Is a life without sinning possible?

[notuptome]

But everyone's message here is no different than the man who is cheating on his wife. The only difference is that they are cheating on God instead. They believe they will forever cheat or sin on God even though they really do not mean to do so. Such a claim is neither Biblical nor does it line up with any sense of common basic morality that we know about.

Instead of using this analogy to stir up strife and disagreement why don't you study 1 Cor 5 and see that Paul left it up to God to deal with a professing Christian in open sin. Perhaps you are better than Paul to judge in Gods place on the matter. One of the five "I wills" of Lucifer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

The evil and wrong here is your position. Saved folks have a present possession of a future inheritance. I cannot say what you have but it doesn't sound like or act like biblical salvation.

First, I believe God does the work in the believer's life. It is not my righteousness but God's righteousness. Surely you must know this by all the conversations I have had on this topic.

Second, I would like for you to be open and honest with me and answer a few questions for me.

Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin (like lying, hating, looking at women lustfully) and still be saved?
Do you believe future sin is forgiven? If so, how do you prevent others who hear such a message in running off and easily misunderstanding you to take that as a license to sin?
Do you believe you will ever stop sinning or to turn from your wicked ways? Does this line up with what Jesus taught on repentance in regards to the Ninevites and Jonah chapter 3?
Do you believe you can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved?
Do you believe in some cases you sin in the flesh and yet you somehow do not sin in the spirit because Jesus paid the price for all your sin?

You would do well to tell us what you believe instead of telling what you think others believe. OSAS is nothing like you would have folks to believe. You demonize sound doctrine to promote your own teaching.

I am only saying what others here have said in regards to OSAS. The fact that you can't see it, makes me believe you hold to something similar.

Your warnings only serve to expose yourself as a charlatan. The kind the bible says creep into widows houses and carry them away laden with silly lusts. 2 Tim 3:6

Why would someone who seeks to honor God's commands want to break them? Are you trying to falsely accuse me?

You have obfuscated the simple gospel of the grace of God. You show forth an unbelieving heart. Unable or unwilling to believe in salvation by grace wholly apart from works. A salvation that depends on the Savior alone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And here is where the cat is out of the bag. You believe in a wrong view of salvation. You believe in Positional Righteousness. That you do not have to live a righteous life and yet you can still be saved. That you don't have to have no works. But James said faith without works is dead. This is not your works but the works of God done in the believer.

 

[Jason0047]

Instead of using this analogy to stir up strife and disagreement why don't you study 1 Cor 5 and see that Paul left it up to God to deal with a professing Christian in open sin. Perhaps you are better than Paul to judge in Gods place on the matter. One of the five "I wills" of Lucifer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The ironic thing is that you have chosen a chapter that easily refutes your belief. 1 Corinthians 5 deals with sexual immorality and how we are not to have company with fornicators. If one is expelled from the body of Christ, they are not apart of the body anymore and saved. So it is not dealing with just a loss of fellowship alone but it is a salvation issue, too. For we are commanded not to forsake fellowship.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul here is talking to believers and he says for them to be NOT deceived that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[Malcyboy]

The ironic thing is that you have chosen a chapter that easily refutes your belief. 1 Corinthians 5 deals sexual immorality and how we are not to have company with fornicators. If one is expelled from the body of Christ, they are not apart of the body anymore and saved. So it is not dealing with just a loss of fellowship alone but it is a salvation issue, too. For we are commanded not to forsake fellowship.

Im not overly involved in this arguement, but your comment irked me big time, the forsaking of fellowship does not refer to the loss of salvation - it refers to a physical gathering of brethern. I.e if you refuse to be among the family of Christ. However the arguement of "if you're removed from church then you're no longer saved" is a lot of rubbish and totally unscriptural. Read 2 corinthians in the reference to the son and mother scenario, Paul told them to welcome them back to the fold as so that they wouldn't despair their souls, not so that they could be re-saved.

