Creflo Dollar's Jet

[gb9]

You'd think that people would want to really look into eternal issues, though, find out for themselves what's in the Bible. It seems more like a lot of people want somebody to kill their guilty consciences and sanction their lusts, avoid any real confrontation with truth.

truth?? come on dude. let's not let that pesky truth get in the way of what we believe.

 

[JesusIsAll]

This is just what hub and i were talking about. Yeah i get people getting confirtable in church, in their sin, and even in service. But what about getting really serious about recongnizing sin, and actually repenting....james 4:7-8, i mean if we all ACTUALLY were seriuos about learning, growing, and wait for it...........repenting...i think we'd see some revival.

Have learned not to hold my breath for that great revival, anyway, but being a glass almost empty kind of guy you probably shouldn't listen to.

 

[JesusIsAll]

truth?? come on dude. let's not let that pesky truth get in the way of what we believe.

I'm confident we can hold our ground, as long as nobody starts believing the Bible means exactly what it says.

 

[Rosesrock]

Have learned not to hold my breath for that great revival, anyway, but being a glass almost empty kind of guy you probably shouldn't listen to.

You're probablt right noted

 

[JesusIsAll]

You're probablt right noted

Well, when it's the only way left, I'm usually right.

 

[Chica]

You'd think that people would want to really look into eternal issues, though, find out for themselves what's in the Bible. It seems more like a lot of people want somebody to kill their guilty consciences and sanction their lusts, avoid any real confrontation with truth.

People have no common sense anymore. When they have to print on plastic bags..."Don't put this over your head or you will suffocate"..... HELLO, know what I mean Vern? The chuches are full of people that are attracted because they are looking for entertainment. My husband was sitting on the front porch one day and he heard some guy across the street say he liked the new preacher at the chruch because he told jokes from the pulpit and "Wasn't like the old preacher that used to scream at you about hell", that pretty much says it all.

It seems more like a lot of people want somebody to kill their guilty consciences and sanction their lusts, avoid any real confrontation with truth.

That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:

Which say to the seers, see not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, Cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. Isaiah 30:9-11


Can you believe that ?, they wanted God to go away from their presence so they could do what they wanted!

 

[Chica]

Living in a glass house, Schuller couldn't afford that! It would have been more fitting, if the congregation's seating were sofas. "Now, would you open your Bibles to the book of Freud, where we will read one half of a verse."

LOL, yeah, I'm OK, you're OK

 

[JesusIsAll]

That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:

Which say to the seers, see not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, Cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. Isaiah 30:9-11

Can you believe that ?, they wanted God to go away from their presence so they could do what they wanted!

Spiritual blindness is a very strange and powerful thing, supersedes intellect. I believe, and the Bible supports this, that people have to be given eyes to see and ears to hear by the Spirit of God, or a big chunk of them is very idiotic, and no matter the education.

 

[Chica]

Spiritual blindness is a very strange and powerful thing, supersedes intellect. I believe, and the Bible supports this, that people have to be given eyes to see and ears to hear by the Spirit of God, or a big chunk of them is very idiotic, and no matter the education.

Absolutely, being born again is a ministry of the Holy Spirit. Jesus left us the Comforter to lead us into truth.

 

[ladylynn]

That complaint reminds me of too many people I've heard curse rich Christians while defending George Soros, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and other liberal radicals who are getting rich off the poor, and strong-arming corporations by threatening racial troubles if not obeying them. Why must Christians never be wealthy? There's no commandment prohibiting that, though one particular rich young man caught Jesus' attention. A rich man supplied his tomb. Should Jesus have refused to arise from that one, leaving it for use by a wicked man instead?

For the record, most mega church preachers like Dollar have been investigated sufficiently. Dollar and others don't take a dime of salary from churches. They sell media materials they authored, which are wildly popular. From what I've read most donate a huge part of their sales. it's apparent to me they are being blessed by God just like the Lord taught them it should be.

