Is a life without sinning possible?

[Utah]

Dear Utah:

See, the difference between us is that you and others here make an allowance for evil with the thinking God will just turn a blind eye to it. Whereas I do not. If sin does arise in a believer's life they are sorrowful over that sin (In a Godly way) and they confess that sin with the intention they will never do it again. They ask God to help them to stop or to overcome that sin. They do not stay down in the mud defeated in sin. For sin shall not have dominion over a true believer (Romans 6:14). God's people always strive to do good and to remain pure and holy in the Lord and they do not make excuses that their sin is automatically paid for (So then they can get away with doing a little bit of sin on the side while also having their keys to the Kingdom).

I will simply allow Jesus to speak for me.

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

[Jason0047]

I will simply allow Jesus to speak for me.

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

The problem with the Pharisee is that he did not confess his sins. That is the same problem that many (not all) OSAS proponents have today. They believe all future sin is forgiven them, so there is no need to confess sins or cry out to God to have mercy on them. Another problem with the Pharisee is that he thought he was better than the Tax Collector. He was not humble before God. He was thinking he was better than another person. This is not Biblical. In certain cases: We cannot know a person's walk and life to completely judge it. But if a person does sin openly, or they admit that they do sin (with no remorse or desire to change), then Christians can use the Word of God to reprove and correct them. For Paul says, do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, reprove them. It doesn't make any sense to reprove the unfruitful works of darkness if one is committing unfruitful works of darkness themselves. Jesus said we can judge righteous Judgment. Jesus also said we are to be Holy and perfect. Paul asked, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's reply to that question was: "God forbid." Meaning you can't continue in sin.

 

[Jason0047]

Also, Luke 18:9-14 has to be looked at in light of the rest of Scripture. God calls us to be holy and righteous and He does not call us to remain in our sins. Remember, Jesus said, he that sins is a slave to sin. Now it is true, a person can have mercy if they struggle with sin and they confess it like the Tax Collector, but if one does not feel they have to worry about sin and or they need to overcome sin because it was all paid magically somehow will become cold and hard to sin in their life. There will be no reason to put away sin. Chastisement? What for? No OSAS proponent actually believes that they will stop in their sinning.

 

[Jason0047]

Your descriptions of people who sin without remorse makes me think of mafia guys who attend mass every Sunday, but in between Sundays they break legs and kill. I don't see much repenting, there. However, this does not exemplify the common Christian who knows they will always fall short but lean thankfully on Jesus' saving grace.

On another note, I personally have never met anyone who desires to sin only a little, yet has no desire to repent at all. The combination simply does not exist within Christendom for those who rely on Jesus' saving grace.

One is a rebellioius mafia thug, if they think they can sin and still be saved. It is just as serious to God if you lie and or you look upon women in lust and then refuse to repent of it just as it is just as serious as a mafia man who seeks to kill and or to break people's heads open with a baseball bat. They are all sins that lead unto death (Galatians 5:19-21) or sins that lead unto the Second DEATH (Revelation 21:8).

 

[Jason0047]

For if one says they will forever sin, they are making an allowance for sin to be in their life. They have chosen to be a bad who is a slave to their sin or wrong doing. Just as a mafia man has chosen his life of wrong doing.

 

[Utah]

The problem with the Pharisee is that he did not confess his sins. That is the same problem that many (not all) OSAS proponents have today. They believe all future sin is forgiven them, so there is no need to confess sins or cry out to God to have mercy on them.

Jason, who are these people of whom you speak? I know of no people who understand we are saved once and for all, yet thumb their noses at God's grace by never repenting. Seriously, who?

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, who are these people of whom you speak? I know of no people who understand we are saved once and for all, yet thumb their noses at God's grace by never repenting. Seriously, who?

Usually a statement like this is made so as not to deal with the Scriptures I brought up and or to make your side seem like it is good, when it is not. Many here believe you do not have to confess sin in order to be forgiven. Many here believe in Positional Righteousness. That it is not on the basis of how they live that determines their salvation. So it wouldn't matter if they lived in a little bit of sin. They still will be saved. For many believe future sin is forgiven them. Most here believe you can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. Being out of fellowship with God implies one is sinning.

See this thread here on those who voted in favor of being out of fellowship with God with the thinking they are saved:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/105849-can-you-out-fellowship-god-still-saved.html

 

[Jason0047]

Also, everyone here has admitted that they will never be able to stop sinning. That is claiming one cannot help in being evil. It makes an excuse for sin.

For it wouldn't even matter if you confessed such a sin; You really would have no real remorse over the evil you are doing because you might just plan on doing it again because you are saying to yourself that you will forever be a slave to your sin.

 

[Sirk]

Also, everyone here has admitted that they will never be able to stop sinning. That is claiming one cannot help in being evil. It makes an excuse for sin.

