US police kill more than two people a day, report suggests

[Viligant_Warrior]

Thank God for that !

Whatever the reasons, the bottom line is that my chances of becoming a victim of homicide are two-and-a-half times greater in the Grand Ole USA.

Actually, it was almost exactly twice as likely in 2013, the last full year of statistics for both countries, with the U.S. at 3.75 and Australia at 1.86. And again, over half the 11,390 murders (6,309) in the U.S. were black-on-black crimes, with three-quarters of the crimes involving people known to one another. The black homicide rate in the U.S. is worse even than third-world countries, at 17.5 per 100,000.

The issue is not guns. The issue is people, their culture, their lack of education, their lack of male role models, their lack of good parenting. We've lost the last two generations of black Americans youth to drugs, gangs, and violence, and it has nothing to do with guns. Money doesn't solve that problem.

Inner-city schools in the U.S. are nothing more than "manufacturing facilities" and they fail miserably in their production because the educators are more concerned about keeping their jobs and keeping their budgets than they are about actually teaching.

Welfare doesn't parent. Drugs lead to death, not riches. Guns are a side factor in the drug culture, but they still aren't the problem. Love, family units, God, and men who are willing to stand in the gap will solve these problems. You can't buy them with money.

 

[Pumicestone]

Actually, it was almost exactly twice as likely in 2013, the last full year of statistics for both countries, with the U.S. at 3.75

No worries Warrior. You fight it out with AgeofKnowledge. Let me know if you can get your stats to agree - then we might have a basis to delve further .....

USA's population as of 2013: 316,497,531
Actual number of homicides for 2013: 14,196
14,196 divided by 316,497,531 = 4.48

United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) 2013 Global Study on Homicide (10.3 mb download! [skip to page 22]).

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

No worries Warrior. You fight it out with AgeofKnowledge. Let me know if you can get your stats to agree - then we might have a basis to delve further .....

Interesting. You want to clamor about numbers. If you were to actually have looked up the numbers themselves, as posted by both of us, you would see that AofK's numbers deal with all violent deaths, including vehicular manslaughter involving drunk driving, whereas the numbers I posted are limited to deliberate, violent assaults resulting in death.

You think this calls into question our refutation of your statements but it does not, particularly mine, for you have no response to the socioeconomic issues that can only be addressed spiritually. But then, that's not surprising, coming from you, is it?

 

[Pumicestone]

Getting back to the actual topic of this thread though,

Killed By Police - 2014 (1104) lists some 1,100 "innocent until proven guilty" folk killed by U.S. police in 2014.
Actually about three every day - not two as stated in the thread title.



In 2013, the Australian Institute of Criminology released a report detailing fatal police shootings between 1989 and 2011. In that period, police fatally shot 105 people.
http://theconversation.com/shoot-to-kill-the-use-of-lethal-force-by-police-in-australia-34578

OK, I acknowledge that the American figure is for 2014 and the Australian statistics are for 1989-2011. (22 years)
Most recent I could find with limited time - but I doubt if the incidence has changed much.

So it seems we're looking at about 5 per year in Aus and 1100 per year in the U.S.
But your population is only about 15 times ours.
So unless something is drastically wrong, your rate should be some 15 X 5=75.

Not 1100 !



Nothing to do with the whole gun culture though. Course not.

 

[Pumicestone]

... you have no response to the socioeconomic issues that can only be addressed spiritually.

Dead right. A totally different issue on which I have not commented.
The causes for this imbalance of violence in the USA compared to civilized countries can only ever be addressed if and when Americans acknowledge that there is an imbalance.
And that is where, here, we seem to see a fair bit of 'denial'.

Frankly, I suspect that it will never improve - quite the reverse - because attitudes are too deeply ingrained - and passed on.
Nor do I believe that there is any "spiritual" solution.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Nor do I believe that there is any "spiritual" solution.

That pretty much disqualifies you from the discussion, since everything is a spiritual issue with a spiritual solution. It's a Christian chat forum. With that attitude, the question is, why do you come here? What are you looking for?

If it is Jesus, you will find Him, but you must stop resisting Him. If not, your membership here is rather pointless.

 

[Pumicestone]

As a life-long 'seeker-after-truth' should I not come to a Christian site ?

I made a "Decision for Christ" at the tender age of 13 - and was convinced I was 'called' to the ministry.
I studied, read, witnessed ('till my school-friends thought I was nuts), prayed - utterly steeped in the Word and my local Baptist church.