Would you have condemned Abraham for his wealth in his day, or worse today? It was enormous, and so was that of Job. If not, why not? Abraham was a friend of God. Are you? Is there some jealousy or covetousness at hand among those condemning people blessed by God?

Some folks here hate the idea of tithing to support ministry. They like the idea of tipping a church a few bucks once in a while, calling that a freewill offering that pleases God. But when a call goes out for an offering of any amount, they are offended, yet obviously are tuning in as free-loaders worried some poor widow will not be blessed for giving a dollar. How else shall anyone know of needs of ministries, but that ministers ask for offerings?

if anyone gives an offering according to the terms of 2 Cor 9, then they will be blessed to the extent of 2 Corinthians 9:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

Else the scriptures are a lie, and we all just stay home without hope. Not me! Dollar and thousands who actually apply his teachings are living proof. Dollar and the others similar to WOF are teaching it the way the Bible says it. Poor men preach poverty is a blessing, so the poor hold onto every dime they can, and remain servants to dimes, unable to give a dollar to any good cause. The numbers prove that, counting up the poor and powerless.

Giving apart from the terms of proper giving is a useless activity, devoid of blessing.

Hate tithing? Hate biblical offerings? Hate people who are giving away millions a year to other people? What else is hated here?

Very well said Word_swordsman!! 2 Cor. 9:8

 

[mwc68]

Is it just me? I get the feeling some just don't want to go to Church, kinda like, Ill do it my way. Forsake the assembly

 

[CeileDe]

Is it just me? I get the feeling some just don't want to go to Church, kinda like, Ill do it my way. Forsake the assembly

I don't attend church. I fellowship with my family and attend bible studies.

 

[Tankman131]

Is it just me? I get the feeling some just don't want to go to Church, kinda like, Ill do it my way. Forsake the assembly

Basically yeah.

I find myself not wanting to go to church but then i realize that is exactly when i need to go so i go.

 

[Tankman131]

People have no common sense anymore. When they have to print on plastic bags..."Don't put this over your head or you will suffocate"..... HELLO, know what I mean Vern? The chuches are full of people that are attracted because they are looking for entertainment. My husband was sitting on the front porch one day and he heard some guy across the street say he liked the new preacher at the chruch because he told jokes from the pulpit and "Wasn't like the old preacher that used to scream at you about hell", that pretty much says it all.



That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:

Which say to the seers, see not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, Cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. Isaiah 30:9-11


Can you believe that ?, they wanted God to go away from their presence so they could do what they wanted!

The warnings are not because people dont have common sense but because people sued the companies acting like they didnt know better and won

 

[ladylynn]

Luke 6:36-37 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:


It is a large lie that Creflo preaches a false gospel. Such claims are making for me CCHat a hard place to visit and be blessed. 600 people died listening to lies like that from Jim Jones. Satan is the accuser, and has many ears eagerly listening. He would love to bring Creflo Dollar down likehe did Job, but that won't happen.

We record the World Changers weekly TV service along with other favorite ministries so we can watch them after church or while on the road. I've never heard Creflo begging or pressuring anyone on TV. I don't trust YouTube, seeing many sermons by all major preachers are altered to suit a critic's intent. There's a lot of statements shown out of context.

At the Atlanta meetings we find a typical church setting with all the usual events. There comes a offering time, and all the current projects and opportunities to join in are presented very professionally, no begging or pressuring. Visitors are encouraged to tithe to their home church, please, then gladly give an offering there of any amount. Got financial problems? Stay a while and get help. Maybe you need enough gas in the car to get home. Need help getting your ex to keep child support payments coming? They can link you up with help. Hang around at close of service to meet the biggest, friendliest crowd in America. You might want to move to Atlanta to join them. They are happy, prosperous, and love to give to those that need. It's their extreme delight to know millions of dollars are going out to ministries around the world.

Our local church can't do much like they can, just not having that big spark plug catching us on fire like Creflo does.

