Hebrews 4:9 and the Real "Sabbath" - Jesus

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sparkman

Guest
#21
So God changed His mind when He said follow these through all generations? Even if it only pertains to Jews. God said to oberserve it/ keep it holy/ however you want to word it God said through all generations. So even though Hebrews is to the Jews, I do not believe Paul would say something that God said to follow forever is to be stopped. Because then either that makes God contradicting, or it makes Paul wrong (I do not think God is contradicting, and I do not believe Paul is wrong).

So which do you think it is? Is Paul saying you don't have to observe Sabbath, or are you saying God is a contradicting God?
The Old Covenant was a temporary covenant. This is plainly taught in more than one place, but Galatians 3 makes it very clear.

Your logic would also apply to physical circumcision and animal sacrifices, which were part of the Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic laws but are clearly not applicable under the New Covenant.

Also, if you hold that the Sabbath is a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation under the New Covenant, what do you think about the salvation of those who never keep the Sabbath? Many Sabbath keepers believe that they aren't true Christians if this is the case. Sabbath keepers who think this try to evade this question, but many think they are not saved or are spiritually inferior. They often evade answering this question as it exposes their contempt and spiritual superiority complex.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#22
Dueteronomy 28 is where I believe the blessings are located.
I know a farmer who about 10-15 years ago he had what he called a spiritual revelation.
1 he started sabbath observance of resting on the 7th day.
2 he started farmer according to how it states to take care of your fields according to Torah.
Within a year he started having more produce on his farm than what he knew what to do with (which for a farmer that is a good thing, I'd call it being blessed).

Now my personal experience is when I started sabbath observance I worked retail at a mall (i was 18). I ended up getting 2 jobs there and I had more hours than everyone (except managers), even though I had just started. I also didn't have debt or financial issues.
There was a point where I decided personally to start sabbath observance (about 2 years after starting) because I was struggling spiritually (not with following sabbath, but with faith issue because there was stuff going on with my brother and I was also hanging out with the wrong group of people). When I stopped sabbath observance I both jobs within 2 months. And due to this I also started have financial issues.
after about 2-3 years of this I decided to get back on path with my walk. I didn't immediately go into observing sabbath, but when I did within a month I was offered a pretty good job (which I'm still happily working).
Now to me I concider these things blessings.

Now am I saying people have to follow sabbath? No, I'm not. I'm just defending the fact that sabbath is the 7th day of the week and it's not wrong to observe it, and there just so happens to blessing that I've notice come along with it. And to be clear I'm not saying that someone who does not follow the observance is unblessed. I know many people who are blessed and they do not observe sabbath, but they also do not teach against following/observing it either.
The error of the Judaizers discussed in Galatians was requiring that Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic laws needed to be kept in addition to having faith in Christ. Paul called those who claimed such things to be accursed, and he called them dogs. So, I have no issue with stating that Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic laws do not need to be kept.
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
#23
The Old Covenant was a temporary covenant. This is plainly taught in more than one place, but Galatians 3 makes it very clear.

Your logic would also apply to physical circumcision and animal sacrifices, which were part of the Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic laws but are clearly not applicable under the New Covenant.

Also, if you hold that the Sabbath is a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation under the New Covenant, what do you think about the salvation of those who never keep the Sabbath? Many Sabbath keepers believe that they aren't true Christians if this is the case. Sabbath keepers who think this try to evade this question, but many think they are not saved or are spiritually inferior. They often evade answering this question as it exposes their contempt and spiritual superiority complex.
I don't hold sabbath as a requirement for salvation.
But that's not my discussion as to why to follow it.

Exodus 31:12-17 NKJV
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, [SUP]13 [/SUP]“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. [SUP]17 [/SUP]It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”

Based off of this.
1 this is God speaking.
2 it states through all generations, there could maybe/slightly/very tiny possible this could mean temporary.
BUT 3, it states a 2nd time, to observe through all generations as a perpetual covenant.

