trinity, twoness, oneness

[endtimes]

This is NOT another one of those "trinity" threads. Although I have not read any of those other ones, I assume all arguments have already been made time and again. So, what sets this one apart? I'm not trying to disprove the "trinity" although it does not exist in scriptures, because at best we find nothing "more" than a twoness. I don't believe in twoness either, but only the ONE God that became flesh so as to shed His blood for us...

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:


It is indoctrination that moves us to push the very FEW scriptures that imply a "trinity", while completely and ignorantly ignoring the mountain of scriptures that imply a "twoness". And, once conceding to only a twoness which only differentiates spirit and flesh, we then are in better position to see the "oneness" that God is spirit and spirit became flesh.


We also know by scripture that the Holy Spirit over-shadowed Mary and so it is the Holy Spirit that is Jesus daddy. However, when Jesus spoke of His father we all know He spoke of Father (Yahweh) being His daddy. Either Jesus did not know who His daddy was or Yahweh and the Holy Spirit are one in the same person, yes Jesus knew who His daddy was and His daddy is the Father (Yahweh - Jehovah)...

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.



Centuries BEFORE Christ, Isaiah prophesied in Isaiah 7:14, "therefore the LORD HIMSELF shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

We learn in Matthew 1:23 that Emmanuel means "God with us".



Isaiah 9:6 foretold, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his NAME shall be called Wonderful, counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."


Throughout the Old Testament God is also called the Lord. Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly tells us ... "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:" Therefore, compare the following references:

The Lord God is the Creator. Isaiah 42:5.
The Lord Jesus is the Creator. John 1:3, 10.

The Lord God said, "I am He." Isaiah 43:10.
The Lord Jesus said, "I am He." John 8:24.

The Lord God is the only Saviour. Isaiah 43:10, 11.
The Lord Jesus is the Saviour. Titus 1:4.

The Lord God shall reign forever. Psalms. 146:10.
The Lord Jesus reign forever. Luke 1 :33.

The Lord God is the King of Israel. Isaiah 43:15.
The Lord Jesus is the King of Israel. Matt. 27:37.

The Lord God is the First and the Last. Isaiah 44:6.
The Lord Jesus is the First and the Last. Revelation 1:8.

The Lord God is Almighty. Genesis 17:1.
The Lord Jesus is Almighty. Revelation 1:8.


Indoctrination tells us to believe in a trinity but common sense and scripture tells us that only a very few scriptures imply a trinity. The mountain of scriptures imply a twoness and the twoness only difference is spirit and flesh.

Each epistle starts with a greeting in the name of "Father" and "Son" but no mention of any 3rd person. Each epistle begins like this...

1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Philippians 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2-3 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,


There was no mention of any 3rd person because the apostles knew that Father IS the Holy Spirit...

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

The Holy Spirit (Father - Yahweh - Jehovah) overshadowed Mary and she conceived a seed. God, being omnipresent inhabited that seed and simultaneously remained in heaven. Mary gives birth and we now have SPIRIT BECOME FLESH.



God bless!

 

[Jeff_56]

well, that wasn't very clear....

but, remember Daddy is holy. and Daddy is Spirit.

maybe that helps a few people.

most people here and in the whole world, it won't matter one iota.....

 

[didymos]

well, that wasn't very clear....

Well maybe this is.


[video=youtube;aU4pyiB-kq0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU4pyiB-kq0[/video]

 

[Saint77]

Amen for the truth bro endtime i totally understand..God bless you may the Lord Jesus be with you. Amen.

 

[valiant]

This is NOT another one of those "trinity" threads. Although I have not read any of those other ones, I assume all arguments have already been made time and again. So, what sets this one apart? I'm not trying to disprove the "trinity" although it does not exist in scriptures, because at best we find nothing "more" than a twoness. I don't believe in twoness either, but only the ONE God that became flesh so as to shed His blood for us...

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:


It is indoctrination that moves us to push the very FEW scriptures that imply a "trinity", while completely and ignorantly ignoring the mountain of scriptures that imply a "twoness". And, once conceding to only a twoness which only differentiates spirit and flesh, we then are in better position to see the "oneness" that God is spirit and spirit became flesh.


