POLL: The Deity of Christ

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The Deity of Christ?

  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
E

Elin

Banned
#81
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#81
SolidGround said:
Elin said:
You don't have a Bible?
Click to expand...
I do, and read it daily.
Click to expand...
And yet, you want me to show you the verses. . .

Jesus said the Holy Spirit issued from the Father, like himself (Jn 15:26).

Jesus said that
he came forth out of God (Jn 8:42),
he came forth from the Father (Jn 16:27),
he came forth out of the Father (Jn 16:28),
he came forth from the Father (you--Jn 17:8).

The Greek verb for "came forth from/out of" is exelthon.
It means "to proceed, to emanate (flow out, issue from as a source, as light issues from the sun),
to come out or go out of, to go forth."

See 1Co 14:36--"Did the word of God go forth from, originate with you?"
See Mt 2:6 (where different form, exeleusetai, is used)--"Out of thee will come forth a governor."
See Mt 15:18 (where a third form, like go, went and gone, is used, exerchontai)--"Out of the heart comes forth evil thoughts."

When "proceed, emanate, come out, go out, go forth" is used with ek, which means "out from within,"
as in Jn 8:42, 16:28 above, it means "to proceed out from within, to emanate out from within, to come out from within, to go forth out from within," an emerging from within, an origin, and used in this sense in John 336 times without exception.

So when Jesus says in Jn 15:26 that the Holy Spirit issued from, proceeded from the Father (ekporeuetai) like himself, he is saying that the Holy Spirit comes from within the Father, like himself, and that he is the same nature as the Father, like himself--that the Holy Spirit is divine.

See ekporeuetai in Mk 7:19 (goes out of--from within--the body),
in Rev 9:17 (out of--from with--their mouths come fire and smoke and sulfur)
in Rev 11:15 (fire comes out of--from within--their mouths).

And in Gal 4:16, we see that the Holy Spirit is not only the Spirit of the Father, but also
the Spirit of the Son.

And then in another form of the verb, ekporeuomenon, in the symbolic statement of Rev 22:1,
we see the procession (going forth) of the Holy Spirit from within the Father and the Son,
where the river of the water of life, the Holy Spirit (v. 17) flows from (within) the throne of God and the Lamb.

So the NT presents the Son proceeding from within the Father (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8), and
the Holy Spirit proceeding, like the Son, from within the Father (Jn 15:26),
as well as from within the Son (Gal 4:6).

Jesus also said the Holy Spirit was "another" Comforter--another like himself (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7), a divine person.
 
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SolidGround

SolidGround

Senior Member
#82
Jan 15, 2014
904
17
18
#82
Elin said:
And yet, you want me to show you the verses. . .

Jesus said the Holy Spirit issued from the Father, like himself (Jn 15:26).

Jesus said that
he came forth out of God (Jn 8:42),
he came forth from the Father (Jn 16:27),
he came forth out of the Father (Jn 16:28),
he came forth from the Father (you--Jn 17:8).

The Greek verb for "came forth from/out of" is exelthon.
It means "to proceed, to emanate (flow out, issue from as a source, as light issues from the sun),
to come out or go out of, to go forth."

See 1Co 14:36--"Did the word of God go forth from, originate with you?"
See Mt 2:6 (where different form, exeleusetai, is used)--"Out of thee will come forth a governor."
See Mt 15:18 (where a third form, like go, went and gone, is used, exerchontai)--"Out of the heart comes forth evil thoughts."

When "proceed, emanate, come out, go out, go forth" is used with ek, which means "out from within,"
as in Jn 8:42, 16:28 above, it means "to proceed out from within, to emanate out from within, to come out from within, to go forth out from within," an emerging from within, an origin, and used in this sense in John 336 times without exception.

So when Jesus says in Jn 15:26 that the Holy Spirit issued from, proceeded from the Father (ekporeuetai) like himself, he is saying that the Holy Spirit comes from within the Father, like himself, and that he is the same nature as the Father, like himself--that the Holy Spirit is divine.

See ekporeuetai in Mk 7:19 (goes out of--from within--the body),
in Rev 9:17 (out of--from with--their mouths come fire and smoke and sulfur)
in Rev 11:15 (fire comes out of--from within--their mouths).