Now what does perpetual mean?
According to the dictionary it means:
1. Never ending or changing
2. Occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted

So based off of verse 16 and God is stating this, I do not believe it to be temporary.

Again I'm not going to go around tell people Sabbath is way to salvation or something along those lines. But I do believe 7th day sabbath is different than just a sabbath in general.
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
#24
The Old Covenant was a temporary covenant. This is plainly taught in more than one place, but Galatians 3 makes it very clear.

Your logic would also apply to physical circumcision and animal sacrifices, which were part of the Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic laws but are clearly not applicable under the New Covenant.

Also, if you hold that the Sabbath is a requirement or condition or necessary fruit of salvation under the New Covenant, what do you think about the salvation of those who never keep the Sabbath? Many Sabbath keepers believe that they aren't true Christians if this is the case. Sabbath keepers who think this try to evade this question, but many think they are not saved or are spiritually inferior. They often evade answering this question as it exposes their contempt and spiritual superiority complex.
God is the only one who can condemn what is required for salvation and what's not. If someone is trying to preach/teach sabbath is salvation, they are wrong.
Is sabbath a means of salvation? No.
Do I believe it should be observed on the 7th day? Yes.
And in my last post I gave the scripture on why I belieev it is to be observed on the 7th day.
Is it wrong to gather on Sunday to worship God? No. We can worship any day of the week.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#25
God is the only one who can condemn what is required for salvation and what's not. If someone is trying to preach/teach sabbath is salvation, they are wrong.
Is sabbath a means of salvation? No.
Do I believe it should be observed on the 7th day? Yes.
And in my last post I gave the scripture on why I belieev it is to be observed on the 7th day.
Is it wrong to gather on Sunday to worship God? No. We can worship any day of the week.
Romans 14 gives you the right to observe Saturday if you wish.

Many Sabbathkeepers try to claim others must observe it or they are not saved or fall under the mark of the beast.

And many organizations that teach Sabbathkeeping teach other bad doctrine such as denying the Trinity, claiming man will become a God being in the resurrection, and that they are the true church.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#26
God is the only one who can condemn what is required for salvation and what's not. If someone is trying to preach/teach sabbath is salvation, they are wrong.
Is sabbath a means of salvation? No.
Do I believe it should be observed on the 7th day? Yes.
And in my last post I gave the scripture on why I belieev it is to be observed on the 7th day.
Is it wrong to gather on Sunday to worship God? No. We can worship any day of the week.
On any day of the week? That wouldn't be keeping it as prescribed by the law.
But you wouldn't want to 'keep it' that way anyways otherwise you'd be obligated to keep the WHOLE LAW.

Galatians 5:3 (KJV) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
 
Dec 1, 2014
1,430
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#27
This only proves that 'sweeter gets the journey every day". The longer we serve JESUS, the sweeter He grows. Things just keep getting better in CHRIST. Every day with JESUS is sweeter than the day before.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#28
I don't hold sabbath as a requirement for salvation.
But that's not my discussion as to why to follow it.

Exodus 31:12-17 NKJV
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, [SUP]13 [/SUP]“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. [SUP]17 [/SUP]It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”

Based off of this.
1 this is God speaking.
2 it states through all generations, there could maybe/slightly/very tiny possible this could mean temporary.
BUT 3, it states a 2nd time, to observe through all generations as a perpetual covenant.

Now what does perpetual mean?
According to the dictionary it means:
1. Never ending or changing
2. Occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted

So based off of verse 16 and God is stating this, I do not believe it to be temporary.

Again I'm not going to go around tell people Sabbath is way to salvation or something along those lines. But I do believe 7th day sabbath is different than just a sabbath in general.
If you do a word search using "perpetual" and see the many things that were labeled as perpetual in the Old Covenant, you will see that they are not in place anymore. Some of the relate to the priesthood and there was a change in priesthood from the Levitical priesthood to Christ as our priest.