We also know by scripture that the Holy Spirit over-shadowed Mary and so it is the Holy Spirit that is Jesus daddy. However, when Jesus spoke of His father we all know He spoke of Father (Yahweh) being His daddy. Either Jesus did not know who His daddy was or Yahweh and the Holy Spirit are one in the same person, yes Jesus knew who His daddy was and His daddy is the Father (Yahweh - Jehovah)...

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.



Centuries BEFORE Christ, Isaiah prophesied in Isaiah 7:14, "therefore the LORD HIMSELF shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

We learn in Matthew 1:23 that Emmanuel means "God with us".



Isaiah 9:6 foretold, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his NAME shall be called Wonderful, counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."


Throughout the Old Testament God is also called the Lord. Deuteronomy 6:4 clearly tells us ... "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:" Therefore, compare the following references:

The Lord God is the Creator. Isaiah 42:5.
The Lord Jesus is the Creator. John 1:3, 10.

The Lord God said, "I am He." Isaiah 43:10.
The Lord Jesus said, "I am He." John 8:24.

The Lord God is the only Saviour. Isaiah 43:10, 11.
The Lord Jesus is the Saviour. Titus 1:4.

The Lord God shall reign forever. Psalms. 146:10.
The Lord Jesus reign forever. Luke 1 :33.

The Lord God is the King of Israel. Isaiah 43:15.
The Lord Jesus is the King of Israel. Matt. 27:37.

The Lord God is the First and the Last. Isaiah 44:6.
The Lord Jesus is the First and the Last. Revelation 1:8.

The Lord God is Almighty. Genesis 17:1.
The Lord Jesus is Almighty. Revelation 1:8.


Indoctrination tells us to believe in a trinity but common sense and scripture tells us that only a very few scriptures imply a trinity. The mountain of scriptures imply a twoness and the twoness only difference is spirit and flesh.

Each epistle starts with a greeting in the name of "Father" and "Son" but no mention of any 3rd person. Each epistle begins like this...

1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Philippians 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2-3 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,


There was no mention of any 3rd person because the apostles knew that Father IS the Holy Spirit...

Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

The Holy Spirit (Father - Yahweh - Jehovah) overshadowed Mary and she conceived a seed. God, being omnipresent inhabited that seed and simultaneously remained in heaven. Mary gives birth and we now have SPIRIT BECOME FLESH.



God bless!

You cannot dismiss 'a few Scriptures' just to suit yourself. You are suggesting gross heresy.

Jesus said we had to baptise in 'the NAME of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit' (Matt 28.19). They were three but they had ONE NAME (YHWH). The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son. And the Spirit is different from them both. And yet they share one NAME.

Jesus told us that He would send the Holy Spirit, 'another (Paraclete)', another besides the Son, to dwell within us. He would proceed from the Father and the Son. But the FATHER AND THE SON would also come and dwell within us. The threeness is made clear (John 14.15-22).

At Jesus' baptism the Father sent the Spirit whilst Himself speaking from Heaven, and the Holy Spirit descended on the Son. Furthermore the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. He did not send Himself. He ruled in the Heavens whilst the Son was on earth as a human being.

But the Father is NOT Jesus' daddy. The relationships are far more profound than that. The Son is co-existent with the Father. Both are eternal. The Son did not come from the Father in the way in which we come from our fathers who precede us. The term Son is in order to indicate that He is of the same nature and being as the Father, whilst being separate in persona. The Father did not precede the Son. Both existed eternally.

The letters spoke of 'from God our Father and the LORD Jesus Christ' because Paul saw the Spirit as in the church, God continually with us.

 

[flob]

Ooodles of Scriptures describe Trinity. Trinity, plurality, is throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. It's not too difficult in that 'tri' means 3. For example, if you can count, you can see that Father + Son + Spirit = 3.
But They are also 1. For there is only 1 God. Hence God is 3/1 or 3 in 1. That is simply the word Triune.
This is.........both fact, from the fact which is Scripture........and it is also mystery. In that it is beyond human mental comprehension. God is not subject to or dependent on our mental grasp. God is not the tree of knowledge, but Christ is the tree of life. I love to get into the facts of Scripture, that is, get into Scripture in a worshipful way. And let the word get into me.