And in Gal 4:16, we see that the Holy Spirit is not only the Spirit of the Father, but also
the Spirit of the Son.

And then in another form of the verb, ekporeuomenon, in the symbolic statement of Rev 22:1,
we see the procession (going forth) of the Holy Spirit from within the Father and the Son,
where the river of the water of life, the Holy Spirit (v. 17) flows from (within) the throne of God and the Lamb.

So the NT presents the Son proceeding from within the Father (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8), and
the Holy Spirit proceeding, like the Son, from within the Father (Jn 15:26),
as well as from within the Son (Gal 4:6).

Jesus also said the Holy Spirit was "another" Comforter--another like himself (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7), a divine person.
Click to expand...
If something comes forth from me, is it equatable to me myself? No!
Coming from, and being: they are not the same.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#83
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#83
InSpiritInTruth said:
You left out one other option, the word God (G2316) can be translated God's (G2316) Just as Christ is God's as shown below...

[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR]
[TD]Jhn 1:1[/TD]
[TD]¶In [SUP]G1722[/SUP] the beginning [SUP]G746[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] the Word, [SUP]G3056[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] the Word [SUP]G3056[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] with [SUP]G4314[/SUP] God, [SUP]G2316[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] the Word [SUP]G3056[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] God. [SUP]G2316[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 3:23[/TD]
[TD]And [SUP]G1161[/SUP] ye [SUP]G5210[/SUP] are Christ's; [SUP]G5547[/SUP] and [SUP]G1161[/SUP] Christ [SUP]G5547[/SUP] is God's. [SUP]G2316[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
And I note it is the possessive form, God's, and not the plural form, gods. . .huge difference.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#85
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#85
SolidGround said:
If something comes forth from me, is it equatable to me myself? No!
Coming from, and being: they are not the same.
Click to expand...
News Flash!

You aren't God. . .when it proceeds from within God, they are.

God's Word is his almighty breath (spirit),
and in the OT, his Word and his Spirit are parallel figures.

The speech and breath of God appear in creation (Ge 1:2ff, Ps 33:6).
The NT reveals that the divine Word of Ge 1:3, 9, 24, Ps 33:6, 9; Is 55:11 is a person (Jn 1:1-18).
Jesus teaches that the divine Spirit (breath) of Ge 1:2; Job 26:13, 312:8, 33:4, 34:14-15, Ps 33:6 is a person (see Jn 20:22, and Ac 2:2 where God's breath--Spirit--is as the blowing of a mighty wind).

Jesus teaches the deity of the personal Holy Spirit by calling him the "holy" Spirit, just as he spoke of the "holy" Father (Jn 17:11).
Holy was the OT adjective for expressing the God-ness of God, as Lord was the Greek OT name and title denoting the Godhood of God.
And just as the name and title, Lord, of the Greek OT is used in the NT chiefly not of the Father, but of the Son; so the adjective, holy, is mainly applied in the NT, not to the Father, but to the Spirit.

The NT reveals that the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is likewise God.
 
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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#90
Jul 28, 2012
9,145
616
113
70
Alabama
#90
InSpiritInTruth said:
You left out one other option, the word God (G2316) can be translated God's (G2316) Just as Christ is God's as shown below...

[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR]
[TD]Jhn 1:1[/TD]
[TD]¶In [SUP]G1722[/SUP] the beginning [SUP]G746[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] the Word, [SUP]G3056[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] the Word [SUP]G3056[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] with [SUP]G4314[/SUP] God, [SUP]G2316[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] the Word [SUP]G3056[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] God. [SUP]G2316[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]1Co 3:23[/TD]
[TD]And [SUP]G1161[/SUP] ye [SUP]G5210[/SUP] are Christ's; [SUP]G5547[/SUP] and [SUP]G1161[/SUP] Christ [SUP]G5547[/SUP] is God's. [SUP]G2316[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
No, it can't. Θεόν in accusative masculine singular spelling and Θεὸς is nominative masculine singular. θεοὶ is the plural form and appears nowhere in John 1. In 1Cor, 3:23 it is Θεοῦ which is genitive masculine singular - "of God."
 
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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#91
Sep 4, 2013
30,778
6,936
113
#91
InSpiritInTruth said:
If Christ is God's, then how is God's Word not from God? :)
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Was this a miss-type on your part? To me, your comment should read:

If Christ is God (without the apostrophe S), then how is God's Word not from God?