 

[Jason0047]

Im not overly involved in this arguement, but your comment irked me big time, the forsaking of fellowship does not refer to the loss of salvation - it refers to a physical gathering of brethern. I.e if you refuse to be among the family of Christ. However the arguement of "if you're removed from church then you're no longer saved" is a lot of rubbish and totally unscriptural. Read 2 corinthians in the reference to the son and mother scenario, Paul told them to welcome them back to the fold as so that they wouldn't despair their souls, not so that they could be re-saved.

No. Read 2 Corinthians 7:10, the end of 2 Corinthians 12, and 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Also, 1 Corithians 6:9-10 is in view to 1 Corinthians 5. Paul is talking to believers and he says to them to:

1. Be not deceived.
2. The unrightous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Meaning, one cannot be deceived into the thinking the unrighteous will inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[Malcyboy]

When did we say the unrighteous inherited the kingdom? I am righteous through Christ, not by deeds. You're arguement of "when I sin I repent and aim to never do again, but if I do, I will repent again" is no different to anyone elses arguement, you're merely acting pious about it. Christ never expected us to be perfect on our own, He told us, all the law rests up on His two commandments, which are to love God and to love people. If sin gets in the way, put it aside and keep going. But certainly my focus is far from sin, its totally on God

 

[notuptome]

First, I believe God does the work in the believer's life. It is not my righteousness but God's righteousness. Surely you must know this by all the conversations I have had on this topic.

Your "conversations" are notoriously one sided. All talk no listen.

Second, I would like for you to be open and honest with me and answer a few questions for me.

Do you believe you can die in unrepentant sin (like lying, hating, looking at women lustfully) and still be saved?

Very likely.

Do you believe future sin is forgiven? If so, how do you prevent others who hear such a message in running off and easily misunderstanding you to take that as a license to sin?

Not my job to prevent them from doing anything. They are the Lords and He will minister to them as He sees fit. I am not God. Something you should consider about yourself.

Do you believe you will ever stop sinning or to turn from your wicked ways? Does this line up with what Jesus taught on repentance in regards to the Ninevites and Jonah chapter 3?

Foolish question. I am a new creature in Christ. I am created in Christ to do the work He has for me.

Do you believe you can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved?

No question. Sanctification is not a nullifier of salvation.

Do you believe in some cases you sin in the flesh and yet you somehow do not sin in the spirit because Jesus paid the price for all your sin?

The Word of God is quick and powerful a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart sharper than any two edged sword dividing asunder the soul and the spirit.

I am only saying what others here have said in regards to OSAS. The fact that you can't see it, makes me believe you hold to something similar.

If you knew of salvation by grace you would not make such unwise accusations about the salvation God gifts by grace to those who trust Christ.

Why would someone who seeks to honor God's commands want to break them? Are you trying to falsely accuse me?

You accuse yourself. Your pretentious self righteousness reveals that you cannot trust Christ to save you. You insist on wrenching your salvation from Christ and doing it yourself.

And here is where the cat is out of the bag. You believe in a wrong view of salvation. You believe in Positional Righteousness. That you do not have to live a righteous life and yet you can still be saved. That you don't have to have no works. But James said faith without works is dead. This is not your works but the works of God done in the believer.

You accuse me of doing what you would do not what I am doing. I live for my Lord according to the leading of the Holy Spirit and the dictates of my heart. Only a fool would suppose to judge the heart of another man in the stead of God.

You continue to demonstrate that you say you trust but your actions tell a completely opposite story. You trust you more than your trust Christ.

Put your proof text in James into biblical context and you will see that you are forcing a conflict where none exists.

Please cease from attempting to usurp the authority and position of God. Lucifer said I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. Isaiah 14:13-14

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem with the Pharisee is that he did not confess his sins. That is the same problem that many (not all) OSAS proponents have today. They believe all future sin is forgiven them, so there is no need to confess sins or cry out to God to have mercy on them. Another problem with the Pharisee is that he thought he was better than the Tax Collector. He was not humble before God. He was thinking he was better than another person. This is not Biblical. In certain cases: We cannot know a person's walk and life to completely judge it. But if a person does sin openly, or they admit that they do sin (with no remorse or desire to change), then Christians can use the Word of God to reprove and correct them. For Paul says, do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, reprove them. It doesn't make any sense to reprove the unfruitful works of darkness if one is committing unfruitful works of darkness themselves. Jesus said we can judge righteous Judgment. Jesus also said we are to be Holy and perfect. Paul asked, shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's reply to that question was: "God forbid." Meaning you can't continue in sin.