Without doubt the happiest years of my life - 'casting all your cares upon him because he careth for you'.
Life was so simple - so crystal clear.

But, by the time I was twenty, the doubts were flooding in.
More reading, more study, more lectures, more exposure to alternate opinions, together with my life-experiences, convinced me I had backed the wrong horse.
I cannot choose to believe. Things must make sense.

But I'd like to believe and perhaps my presence here is part of that forlorn hope ?
Be assured, I will go if I am unwelcome.

It is certainly not my wish to "un-convert" others - even if I could.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

As a life-long 'seeker-after-truth' should I not come to a Christian site ?

If you are indeed seeking Christ, then saying "there is no spiritual solution" negates any chance you will find Him.

I made a "Decision for Christ" at the tender age of 13 - and was convinced I was 'called' to the ministry.
I studied, read, witnessed ('till my school-friends thought I was nuts), prayed - utterly steeped in the Word and my local Baptist church.

Without doubt the happiest years of my life - 'casting all your cares upon him because he careth for you'.
Life was so simple - so crystal clear.

But, by the time I was twenty, the doubts were flooding in.
More reading, more study, more lectures, more exposure to alternate opinions, together with my life-experiences, convinced me I had backed the wrong horse.
I cannot choose to believe. Things must make sense.

But I'd like to believe and perhaps my presence here is part of that forlorn hope ?
Be assured, I will go if I am unwelcome.

It is certainly not my wish to "un-convert" others - even if I could.

With these words, you have shown yourself in a new light, and I apologize for any verbal punishment I've given you. Are you aware you went through a "desert experience" that many people at the age of 20 or so go through? Somehow, you have not found your way back into the light. I understand things "having to make sense," but by the same token, the Gospel makes more sense than anything the world has to offer. If I can be of any help, please let me know. My PMs are open.

Too often we treat unbelievers or "desert walkers" with contempt. I think it is the anonymity of the Internet that allows us to do so as easily as we do, with impunity. I know I've tended to do so with you. Let me make amends and try to help you in any way you see fit. God bless.

 

[Pumicestone]

I thank you for your kind words Vig - and I do not for one second doubt your sincerity.
However, I suspect we may be too far apart to accomplish much.

For example, when I say "As a life-long 'seeker-after-truth' "
you interpret that as
" If you are indeed seeking Christ ... ".

To me, that is not necessarily the same thing.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

I thank you for your kind words Vig - and I do not for one second doubt your sincerity.
However, I suspect we may be too far apart to accomplish much.

For example, when I say "As a life-long 'seeker-after-truth' "
you interpret that as
" If you are indeed seeking Christ ... ".

To me, that is not necessarily the same thing.

But is not Christ "the way, the truth, and the life"? As one who had his greatest joy when he was immersed in the word of God, you embraced that at one time. How have you gotten so far removed from it? If we examine that, we may find the answers to your search.

 

[Pumicestone]

But is not Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" ?
As one who had his greatest joy when he was immersed in the word of God, you embraced that at one time.
How have you gotten so far removed from it?

Well for starters I guess, I was then a naive, gullible teenager. Now I'm not.
And I have no confidence that Yeshua ever said "I am the way, the truth and the life" because I perceive the "bible" to be a most unreliable source for a whole host of reasons.


But Vig, whilst I am more than happy to engage with you on these matters - in fact I admire your willingness to do so -
might I suggest that perhaps we should create another thread ?
This clearly has little to do with killer-cops (American or otherwise) and I can hear the "Off Topic" alarm bells ringing loudly in my ears.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Well for starters I guess, I was then a naive, gullible teenager. Now I'm not.
And I have no confidence that Yeshua ever said "I am the way, the truth and the life" because I perceive the "bible" to be a most unreliable source for a whole host of reasons.


But Vig, whilst I am more than happy to engage with you on these matters - in fact I admire your willingness to do so -
might I suggest that perhaps we should create another thread ?
This clearly has little to do with killer-cops (American or otherwise) and I can hear the "Off Topic" alarm bells ringing loudly in my ears.

Good idea. "Miscellaneous" would probably be the best location. Meet you there?

 

[phil38111]

Well for starters I guess, I was then a naive, gullible teenager. Now I'm not.
And I have no confidence that Yeshua ever said "I am the way, the truth and the life" because I perceive the "bible" to be a most unreliable source for a whole host of reasons.


