Dealing with the idea of Hell

[Reborn]

Which is not a Biblical concept. Jesus said to Peter, that if he loved him, he would feed his sheep. The Bible actually says we are to preach the Word.



I disagree strongly. You primarily seek to attack me and you do not stick to the Scriptures.



As you come here everyday and state that I am wrong. But the thing is... we cannot both be right. In fact, I know the God I worship is not the same one you worship. My God does not ignore morality. Granted, I do not believe ECT (Eternal Concious Torment) is a salvation issue, but I do know that if one holds to the concept that they can sin and still be saved is not teaching the truth of God's Word (Whether it be just one sin or a lot of sin).



Did not Jesus, Paul, and the others speak in the same way? Did they not lay down the truth and claim everyone else as false?



I leave when people start to gang up on me and they just want to insult me instead of dealing with the Scriptures.



Which is a true claim.



No, the Bible verses I bring forth sometimes don't even go answered from your camp. Many times I keep trying to stick to the Scriptures and yet everyone on your side just seeks to primarily insult me. Therein lies the difference. You cannot see it, because you choose not to see it.

Well, all you have done here seems to have worked on a few.
Birds of a feather. I get it..... Its okay to teach lies, as long as you do it with loooove.

I present scripture. You change the topic. Its useless with you.
Others present scripture. You avoid it all. You dodge 1 John 1:8 over and over and over and over......
Now it goes back to our opinion. Why do you have such a hard time understanding that?????!!!!!

You try sleight of hand by stating we can not answer your questions.
Others have, and you dislike their answers. Back to opinions.

If you and your legal team keep twisting scripture......expect it.
Remember, you're.....ahem.......being persecuted for righteousness sake.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Every Christian should have a very real image of how terrible hell is and how long folks will be there. It is not a matter of scaring folks but presenting to them that as nice a heaven will be the lake of fire will not be a pleasant place.

Jesus preached more on hell than He spoke of Heaven. It is that important to make lost souls aware of what awaits them.

Thank God for hearts still tender enough to weep for the lost and to plead with them to be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

yeah but Jesus did not scare people into believing him and that is what you and others seem to be stating.

He never chased after the young rich ruler saying:

Hey! Yeah You, Rich sinner... your are going to hell, because you will not believe in me!

 

[notuptome]

yeah but Jesus did not scare people into believing him and that is what you and others seem to be stating.

He never chased after the young rich ruler saying:

Hey! Yeah You, Rich sinner... your are going to hell, because you will not believe in me!

Any person with an ounce of sense would and should fear hell. Jesus taught that it were better to enter into life halt or maimed than being whole be cast into hell. Jesus showed in Luke 16 the rich man in torments and stressed that he could not leave there nor could he be comforted.

There is fear and then there is fear. Reverent fear when we see Gods perfect righteousness and see our complete imperfection. Then there is fear of Gods wrath upon sin.

Proverbs 1:7 the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Any person with an ounce of sense would and should fear hell. Jesus taught that it were better to enter into life halt or maimed than being whole be cast into hell. Jesus showed in Luke 16 the rich man in torments and stressed that he could not leave there nor could he be comforted.

There is fear and then there is fear. Reverent fear when we see Gods perfect righteousness and see our complete imperfection. Then there is fear of Gods wrath upon sin.

Proverbs 1:7 the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No believer should fear hell one bit or let sin have dominion over them, so why do you?

 

[Jason0047]

Well, all you have done here seems to have worked on a few.
Birds of a feather. I get it..... Its okay to teach lies, as long as you do it with loooove.

No lies are being taught at all. Instead of making a baseless accusation, please discuss the Scriptures that I have brought up.

I present scripture. You change the topic. Its useless with you.

You very rarely present Scripture. You yourself admit you do not like to teach using God's Word. So far in my dealing with you, it is primarily about attacking the individual and not sticking to the topic with the Bible. For what are you doing right now? Are you discussing this topic with Scripture? Or are you attempting to sling mud at me?