I understand your line of reasoning but it isn't supportable in light of this. In addition, there are teachings in Hebrews, Galatians, Colossians and II Corinthians that teach the Old Covenant is not in effect.
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
#29
If you do a word search using "perpetual" and see the many things that were labeled as perpetual in the Old Covenant, you will see that they are not in place anymore. Some of the relate to the priesthood and there was a change in priesthood from the Levitical priesthood to Christ as our priest.

I understand your line of reasoning but it isn't supportable in light of this. In addition, there are teachings in Hebrews, Galatians, Colossians and II Corinthians that teach the Old Covenant is not in effect.
Ok so let put it in that context.
God still said, "Throughout all generations. . . ."
God didn't say, "Through a certain amount of generations."
I'm pretty sure if He wanted the Sabbath removed from the 7th day, I don't think He would have commanded to due it through all generation.
So even with taking the term "perpetual" out. It still has through all generations.
I'm still trying to figure out why something deemed holy more times in scripture than anything else, and the most repeated commandment is something that would be done away with.
Again I'm not saying it's a means of salvation, but it's the 1 day of the week that God set aside forever for observance.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#30
Ok so let put it in that context.
God still said, "Throughout all generations. . . ."
God didn't say, "Through a certain amount of generations."
I'm pretty sure if He wanted the Sabbath removed from the 7th day, I don't think He would have commanded to due it through all generation.
So even with taking the term "perpetual" out. It still has through all generations.
I'm still trying to figure out why something deemed holy more times in scripture than anything else, and the most repeated commandment is something that would be done away with.
Again I'm not saying it's a means of salvation, but it's the 1 day of the week that God set aside forever for observance.
You're not understanding it because you are still working at it.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Hebrews 4:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Your carnal understanding of the spiritual law is leading you astray. Everyones carnal understanding of the spiritual law has led them astray. It always will.

Romans 9:30-32

[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#31
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

.
what about the verse after

And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you] to walk in [my statutes],
and [ye shall keep my judgments], and do them.


when God will make all follow His ways


Isreal was deforced for breaking Gods statutes and sabbaths also


And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments,
so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:

Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes,
but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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400
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#32
The error of the Judaizers discussed in Galatians was requiring that Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic laws needed to be kept in addition to having faith in Christ. Paul called those who claimed such things to be accursed, and he called them dogs. So, I have no issue with stating that Old Covenant ceremonial and ritualistic laws do not need to be kept.
so what is youre view on this verse?


Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#33
If you do a word search using "perpetual" and see the many things that were labeled as perpetual in the Old Covenant, you will see that they are not in place anymore. Some of the relate to the priesthood and there was a change in priesthood from the Levitical priesthood to Christ as our priest.

I understand your line of reasoning but it isn't supportable in light of this. In addition, there are teachings in Hebrews, Galatians, Colossians and II Corinthians that teach the Old Covenant is not in effect.
so a thousand generations, are they over yet?


Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant
and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#34
Isaiah 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments!
then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea

Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying,
The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths,
and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better
than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him,
and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath
from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer:
their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall
be called an house of prayer for all people.

Isayah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me,
says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain


Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,

and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#35
Romans 14 gives you the right to observe Saturday if you wish.

.
Romans 14...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth
not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only,
don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some
that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing
themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth
or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day,
to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks;
and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12

twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7).
By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts.
In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost;
and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both
of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?
for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather,
that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:
but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably.
Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered
to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
µa´?e????
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this.
They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the
idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…

G1035
ß???s??
bro¯sis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively);
by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
p?´s??
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism
and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character.
He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,
and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace,
and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure;
but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
ß???µa
bro¯ma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby
thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink)
that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.
Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith:
for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats.
The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
#36
so what is youre view on this verse?


Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Sabbathkeepers will often claim Matthew 5:17-19 proves the need for New Covenant Christians to keep the Sabbath.

Matt 5:17-19 states the following:“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The phrase“Law and Prophets” refers to the Old Testament Scriptures.The Old Testament is divided into three different sections; the Law, Prophets, and Writings.The Law includes the first five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers).The Prophets include all of the books of the Prophets.The Writings include the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job.

