POLL: The Deity of Christ

[Elin]

You left out one other option, the word God (G2316) can be translated God's (G2316) Just as Christ is God's as shown below...

[TABLE="class: cms_table_bibleTable"]
[TR]
[TD]Jhn 1:1[/TD]
[TD]¶In [SUP]G1722[/SUP] the beginning [SUP]G746[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] the Word, [SUP]G3056[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] the Word [SUP]G3056[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] with [SUP]G4314[/SUP] God, [SUP]G2316[/SUP] and [SUP]G2532[/SUP] the Word [SUP]G3056[/SUP] was [SUP]G2258[/SUP] God. [SUP]G2316[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

No, it can't. Θεόν in accusative masculine singular spelling and Θεὸς is nominative masculine singular. θεοὶ is the plural form and appears nowhere in John 1. In 1Cor, 3:23 it is Θεοῦ which is genitive masculine singular - "of God."

Thanks. . .so the "God's" business is moot.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ever hear of the Angel of the Lord? That is the preincarnate Christ, second in the Godhead. He also appeared to many Old Testament figures such as Lot, Abraham, Joshua, in such passages as Genesis 16:7-14, Genesis 22:11-18, Judges 5:13, 2 Kings 19:35, and other passages.

But of course, you will also deny this is true. Keep piling up the evidence, bub. Administrators will be along soon to see the lies you preach here.

He had many names, Angel of the lord. Son of Man, Son of God,

each name was given to announce what he was doing at the time.

 

[michael56]

Most people who are not academically inclined are quick to condemn things they do not understand. What I have learned concerning the nature of God come from the biblical text itself. I Since the Holy Spirit is the author of scripture I trust the Bible as a reliable source of information. Scripture represents God as triadic and everything is creation is established on this triadic principle.

Scripture reveals God operating in three distinct functions. These three distinct functions involve intelligent design, active cause, and organization. I refer to each of these in terms of his respective position within the triadic structure The idea of position simply demonstrates the functional relationship that each appears to have with the others and to define the role that each has within the triadic structure. The First Position will always appear as the one who represents the idea or the planning. It is also the position of command. The Second Position will always be the avenue of communication between the two worlds as well as the causative agent. He will be the one who gives substance to the idea. He takes what is abstract (the idea) and gives it form and substance. The Third Position will always serve as the linking agent. He is the one who brings order to the work of the Second Position. He organizes the work of the Second Position so that it conforms exactly to the idea of the First Position. He shapes a finished product.

These positional functions of each appear to be exclusive. In all of my studies in scripture, I find it quite interesting that I have been unable to find a single textual example where one member of the Triadic Unity is seen operating in the function of another member. For example, we never seem to find the Third Position functioning as the active cause or the Second Position functioning as the linking agent. Each member of the triadic unity always appears to function within the parameters of his exclusive dynamic. (If anyone can show me an example in scripture to the contrary, then I stand corrected). There are places where some of these may appear to overlap but this does not change the basic parameters of positional function. This simple diagram may help to explain the idea of divine triadic structure as it relates to the function of each member of the Triadic Unity in relationship to creation.

The academic mind of man does not lead or bring you to spiritual understanding.if it did there would not be 27 books in the NT

 

[michael56]

Ever hear of the Angel of the Lord? That is the preincarnate Christ, second in the Godhead. He also appeared to many Old Testament figures such as Lot, Abraham, Joshua, in such passages as Genesis 16:7-14, Genesis 22:11-18, Judges 5:13, 2 Kings 19:35, and other passages.

But of course, you will also deny this is true. Keep piling up the evidence, bub. Administrators will be along soon to see the lies you post here. You did know your

in the poll is public, right, that anyone can see that it is you who deny Christ's deity in the voting?

Oh I have posted no lies, just scripture based truth

 

[oldhermit]

The academic mind of man does not lead or bring you to spiritual understanding.if it did there would not be 27 books in the NT

Each of these concepts are rooted in scripture. The fact that you have not seen them does not mean they are not there.

 

[michael56]

[QU
Each of these concepts are rooted in scripture. The fact that you have not seen them does not mean they are not there.[/QUOTE]

Really? Please show me where it is rooted in scripture a person must believe Christ is God himself to receive eternal life. The plain text please

 

[oldhermit]

Really? Please show me where it is rooted in scripture a person must believe Christ is God himself to receive eternal life. The plain text please

This is not the question. The question is whether or not Jesus is the one true God. I will deal with the other point later. It seems clear you did not read anything I said in that post.

 

[Elin]

So the Word is not God's? Funny I thought God's words were His.

No, your translation is not God's word.

 

[Elin]

Yeah I posted it above, evidently someone thought it was my own words. And yes Christ is God's
Just as Jesus' words were not his own, but God's.


1 Corinthians 11:3.... and the head of Christ is God.

Yes, Christ, the God/man.

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1;13_

 

[michael56]

This is not the question. The question is whether or not Jesus is the one true God. I will deal with the other point later. It seems clear you did not read anything I said in that post.

Jesus stated only the father is the one true God. You have no scripture at all that can contradict that.

 

[kaylagrl]

UMMM One of the blonds is here.

This is one doctrine I go running out into the night screaming because I are confusalted on it.

I am not sure how to reconcile verses like this

Numbers 23

19"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Jesus over and over again makes it very plain that He is the son of man.

