OSAS doctrine denies the faith
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When Jesus said "be perfect" He was speaking of moral perfection as it relates to loving one another as He has loved us.
Christians are to be perfect in love. There is no willful sin in love. None.
Being perfect in love does not mean perfect in knowledge and understanding and due to that there is still plenty of opportunity to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Those who argue in favour of God justifying people whom are still engaged in rebellion to God are in error. The disobedient are condemned and that is why God is calling all those whom are in rebellion to REPENT and TURN that they may be healed and washed clean.
The farce of modern Christianity is a complete perversion of the truth. The farce of modern Christianity has people convinced that they were born wicked and that they will always be wicked whilst they exist in a flesh body. Thus "wickedness" is an issue of "human flesh" and not an issue of MORALITY. Due to this repentance is twisted into being a mere "confession of being wicked" instead of being a "confession of a criminal" necessitating a forsaking of all known crime. Thus under the farce people think they are getting saved whilst they remain disobedient to God and they think it is up to God to effect some magical change in them whereby they will be less wicked.
The farce of modern Christianity presents sanctification as a transition period of becoming "less wicked." This is why the institutional churches are generally full of sin. The sin NEVER has to stop because everyone is still doing evil of some kind. This is why the people deceived by this system of lies are so easily exposed when forced to address the issue of "can an active child molester, serial killer, or rapist" be saved and justified?
They HAVE to say YES because to say no would imply that the rebellion to God has to actually cease and they cannot do that. Thus they can make no distinction between an active serial murderer and a pornography addict lest their whole religion come tumbling down. They will say things like "those whom are saved will WANT to stop," but they can never allude to actually stopping being a requirement. Thus the religion of salvation being a mere cloak for ongoing wickedness is assured in their minds.
So many of you are deceived by this lie and so many of you clearly want to be deceived by it and that is why you will suppress verses like this in your minds...
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
No sin defender will touch that verse with a ten foot pole.
Christians are to be perfect in love. There is no willful sin in love. None.
Being perfect in love does not mean perfect in knowledge and understanding and due to that there is still plenty of opportunity to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Those who argue in favour of God justifying people whom are still engaged in rebellion to God are in error. The disobedient are condemned and that is why God is calling all those whom are in rebellion to REPENT and TURN that they may be healed and washed clean.
The farce of modern Christianity is a complete perversion of the truth. The farce of modern Christianity has people convinced that they were born wicked and that they will always be wicked whilst they exist in a flesh body. Thus "wickedness" is an issue of "human flesh" and not an issue of MORALITY. Due to this repentance is twisted into being a mere "confession of being wicked" instead of being a "confession of a criminal" necessitating a forsaking of all known crime. Thus under the farce people think they are getting saved whilst they remain disobedient to God and they think it is up to God to effect some magical change in them whereby they will be less wicked.
The farce of modern Christianity presents sanctification as a transition period of becoming "less wicked." This is why the institutional churches are generally full of sin. The sin NEVER has to stop because everyone is still doing evil of some kind. This is why the people deceived by this system of lies are so easily exposed when forced to address the issue of "can an active child molester, serial killer, or rapist" be saved and justified?
They HAVE to say YES because to say no would imply that the rebellion to God has to actually cease and they cannot do that. Thus they can make no distinction between an active serial murderer and a pornography addict lest their whole religion come tumbling down. They will say things like "those whom are saved will WANT to stop," but they can never allude to actually stopping being a requirement. Thus the religion of salvation being a mere cloak for ongoing wickedness is assured in their minds.
So many of you are deceived by this lie and so many of you clearly want to be deceived by it and that is why you will suppress verses like this in your minds...
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
No sin defender will touch that verse with a ten foot pole.
This is all people like you have. Rhetoric.
Jesus Himself stated that it is the pure in heart who will see God. Jesus Himself stated that one is to cleanse first that which is within.
Yet the "I was born a sinner" folk teach that one CANNOT cleanse that which is within. The "I was born a sinner" argue in favour of perpetual inward filth.