 

[Elin]

I'm not trying to disprove the "trinity" although it does not exist in scriptures,

Three divine persons clearly exist in the new covenant word of God.

because at best we find nothing "more" than a twoness.
I don't believe in twoness either, but only the ONE God that became flesh so as to shed His blood for us...

Then you don't believe the new covenant word of God.

It is indoctrination that moves us to push the very FEW scriptures that imply a "trinity",

So how many times must Scripture state it before it is true?

while completely and ignorantly ignoring the mountain of scriptures that imply a "twoness".

Sriptural truth is not determined by how many times it is stated.

And, once conceding to only a twoness which only differentiates spirit and flesh, we then are in better position to see the"oneness" that God is spirit and spirit became flesh.

Believers are not at liberty to ignore any divine revelation.

This translates: once conceding to ignoring Scripture, we are in a better position to see my man-made doctrine.

Pure absurdity!

 

[michael56]

Your post shows a true heart for God. At the end of the day we are all christians two or one is for the logical mind of man, but the holy spirit makes us one in Christ. God bless

 

[endtimes]

You cannot dismiss 'a few Scriptures' just to suit yourself. You are suggesting gross heresy.

Jesus said we had to baptise in 'the NAME of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit' (Matt 28.19). They were three but they had ONE NAME (YHWH). The Son is not the Father, and the Father is not the Son. And the Spirit is different from them both. And yet they share one NAME.

Jesus told us that He would send the Holy Spirit, 'another (Paraclete)', another besides the Son, to dwell within us. He would proceed from the Father and the Son. But the FATHER AND THE SON would also come and dwell within us. The threeness is made clear (John 14.15-22).

At Jesus' baptism the Father sent the Spirit whilst Himself speaking from Heaven, and the Holy Spirit descended on the Son. Furthermore the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. He did not send Himself. He ruled in the Heavens whilst the Son was on earth as a human being.

But the Father is NOT Jesus' daddy. The relationships are far more profound than that. The Son is co-existent with the Father. Both are eternal. The Son did not come from the Father in the way in which we come from our fathers who precede us. The term Son is in order to indicate that He is of the same nature and being as the Father, whilst being separate in persona. The Father did not precede the Son. Both existed eternally.

The letters spoke of 'from God our Father and the LORD Jesus Christ' because Paul saw the Spirit as in the church, God continually with us.

In Matthew 28:19 We see that Jesus was telling them what to do, NOT what to say. Unfortunately, today we have many indoctrinated folks repeating Jesus command.

Jesus is telling them what to do, not what to repeat verbatim. If you told your son to go to the store and buy groceries, and he says to the clerk "I want to buy groceries", he is only repeating the command, and not fulfilling the command.

We will not find anywhere in the Bible where someone is baptize in the name of "Father, Son, Holy Ghost"

Matthew 28:19 is a command, NOT an actual baptism taking place.

The apostles went forth and fulfilled the command and baptized in Jesus name.


God bless!

 

[valiant]

In Matthew 28:19 We see that Jesus was telling them what to do, NOT what to say. Unfortunately, today we have many indoctrinated folks repeating Jesus command.

Jesus is telling them what to do, not what to repeat verbatim. If you told your son to go to the store and buy groceries, and he says to the clerk "I want to buy groceries", he is only repeating the command, and not fulfilling the command.

We will not find anywhere in the Bible where someone is baptize in the name of "Father, Son, Holy Ghost"

Matthew 28:19 is a command, NOT an actual baptism taking place.

The apostles went forth and fulfilled the command and baptized in Jesus name.


God bless!

The words were Jesus' words. We do not know what words were actually used in baptism but we DO KNOW the words Jesus used about baptism. AND HE SAID it was in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If you are a fool you can ignore Him. You can even tell Him He was wrong. But you cannot avoid the fact that this was His revelation of God. One name, three personae. The Father is not the Son , and neither of them are the Holy Spirit. Thus there is an undeniable threeness in the Godhead. And it cannot be avoided by specious arguments.