But Vig, whilst I am more than happy to engage with you on these matters - in fact I admire your willingness to do so -
might I suggest that perhaps we should create another thread ?
This clearly has little to do with killer-cops (American or otherwise) and I can hear the "Off Topic" alarm bells ringing loudly in my ears.

Pumicestone, the Bible is a reliable source. If you think otherwise, then just pick up a scholarly book called "the Case For Christ" and it will clear everything up for you. One of the chapters is about whether the New Testament books are reliable or not. Don't just come to conclusions in your own mind without doing proper research first. I hope I am not casting pearls before swine, but all I can do it point you to the evidence. It is up to you whether you will actually do the research or not.

 

[Pumicestone]

But Vig .... might I suggest that perhaps we should create another thread ?
This clearly has little to do with killer-cops (American or otherwise) and I can hear the "Off Topic" alarm bells ringing loudly in my ears.

Good idea. "Miscellaneous" would probably be the best location.
Meet you there?

Pumicestone, the Bible is a reliable source.
If you think otherwise, then just pick up a scholarly book called "the Case For Christ" and it will clear everything up for you.
One of the chapters is about whether the New Testament books are reliable or not.
Don't just come to conclusions in your own mind without doing proper research first.
I hope I am not casting pearls before swine, but all I can do it point you to the evidence.
It is up to you whether you will actually do the research or not.

Phil and Vigilant Warrior - I have created a thread under Miscellaneous called 'The Vigilant Pumicestone' if anyone wants to pursue this .................

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

[ . . . ] 'The Vigilant Pumicestone' [ . . . ]

I like it!!

 

[skipp]

Inner-city schools in the U.S. are nothing more than "manufacturing facilities" and they fail miserably in their production because the educators are more concerned about keeping their jobs and keeping their budgets than they are about actually teaching.

I don't think that's fair to inner-city teachers, many of which are working in pretty hellish conditions. Statistics show that the majority of teachers in inner-city schools are inexperienced first year teachers. These young teachers, no matter how idealistic initially, usually end up burnt out due to the awful working conditions and ready to jump ship to an opening in a suburban/rural school the first chance they get. I work in a lower income rural school myself and the problems we have are nothing compared to what the inner-city teachers have to deal with. None of my students are in violent gangs. I don't have to worry about getting beat up, spit on, cussed at, or stabbed on a regular basis. I'm not scared of my own students. Inner-city schools are terrible, violent, chaotic hellholes and the teachers themselves have very little control over the kids since discipline is not allowed.

Kids growing up in a dysfunctional, chaotic culture that glorifies violence and thuggish behavior are going to be impossible to teach unless the teachers are allowed to have some discipline over the kids.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

I don't think that's fair to inner-city teachers, many of which are working in pretty hellish conditions.

Good teachings don't stay in that environment. They don't have to. They can get better paying jobs in suburban districts. The inner city schools are left with the dregs of the profession, or first-year teachers who don't know what they've let themselves in for by signing that inner city contract. Sounds harsh, I know, but those are the facts.

Statistics show that the majority of teachers in inner-city schools are inexperienced first year teachers.

And why do you think there were openings for them to fill?

These young teachers, no matter how idealistic initially, usually end up burnt out due to the awful working conditions and ready to jump ship to an opening in a suburban/rural school the first chance they get.

You've pretty much made my case for me so far.

I work in a lower income rural school myself and the problems we have are nothing compared to what the inner-city teachers have to deal with. None of my students are in violent gangs. I don't have to worry about getting beat up, spit on, cussed at, or stabbed on a regular basis. I'm not scared of my own students. Inner-city schools are terrible, violent, chaotic hellholes and the teachers themselves have very little control over the kids since discipline is not allowed.

And if you did have to deal with those horrific conditions, you would move on, because you can, right?

Kids growing up in a dysfunctional, chaotic culture that glorifies violence and thuggish behavior are going to be impossible to teach unless the teachers are allowed to have some discipline over the kids.

Which is why they can't keep good teachers there to teach them.

 

[Angela53510]

As a life-long 'seeker-after-truth' should I not come to a Christian site ?

I made a "Decision for Christ" at the tender age of 13 - and was convinced I was 'called' to the ministry.
I studied, read, witnessed ('till my school-friends thought I was nuts), prayed - utterly steeped in the Word and my local Baptist church.