Folks like you do not believe the words of Jesus in the Bible. You treat His teachings like a menu and refer to only very select portions and ignore the harmonious whole.
Jesus taught that we are to strive, dig deep, count the cost, die in order to live, pick up our cross, deny self, follow Him, keep His commandments, love one another. Yet folks like you appear to exclusively focus on teachings like John 3:16 where you hold to "belief" as being a mere mental assertion to some facts being true.
Real belief is inclusive of aligning oneself with the truth and walking in accordance with that truth. That is why Jesus preached believe and follow, that is why Jesus preached believe and keep my commandments, that is why Jesus preached believe and be a doer of the word. True belief is inclusive of FAITHFULNESS to that belief, not operating in discordance with that belief.
This is so simple. Yet is so easier to ignore. It is so easy to say things like...
Jesus warned us...
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
1. Few saved.
2. We must strive.
3. Workers of iniquity will be rejected.
These things are so clear that only a fool would reject them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
1. MANY workers of iniquity who profess Jesus as Lord will be rejected.
2. The wise man is the one who hears and does.
3. The foolish man is the one who hears and does not.
Jesus so clearly taught that if people want to enter the kingdom that they have to OBEY Him, they have to be DOERS of the word. Yet if one contends that DOING is a mandatory condition they will be considered accursed by many professing Christians today.
Ancient Israel was blind and deceived. The Pharisees were blind and deceived. The MAJORITY was deceived in those times and it is no different today with the MAJORITY being deceived.
The prophets were rejected by the religious people and Jesus was rejected by the religious people.
The religious people reject Jesus today. They have invented this fake Jesus which they simply have to "trust in" by which they will enter into the kingdom even though they are still inwardly wicked.
Utter foolishness.
We don't have to be fools, we can instead DO what Jesus said to DO. Abide in Him (the Spirit of His life) and KEEP His words.
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Just to clarify the first paragraph above.
Does a child molester, serial killer, or rapist have to STOP molesting children, STOP murdering, STOP raping BEFORE God will grant them mercy and forgive them of their sin?
That is the question which exposes the modern fallacy.
That one question reveals that the wizard behind the curtain is really of no substance.
The priests of the modern religious system generally have to say NO in answer to that question for to say YES opens a can of worms regarding what they believe. If they are to admit that a child molestation, murder and rape have to stop BEFORE God will forgive one of those crimes then they would have to also admit that ALL known sin has to stop also BEFORE God will grant forgiveness.
The Bible is very clear in teaching...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
1. Sin has to be confessed and forsaken BEFORE mercy is granted.
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
1. The wicked have to forsake their way and their thoughts and return to the Lord BEFORE mercy is granted.
In other words one has to lay aside ALL known wickedness in order to receive the Logos of God within and it is the Logos within which effects a real salvation. This is why we must not only hear but we also must do.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
The child molester has to lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save their soul.
The serial killer has to lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save their soul.
The rapist has to lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save their soul.
It is the same with the alcohol abusing drunkard, the lying and cheating individual, the fornicating fornicator, masturbating pornography addict, the adultery committing adulterer, the selfish lovers of pleasure who love pleasure more than God or their neighbour.
The modern church system denies this with its twisted application of scripture. They have subtle lie upon subtle lie, subtle false doctrine upon subtle false doctrine, which all work together to imply that one DOES NOT in fact have to lay aside ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness in order to receive the implanted word which can save the soul. Instead they teach that one just has to...
1. Confess they are a wretched sinner.
2. Trust in Jesus and the finished work of the cross.
and PRESTO, like magic, one is deemed saved and secure.
What an incredible departure from what the Bible actually teaches. It such an ingenious deception that people can walk around with Bibles, go to Bible studies, and think they are saved when they have NEVER laid aside ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness. In fact they are told that they can't do such a thing and to imply that one must would be "salvation by works." They fear this notion of "salvation by works" so much that they vehemently oppose any notion whereby wholehearted obedience to God has anything to do with salvation. Instead they think it is "all God" and "nothing of us."