Creflo preaches and teaches pure New Testament gospel in its entirety. His books present gospel truth too. Nothing is left out, leaving nothing unknown about Jesus that can be known.

From the comments on the 11 Christian sites I look at, the complainers obviously don't know the man and ministry they condemn. I think the main reason few condemn Billy Graham, with a net worth of 25 million, having solicited offerings every service, is people are more familiar with his ministry and just love the man.

Try reading up some basic facts about Creflo at http://www.worldchangerschurchnewyork.org/bio_t.aspx

My Bible indicates that judging the man is sin, and can bring upon a condemner the same condemnation we utter. I've watched once fine, dedicated Christians rumble into ruined health and broken finances following bitterness against ministers. Even if you don't speak your mind against them, somehow the devil just finds out, and you get judged. We're supposed to pray for them, love even our enemies.

I've only been to the Atlanta church of about 6,000 members, so can't testify about the dozens of satellite churches World Changers has in the US. We want to visit the Dallas congregation this summer. I do know each of them expect Creflo to come by. Like Billy Graham, Creflo has a ministry team that goes with him, along with lots of equipment for places where a good sound system is needed. None of that is practical when traveling daily on commercial flights that are not available when the team and equipment must be moved hours after a meeting to the next one. Lots of destinations don't have direct flights. Whenever we fly we have frequent temporary delays in luggage getting to us.

What you probably don't know is WChangers is shooting for 500 churches world-wide, and it's happening. The plane will get them wherever they are supposed to go, and when, a lot cheaper and more efficiently.

Critics of ministers that are actually building churches world-wide are tools of the Devil, who hates the idea of spreading the gospel that much. His folks would love to see the average church be like the following. The homeless guy wakes up from his night on the park bench to find his congregation of equally poor folks sitting on the grass waiting for him to move. He folds his newspaper bedding up, goes behind a tree a moment, returns to hold up his plywood sign "Jesus is Love". He then preaches the profound blessings of being poor for Jesus. He is deeply grateful for $1.25 in donation in the paper cup. Well, he'll have to wait another service to afford a Junior beef melt meal.

A full time minister deserves, according to the Holy Spirit, to live off the gospel he ministers. Without a committment, typically a pledge to tithe, how is that fellow I described going to sign a lease for a little apartment, pay a deposit, make the monthly rent, have a bed, pay utilities and eat? If all he can count on is random giving, no budget, how does he survive while the church members have what they need? Many he ministers to are probably wealthy, but they've been taught not to tithe, so won't consider a regular salary. To provide a salary requires commitment from people. Without that, the congregation won't attract a pastor, unless that pastor is employed elsewhere.

Paul was obviously wealthy, a tent-maker by trade. He insisted on paying his own way, even becoming a ranch hand when staying with a host. In Rome he had a rent house where he stayed with a guard, meeting leaders daily, writing epistles. He was a frequent visitor to Caesar's palace, popular among the servants and family there, making them Christians.

It is that Paul that wrote to the Corinthian Christians who were poor, living where the citizens were plugged into an economy built around the pagan temple of Dianna, pagans favored for jobs. Paul appealed for an offering from them to take relief to other Christians suffering persecution. From his teachings I doubt he told widows not to give, as that act done properly qualifies them for direct blessing from the Lord, which they need. God's economy also provides for the blessed congregation to afford maintaining all their widows, orphans, and needy.

Poor congregations that are not generous and committed to support those the Lord sends their way will remain poor and of little use to anyone, even themselves.

Blessed churches are the ones carrying out Jesus' directives to establish the gospel around the world.

There is no blessing for critics of the lively churches that have discovered the many blessings of the Lord. You won't hear about the dead churches, their pastor having to sell used cars all week, available a few hours on Sunday morning. The churches doing the right thing are prospering and able to do great things locally and abroad.