No, the problem with the pharisee is he did not think he sinned, and if he did, it was just a mess up.

They focused on the things like washing their hands ceremonially, and their pet sins, and totally ignored their real sins, Which is why they did not need Jesus, if I am not a sinner, and I obey the law, I do not need a savior.

Sounds alot like you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jason, who are these people of whom you speak? I know of no people who understand we are saved once and for all, yet thumb their noses at God's grace by never repenting. Seriously, who?

he will give you a few people he knew, of course people who we can not speak to to find out if they really believe this way.

So probably no one. or one of the few licentious people which are in every city.

He works of the ends justified the means theology. If someone CAN do it because of a perceived doctrinal truth. then everyone who believes in it must also do it.

 

[notuptome]

The ironic thing is that you have chosen a chapter that easily refutes your belief. 1 Corinthians 5 deals with sexual immorality and how we are not to have company with fornicators. If one is expelled from the body of Christ, they are not apart of the body anymore and saved. So it is not dealing with just a loss of fellowship alone but it is a salvation issue, too. For we are commanded not to forsake fellowship.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul here is talking to believers and he says for them to be NOT deceived that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

There is no irony in that you get it wrong. Paul never stated that the man was lost as a result of this sin. Paul said set him apart and let God judge him. Even to the destruction of his flesh. Note not his spirit but his flesh.

1 Cor 6:11 refocuses your improper application of the scripture. You cannot make Gods word your instrument of judgment upon your fellow man. God alone is judge and you are not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

When did we say the unrighteous inherited the kingdom? I am righteous through Christ, not by deeds. You're arguement of "when I sin I repent and aim to never do again, but if I do, I will repent again" is no different to anyone elses arguement, you're merely acting pious about it. Christ never expected us to be perfect on our own, He told us, all the law rests up on His two commandments, which are to love God and to love people. If sin gets in the way, put it aside and keep going. But certainly my focus is far from sin, its totally on God

Wow. Nowhere does Paul ever say that one can have mental acknowledgment in order to remain righteous while they work sin or unrighteousness. Again, you are not reading and believing 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. It says.... be not deceived....(Paul is talking to believers).... the unrighteousess shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Then Paul lists various sins that are attached to not inheriting the kingdom. Paul does not make any exception for the believer here. For he is talking to the believer because only believers can be deceived into falling into sin. Unbelievers are already deceived and doing those kinds of sins already.

 

[Jason0047]

There is no irony in that you get it wrong. Paul never stated that the man was lost as a result of this sin. Paul said set him apart and let God judge him. Even to the destruction of his flesh. Note not his spirit but his flesh.

You are leaving out a crucial detail. The destruction of the flesh was sooooo... that his spirit could be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. So his spirit still needed saving. (See 1 Corinthians 5:5).

1 Cor 6:11 refocuses your improper application of the scripture. You cannot make Gods word your instrument of judgment upon your fellow man. God alone is judge and you are not.

Verse 11 in no way supports your view. It is saying that we used to be sinners in the past, but we are not that way anymore. Again, who is Paul talking to in verses 9-10? Unbelievers? No. New converts? Well, if it is new converts that it is the foundation by which seasoned believers are to do, as well.

 

[Malcyboy]

I have no time to argue with you lol all you ever do is beat around the same bush, "

 

[Jason0047]

No, the problem with the pharisee is he did not think he sinned, and if he did, it was just a mess up.

They focused on the things like washing their hands ceremonially, and their pet sins, and totally ignored their real sins, Which is why they did not need Jesus, if I am not a sinner, and I obey the law, I do not need a savior.

Sounds alot like you

Okay, now you are just accusing me falsely. Wherein did I say I did not need a Savior? Jesus saves me in Justification, Sanctification, and in Glorification. Yet, everyone here denies the Sanctification process that Christ is supposed to do in a believer's life. They think it is optional.