Others present scripture. You avoid it all. You dodge 1 John 1:8 over and over and over and over......
Now it goes back to our opinion. Why do you have such a hard time understanding that?????!!!!!

Actually I have explained 1 John 1:8 many times here on this website. You and others merely choose to ignore the obvious and plain written meaning. You just read verses as if they are separate bullets of truth (from an askewed point of view) and you do not read those verses according to the context.

In 1 John 1:8, John is warning the brethren against the false believer's who think they have no sin spiritually. This is like the OSAS proponent today who believes their sin debt is paid for: past, present, and future. So they can say they have no sin. So there is no need for them to confess their sin as per 1 John 1:9. They do not believe confessing sin to be necessary because they are forgiven of all sin, past, present, and future. The only difference between the false believers John was warning us about and the OSAS proponent today is that they will say they believe they sin physically in the flesh while spiritually they are not sinning because it was forgiven them.

The true believer will acknowledge their sin if sin does arise, and they will confess their sin as per 1 John 1:9. Thereby they admit that sin is very real and can potentially effect and harm the believer. So they confess it and they do not act like it is paid for automatically as if it does not exist for them. This view lines up with 1 John 1:5-7, 1 John 1:10, 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 2:4.

For the context of life and death in this epistle is dealing with salvation and not a break of fellowship as others in your camp have claimed. See 1 John 3:15.

You try sleight of hand by stating we can not answer your questions.
Others have, and you dislike their answers. Back to opinions.

The Bible is not about opinion. The Bible only has one plain written meaning to it based on the context. One can call upon the Lord for understanding when they read Scripture and not the teachings of men.

If you and your legal team keep twisting scripture

Keeping the Law in and of itself does not save anyone.
However, the Law was a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ.
One does not do away with their teachings completely from their school master.
Laws protect us in many ways.

Are you against laws?

Are you against the laws of the land that are good?
Are you against the laws of God?

Remember, you're.....ahem.......being persecuted for righteousness sake.

Yes, I do take this to mean I am being persecuted verbally for righteousness sake. So I will rejoice in my reward in Heaven.

 

[PeterJens]

I am going to be honest, as honest as I can be. People are living in hell today, constructed by loneliness, lack of love and understanding and long for the love and life Jesus promised. All they know is pain, being abandoned, betrayed, left for dead.
Some have fallen into sin and are trying to make the best of a bad job.

Now these people are meant to hear punishment? They are living in it.

 

[notuptome]

No believer should fear hell one bit or let sin have dominion over them, so why do you?

You misunderstand I do not fear hell. I'm like the old evangelist who once opined that he could swing out over the pit of hell on a rotten corn stalk and not fear falling in.

I fear that many souls will not heed the stern warning of what awaits those who die apart from the saving grace of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I am going to be honest, as honest as I can be. People are living in hell today, constructed by loneliness, lack of love and understanding and long for the love and life Jesus promised. All they know is pain, being abandoned, betrayed, left for dead.
Some have fallen into sin and are trying to make the best of a bad job.

Now these people are meant to hear punishment? They are living in it.

Not even close to the truth according to the bible.

Your worst day here will be far better than the best day you will have in the lake of fire.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Reborn]

No lies are being taught at all. Instead of making a baseless accusation, please discuss the Scriptures that I have brought up.



You very rarely present Scripture. You yourself admit you do not like to teach using God's Word. So far in my dealing with you, it is primarily about attacking the individual and not sticking to the topic with the Bible. For what are you doing right now? Are you discussing this topic with Scripture? Or are you attempting to sling mud at me?



Actually I have explained 1 John 1:8 many times here on this website. You and others merely choose to ignore the obvious and plain written meaning. You just read verses as if they are separate bullets of truth (from an askewed point of view) and you do not read those verses according to the context.

In 1 John 1:8, John is warning the brethren against the false believer's who think they have no sin spiritually. This is like the OSAS proponent today who believes their sin debt is paid for: past, present, and future. So they can say they have no sin. So there is no need for them to confess their sin as per 1 John 1:9. They do not believe confessing sin to be necessary because they are forgiven of all sin, past, present, and future. The only difference between the false believers John was warning us about and the OSAS proponent today is that they will say they believe they sin physically in the flesh while spiritually they are not sinning because it was forgiven them.

