Are you aware some of us don't believe in End Times philosophy?

[crossnote]

true,

But I would not call the church a brighter light, if we actually look at the history of the church, and history of Israel. They almost look identical. The names, terms and laws may have changed, the ceremony and ritual may have changed, But the excuses, the deception, The misinformation. The adding laws which are not given by God and making them equal with scripture. The severe hatred of anyone not of them. The short amount of time in which it was perverted to be unrecognizable of what God intended etc etc. All look the same.

Israel could not get it with the priesthood. The church (gentile) could not get it with the preists and bishops and whatever. Time for Christ to come down and show both alike how he intended it to be. Oh what a glorious day that will be.

But like Isreal and there rejection of Christs first advent, because they had it all together. the church thiks it has it all together so reject his second advent.

Just a little bit of sarcasm.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just a little bit of sarcasm.

lol. guess it is hard for me to do anything little..

 

[p_rehbein]

I would think every Christian believes in "end times." As we all await His return. Now, I do not believe much of what I read here concerning the various teachings of various religions, denominations and such, but, sure, I believe that in time, time will end.

 

[Reborn]

Can we discuss it in Heaven, Lynn?

I'm sure there will be plenty of people saying "man.....l was way off"
Others might say....."see, .....l kind of told you, so"

It won't matter by then.
I have no thoughts on the end times.

Now, if you'll excuse me l have to go prep my bunker, somethings on the horizon.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Can we discuss it in Heaven, Lynn?

I'm sure there will be plenty of people saying "man.....l was way off"
Others might say....."see, .....l kind of told you, so"

It could get tiring, makes you hope there's some technology in heaven, like little micro recorders you can wear on your heavenly lapel, where you could push a button and a prerecorded, "I told you so!" would play.

Anyway, end time philosophy? Like Marx or Nietzsche? Isn't philosophy on the order of capitalism bad, collective farm good? Or evil ubermensch good, common decent man bad? Seems there either is an end times, or not, but the end times an historical period, something fact based. But I would agree there's no end times in the Bible, if you rip a lot of pages from the Old and New Testaments. Would make your Bible lighter, could maybe store a sandwich in it, for road trips.

 

[Reborn]

It could get tiring, makes you hope there's some technology in heaven, like little micro recorders you can wear on your heavenly lapel, where you could push a button and a prerecorded, "I told you so!" would play.

Anyway, end time philosophy? Like Marx or Nietzsche? Isn't philosophy on the order of capitalism bad, collective farm good? Or evil ubermensch good, common decent man bad? Seems there either is an end times, or not, but the end times an historical period, something fact based. But I would agree there's no end times in the Bible, if you rip a lot of pages from the Old and New Testaments. Would make your Bible lighter, could maybe store a sandwich in it, for road trips.

Yes.
I have plenty to add on the end times.

But l won't.....,Who'd believe me anyway?
It would get lost in the millions of other end time theories anyway.

What happens/will happen in the end times , really boils down to individual opinions. Opinions can't be taught as fact.
I have peace of mind on a timeline, and as long as anyone does....or is content with not having one..then l guess no one can take that from us.

We can never get anyone to believe that the sky is falling......even if its pouring down on their heads.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Yes.
I have plenty to add on the end times.

But l won't.....,Who'd believe me anyway?
It would get lost in the millions of other end time theories anyway.

What happens/will happen in the end times , really boils down to individual opinions. Opinions can't be taught as fact.
I have peace of mind on a timeline, and as long as anyone does....or is content with not having one..then l guess no one can take that from us.

We can never get anyone to believe that the sky is falling......even if its pouring down on their heads.

It would be nice to not have this mindset of getting anybody to believe anything, anyway, as you point out this not a successful course. I don't care what anybody believes, bottom line, would rather simply discuss some things with somebody who's done some real study, don't even like this battle of pulp exegesis going on, parroting some TV show, website or hot book. But there's a dearth of scholarly discussion of some things. I've always been of the mind, regarding eschatology, and this is absolutely true, there are some matters where you only have a most plausible explanation, which do go to opinion. On the other hand, you'd be surprised how much agreement there is on a wide range of matters between Spirit-filled scholars, and it's a subject where many heads are better than one, with some wondrous insights to behold, when one sees consensus emerging.

