normal circumstances would be
regarded as idolatry, and maybe even blaspheme. Those are some pretty
serious sins.

REBUTTAL: Addressing the resurrected Jesus, the apostle Thomas exclaimed:
"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28) This and other accounts were "written
down that [we] may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God." (Copied
and Pasted from Jehovah's Witnesses Questions And Answers)

RESPONSE: Well; therein is the rub isn't it? If Jesus Christ really and truly is
the one true god's son, then by simple biological rules, Jesus Christ is also
the same species as the one true god.

In other words: if the one true god were to reproduce-- which apparently He
did --then He would produce more of Himself just as Adam produced more of
himself when he reproduced and begot Cain; viz: in Adam's case; a human
begot a human; in God's case; the one true god begot a one true god.

This is an inescapable scientific principle. It's the way that the birds and the
bees work; and everybody past puberty knows it; except maybe the Watch
Tower Society. Apparently they're all late bloomers and still a little wet
behind the ears.

Thomas somehow knew that Christ was God's actual offspring. Exactly how
Thomas came about that information I don't know but I suspect that Christ
took his men into confidence on this issue privately sometime during his
ministry. Apparently Thomas was skeptical at first, and really, what Torah
trained Jew wouldn't be!

I close by saying that the gospel of John is wasted on people who fail to pick
up on Jesus Christ's unique relationship with the one true god. If they come
away from the gospel of John thinking that Jesus Christ is just another
nondescript son of God as per Psalm 82:6; then there is nothing more that
can be done to convince them otherwise. Sad to say; even Thomas the
apostle's response bounces off them like a sonar ping. Instead of listening to
Thomas, they bury him with mountains of sophistry and semantic double
speak and half truths to shut him up.

=======================================

WebersHome · Jun 10, 2015

-
The standard Christian understanding of Christ's resurrection is common
throughout the gospels; viz: Jesus Christ died as a physical human being
and he came back as a physical human being.

Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha) didn't believe in that kind of return to life.
He taught reincarnation; which is very different because it doesn't eo ipso
indicate people coming back as human beings, nor as even as themselves;
but rather, as rearranged karma; which means Buddhists could conceivably
come back as someone else, and even a different gender: or a sea urchin, or
a termite, or a fruit bat.

The Watchtower Society's resurrection theory is just as loopy as Siddhartha's.
According to its proprietary way of seeing things; Christ didn't physically rise
from the dead at all; and here's why.

In Watch Tower Society theology, an angel named Michael volunteered to
come to the earth to die for humanity's sins. But in order to do so; he had to
relinquish his angel existence to become a human being seeing as how in
Society theology it is impossible for someone to exist as a spirit being and a
human being simultaneously. Thus when Michael's so-called "life force" was
transferred to flesh and given the name Jesus; he became not only a
different species of life, but a whole other person too; viz: except for his so
called "life force" Michael the angel went completely out of existence.

But Michael's existence as a human being was only temporary. When God
"raised" Jesus from the dead, it was not Jesus who got raised from the dead;
it was Michael. Seeing as how Michael the angel had gone completely out of
existence when he became Jesus the human being; God had to re-create
Michael the angel from memory; in other words: in Society theology, there
has actually been two Michaels.

There is a really, really big hole in the Society's theology; and that's the
dead man's corpse. In order to confirm that Jesus stayed dead, the Society
is going to have produce his remains. A piece of evidence of that significance
can't be allowed to just slip through a crack unnoticed as if it makes no
difference

†. Acts 1:1-3 . .The first account, O Theophilus, I composed about all the
things Jesus started both to do and to teach, until the day that he was taken
up, after he had given commandment through holy spirit to the apostles
whom he chose. To these also by many positive proofs he showed himself
alive after he had suffered

Did the human Jesus really show himself alive by many positive proofs after
he had suffered? Not according to the Watch Tower Society. In their
theology, Michael the angel showed himself alive by means of a materialized
body that resembled the human Jesus in every way-- nail prints and spear
wound to boot --because the human Jesus had to stay dead in order for
Michael to regain his angel existence.

There are some seriously fatal flaws in that theory.

1• The New Testament never even one time, on any occasion, nor under any
circumstances, nor in any situation, either attests, alleges, alludes, or states
that an angel named Michael appeared in Christ's human form cloaked in a
materialized body.

2• Michael the angel never once identities himself as Michael the angel when
allegedly appearing in a materialized body.

3• Passing one's self off in the guise of a dead man is the lowest form of
identity theft imaginable. People do it all the time; and it's what I expect
from human beings, but that is not the kind of behavior I have a right to
expect from an arch angel.

4• A so-called materialized body is not a real person; it's an avatar.

5• Neither Paul, nor Peter, nor John, nor James, nor Jude, ever even one
single time in any of their writings correlate Jesus Christ with Michael the
angel: not once. You'd think that if Michael the angel was Jesus Christ, that
those men would have said so because that would be a really big deal.