Jesus was saying that he did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.He came to live a perfect life of obedience to the Old Covenant on our behalf.As God, he was able to be sinless and to fulfill the entire law. He was the reality that the animal sacrifices pointed to.Christ came to fulfill everything that the Old Testament said about him, including his sacrificial death on the behalf of mankind in Isaiah 53.

When did Christ fulfill the Law?He fulfilled the Law, as well as the prophecies concerning him, at the Cross:

John 19: 28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), “I thirst.” 29 A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

With regards to “these commandments” one could view this Scripture in two different ways.

One, if Christ is talking about the Law, referring back to verse 17, then the Law doesn’t apply to anyone today, although it did apply to the individuals he was speaking to…the Jews of his time.They were under the Old Covenant, and New Covenant Christians are not.

The Old Covenant was an agreement between God and the nation of Israel (Ex. 31:12-17).The Ten Commandments are a summary of the Old Covenant (Ex. 31:18, 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 9:9, 11).The Old Covenant is no longer in effect for anyone (2 Cor. 3:4-18, Gal. 3:17-25, Heb. 8:13-9:4).The Sabbath, therefore, is not in effect for anyone (Gal. 4:10, Rom. 14:5-6, Col. 2:16-17).Christians are under the New Covenant, which has higher demands and different commandments (Luke 22:20, Heb. 9:15; Jn. 13:34, 15:12, 17; Rom 13:10).The chief of those commandments is to love others as Christ loved us (Jn.13:34).

Two, he may have been talking about the contents of the Sermon on the Mount that he was about to deliver.He gave lots of instructions during the Sermon.

If the Sabbathkeeper claims that these verses prove the need to keep the Sabbath, then in order to be consistent, they need to keep the entire Law, as the individuals of Christ's day were doing, including physical circumcision, animal sacrifices, the weekly Sabbath, festivals, and strict tithing laws. I would venture to say that none of them are doing all of these things.

So, prove-all, I have two questions:

1. If you claim these verses prove that one must keep the Sabbath, do you also believe that a Christian must practice physical
circumcision and animal sacrifices? Those things were in effect when Christ uttered these words.

2. Do you deny the salvation of those who do not keep the Sabbath? Can a person who never keeps the Sabbath be in
the resurrection? Suppose he becomes a Christian at age 30, and dies at age 80, and never keeps the Sabbath?

I think I've mentioned that I was part of Worldwide Church of God and they taught that non-Sabbathkeepers were unsaved because they were still in their sins and in disobedience to God. Would you hold that view as well? Please don't evade the question.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#37
prove-all, I don't have the time or inclination to deal with your mass postings. You used the same remarks in the past. Plus I suspect you are part of an Armstrongite cult and you won't listen anyways.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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#39
prove-all, I don't have the time or inclination to deal with your mass postings. You used the same remarks in the past.Plus I suspect you are part of an Armstrongite cult and you won't listen anyways.
no these where new answers to youre new questions,
the last round went unanswered.

and you assume things you do not know about me, see I found a verse

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


so got me looking and I found this verse

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom:
a good understanding have all they that do his commandments:
his praise endureth for ever.


I decided to take God up on his promise and quess what,
he was truthfull in his word, and opened my eyes to see that


the devil is god of this current evil world, and has many many decieved
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#40
Personally I think Sabbath keeping springs from pride...it is something they can do as well as the outward aspects of the other moral laws like coveting. (They say 'I don't steal anything'. ..but they sure covet morally)
I see the appointed times of Lv 23 as times that God has set for His people to fellowship with him. I do not believe that they should be imposed on anyone; nor do I believe that observance needs to include corporate worship.

I see the appointed times, including the Sabbath, as figures and illustrations of various aspects of Jesus' earthly ministry. While I find great benefit in observing these times; I do not believe that observing them or failing to observe them has any effect on anyone's salvation.