Sadly you clearly do not know the fullness of the Godhead. Thus the God Whom you refer to is a false God. You know neither the Father nor the Son.

 

[flob]

In Matthew 28:19 We see that Jesus was telling them what to do, NOT what to say. Unfortunately, today we have many indoctrinated folks repeating Jesus command.
Jesus is telling them what to do, not what to repeat verbatim. If you told your son to go to the store and buy groceries, and he says to the clerk "I want to buy groceries", he is only repeating the command, and not fulfilling the command.
We will not find anywhere in the Bible where someone is baptize in the name of "Father, Son, Holy Ghost"
Matthew 28:19 is a command, NOT an actual baptism taking place.
The apostles went forth and fulfilled the command and baptized in Jesus name.

So what?
So therefore..............it's Wrong somehow for your son to say to the clerk 'I want to buy groceries'?
If you're saying that Jesus Christ humanly (and divinely) embodies the Triune God, Colossians 2:9, John 10:38, you're correct.
If you're saying, that Father, Son, and Spirit are mere names, mere guises for one Actor, you're both incorrect, and heretically incorrect. As in: that's a serious misrepresentation of God. Even to the point of inventing a false god. As the poster above says.

we DO KNOW the words Jesus used about baptism. AND HE SAID it was in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...you cannot avoid the fact that this was His revelation of God. One name, three personae. The Father is not the Son , and neither of them are the Holy Spirit. Thus there is an undeniable threeness in the Godhead. And it cannot be avoided by specious arguments.

The problem this poster appears to have is that he is not completely careful. I say this humbly which I hope is the way he also receives it, so as not to become blinded by emotion. Valiant makes the excellent point that Mt 28:19 is the Savior's very words about baptism. "...the words Jesus...SAID...His revelation of God." Amen. Matching all of the prophets' and apostles' revelation of God. God's revelation of God.
And yet then Valiant himself uses a phrase which, no matter how well-intentioned, isn't Scriptural diction: "The Father is not the Son, and neither of them are the Holy Spirit."

It is true that in the way of the heresy of Modalism, the Father is not the Son, and neither are the Holy Spirit. But, however,...............the Scripture and apostles and Lord are not afraid of Modalism. Just as they are not "afraid" of it's heretical "inverses," Arianism, or Tritheism.

In the way of coinherence, and mingling, and sharing, the unbreakable words the Holy Scripture does use are:
"The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is..." 2 Corinthians 3:17.
"The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit" 1 Corinthians 15:45.
"A child is born to us, a son is given to us...and His name will be called...Eternal Father..." Isaiah 9:6.

Are these Modalism? Of course not. Were Isaiah and Paul Modalists? Of course not.
Can Modalists 'use' it? Sure... All falsehoods and heretics attempt to use Scripture.
Does that mean I should shirk from Paul's and Isaiah's particular expressions, or prefer to use a phrase involving the word "is" which directly contrasts with Paul's........or that my formulation or anyone's or any creed's explanation of a truth is an improvement upon the Bible's terminology? No.

 

[atwhatcost]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the trinity.

 

[crossnote]

I thought we had this debate in the 4th century.

 

[Tintin]

Everything you ever wanted to know about the trinity.

...has already been discussed on CC ad nauseam.

 

[atwhatcost]

...has already been discussed at CC ad nauseam.

Then cool. No need to discuss it again. lol

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE:

This is NOT another one of those "trinity" threads. Although I have not read any of those other ones, I assume all arguments have already been made time and again. So, what sets this one apart? I'm not trying to disprove the "trinity" although it does not exist in scriptures, because at best we find nothing "more" than a twoness. I don't believe in twoness either, but only the ONE God that became flesh so as to shed His blood for us...

END QUOTATON........


Please say I am not the ONLY ONE who sees the humor of this statement? Please? Especially since he first posted this in 2013.

 

[psychomom]

Please say I am not the ONLY ONE who sees the humor of this statement? Please? Especially since he first posted this in 2013.

you're not alone.

i see he joined in 2013, but.... i'm not the smartest sheep in the flock.

 

[psychomom]

I thought we had this debate in the 4th century.

refresh my memory...what were you wearing?