OBJECTION: How can you totally side-step the fact that Jesus suddenly
appeared to the Apostles after they had locked a door? If the human Jesus
was raised in a real human body, how could he go through a locked door?

RESPONSE: There's just no excuse for an objection like that one. Have we
already forgotten how the human Christ walked on water, restored withered
limbs, cured blindness, healed serious diseases like leprosy, revived the
dead, controlled the weather, multiplied fish and bread, turned water into
wine, and levitated? What's one more miracle, more or less? Walking
through walls? Disappearing? How hard could either of those two feats really
be for a man with the powers of God at his disposal?

Too many people want Christianity to be a reasonable religion. It's not.
Christianity is a supernatural religion.

It perplexes me sometimes how it is that people can say they believe in
miracles but yet cannot believe that God can make a physical human body
pass through a closed and locked door. Well; if they can understand how
Daniel's three friends survived totally unscathed inside a superheated fiery
furnace, then they'll understand how a physical human body can pass
through a closed and locked door. It's just downright shameful that folk
daring to call themselves Jehovah's witnesses bear false witness about His
power over the laws of physics.

OBJECTION: Well; if Jehovah has enough power over the laws of physics to
pass a physical human body through closed and locked doors, then couldn't
He pass Michael through the door as a spirit and then materialize him on the
other side as a human in order to communicate with his friends?

RESPONSE: That would be acceptable if only there were some record of it in
the New Testament. But it is an irrefutable fact that the New Testament not
even one time, on any occasion, nor under any circumstances, nor in any
situation, either attests, alleges, alludes, or states that an angel named
Michael appeared to Christ's friends cloaked in a human avatar. That
doctrine doesn't come from the New Testament. It's a humanistic fantasy.

OBJECTION: Angels in the Old Testament appeared to men in materialized
bodies; for example the three men who visited Abraham in the 18th chapter
of Genesis.

RESPONSE: Beware of making the mistake of assuming that the appearance
of angels in human form in the Old Testament validates the Society's theory
that one named Michael did the very same thing in the New.

It is an irrefutable fact that the New Testament never even one time, on any
occasion, nor under any circumstances, nor in any situation, either attests,
alleges, alludes, or states that an angel named Michael appeared to Christ's
friends cloaked in a human avatar. That doctrine doesn't come from the New
Testament. It's a humanistic fantasy.

It's commonly assumed that the two men identified as angels who showed up
at the gate of Sodom were two of the men who visited Abraham. But even so; the
Old Testament word for "angel" is mal'ak (mal-awk') which should never be
taken to eo ipso indicate celestial beings. The word simply means a dispatched
deputy; viz: a messenger; either human or celestial. For example:

†. Gen 32:3-4 . . Then Jacob sent messengers ahead of him to Esau his
brother to the land of Seir, the field of Edom, and he commanded them,
saying: "yada, yada, yada"

The Hebrew word for the ordinary human messengers in that verse is
mal'ak. Here's another example:

†. Gen 32:6 . . In time the messengers returned to Jacob, saying: "yada,
yada, yada".

Here's another example where mal'ak indicates ordinary human beings
rather than celestial beings.

†. Num 20:14 . . Subsequently Moses sent messengers from Kadesh to the
king of Edom: "This is what your brother Israel has said: "yada, yada, yada."

And another:

†. Gen 6:17 . . Only Rahab the prostitute may keep on living, she and all
who are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers whom we
sent out.

There are dozens of examples in the Old Testament where the word mal'ak
indicates ordinary human beings instead of celestial beings. Bottom line is:
the 18th and 19th chapters of Genesis are useless for confirming beyond a
shadow of doubt that an angel named Michael appeared to Christ's friends
cloaked in a materialized human body.

====================================

WebersHome · Jun 11, 2015

-
The Watch Tower Society is such a hypocrite. It flaps its lips about love;
while in its heart longing for the day when every non Jehovah's Witness on
earth is slain and they have the whole globe to themselves.

Let's say that 06/11/2015 @ 02:30 pm EST was that day. Well; the
estimated world population to date is something lke 7,249,190,600 people,
while the world's number of Jehovah's Witnesses is estimated at 8,200,000.
That means if the slaughter began now, something like 7,240,990,600
people would lose their lives in order to make the world a safer place for the
Watch Tower Society.

That's 7.2 billion people, all slain for the sake of Charles Taze Russell and
Joseph Franklin Rutherford; in contrast to the mere 76 who lost their lives
because of David Koresh, and the 913 because of Jim Jones.

=========================================

Bowman · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Jehovah's Witness deny the important doctrines of christianty and jesus

IvoryTusk said:

The only 'perversion' is in incorrect interpretation.

I don't worship the cross.

I worship The Triune Creator - just as He has commanded of me.