It's a shame it's made a circus of, something requiring a very systematic theological approach of scripture harmony, and this something very few people have an interest in, being research intensive and slow going to put some things together. There's a lot of exploitation of this laziness, too, to the tune of best seller, sensational books, of no sound basis, but which people take as truth, and, in turn, spread all over the web. There are these "flavors of the month," like, lately, the Islamic antichrist, which actually makes no sense and is not Biblical, and a mistake to start stuffing any old news story into prophecy, which history of this stuff amply proves. It really is a shame, though, as these things are fascinating, explored as a seminarian would.

 

[Gr8grace]

true,

But I would not call the church a brighter light, if we actually look at the history of the church, and history of Israel. They almost look identical. The names, terms and laws may have changed, the ceremony and ritual may have changed, But the excuses, the deception, The misinformation. The adding laws which are not given by God and making them equal with scripture. The severe hatred of anyone not of them. The short amount of time in which it was perverted to be unrecognizable of what God intended etc etc. All look the same.

Israel could not get it with the priesthood. The church (gentile) could not get it with the preists and bishops and whatever. Time for Christ to come down and show both alike how he intended it to be. Oh what a glorious day that will be.

But like Isreal and there rejection of Christs first advent, because they had it all together. the church thiks it has it all together so reject his second advent.

It is interesting how history repeats itself. We look a lot like like Israel. Israel was split and divided, but Israel was still Israel.

The gentiles and the church is the same. We may think that we are "split" from Rome. But we still are an "extension" of Rome.

 

[prove-all]

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep,
all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets,
and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar
what shall be in the (latter days)” (Daniel 2:28)


8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things?
9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are
(closed up and sealed till the time of the end).


4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book,
even to the time of the end:


many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[atwhatcost]

Matters little what you think. God will be true and every man a liar by comparison.

Given the description of the great tribulation it is not possible that it is a past event. Preterism seems quite silly to me. There is a lot of really big stuff yet to come to pass. Billions of people dying and stars falling from the heavens will be quite noteworthy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"For the case in Christ" or "For the cause in Roger?" Honestly, I was letting people know not everyone agrees. You, however, in your infinite wisdom and knowledge have dubbed what I think irrelevant and what you think absolute gospel.

So much for "in Christ." How is that perfect ivory tower where you alone know truth?

 

[atwhatcost]

What is "end times philosophy"?

Well, here's the definition of philosophy. I'm guessing you understood "End Times," right?

My point was to just let people know some of us don't believe it. And since I hear too often here "As we all believe" I was really just letting people know even that can't be a "we" that all Christians believe.

This isn't supposed to be a complete comparison, since I do believe Christians are about as opposite of Hollywood as one can get, but it does remind me of Hollywood in a way. Hollywood seems absolutely convinced that most people naturally agree that easy sex, the modern rules for dating ("Sleep together on the third date"), PCism, and homosexual "lifestyle" is just how everyone thinks. That true is not true, and I'd love to wake them up on that one, but, yo, not like Hollywood listens to "evil Christians," so no telling them that.

BUT, since most Christians are open to truly listening to someone, so I figured they'd like to know even we don't agree with these things, but that's okay. It doesn't make us not-brothers. Just different opinions on that not so important stuff.

 

[atwhatcost]

The tribulation that man endures now is tribulation - man against man. The GREAT tribulation is God's tribulation upon man.

I do believe in the "gathering together" of the church, the body of Christ and I do look forward to it as it is our hope.

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ!!!!!!
[/SIZE]

Okay. Honest. I already found out we disagree on that, but it's not like that stops us from being sisters in Christ.

 

[atwhatcost]

'

Amen and God turning the world upside down and making a man (singular) more precious than fine gold....not to mention the sun and moon not giving their light.......and the heavens being ripped open to reveal the face of the one who sits on the throne to only have the majority of people hide in the dens and caves of the earth while praying for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from said face......

Just checking, are you also amening "Matters little what you think?" I already knew we disagree on this stuff. But if I matter so little to you, then that's a different story.

 

[atwhatcost]

I do agree with some of the others that have responded so far to a point.......

As the descriptions given for the Great Tribulation period can not be a past fulfilled event, because for example one of the descriptions says it will be the worse time ever and will not be a time worse then it. We have already had many worse events since 70 AD, and WW2 and the Holocaust does not fit either.

Revelation clearly shows us that the Lord returns at the very end of the GT and casts the man of sin and false prophet into the lake of fire. The Lord has not returned yet, and nowhere does it say there is a big gap between the end of the GT and His return.