The true believer will acknowledge their sin if sin does arise, and they will confess their sin as per 1 John 1:9. Thereby they admit that sin is very real and can potentially effect and harm the believer. So they confess it and they do not act like it is paid for automatically as if it does not exist for them. This view lines up with 1 John 1:5-7, 1 John 1:10, 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 2:4.

For the context of life and death in this epistle is dealing with salvation and not a break of fellowship as others in your camp have claimed. See 1 John 3:15.



The Bible is not about opinion. The Bible only has one plain written meaning to it based on the context. One can call upon the Lord for understanding when they read Scripture and not the teachings of men.



Keeping the Law in and of itself does not save anyone.
However, the Law was a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ.
One does not do away with their teachings completely from their school master.
Laws protect us in many ways.

Are you against laws?

Are you against the laws of the land that are good?
Are you against the laws of God?



Yes, I do take this to mean I am being persecuted verbally for righteousness sake. So I will rejoice in my reward in Heaven.

You still do not get it. Amazing. It's like talking to a child.

You just said all of that? Why? To get the last word....again.

As long as you and "The Legal Team" are posting, someone will debate you guys. (You know that girl who all of a sudden deems you worthy of being taken off her ignore list?...she approves of you!!!)
Expect it from this forum. I'm done for today. Take the last word. I'm cool.

May God sprinkle gum drops made of rainbows and penguins made of love, on your day.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are ignoring quite a bit of he Bible that makes it explicitly clear that hell is eternal.

Ten Foundational Verses for Eternal Punishment in Hell | TGC

you are taking your own feelings in the matter and trying to justify them scripturally instead of reading what the scriptures say.

Yeah no doubt...he does it quite regularly......

 

[dcontroversal]

I say the same about your opinions.
Which 95% of the forum disagree with, btw.

Quick question.....are we all wrong here, then?

You completely missed the point........as always, man.
You're too proud of a man to debate. You resort to childish tactics to prove a point...or what you believe to be a point.
You stir up the thread.....and then you leave once the pot gets hot.

I'd rather debate my kid. Same outcome.

Man is not that the truth.........

 

[dcontroversal]

Jason what in the world makes you say...that Jesus preached to souls already on their way to hell?
That is absurd.
Jesus preached to flesh

The only thing I could imagine Jesus saying to a soul onward to hell...is "You shouldnt have been so terrible"

No doubt....he comes up with some rigmarole for sure!

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus is good news, because he came for the lost, to give them life.

In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. John 1:4


The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. John 10:10

The reason we believe in Jesus is because we believe in righteousness and purity and our failure to reach them.
Only through Jesus do we have a hope. It is not the size of fire, or its torture or not that makes people follow him, it is the combination of the message and who we are.

Personally the only reason why hell is an issue is it detracts from Gods love, because how could a God interested in wholeness be interested in broken failing people be punished for something they could not do.

I think literally this is a doctrine written by people who do not understand the essence of God or Jesus.
When you reach your 50's you know death is here, as people you know die off, and you see the foolishness and selfishness many display at the point of a real reality, honesty and love are the only thing that matters, because everything else is a joke.

Now if God is awesome, ones best buddy, knowing your enemies will fry forever drives subtle hatred and revenge.
I therefore suggest things are not as innocent as people make out.

 

[sparkman]

I have held the position of annihilationism in the past, as a member of a church influenced by the Seventh Day Adventists.

I have also studied the position of eternal torment.

I do not hold either position at this point. I simply refer to the fate of the unsaved to be eternal punishment.

Annihilationists tend to think their position is bulletproof, however their explanation of Lazarus and the Rich Man is wanting. They cannot explain the parable in a coherent way. I have heard the explanations that they use, and they are not coherent.

In addition, Satan and the angels will be eternally tormented, so we have evidence that God's love does not preclude eternal torment. If not the angels, why not mankind? My understanding is that the angels were deceived, just like lost humans are deceived.