Bowman · Jun 12, 2015

Re: Jehovah's Witness deny the important doctrines of christianty and jesus

IvoryTusk said:

NWL does not celebrate Christmas or Easter because He rejects Jesus' deity!!!

Pure and simple.

Your attempting to make it pagan emanates from one who surfs the internet too much and cannot discern truth from fiction.

Surf's up, dude...

WebersHome · Jun 12, 2015

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†. John 2:19-22 . . Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three
days. Therefore the Jews said: This temple was built in forty-six years, and
will you raise it up in three days?

. . . But he was talking about the temple of his body. When, though, he was
raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that he used to say
this; and they believed the Scripture and the saying that Jesus said.

Now I should think that anybody with even a sixth grader's level of reading
comprehension would easily see that Christ was speaking of a physical
resurrection for himself rather than a spirit resurrection.

Watchtower Society missionaries have informed me that, instead of restoring
Jesus Christ's corpse to life, God dismantled it into a zillion teensy little
microscopic pieces and scattered them to the four winds. However, even if
the missionaries' affirmation was actually stated in the Bible record; Christ's
remains wouldn't have remained in a microscopic condition for longer than
three days or people would have good reason to believe he told a big
whopper at John 2:19-22 --not just about that; but about other things he
said too.

The Society's resurrection doctrine perpetuates a version of the lie that
guards were bribed to say Jesus Christ's corpse was stolen away so that his
disciples could claim a resurrection took place when none had; except the
Society's version says it was Yhvh who stole Christ's corpse instead of his
disciples; insinuating that God is a grave robber.

According to Heb 6:1-2, resurrection is an elementary subject; in other
words: it's for beginners. Well; think about it. If the Watchtower Society's
resurrection doctrine is faulty; just think how much more faulty its advanced
doctrines must be.

==========================================

Bowman · Jun 12, 2015

IvoryTusk said:

Here is a little bit of a post I am about to make...I thought this would help those trying to understand the bible's view on the "trinity" Without nearly as much information to make it simpler. For much more information read my next post or feel free to e mail me for much more information still! ([email protected])

Here is a portion of my post....

Aside from Jesus saying things like "the father is greater then I" at John 14:28 and " I seek to do not
my will, but my Fathers will" John 5:30 and Nobody is good but the father" Luke 18:19 The bible makes it
clear from hundreds of scriptures that only if Jesus is God's lesser son as it plainly says can there be internal harmony.

Also Jesus is, like a good son, in subjection to his father. Read 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 15:28. Again not
God, but lesser than God!

Paul said Jesus would never think of making himself equal to God! Read Philippians 2:5-9 and see that not
only is Christ not equal to God but he would NEVER consider himself equal to God! because he would never think of himself that way, God (the superior life
form) gave him an exalted position! I ask you, how can God give God a higher position then God for
not thinking he is equal to God? Which is how little that makes sense if you believe in the trinity!

Like so many scriptures, it only makes sense if Jesus is God's son and not himself God.
I will soon as possible list all of the scriptures that make it clear that Jesus is God's created son...It will be a VERY long list.
Then we will compare it to the list ( it will not be a real list, but only 2 scriptures, feel free to add any others for everyone to see) used by those believing in the trinity. An honest heart will lead us to see the truth and worship God in truth according to the bible, not according to a pagan doctrine!

We will see that if Jesus is God's beloved son, every scripture makes sense, or that if he is God hundreds of scriptures make no sense at all!

You don't even know what The Trinity is....how then can you supposedly thwart it...?

Start by defining what you think it is, before attacking it.

Bowman · Jun 12, 2015

IvoryTusk said:

My vote is that you cannot even 'defend' your Trinity-denial with your very first scriptural example...

tanach · Jun 13, 2015

Jehovah Witnesses need to be prayed for. Most if not all are sincere about their beliefs but are trapped within a cult.
They use a Bible (New World Translation), that is false in that it promotes Watchtower Doctrines. A classic example is
found in John where it states that the Word was A god rather than just God. They deny the deity of Christ.

WebersHome · Jun 13, 2015

-

tanach said:

That issue was addressed in post #23. Isn't there something you'd like to
say about the Watch Tower Society that hasn't been said already? This
thread is going to get bogged down in redundancy right quick if nobody
has anything new to add.

============================

WebersHome · Jun 14, 2015

-
The Watch Tower Society insists that human life is entirely physical; viz;
people cease to exist when their bodies expire. The Society substantiates its
doctrine with some things that Solomon wrote in the book of Ecclesiastes.

Traditional Christianity insists that human life is more than physical; viz:
people continue to exist beyond the demise of their bodies. Traditional
Christianity substantiates its doctrine with some things that Jesus Christ
spoke in the New Testament.

Solomon was a very wise man and the brightest intellectual of his day. But
Christ claimed that his wisdom is superior to Solomon's.