God does it all and we do nothing is what they believe, even though Jesus so very plainly taught hear and do. Even though the Bible teaches DO from cover to cover they reject it. God will make them do at some stage they think, that is God's job. "Oh praise God, I don't have to do for if I did then that would be self righteousness" they think. Oh how twisted things have become in the minds of the deceived.
Does a child molester, serial killer, or rapist have to STOP molesting children, STOP murdering, STOP raping BEFORE God will grant them mercy and forgive them of their sin?
You have a talent for asking questions that demonstrate a lack of wisdom. If you understood grace you would know that you must be saved before you can claim forgiveness of sin.
It is Gods grace that changes a person creating a new nature after Christ.
So did you make yourself good enough to be saved before God saved you? It appears as if you see yourself as good enough to be saved now. How good must you be before God saves you? Must you remain in your "sinless" condition to remain saved?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
An individual who holds to OSAS has to teach that one can actively engage in child molestation, serial murder, or rape and still remain justified before God.
They have to teach that in order to remain consistent that one cannot do ANYTHING that would result in a loss of salvation.
Would any of you OSAS people like to challenge this? Go ahead, give it your best shot.
Let's see if any of you OSAS can actually address the substance of such an assertion. Don't resort to ad hominen or misdirection.
Does a child molester, serial killer, or rapist have to STOP molesting children, STOP murdering, STOP raping BEFORE God will grant them mercy and forgive them of their sin?
OSAS is premised on the deception that salvation is a mere position.OSAS is premised on the deception that salvation is not saved FROM sin. Rather it is premised on the position that salvation is saved IN sin.
The Bible teaches that salvation is FROM sin. We whom have been genuinely saved have been redeemed from all iniquity and made pure whereby we are zealous for righteousness. We abide in the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ whereby true righteousness is fulfilled IN us because we have the power of God working unrestricted through our entire being. This salvation is a manifest reality and it is a state we must hold steadfast to lest we be drawn back into our old ways and be defiled by sin. There is no willful sin in salvation.The salvation of the OSAS people is fake. It is a mere mental belief in an abstract position. It is based purely off dogma derived from the twisting of scripture and the imaginations of men.
OSAS is but a symptom of a false view of salvation.
A proper definition of salvation ought to be the focus, not OSAS versus non-OSAS. OSAS versus non-OSAS is really a ruse to keep people running in circles going nowhere. This is why the whole Arminianism versus Calvinism is a false paradigm rooted in deception. We have to flee from the oppositions of knowledge so called and diligently seek the truth.
Read the words of Jesus.
Read the words of Paul.
Read the words of Peter.
Read the words of James.
Don't read isolated verses as proof texts, rather read the Gospels and letters as a whole, let the harmony wash over you, understand the context. It is all very simple. All that is required is an honest heart and a diligence for truth.
The deceivers easily deceive people because the people want to be spoon fed rather than digging for themselves. Thus when the deceivers excise their proof texts from the real context and impose rhetoric upon them they sound very convincing to the unlearned.
Don't be deceived by these wolves. This forum is full of them. The pulpits around the world are full of them. The book stores are full of their books. These wolves are all over the tv and radio. These wolves are in the seminaries.
There is massive deception in this world and massive deception is POPULAR. The people love it. Has it ever been any other way?
Jesus told us that FEW will be saved and that MANY would be deceived.
Don't be one of the MANY, be one of the FEW. Be a hearer and a doer.
They have to teach that in order to remain consistent that one cannot do ANYTHING that would result in a loss of salvation.
Would any of you OSAS people like to challenge this? Go ahead, give it your best shot.
Let's see if any of you OSAS can actually address the substance of such an assertion. Don't resort to ad hominen or misdirection.
Does a child molester, serial killer, or rapist have to STOP molesting children, STOP murdering, STOP raping BEFORE God will grant them mercy and forgive them of their sin?
OSAS is premised on the deception that salvation is a mere position.OSAS is premised on the deception that salvation is not saved FROM sin. Rather it is premised on the position that salvation is saved IN sin.