It's as simple as that. Folks, don't curse yourself with your own tongue. If you hate the prosperity part of God's promises, God will kindly let you try to enjoy your poverty, lack, and misery. He won't force his prosperity on anyone not expectant of his promises. Americans tend to reject the good, while congregations around the world living in the middle of deplorable economic situations are rising out of poverty by the multiplied millions through faith in God's promises. They have the money to send missionaries to America, and are themselves reaching the rest of the world.

Whether you got this far in this post or not, I believe all here who castigate ministers who are greatly blessed by God will have to be accountable to God for that. That could simply mean losing long held jobs, careers vanishing, costs sky-rocketing. God is not responsible for what's happening in America. Unbelief is the cause. When God is ignored, people lose vision, then perish simply because he is no longer welcome in our midst.

Please don't be discouraged Word_Swordsman., Keep posting because our numbers are increasing because the truth is getting out about Jesus and His Grace.

 

[Chica]

That complaint reminds me of too many people I've heard curse rich Christians while defending George Soros, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and other liberal radicals who are getting rich off the poor, and strong-arming corporations by threatening racial troubles if not obeying them. Why must Christians never be wealthy? There's no commandment prohibiting that, though one particular rich young man caught Jesus' attention. A rich man supplied his tomb. Should Jesus have refused to arise from that one, leaving it for use by a wicked man instead?

For the record, most mega church preachers like Dollar have been investigated sufficiently. Dollar and others don't take a dime of salary from churches. They sell media materials they authored, which are wildly popular. From what I've read most donate a huge part of their sales. it's apparent to me they are being blessed by God just like the Lord taught them it should be.

Would you have condemned Abraham for his wealth in his day, or worse today? It was enormous, and so was that of Job. If not, why not? Abraham was a friend of God. Are you? Is there some jealousy or covetousness at hand among those condemning people blessed by God?

Some folks here hate the idea of tithing to support ministry. They like the idea of tipping a church a few bucks once in a while, calling that a freewill offering that pleases God. But when a call goes out for an offering of any amount, they are offended, yet obviously are tuning in as free-loaders worried some poor widow will not be blessed for giving a dollar. How else shall anyone know of needs of ministries, but that ministers ask for offerings?

if anyone gives an offering according to the terms of 2 Cor 9, then they will be blessed to the extent of 2 Corinthians 9:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

Else the scriptures are a lie, and we all just stay home without hope. Not me! Dollar and thousands who actually apply his teachings are living proof. Dollar and the others similar to WOF are teaching it the way the Bible says it. Poor men preach poverty is a blessing, so the poor hold onto every dime they can, and remain servants to dimes, unable to give a dollar to any good cause. The numbers prove that, counting up the poor and powerless.

Giving apart from the terms of proper giving is a useless activity, devoid of blessing.

Hate tithing? Hate biblical offerings? Hate people who are giving away millions a year to other people? What else is hated here?

Personally I don't have a problem with anyone being rich, unless they got it by shearing the flock.

2 Corinthians 9:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

Are you advocating that everyone will be financially wealthy by the use of the above scripture? 2Cor.8:2 says just he opposite.

 

[FancyNancy]

Robert Morris is the ideal giver and receiver and you never hear any controversy surrounding him. Why is that?

Give the world a few turns. It will happen. Sin-sick and envious minds can't stop with this stuff. The godly are fair game and their righteousness is rich fodder in these end times of cold hearts and rudderless folk.

 

[vic1980]

The wicked:

Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

The Righteous in Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 13:5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for He has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Isn't this Great NEWS

 

[ladylynn]

The truth of the matter is money is not evil, it is the LOVE of it. Money is a good servant but makes a horrible master. Those who can't handle money properly are afraid of it because it has mastered them. To those who make it their servant and give it back to God for the use of His work have mastered it and watched it flow into and out of their daily lives. We are to hold it with a lose hand., God has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness. He has made us stewards of many blessings.

 

[vic1980]

2 Peter 2

False Prophets

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

The Godly will Be Delivered

7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Profane and Blasphemous Seducers

10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Shalom