Matthew 17

[SUP]13 [/SUP]When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

[SUP]14 [/SUP]They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And I tell you that you are Peter,[SUP][b][/SUP] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[SUP][c][/SUP] will not overcome it.[SUP]19 [/SUP]I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[SUP][d][/SUP] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[SUP][e][/SUP] loosed in heaven.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.



Jesus also said this

John 20

17Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"


Paul says this

1 Corinthians 15

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy to be destroyed is death. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For he “has put everything under his feet.”[SUP][c][/SUP] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Now that is not to say there are other things that seem to point the other way. It's just at this point I am not sure HOW to reconcile all the verses that on the surface seem to contradict each other.

So for now I will do as John told us to do here

John 20

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. [SUP]31 [/SUP]But these are written that you may believe[SUP][b][/SUP] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Quite simple,Jesus was both God and man.

 

[Elin]

Here's the point Christ is God's, and the Word of God is the Son of God, which is God's Christ, or God's Son, or God's Word, all are of God the Father.

You can play word hockey all day long, but the Truth is the Word of God is God's. There is only One God.

Agreed. . .and the Son is God (Jn 1:1, 13).
The new covenant word of God presents three divine persons, God the Father, God the Son,
and God the Holy Spirit, in the one God.

 

[oldhermit]

Jesus stated only the father is the one true God. You have no scripture at all that can contradict that.

Yes, The Father is the one true God. So is Jesus and the Holy Spirit. What you are not grasping is the biblical concept of 'one.' I have never understood why so many people have such a problem with this concept. I would like to offer a simple explanation that I believe might help demonstrate the idea of the singularity of the triadic unity. Music is created around the structuring of chords. A chord is a collection of notes that form a harmonic. The ‘c’ cord for example, is a triad consisting of the notes c, e, and g. Each individual note within the triad functions in a specific relationship to the others creating a pleasing sound. These are three separate and distinct notes that function within given parameters yet, they are one chord. We do not have a problem understanding this concept as it relates to something as simple as music, but somehow when we think of God in these terms some people's minds go into melt down. This illustration is by no means without its inadequacies and limitations but it does help us to understand the viability of the oneness of unity. Divine triadic function is a harmonic. It is an arrangement of parts rooted in the nature of God.

 

[Elin]

Whose words did Jesus speak? Not his own, but God's.

John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Yes, Jesus the man spoke the words of Jesus the God.

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1:1, 13)

You're getting it. . .

 

[Elin]

Same reason David called the Word of God Lord, when David spoke by the Spirit saying the Lord said unto my Lord concerning God's Christ. God has made His Word both Lord and Christ and it is a marvelous thing indeed!

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1:1, 13)

 

[Elin]

Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Yes, the Word, who is Jesus the man/God is both Lord and Christ.

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1:1, 13).

 

[Elin]

People nowadays are trying to bypass the Son, and even do away with the title of the Son of God by saying phrases like "God the Son." This is a dangerous doctrine because it tries to eliminate the one mediator between God and man.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Here are a few verses explaining how the apostles of the Lord showed the difference between God and Jesus Christ.


1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:2Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Ephesians 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with allspiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 1:17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Ephesians 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Thessalonians 1:2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
1 Timothy 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
2 Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Philemon 1:3 Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
2 John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ." (Jn 1:1, 13) in Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[michael56]

Yes, The Father is the one true God. So is Jesus and the Holy Spirit. What you are not grasping is the biblical concept of 'one.' I have never understood why so many people have such a problem with this concept. I would like to offer a simple explanation that I believe might help demonstrate the idea of the singularity of the triadic unity. Music is created around the structuring of chords. A chord is a collection of notes that form a harmonic. The ‘c’ cord for example, is a triad consisting of the notes c, e, and g. Each individual note within the triad functions in a specific relationship to the others creating a pleasing sound. These are three separate and distinct notes that function within given parameters yet, they are one chord. We do not have a problem understanding this concept as it relates to something as simple as music, but somehow when we think of God in these terms some people's minds go into melt down. This illustration is by no means without its inadequacies and limitations but it does help us to understand the viability of the oneness of unity. Divine triadic function is a harmonic. It is an arrangement of parts rooted in the nature of God.

I am afraid your musical example cannot override or seek to explain away the words of Christ. So far you have offered nothing to the discussion. I can easily prove from scripture Christ is not the one true God according to Christ himself, you cannot prove he is

 

[Elin]

John 14 is the key to my questioning of the standard Trinity doctrine.
If Jesus' oneness with the Father binds Him into the Trinity based on the words of verses 9-11, then we are also in the Trinity based on verse 20.

I am part of a Baptist congregation. I do not separate myself from my church family over small differences. I reserve discussions like this one for conversations with fellow deacons and elders. It's not really the sort of thing you preach about, or even talk about with someone you are discipling. It's just knowledge, and has no practical purpose other than seeking understanding for the sake of understanding.

Like most of the "higher theologies", there is no power in them. They are just man's thoughts about God, with a few proof texts that people debate about. The Gospel on the other hand, is not debatable because it is powerful.

I disagree with all of God's truth not having power.

 

[oldhermit]

I am afraid your musical example cannot override or seek to explain away the words of Christ. So far you have offered nothing to the discussion. I can easily prove from scripture Christ is not the one true God according to Christ himself, you cannot prove he is

Then why does Jesus refer to him self as "THE Almighty?"