The Bible teaches that salvation is FROM sin. We whom have been genuinely saved have been redeemed from all iniquity and made pure whereby we are zealous for righteousness. We abide in the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ whereby true righteousness is fulfilled IN us because we have the power of God working unrestricted through our entire being. This salvation is a manifest reality and it is a state we must hold steadfast to lest we be drawn back into our old ways and be defiled by sin. There is no willful sin in salvation.The salvation of the OSAS people is fake. It is a mere mental belief in an abstract position. It is based purely off dogma derived from the twisting of scripture and the imaginations of men.
OSAS is but a symptom of a false view of salvation.
A proper definition of salvation ought to be the focus, not OSAS versus non-OSAS. OSAS versus non-OSAS is really a ruse to keep people running in circles going nowhere. This is why the whole Arminianism versus Calvinism is a false paradigm rooted in deception. We have to flee from the oppositions of knowledge so called and diligently seek the truth.
Read the words of Jesus.
Read the words of Paul.
Read the words of Peter.
Read the words of James.
Don't read isolated verses as proof texts, rather read the Gospels and letters as a whole, let the harmony wash over you, understand the context. It is all very simple. All that is required is an honest heart and a diligence for truth.
The deceivers easily deceive people because the people want to be spoon fed rather than digging for themselves. Thus when the deceivers excise their proof texts from the real context and impose rhetoric upon them they sound very convincing to the unlearned.
Don't be deceived by these wolves. This forum is full of them. The pulpits around the world are full of them. The book stores are full of their books. These wolves are all over the tv and radio. These wolves are in the seminaries.
There is massive deception in this world and massive deception is POPULAR. The people love it. Has it ever been any other way?
Jesus told us that FEW will be saved and that MANY would be deceived.
Don't be one of the MANY, be one of the FEW. Be a hearer and a doer.
You have a talent for asking questions that demonstrate a lack of wisdom. If you understood grace you would know that you must be saved before you can claim forgiveness of sin.Originally Posted by Skinski7
Does a child molester, serial killer, or rapist have to STOP molesting children, STOP murdering, STOP raping BEFORE God will grant them mercy and forgive them of their sin?
It is Gods grace that changes a person creating a new nature after Christ.
So did you make yourself good enough to be saved before God saved you? It appears as if you see yourself as good enough to be saved now. How good must you be before God saves you? Must you remain in your "sinless" condition to remain saved?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You won't touch that question will you?
Of course it is God's grace which transforms us. The grace of God which brings salvation is teaching that...
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Of course one has to be saved before one can claim forgiveness of sin. That is not the issue I was addressing. I simply asked...
Does a child molester, serial killer, or rapist have to STOP molesting children, STOP murdering, STOP raping BEFORE God will grant them mercy and forgive them of their sin?
You obviously don't like that question.
How about I rephrase it just for you...
Does the wicked have to forsake his way, the unrighteous man his thoughts, and return to the Lord BEFORE mercy is granted and he is abundantly pardoned?
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Is that a question that you perceive demonstrates a lack of wisdom?
I perceive that your response is a demonstration of a lack of love for the plain truth taught in the Bible.
As for this...
I said not a word about "making ourselves good enough." I said words about the wicked forsaking his way and the unrighteous his thoughts in repentance. People like you appear to constantly refuse to address what I actually write and attempt to create some strawman like "making ourselves good enough."
How good must we be before God saves you? I didn't say a single word about being "good enough." The issue is not about being "good enough" but rather REBELLION. Forsaking evil doesn't merit forgiveness, forsaking evil is simply what God commands all evil doers to do BEFORE He will grant mercy.
We have to remain FAITHFUL in order to inherit eternal life.
Must one remain "sinless" in order to remain saved? That is like asking whether one has to keep out of the mud pit in order to remain clean.
Salvation is saved FROM serving sin. If one is to obey sin then they are not saved from its service. God has no intention of cloaking ongoing sin service, God truly saves people from the service of sin and that is what REDEMPTION is all about.
Are you going to respond? If so how? With more diversion, fallacies and strawmen? Or perhaps you would like to answer the questions or actually address the real substance of what I have written.