Without doubt the happiest years of my life - 'casting all your cares upon him because he careth for you'.
Life was so simple - so crystal clear.

But, by the time I was twenty, the doubts were flooding in.
More reading, more study, more lectures, more exposure to alternate opinions, together with my life-experiences, convinced me I had backed the wrong horse.
I cannot choose to believe. Things must make sense.

But I'd like to believe and perhaps my presence here is part of that forlorn hope ?
Be assured, I will go if I am unwelcome.

It is certainly not my wish to "un-convert" others - even if I could.

My testimony is somewhat similar to yours. Converted at a young age, in a Baptist church, then falling away when I thought "things didn't make sense." By age 20 I was an atheist, convinced there was no god anywhere.

Circumstances in my life led me to realize that maybe there was some kind of deity, after all. But which one? So many choices! I started reading the holy books of the world, and seeking out different religions. I meditated with Buddhists, danced with Sufis, studied with Bahai's, worshiped with Hindus, and even got really far out and into new age stuff like theosophy and the ascended masters. But my life was going steadily downhill, and it never seemed like I found any truth that worked for me in these different religions.

As an afterthought, I decided to read the Bible. I was 26, and there was a revival going on where I lived, with many people getting saved. But I didn't understand a word of the Bible. I would go out drinking at night, and come home and read the Bible and put circles and question marks all over the page.

Then, one night, my future husband and I were talking about all the people in the Bible that God forgave. Like David, and Peter, and Mary Magdelene. I suddenly realized that Jesus was the Saviour of the world, and he was MY Saviour, too! God spoke to me clearly and told me to repent of my sins. Drinking was a big one, and I never have had a drink in 35 years. Other things, I keep working on.

As for the Bible, I picked it up again, and it made sense. That is because I had met the author of the book. I also realized that the whole time I had been away from God, he had been standing there right behind me, waiting for me to turn around - which is the meaning of the word "repent." I know he is waiting for you to turn around too!

I am also available to talk about your doubts, please PM me anytime.

 

[royalscot]

when did it become the school teachers responsibility for bad behavior. and with the stats of the police killing 2 people a day. what teacher taught them, to shoot a gun. are we back to the blame game. or is there any way to put history in the past, and make way, for a fairer unbigotry solution. dose that start with our attitudes, that need to change.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

when did it become the school teachers responsibility for bad behavior. and with the stats of the police killing 2 people a day. what teacher taught them, to shoot a gun. are we back to the blame game. or is there any way to put history in the past, and make way, for a fairer unbigotry solution. dose that start with our attitudes, that need to change.

Like it or not, the schools, the city, the unions, even the police forces that are taking the heat for "out of control police violence" -- a false narrative of immense proportions -- are all run by Democrats.

Every single member of the Baltimore City Council, to take an example, is a Democrat. Liberalism and all the toxic government dependence and cronyism and union corruption and failed schools that come along with liberalism has run amok in Baltimore for a half-century, and that is the crux of Baltimore’s problem. It is the free people of Baltimore who elect and then re-elect those who institute policies that have so spectacularly failed that once-great city. It is the free people of Baltimore who elected Mayor “Space-to-Destroy.”

Another example, in counterpoint, is Watauga County, North Carolina, where the poverty level is 31.3%. Median income is only $34,293. In both of those areas Watauga County is much worse off than Baltimore, where the poverty rate of only 23.8% and the median income is $41,385.

Guess what? They don't riot in Watauga County. They've got a lot more cause, if the cities of Ferguson, New York City, and Baltimore can "host riots" after a suspect is shot by a police officer, but they don't do it.

Watauga County has not been poisoned by the same left-wing culture that is rotting Baltimore, and so many other cities like it, from the inside out. In Watauga County, people get along remarkably well. They are neighbors. They are people who help out one another. They take pride in their community, and they are grateful for what they do have. They are far from perfect, but they work out their many differences in civilized ways. Solutions are their goal, not cronyism, narcissistic victimhood, and the blaming of others.

The primary difference between Baltimore and Watauga County? Watauga County is 95% white, 2% black, 1% Asian, 1% Hispanic. Baltimore is 63% black. The issue in Baltimore, Ferguson, New York City, etc., is who is running the city and its various services and employment opportunities. Black Democrat attitudes of entitlement have permeated the black community to the point they are hopeless, until such time as they realize it is not working.