†. Luke 11:31 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment
with the men of this generation and will condemn them; because she came
from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look!
Something more than Solomon is here.

Solomon's understanding was limited, but Christ's is exceedingly vast.

†. Col 2:3 . . In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Traditional Christianity casts its vote for Christ primarily because it believes
that no man could possibly know more about the afterlife than he; and also
because it is God's edict that people listen to His son.

†. Matt 17:5 . . While Peter was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud
overshadowed them; and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying: This is My
beloved son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to him.

No doubt Solomon was inspired to put his world view in writing; but Christ
was more than inspired to say the things he spoke; the things he spoke
came directly from God.

†. John 3:34-35 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words; for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit.

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 8:28 . . I speak these things as the Father taught me.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

In other words; people who take sides with Solomon against Jesus Christ
have taken sides against God; and the result of their choice is disastrous to
say the least.

†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in His son is not condemned, but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already

†. John 3:36 . . He that disbelieves the Son shall not see life; but the wrath
of God abides on him.

===========================================

WebersHome · Jun 15, 2015

-
†. 2Tim 3:16 . . All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching,
for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness

As every competent Bible student knows: though all scripture is inspired by
God, not all scripture is true. For example:

"At this the serpent said to the woman: You positively will not die." (Gen
3:4)

The serpent's statement is on record due to the inspiration of God: but the
serpent's statement is false.

Here's another:

"But as for eating of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden,
God has said: You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it that you
do not die." (Gen 3:3)

Though Eve's statement is in the record due to the inspiration of God, her
statement is not entirely true. He didn't say they must not touch the fruit.

Ecclesiastes is in the record due to the inspiration of God: and though it
contains many truisms, not all that it contains is true. Solomon (if that's who
actually wrote it) didn't record his observations from the perspective of a
spiritual man who's privy to special knowledge beyond the scope of empirical
evidence: but rather, he recorded his observations from the perspective of a
man under the sun: viz: a worldly intellectual whose perception of reality is
moderated by what he can see going on around him in the physical rather
than what he cannot see going on around him in the non-physical: and
that's pretty much why it's so easy to find material in Ecclesiastes contrary
to the doctrines of traditional Christianity.

Ecclesiastes is popular with agnostics and atheists because it agrees, to a
very large extent, with their own secular philosophies: viz: Solomon's
remarks are primarily an evaluation of life on earth as seen from the earth
rather than an evaluation of life on earth as seen from heaven.

Solomon spoke of death; but there's no textual evidence in the book of
Ecclesiastes indicating that he had ever seen beyond death for himself to
know what he was talking about. In contrast, there is an abundance of
textual evidence indicating that Jesus Christ not only spoke of death, but he
had seen beyond death for himself to know what he was talking about. (e.g.
John 3:13, John 3:31-32, John 6:33, John 6:38, and 1John 1:1-3)

So in my estimation, Christ's eye-witness reports carry far more weight than
Solomon's opinions. Solomon's perspective was pretty much limited to what
he could see for himself; while the traditional Christian perspective is
enhanced by things that Christ can see for himself.

Q: So then, in what way is Ecclesiastes beneficial for teaching, for reproving,
for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness?

A: It's very valuable for showing that life sans religion is meaningless.
Humankind needs to believe in something higher than itself just to make
sense of why people exist at all.

Nobel Prize winner, author of several best-selling books, and recipient of at
least a dozen honorary degrees; physicist Steven Weinberg (who views
religion as an enemy of science), in his book "The First Three Minutes"
wrote: The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it seems
pointless. But if there is no solace in the fruits of our research, there is at
least some consolation in the research itself . . . the effort to understand the
universe is one of the very few things that lifts human life a little above the
level of a farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy.

Well of course Mr. Weinberg feels that way. How else could a thinking man
feel when he believes in nothing higher than himself?

=========================================

WebersHome · Jun 17, 2015

-
Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though
untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only
untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story
about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a
boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the
other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable. Now; if he had told
one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good
reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are
like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never
fantasy because none of them are so far removed from normal reality that
there is no possible chance of it ever being true.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life
man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent
religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God
(Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among
normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something
untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's
buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.

†. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
as the Father taught me.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates
that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous
seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

FYI: Luke 16:27 reveals that people in the rich man's situation suffer
anxiety worrying about their relatives.

Can you just imagine the shock, the horror, and the terror that kicks
deceased Jehovah's Witnesses in the guts when they find themselves in the
same situation? Well; that's all they need to instantly realize that traditional
Christianity has been right all along and the Watch Tower Society is a Judas
goat.

But that's not the worst of it. Just think of all the Jehovah's Witness parents
who have actually trained their own children to follow mom and dad down
there. How does one bear the torment of something like that on their
conscience?

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jewhovas witness deny the important doctrines of christianty and jesus

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