Answer not a fool according to his folly.
Titus is speaking about sanctification not salvation. Romans 5:6 tells us that Christ died for us while we were sinners. We cannot change ourselves and after we are saved we cannot remain unchanged. You deny grace and appear to have no knowledge of grace.
Christ loved you while you were a sinner and estranged from God. You did not change to become saved. Christ saved you before you changed. It was the divine imposition of grace that changed you.
So you do not say it but you imply it. Sorry same thing. You do not understand how Gods grace works. You do not understand how God loves sinners and saves them the way He finds them. Mercy has not pre-conditions. God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all.
Completely false. Christ alone is faithful and having begun this work in us will complete it. Christ not I. Another I will from Lucifer.
We have this treasure in earthen, mud, vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God.
You make it obvious that you do not know what it is to be saved. Lucifer said I will not Gods will. Isaiah 14:12-14 I will be like the Most High God, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds.
Answer a fool according to his folly. If you are sinless then you will live forever in your current body.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
A person who nhas come to faith in Jesus Christ as their Saviour is saved and forever adopted into the family of God. His sins are wiped away---ALL of them: past, present and future. It is the mark of a false convert who lives his life in such a way as to negate the fact that we are no longer sinners, but saints saved by God's great grace. A truly born again person does not go back to practice sinning as he did before.
Now, those who backslide need encouragement and discipline, but it it the discerning of the Lord that tells us what is occurring in the lives of these troubled people. We do not automatically claim they are reprobates and write them off as unsaved. Christians do fall sometimes and shipwreck their lives, but they are still children of the Father...although Prodigals.
Now, those who backslide need encouragement and discipline, but it it the discerning of the Lord that tells us what is occurring in the lives of these troubled people. We do not automatically claim they are reprobates and write them off as unsaved. Christians do fall sometimes and shipwreck their lives, but they are still children of the Father...although Prodigals.
Paul said when we are faithless he remains faithful for he cannot disown his own. You should have said, we must not disown Christ, something no truly born again person could do
So you do sin? Please stop speaking in Riddles! Do you sin or not? Easy question
We were all without hope before JESUS came and took the punishment for our sins and gave all that believe the WORD of GOD his righteousness
Its not about big sin or little sin but it is about a relationship with GOD.
when we were still enemies GOD died for us.
Remember GOD is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth and GOD is pleased with those that are reborn because we are his workmanship and our spirits are sealed after salvation.
Someone said well how do you get faith?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of GOD.
Paul said renew your mind.
Its not about big sin or little sin but it is about a relationship with GOD.
when we were still enemies GOD died for us.
Remember GOD is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth and GOD is pleased with those that are reborn because we are his workmanship and our spirits are sealed after salvation.
Someone said well how do you get faith?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of GOD.
Paul said renew your mind.
Scott replies in blue.
Answer not a fool according to his folly. A convenient response of one who abhors mercy being conditioned on the forsaking of evil. This is the response of someone who wants mercy with no conditions.Originally Posted by Skinski7
You won't touch that question will you?
As I have said this question exposes the massive religious deception which is in operation at its root.
Does a child molester, serial killer, or rapist have to STOP molesting children, STOP murdering, STOP raping BEFORE God will grant them mercy and forgive them of their sin?
Even though the Bible makes statements like...
Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
...these people simply cannot have a repentance which mandates a forsaking of all known evil.
These people cannot get around this and all they can do is ignore the obvious and resort to ad hominen in a vain attempt to discredit the messenger.
Titus is speaking about sanctification not salvation. Romans 5:6 tells us that Christ died for us while we were sinners. We cannot change ourselves and after we are saved we cannot remain unchanged. You deny grace and appear to have no knowledge of grace. See how these people are forced to separate justification from sanctification. In their mind one can be justified before God whilst raping babies and murdering people with the cessation of those taking place in some vague "sanctification" process they teach.Originally Posted by Skinski7
Of course it is God's grace which transforms us. The grace of God which brings salvation is teaching that...