Also, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe Christ does the good work in me. So you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Jason0047]

I have no time to argue with you lol all you ever do is beat around the same bush, "

Well, when you do have time and you do want to be honest with what the Scriptures are plainly saying, I will try to be here for you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay, now you are just accusing me falsely. Wherein did I say I did not need a Savior? Jesus saves me in Justification, Sanctification, and in Glorification. Yet, everyone here denies the Sanctification process that Christ is supposed to do in a believer's life. They think it is optional.

Also, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe Christ does the good work in me. So you are barking up the wrong tree.

No, I am barking up the right tree.

We teach justification sanctification and glorification. we just realise they are differing events. You place them all in one lump sum.

Ad yes you do preach a works based gospel. You claim one must work to stop sin, or they are lost. they must work to remember every sin they commit, and repent, or they are lost. they must work to make themselves holy and righteous, or they will not be saved.

You not only do not know what the bible says, you do not know what you teach.

 

[ember]

Your descriptions of people who sin without remorse makes me think of mafia guys who attend mass every Sunday, but in between Sundays they break legs and kill. I don't see much repenting, there. However, this does not exemplify the common Christian who knows they will always fall short but lean thankfully on Jesus' saving grace.

On another note, I personally have never met anyone who desires to sin only a little, yet has no desire to repent at all. The combination simply does not exist within Christendom for those who rely on Jesus' saving grace.

This is the ole 'watch me pull a sin out of my hat' trick...and it is the only trick Jason has. He will never acknowledge that myself and others have said that we do not live in sin but we recognize that we wil sin at some time because no one has ever been able to live without sin BUT we ask for forgiveness and move on

Jason will never acknowledge that because if he does, there will be no more bunny to pull out of the hat

No one has ever said they think they can continue to sin on purpose or any other way. However, that has never been acknowledged and I guess if the past is any indicator of the future, well, you don't need Dr Phil to shrug and look tired

All roads lead to sin unless you agree with Jason.

Too bad the Spanish Inquisition is over...he would have excelled in getting someone to admit to false accusations just so the torture would stop

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Honestly, at this point I think we're arguing semantics.
We all accept that we cannot be 100% sinless. Sinless perfection is not possible when we live in flesh bodies.

What Jason said was that there are three things that happen as part of our born again life.
1) Salvation/Justification (one point in time)
2) Sanctification (lifelong process)
3) Glorification (one point in time - receive glorified bodies)

Glorification is the point where we do lose our flesh bodies, the very same flesh bodies that war against the Spirit.
Being conformed to Christ by resisting temptation and sin is part of the Sanctification process.
Exercising discernment is part of the Sanctification process
Bearing our cross and standing in Christ's truth is part of the Sanctification process
God's chastisement, correction, and pruning, are part of the Sanctification process
Living a life of obedience is part of the Sanctification process

I am having a hard time understanding why such enmity and strife are present here.

 

[dcontroversal]

Im not overly involved in this arguement, but your comment irked me big time, the forsaking of fellowship does not refer to the loss of salvation - it refers to a physical gathering of brethern. I.e if you refuse to be among the family of Christ. However the arguement of "if you're removed from church then you're no longer saved" is a lot of rubbish and totally unscriptural. Read 2 corinthians in the reference to the son and mother scenario, Paul told them to welcome them back to the fold as so that they wouldn't despair their souls, not so that they could be re-saved.

Amen and the very chapter that he erroneously uses to try and prove the loss of salvation actually proves eternal security as the fornicator's spirit is SAVED in the Day of Jesus Christ...not lost......blind to the truth he is!

 

[dcontroversal]

No, I am barking up the right tree.

We teach justification sanctification and glorification. we just realise they are differing events. You place them all in one lump sum.

Ad yes you do preach a works based gospel. You claim one must work to stop sin, or they are lost. they must work to remember every sin they commit, and repent, or they are lost. they must work to make themselves holy and righteous, or they will not be saved.

You not only do not know what the bible says, you do not know what you teach.

Amen to that...I agree and for sure he propagates a works based false gospel......no matter how he slices and dices......and a false premise on being sinless as well.......!