At any rate, we don't judge God and his justice and love, so end of story. Whatever God does is right and just.

By the way, since God does have exhaustive foreknowledge, he knew when he created the evil angels that they would be lost, and he knows the same thing about humans who are lost. To imply otherwise is to question God's omniscience and explicit statements to this effect:

Isaiah 46;10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'.

 

[Sirk]

You still do not get it. Amazing. It's like talking to a child.

You just said all of that? Why? To get the last word....again.

As long as you and "The Legal Team" are posting, someone will debate you guys. (You know that girl who all of a sudden deems you worthy of being taken off her ignore list?...she approves of you!!!)
Expect it from this forum. I'm done for today. Take the last word. I'm cool.

May God sprinkle gum drops made of rainbows and penguins made of love, on your day.

...and some footos too!

 

[Willie-T]

I have held the position of annihilationism in the past, as a member of a church influenced by the Seventh Day Adventists.

I have also studied the position of eternal torment.

I do not hold either position at this point. I simply refer to the fate of the unsaved to be eternal punishment.

Annihilationists tend to think their position is bulletproof, however their explanation of Lazarus and the Rich Man is wanting. They cannot explain the parable in a coherent way. I have heard the explanations that they use, and they are not coherent.

In addition, Satan and the angels will be eternally tormented, so we have evidence that God's love does not preclude eternal torment. If not the angels, why not mankind? My understanding is that the angels were deceived, just like lost humans are deceived.

At any rate, we don't judge God and his justice and love, so end of story. Whatever God does is right and just.

By the way, since God does have exhaustive foreknowledge, he knew when he created the evil angels that they would be lost, and he knows the same thing about humans who are lost. To imply otherwise is to question God's omniscience and explicit statements to this effect:

Isaiah 46;10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'.

And then, if you go and seriously and carefully read Revelation 22, there goes the strict, unshakable idea of "eternal" punishment, right out the door.

 

[Tankman131]

I asked once before and you never answered.
How many have you led personally to Jesus Christ young man?

Furthermore Romans 6.23 doe snot say anything about hell, but death. That means more than the lake of fire son.

Im 23 years old, been a christian for 5 years, and i can say ive been the conduit through which the Holy Spirit brought people to Christ. Have i led anyone to Christ? No. Im not arrogant enough to think i am the one that did the leading.

You seem to think evangelism is some kind of game where we are all supposed to keep score of "how many we led to Christ."

Grow up. People's eternities are at stake, more than just your ego.

 

[JesusLives]

Sometimes I wonder about the last four words......

 

[Tankman131]

At this point i am quite sad at how entrenched in the unbiblical some of you are simply because the concept of hell hurts your feelings. Do you seriously believe that your twisting of scripture brings about the truth or are you purposefuly being deceptive?

 

[JesusLives]

I have held the position of annihilationism in the past, as a member of a church influenced by the Seventh Day Adventists.

I have also studied the position of eternal torment.

I do not hold either position at this point. I simply refer to the fate of the unsaved to be eternal punishment.

Annihilationists tend to think their position is bulletproof, however their explanation of Lazarus and the Rich Man is wanting. They cannot explain the parable in a coherent way. I have heard the explanations that they use, and they are not coherent.

In addition, Satan and the angels will be eternally tormented, so we have evidence that God's love does not preclude eternal torment. If not the angels, why not mankind? My understanding is that the angels were deceived, just like lost humans are deceived.

At any rate, we don't judge God and his justice and love, so end of story. Whatever God does is right and just.

By the way, since God does have exhaustive foreknowledge, he knew when he created the evil angels that they would be lost, and he knows the same thing about humans who are lost. To imply otherwise is to question God's omniscience and explicit statements to this effect:

Isaiah 46;10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'.

I don't agree with the red line of your statement.....God did not create evil angels....the angels God created were perfect in every way and functioned as perfect beings until they decided to follow and have sympathies with satan...then they chose to become evil.....their decision not God's creation.