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
The presents sanctification as being "set apart" unto holiness. Yes we grow in sanctification but that growth is in the context of the purging of ignorance from our minds and growing in wisdom. Sanctification has nothing to do with serving Satan less than before.
These basically imply that one can be justified in the service of Satan. They will never put it as blatantly as that because they are devious deceivers but simply look at their words, at their rhetoric, they cannot tell anyone that any particular evil act has to be forsaken. Even when an extreme example like child molestation, rape or murder is raised they run from addressing the issue. They know full well that to directly address such a thing will expose them for all to see.
Christ loved you while you were a sinner and estranged from God. You did not change to become saved. Christ saved you before you changed. It was the divine imposition of grace that changed you. James specifically states...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
1. It is the reception of the implanted word which saves.
2. Laying apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness goes hand in hand with receiving the implanted word.
ergo...
3. One must HEAR and DO.
Notice how these people NEVER speak of DOING being a condition. They always allude to DOING as being an effect. Also the DOING is never spoken of in absolute terms in the context of faithfulness, but it is rather nebulous and vague and is conclusive of only PARTIAL OBEDIENCE. Due to these folks believing that one can engage in wickedness and remain justified (OSAS) they can never connect DOING with WHOLEHEARTED OBEDIENCE. Thus when they teach that DOING is a result of salvation they have to be vague about what DOING actually is. In their mind DOING is but a vague measure of improvement that exists alongside the service of Satan. If this wasn't the case then they would be able to directly address the issue of "laying aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness" which they NEVER do.
So you do not say it but you imply it. Sorry same thing. Says you in the face of all reason and logic. You do not understand how Gods grace works. Gods grace works via us "working together with God" lest it is received in vain. Hence the clear teaching of HEAR AND DO. You do not understand how God loves sinners and saves them the way He finds them.
Mercy has not pre-conditions. Hath God said, mercy is conditional? Mercy is surely not conditional.
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
The Bible says "whoso confesseth and forsaketh sins shall have mercy."
Notuptome says...The Bible says...notuptome said:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Mercy in the context of the forgiveness of sins is clearly dependent on a forsaking of known sin. God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all. So you are going to contend for universal salvation now? Of course not, all you are doing is cherry picking the Bible in an attempt to shift the focus from what the Bible actually teaches.
Do you really think that a verse that pertains to the unbelief of national Israel as being essential in the Gospel going to the Gentiles cancels out the teaching of Isa 55:7, Pro 28:13, Jam 1:21?
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
All people like you have is dogmatic assertions which your spout like parrots. You simply cannot truly engage scripture, people like you resort to proof texting little snippets completely out of their context whilst ignoring what the Bible actually teaches. It is the action of brainwashed robots who simply cannot think for themselves and can only repeat soundbites.
The very passage you quote from to prove that there are no conditions as it relates to the forgiveness of sins refutes such a notion.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
"If thou continue" is a CONDITION. It is a CONDITION that Paul mentions earlier in his letter to the Romans...
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Yet Notuptome claims...
Notuptome says...notuptome said:
People like Notuptome are Bible Butchers.
Completely false. Christ alone is faithful and having begun this work in us will complete it. Christ not I. Another I will from Lucifer. Only Lucifer would tell people to be faithful to God right? Only Satan would teach that people must be faithful right?Originally Posted by Skinski7
We have to remain FAITHFUL in order to inherit eternal life.
Psa_101:6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.
Rev_17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Jesus taught that it is the good and faithful servant whom is rewarded, ther servant who DID with his talents, whilst it is the unfaithful whom are cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and nashing of teeth.
God is faithful to complete the good work in us yet only takes place if we abide in Him. This notion that God is going to complete a work in someone whilst they serve Satan is both foolish and stupid. Serving Satan has to stop. In fact being set free involved obedience to the truth from the heart, whereby we obey righteousness instead of wickedness.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Originally Posted by Skinski7
Are you going to respond? If so how? With more diversion, fallacies and strawmen? Or perhaps you would like to answer the questions or actually address the real substance of what I have written.