So, you ask: If Christ is God, then how is God's Word not from God?

That is a nonsensical question in my opinion because it really makes no sense to ask. You guys still trying to figure out "proceeded from God," or "begotten" vs. created or what?

[h=1]John
1[/h]
1 .) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 .) The same was in the beginning with God.
3 .) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 .) In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 .) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.ha

Why is that so difficult to understand? Unless, of course, you/others are in "darkness, and comprehend it not.

That's on you, not us, and we are under NO OBLIGATION whatsoever to "prove" to you or others the Deity of Christ. The Gospels do that quite clearly. As do the prophecies of Isaiah and David.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#92
Sep 4, 2013
30,778
6,936
113
#92
SolidGround said:
Then show the verse, because my Bible says nothing of the sort.
Jesus is Lord! It says nothing a three divine persons in a trinity.
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No, Scripture does not include the specific word "trinity," however Scripture does speak of and identify the three Persons of the Trinity very clearly in the 14th Chapter of John. As you read your Bible daily, tomorrow study that Chapter for starters.

I do not study Catholic teachings of the Trinity, so won't comment on them. Nor do I care to read the Catholic version of the Bible, as I am not Catholic, no need for me to. Not even for educational purposes.

What group/church/sect of Jewish Christians do you belong to? I know there are more than one.
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#93
#93
InSpiritInTruth said:
LOL! The question was to you. :) If Christ is God's, (G2316) then is the Word God's? (G2316)
Click to expand...
Is it this verse here?

1 Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

In the sense of His Christ?

Like in these verses?

Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Or no?



 
FancyNancy

FancyNancy

Banned
#94
May 30, 2015
1,179
7
0
#94
Jesus Christ is God.

Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
You rule with a scepter of justice.
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#95
#95
FancyNancy said:
Jesus Christ is God.

Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son he says,“Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever.
You rule with a scepter of justice.
Click to expand...
This was posted earlier as well I agree
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#97
Jul 28, 2012
9,145
616
113
70
Alabama
#97
FancyNancy said:
I'm sorry, I didn't see it.
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Neither did I. I have not caught up on all the posts yet but your point is well taken and the text is a good one. This is the Father addressing the Son as God.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#98
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#98
p_rehbein said:
Was this a miss-type on your part? To me, your comment should read:

If Christ is God (without the apostrophe S), then how is God's Word not from God?

So, you ask: If Christ is God, then how is God's Word not from God?

That is a nonsensical question in my opinion because it really makes no sense to ask. You guys still trying to figure out "proceeded from God," or "begotten" vs. created or what?

John
1


1 .) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 .) The same was in the beginning with God.
3 .) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 .) In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 .) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.ha

Why is that so difficult to understand? Unless, of course, you/others are in "darkness, and comprehend it not.

That's on you, not us, and we are under NO OBLIGATION whatsoever to "prove" to you or others the Deity of Christ. The Gospels do that quite clearly. As do the prophecies of Isaiah and David.
Click to expand...
So you think this verse is wrong? It should read what you say? LOL

1 Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
 
InSpiritInTruth

InSpiritInTruth

Banned
#99
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
78
0
#99
oldhermit said:
No, it can't. Θεόν in accusative masculine singular spelling and Θεὸς is nominative masculine singular. θεοὶ is the plural form and appears nowhere in John 1. In 1Cor, 3:23 it is Θεοῦ which is genitive masculine singular - "of God."
Click to expand...
So the Word is not God's? Funny I thought God's words were His. :)
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#100
#100
FancyNancy said:
I'm sorry, I didn't see it.
Click to expand...
Oh no, thats okay, its just not something he missed, but I believe Sarah brought uo the order of things concerning God not being a son of man and how certain things in scripture line up (or perhaps typically just tossed out at others) without understanding the how's adding to peoples confusion .

I think I posted on the same in post # 44 (I believe that was the one) I dont read everyones posts either, but it wasnt something he missed just likely comes in at it differently.

For me, theres lots of little details surrounding these things I love to catch in a proper order but I do think its best not to study certain topics openly theres too much cause for misunderstanding, especially if there is already animoisity towards you, you can see it coming before it arrives.

I will be curious to know myself as to how he is working it out

God bless you
 
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