"Everyone has admitted they will never be able to stop sinning".....I think you just exaggerated. Is exaggeration a sin?

 

[Utah]

Many here believe you do not have to confess sin

Many who? Gimme names.

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, it's like the man who cheats on his wife and he tells her he is sorry that he has cheated on her so much, but then he later claims that he never will be able to cheating on her, though. Is he truly sorry about his sin? No. He is not truly saying he is sorry to her if he doesn't stop (And admit to that fact).

 

[dcontroversal]

Jason, who are these people of whom you speak? I know of no people who understand we are saved once and for all, yet thumb their noses at God's grace by never repenting. Seriously, who?

No doubt......blind leaders of the blind they are........and exceptionally dense with no ability to understand the truth......! They continually propagate that lie so as to make their working for salvation lite heretical message seem to be full of light.....pure darkness and no ability to save........

 

[Sirk]

In other words, it's like the man who cheats on his wife and he tells her he is sorry that he has cheated on her so much, but then he later claims that he never will be able to cheating on her, though. Is he truly sorry about his sin? No. He is not truly saying he is sorry to her if he doesn't stop (And admit to that fact).

It has to be said.

 

[Utah]

No doubt......blind leaders of the blind they are........and exceptionally dense with no ability to understand the truth......! They continually propagate that lie so as to make their working for salvation lite heretical message seem to be full of light.....pure darkness and no ability to save........

And a very sad Amen to this. It truly is heartbreaking.

 

[Jason0047]

Many who? Gimme names.

You can read the previous thread link I gave you or read this one and you can discover those people for yourself.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...misunderstood-part-bible-1-john-1-8-19-a.html

They say the sin in 1 John 1:9 is the forgivenss of physical sin (Which deals with fellowship) and that such a verse is not dealing with spiritual sin (Which relates to salvation). This is the error that was propogated by Augustine (Who was a Catholic priest). That somehow sins in the flesh because of their sin nature and yet their sins are paid for in the spirit side of them.

 

[Jason0047]

They believe one sins differently in the flesh than say in the spirit. Yet, the Bible makes no such distinction. Sin effects us both spiritually and physically.

 

[Jason0047]

For it is their wrong interpretation on 1 John 1:8. For they say they have sin on a physical level, but yet on a spiritual level, their sin is paid for, past, present, and future. It's "Postional Righteousness." This is evil and wrong.

Yet, 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren against those false believers who trying to deceive the brethren who believed that sin did not exist for them. John gives us the solution that if sin does arise in a believer's life, they are to confess those sins as per 1 John 1:9. No doubt something the false believers at that time did not feel they had to do as a requirement for salvation. The same truth holds true today for many OSAS proponents. They do not believe they have to confess or forsake sin in order to be saved (See 1 John 1:7, and 1 John 1:9).

 

[Jason0047]

It has to be said.

*Picture Image*

But everyone's message here is no different than the man who is cheating on his wife. The only difference is that they are cheating on God instead. They believe they will forever cheat or sin on God even though they really do not mean to do so. Such a claim is neither Biblical nor does it line up with any sense of common basic morality that we know about.

 

[notuptome]

For it is their wrong interpretation on 1 John 1:8. For they say they have sin on a physical level, but yet on a spiritual level, their sin is paid for, past, present, and future. It's "Postional Righteousness." This is evil and wrong.

The evil and wrong here is your position. Saved folks have a present possession of a future inheritance. I cannot say what you have but it doesn't sound like or act like biblical salvation.

Yet, 1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren against those false believers who trying to deceive the brethren who believed that sin did not exist for them. John gives us the solution that if sin does arise in a believer's life, they are to confess those sins as per 1 John 1:9. No doubt something the false believers at that time did not feel they had to do as a requirement for salvation. The same truth holds true today for many OSAS proponents. They do not believe they have to confess or forsake sin in order to be saved (See 1 John 1:7, and 1 John 1:9).

You would do well to tell us what you believe instead of telling what you think others believe. OSAS is nothing like you would have folks to believe. You demonize sound doctrine to promote your own teaching.

Your warnings only serve to expose yourself as a charlatan. The kind the bible says creep into widows houses and carry them away laden with silly lusts. 2 Tim 3:6

You have obfuscated the simple gospel of the grace of God. You show forth an unbelieving heart. Unable or unwilling to believe in salvation by grace wholly apart from works. A salvation that depends on the Savior alone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Sirk]

But everyone's message here is no different than the man who is cheating on his wife. The only difference is that they are cheating on God instead. They believe they will forever cheat or sin on God even though they really do not mean to do so. Such a claim is neither Biblical nor does it line up with any sense of common basic morality that we know about.

[video=youtube;mlv7Bp-L2MM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlv7Bp-L2MM[/video]