You make it obvious that you do not know what it is to be saved. Lucifer said I will not Gods will. Isaiah 14:12-14 I will be like the Most High God, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. So in your mind, contending that one must turn from evil and yield to God is the equivalent to wanting to topple God off the throne and wanting to sit there yourself? I have no real answer to such an allusion as that is nonsensical beyond belief.
You won't touch anything I say about "hear and do" even though it was Jesus who originally taught "hear and do" being essential. People like you just ignore it and go off on these ridiculous tangents. You didn't answer the questions I asked, you wrote them off as folly, you did not really address the content of anything I wrote, you just implied it was satanic and referenced a couple of Bible verses which have nothing to do with refuting anything I wrote.
Answer a fool according to his folly. If you are sinless then you will live forever in your current body. Have you not read Genesis 3:22-24?Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Physical death is the result of humanity being denied access to the Tree of Life. We are in mortal bodies. Being "sinless" has nothing to do with it. God denied the man access to the Tree of Life lest he live forever.
Your error is the ancient Gnostic heresy where you think sin is a malady of you being present in a flesh body. Thus you associate sinfulness with your flesh body. That is what the ancient Gnostics taught and you subscribe to a modified version invented by theologians who drew from the writings of Augustine.
You are under rank deception. The truth is not on your side and that is why you cannot engage the actual content of what I have written, to do so would only emphasise your error as being without foundation.
There is only one reality and we ought to all strive diligently to ascertain what that reality is and then align ourselves with that reality. When God judges us all the veil of deluision is going to be peeled back and we are all going to be standing naked before God with no excuse. God will give to every man according to His deeds, to those who were faithful, eternal life, to those who worked iniquity, they will be destroyed in the lake of fire.
For the cause of Christ Obviously not the Christ of the Bible who taught people to strive, endure, dig deep, count the cost, repent, keep his commandments, love one another in the same way He loved us, and top be doers of the word and not hearers only.
Roger
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For context please read...
The Pearl of Great Price: Two Types of Sin
My answer... I do not willfully sin.
Do you willfully sin? ie. sin knowingly (do that which is wrong when you know it is wrong).
You are laid bare before the Lord and you are revealed for what you are.
You boldly tell God what He shall do according to your wisdom. Jesus said you are of your father the devil.
You argue against yourself. The more you argue sinlessness the more you reveal your deep crimson stain within.
No man can change himself. God changes every man who trusts in Christ for salvation.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I try not to. I just thought you were so self righteous as to believe you don't sin
Here is what Paul wrote...
2Ti 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Paul is simply stating that Jesus cannot disown or deny Himself. Jesus is Jesus and Jesus is as Jesus is, Jesus is not going to change into something else. Even when human beings deny themselves in going back upon what they appear to be it is not the case with Jesus. That is all that Paul is teaching here.
It doesn't matter what we do Jesus will still be Jesus. It doesn't matter what we do the character of Jesus will stay the same.
That is what Paul is teaching there.
A human being can betray his principles but Jesus NEVER will do that.
That is what Paul is teaching there.
Yet you snip that verse and imply it means something else entirely. In fact you believe it is teaching OSAS...
Paul clearly teaches...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Thus even if your interpretation of that verse was true (which it isn't) you could not use it to support OSAS simply because we belong to whom we obey. A person in obedience to sin is not one of God's own.
This notion that one can be "born of the Spirit" and at the same time "walk according to the flesh" is wrong. We cannot serve two masters. Being "born of the Spirit" is conditional on repentance by which we CRUCIFY OUR OLD MAN and are hence risen up to newness of life by the power of God (born of the Spirit). To go back to serving the flesh is to forsake God. There is only no condemnation upon those whom WALK after the Spirit.
You are contending that one can sin and not surely die based on a misrepresentation of 2Tim 2:13. Paul wrote that...
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
What we DO matters.
Eternal life is to them who by patient continuance in well doing. Patiently continuing in doing the right thing is the very opposite of being unfaithful.
Cannot you see this? It is not hard to understand.
What do you do with passages like Romans 2:6-11? Just ignore it?