When does the rapture occur?

[PlainWord]

Your admission sets you way back in your powers of understanding of eschatological scripture.

Really?? How so?? You already admitted that you think Christ comes back twice and God once. When do you have God coming back relative to the 2 comings of Christ?

...even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

This is GOD THE FATHER coming my dear sister. Sorry if you disagree with the text unless you have God making multiple trips ferrying people back and forth too?

 

[flob]

God is in Christ. God is Christ.
Zech 14:3-4; Acts 1:9-12; Dan 7:13-14, 22;
Isa 7:14; 9:6; Jn 1:1-2; 10:30, 38; Rv 1:8; 22:12-16;
etc

 

[VCO]

I agree the wedding FEAST takes place after Jesus' Return (ending Tribulation) to establish His Millennial Kingdom. That is not the marriage. The Bride is removed from the Earth in order to attend her wedding to the Bridegroom, and will arrive with Him to her new marital home---Jerusalem.

The Wedding is traditionally held in the house of the Father of the Bridegroom, unless it was not large enough. I do not think the size of the House will be a problem in Our Heavenly Father's House. The Wedding Chamber is the New City Jerusalem, the Bride and her Bridegroom will honeymoon.

 

[VCO]

I already researched it.

You haven't or you would not have shot those blanks .

Hint;look up recieving the HS as a second work,and how those that asked got it.

Surprise, it has NOTHING to do with the modern day ​speaking in tongues.

 

[VCO]

Really?? How so?? You already admitted that you think Christ comes back twice and God once. When do you have God coming back relative to the 2 comings of Christ?

...even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

This is GOD THE FATHER coming my dear sister. Sorry if you disagree with the text unless you have God making multiple trips ferrying people back and forth too?

I REPEAT for at least the fourth time, AN APPEARING IS NOT A COMING. He appeared to at least 3 people, after HIS resurrection and ascension. Your theory leaks like a sieve. This time you can look the verses up.

 

[VCO]

"Who is it - that you think is included in 'us' - that will be at Armageddon...???"

WRONG, that is the pre-trib calling out of the BRIDE to go to the WEDDING OF THE LAMB.

 

[VCO]

@ 3;00 the bride and groom drink the wine.

According to Jesus himself the wedding/feast/consumation will be in heaven,during the GT

Look it up again, the Wedding Supper come after the Seven Day Honeymoon, in the Wedding Chamber.

 

[VCO]

That is not correct as the bible clearly shows in Acts that not all believers receive the Holy Spirit (Spiritual baptism) when they first believe.

Apostle Peter shows this in Acts 2:38, for those he is talking to there he tells them to repent and be water baptized first then they will receive the Holy Spirit. Peter puts repentance and water baptism before the receiving of the Holy Spirit in this verse to these believers.
These believers already established their belief after hearing the word of the gospel by Peter, but Peter then shows to receive the Holy Spirit they then needed to repent and be water baptized in Jesus name.

We can not take and place the Holy Spirit as received at minute one of belief for all believers, because the bible does not even show that standard. Some did receive the Spirit first, but others did not !!!!

Climbing into a Baptistry or Mikvah is a work, and Salvation is by GRACE and NOT by works.

 

[VCO]

Truth is, nobody has a verse that discusses the "rapture" in relation to timing of the GT. The verses that discuss the "rapture" are of course 1 Thes 4:13-17 and 1 Cor 15:50-52. You will find in 1 Thes 4:14 that it is GOD THE FATHER who is coming. GOD is said to be "bringing those who sleep in Jesus." Further, the passage states that it is the LORD HIMSELF, meaning GOD who is coming and it is with God's trumpet. The Cor passage tells us that the living will be changed in the "twinkling of an eye" at the LAST TRUMPET.

So the question is when does this happen? Does it happen before, during, after or much after the Tribulation? Does it happen pre-wrath, mid wrath, post wrath? Or does it happen Pre Mil, mid Mil or Post mil? We are told that there is a resurrection associated with the "rapture." We are told that there are two resurrections and the first one was Christ. We are not given multiple future resurrections, just one of Saved and Unsaved.

We are told repeatedly that the resurrection is "at the last day" and the end of the age. We are told that they are resurrected and face judgment. The GWT is shown after the Trib and after the millennium. My view is that there will be a return of Christ and a return of God the father. The day of the Lord is an OT concept therefore I believe the DAY of the LORD is speaking of God's return. We see that the New Jerusalem comes down from God in Rev 21.

All the evidence appears to suggest that the "rapture" is clearly after the Tribulation and I believe is likely after the millennium too.

Okay, FOOD for thought, that makes your DAD's opinion RIGHT and yours Wrong.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.


NOW if your post-trib theory were even remotely correct, why are we being CAUGHT UP to meet HIM in the AIR? Would it NOT have been worded in verse 17: Then we who are alive and remain will be CHANGED in the twinkling of an eye, WHEN HE RETURNS TO US. ? ? ? Seriously think about it.

 

[VCO]

CHEST COLD/FLU WARNING:

I thought I had better pass this along. There is a new one going around out here in NEVADA, that the flu shots do not protect you from. It is putting people in the hospital out here. I got it and Doc said today only some strong antibiotics will get rid of it. So take this one very serious.