The parts that I differ though is that the GT is not God's wrath/tribulation on man.
The GT is when the man of sin is persecuting and killing Jews and Christians, and God's wrath is then poured out at the end of the GT on the man of sin and false prophet and those who follow them.

The bible does clearly speak of a gathering together of believers with the Lord, however Apostle Paul tells us the falling away (church apostasy) and the man of sin being revealed has to come first. The apostasy is happening, but the man of sin has not been revealed yet. The bible gives us where to look at for him to arise from (Turkey: Revelation 2:13,13:2), and that everybody will know for sure when he stands in the temple and claims to be God.

No temple built yet, therefore this prophecy can not be fulfilled, and it was not done in 70 AD either..................

This thread isn't about running down this same debate again, in all its variations. I'm saying that "As we know all of us believe" on stuff like this simply isn't true. I honestly don't care about any of those beliefs, but that's not the same as not caring about my bros.

 

[atwhatcost]

I thought you guys actually "read" the Bible. (Well, some of you) Where do you keep coming up with repeating that manmade invention of "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" as though it is a specific event? It's not in the Bible. All we were told is that there was going to be a few years of really bad trouble.

Actually, the beginning of it and the hope of God wins is very much in the Bible. It started in 70 A.D., so some of what was said was to counter the real fear the Christians would all be wiped out. Much of what Revelation is about (including the great finale -- God wins.) And even that bit where one man is standing in the field and the other is taken away truly happened often. The one standing in the field, renounced Christ. The one taken away didn't, so he would be killed. Jesus knew this would happen so he braced the folks it wold happen to.

 

[atwhatcost]

Given that attitude, I wonder why you felt the need to tell us in the first place. I think you're completely off-base with your second-century "tribulation" theory, but I'm not going to let that bother me or let it come between our fellowship.

It's about Christ, and Him crucified.

You're kinda like the weather guys interrupting my "program" to tell me about hail 150 miles from me. When it gets here, I'll worry. Until then, leave me alone. Run a crawl on my screen.

That's why, because I know the mature folks will know it doesn't affect our relationship simply because we diagree on this one. I wanted people to know that.

And thanks for laughing at my groaner. Most just groan at my jokes. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

Can we discuss it in Heaven, Lynn?

I'm sure there will be plenty of people saying "man.....l was way off"
Others might say....."see, .....l kind of told you, so"

It won't matter by then.
I have no thoughts on the end times.

Now, if you'll excuse me l have to go prep my bunker, somethings on the horizon.

I suspect 100% of us will say, "Ah, man! That's not how I thought it would happen!" Of course, I get that because that's the same thing that happens when God answers my prayers. I always think he's going to do that in a different way.

 

[crossnote]

Well, here's the definition of philosophy. I'm guessing you understood "End Times," right?

My point was to just let people know some of us don't believe it. And since I hear too often here "As we all believe" I was really just letting people know even that can't be a "we" that all Christians believe.

This isn't supposed to be a complete comparison, since I do believe Christians are about as opposite of Hollywood as one can get, but it does remind me of Hollywood in a way. Hollywood seems absolutely convinced that most people naturally agree that easy sex, the modern rules for dating ("Sleep together on the third date"), PCism, and homosexual "lifestyle" is just how everyone thinks. That true is not true, and I'd love to wake them up on that one, but, yo, not like Hollywood listens to "evil Christians," so no telling them that.

BUT, since most Christians are open to truly listening to someone, so I figured they'd like to know even we don't agree with these things, but that's okay. It doesn't make us not-brothers. Just different opinions on that not so important stuff.

"Sleep together on the third date"??
Boy, that sure dates you. (forgive the word play)

 

[atwhatcost]

"Sleep together on the third date"??
Boy, that sure dates you. (forgive the word play)

Nah, I'm much older than that. My generation believed marry first. Well, they did until college, and even there six out of seven of us still believed that and the seventh was engaged but not waiting. (Somehow it as okay, since he was the only guy she would ever sleep with.)

The third date was from the times of Friends the comedy. Of course, they believed it, but not enough to wait that long.

 

[dcontroversal]

so when jesus said there will be great tribulation. such as never seen before or ever, and that if he did not return to put a stop to it. all flesh would die. this is not an event?

AMEN and not to mention when Michael stands to defend Israel when there will be a time of TROUBLE such as never was since there was a NATION..EVEN UNTO THAT SAME TIME.......the one where as describe in the N.T. that is JESUS does not directly INTERVENE there will be NO FLESH left alive......I guess that is the difference between just reading the bible and actually reading and BELIEVING the bible!