 

[Tankman131]

CHEST COLD/FLU WARNING:

I thought I had better pass this along. There is a new one going around out here in NEVADA, that the flu shots do not protect you from. It is putting people in the hospital out here. I got it and Doc said today only some strong antibiotics will get rid of it. So take this one very serious.

>chest flu
>influenza
>virus
>treating it with antibiotics

your doctor is an idiot

 

[FancyNancy]

The Wedding is traditionally held in the house of the Father of the Bridegroom, unless it was not large enough. I do not think the size of the House will be a problem in Our Heavenly Father's House. The Wedding Chamber is the New City Jerusalem, the Bride and her Bridegroom will honeymoon.

I do agree with you there. The return of the Bride and Bridegroom to Earth is parallel to the new married Hebrew couple setting up their household. I do think, though, that the idea of a honeymoon is not kosher! It is a modern tradition.

 

[FancyNancy]

Really?? How so?? You already admitted that you think Christ comes back twice and God once. When do you have God coming back relative to the 2 comings of Christ?

...even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

This is GOD THE FATHER coming my dear sister. Sorry if you disagree with the text unless you have God making multiple trips ferrying people back and forth too?

Jesus returns only once. He appears to the Bride once---and that is not a return. God doesn't "come back". He comes to dwell with mankind, literally, and that's a first.

Jesus, who IS GOD, comes to Earth bringing the saints with Him. This is Jesus' second coming!

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.


Sorry about your poor interpretive skills.

 

[FancyNancy]

So you also see God coming down with His glorious City to earth? Let me suggest that the below passage here:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband...God Himself will be with them and be their God...and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, [SUP]11 [/SUP]having the glory of God...

is describing the same scene as this passage here:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say to you by the word of the Lord (GOD), that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord (GOD) will by no means precede those who are asleep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord Himself (GOD) will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord (God) in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord (GOD).

Thus your rapture is at the end, it is at the Day of the Lord. It is God coming down in both passages just as you said He would. Kaboom, your pre-trib theory just took a death blow

Nope. The pre-tribulational rapture of the Church still stands.

 

[popeye]

Surprise, it has NOTHING to do with the modern day ​speaking in tongues.

paul revieved the HS through the laying on of hands,
Paul said he spoke in tongues more than them all.
more than half the book of acts is about him,and most of the NT is written by him.

 

[flob]

God doesn't "come back". He comes to dwell with mankind, literally, and that's a first.
Jesus, who IS GOD, comes to Earth bringing the saints with Him. This is Jesus' second coming!

Is this an error in my reading?

 

[popeye]

Look it up again, the Wedding Supper come after the Seven Day Honeymoon, in the Wedding Chamber.

jesus' on words place it in heaven.
29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.


mark 14;14 And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?15 And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
upper room=heaven

There is no evidence of any supper,feast ,ceremony,anywhere except heaven.

In fact,the wine is the consumation,in heaven,and the earthly consumation would be the bleeding of the virgin at consumation. No blood will spill in heaven,instead the wine is shared.

 

[popeye]

I am not using partial facts as I constantly show scriptures from the bible that have to be denied in order to make pre-trib rapture fit.

I use to be a big pre-trib rapture supporter tell I actually sat down and studied for myself the bible with the Holy Spirit guiding my studies.

You bring up the that the man of sin murdering millions of saints (believers in Christ) before he defiles the temple.
Where is your proof on this ??? For one if this is so then the man of sin will be revealed before he defiles the temple, and the Lord Jesus warning to the Jews in Judea to flea at this temple defilement event would be all for nothing because they would already know this man is the antichrist.

Second being murdered by the man of sin is not a rapture/gathering event.
Those who are dead in Christ, which are those who have already past and those who will be killed by the man of sin, will be raised first, then we who are alive and still remain from this horrible GT event will be caught up in the air with them to be gathered with the Lord.
If a person is murdered by the man of sin that is not a rapture............

The bible also gives us a time frame so your 1 hour, 1 week, 1 month revealing of the man of sin does not fly by the bible. For the bible says he is given 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1,260 days to carry out this persecuting and killing of the saints and Jews. God's wrath and the Lord Jesus return at the end of the GT is in response to this horrible acts of the man of sin !!!

You bring up the that the man of sin murdering millions of saints (believers in Christ) before he defiles the temple.
Where is your proof on this ???

That is what he does and is obcessed with,and why he is the ANTI-CHRIST.
He is revealed right away at the start of the GT. (white horse rider)
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The bible also gives us a time frame so your 1 hour, 1 week, 1 month revealing of the man of sin does not fly by the bible. For the bible says he is given 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1,260 days to carry out this persecuting and killing of the saints and Jews

My comment related to "Revealed",not how lonng he does anything.

 

[VCO]

>chest flu
>influenza
>virus
>treating it with antibiotics

your doctor is an idiot

Okay, then it is a bacteria infection. I labeled it flu, not him.

 

[FancyNancy]

Is this an error in my reading?

How are you reading it? What I was saying is that the Father comes to literally dwell among us, which is not a "coming back", but an AMAZING "coming".