Young Earth Creation. Does it matter what you believe?

[JackH]

i also have to help you when you're right...

show some intellectual initiative and do your own homework for a change...

You wouldn't believe how long it took me to find this anti-Dr. Dino post of yours:

well hovind doesn't look so 'good' when you get a sample of some of the -other- things he has said...that popeye conveniently omitted from his online reenactment of noah's flood...

for example...

"I do not pay any money to the IRS for the same reason I do not pay the Italian or French government money; I do not owe them any!"

"I have not filed a 1040 form or kept tax records for over 25 years since no law requires me to do this. Call the IRS and tell them to arrest me if I am breaking a law!"

the second quotation is ironic because someone actually -did- call the IRS and told them to arrest hovind...be careful what you wish for...

and then you have false teaching...such as hovind joining in the harold camping game of 'date setting'...

"When is The Lord Coming Back?"
"During the feast of Trumpets in 2028."

unbiblical...criminal...and an embarassment to christianity...that is kent hovind...

 

[wildfry]

sorry for late reply, it was late here in Asia so went to bed. I went because it is called the oldest temple in the world and if its dates were correct it not only had implications for creation theory but even the current assumptions about the advent of agriculture which is put at 10,000 years ago. I have also visited Baalbek, which was the home of Baal, hated by Yahweh, and mentioned 120 times in the bible. There is evidence of child sacrifice there and the foundation stones are over 800 tons. It brings the bible alive when you visit these places.

 

[mwc68]

Just want you to think this out because I didn't. I have (past tense) ignored E_G. It was a mistake. I judged too quickly. (I also think E_G judges too quickly at times too.) So, recommendation -- don''t ignore until all other options have been exhausted. Disagreement is a dumb reason to ignore. Just something from someone who has made the same mistake.

For the record i don't ignore people. I was just trying to make a point that if a person calls for another to be ignored, maybe they should be ignored.

 

[Crustyone]

If you believe what the bible says, it doesn't matter how long a day is. God created everything, even the things we measure the universe with. He could have created only light for anything that seems more than 10,000 light years away, so it is possible that our universe is only a 20,000 light year big globe around our solar system. The same goes for the carbon dating and animal bones and carcasses we find. What we find over the age of when Adam and Eve lived were made to measure as older by our creator to confuse the unbelievers, the same as He will do when Satan reveals himself in 2 Thessalonians 9-12.

 

[Bowman]

Study up...

the hebrew word for the making of the sun and moon and stars on day 4 is 'asa'...

'asa' is also used in genesis 1:26 when God expresses his intention of making humans...but genesis 1:27 then says God created humans and uses the term 'bara' to refer to that creation...

so the two terms are synonyms...you are insisting on a distinction that the text simply does not make...

No.

The two verbs are NOT synonyms of each other...not according to any Hebrew grammar or lexicon.

'Asah' imparts the bringing forth of something that has been made from existing materials.

'Bara' means to create something brand new.

Creation 'Day 4' does NOT inform the reader that the sun and moon were created at that time - but that they became visible from the earth's surface, from which the Gen narrative takes place, and, as the context dictates, provides the reason for being able to see the light as it regulates the seasons and bio clocks of the advanced life forms which require it.

Likewise, in the discussion of man, we would predict that homo sapiens sapiens would utilize both creation verbs as we share the same existing building blocks as that of the animal kingdom which came before us. At the same time, we contain something brand new, a Spirit.

the two terms are also used synonymously in genesis 2:4...

Gen four literally kills your YEC assertion, as it now mandates that the previous '6 Days' are ONE 'Day'.

So much for your YEC worldview.

That's on you...

 

[JackH]

i consider hovind to be a fraud...and not because of his stand on often shaky arguments that smart biblical creationists avoid...

hovind is a fraud because he is a convicted and unrepentant tax criminal...his doctorate comes from an unaccredited mail order diploma mill...and he teaches false doctrine such as setting the date for christ's return as during the feast of tabernacles in 2028...

and for the record...hovind did not 'stand up to the IRS'...hovind carried out his financial transactions in a way that served no conceivable practical purpose other than to deceive the IRS and mislead them about how much taxable money was flowing through his organization...

Very true.

 

[JackH]

The scientist who proved some of the dinosaurs were warm-blooded is a YEC.

What scientist is that?

I wasn't aware that it has conclusively been proven that some dinosaurs were warm-blooded.

You can provide a source for such information of course.

What is that source?

Another Ellen G. White vision?

Like where you YECS get your flood geology from?

 

[valiant]

What scientist is that?

I wasn't aware that it has conclusively been proven that some dinosaurs were warm-blooded.

You can provide a source for such information of course.

What is that source?

Another Ellen G. White vision?

Like where you YECS get your flood geology from?

LOL a crocodile is a dinosaur

 

[popeye]

Re: Study up...

No.

The two verbs are NOT synonyms of each other...not according to any Hebrew grammar or lexicon.

'Asah' imparts the bringing forth of something that has been made from existing materials.

'Bara' means to create something brand new.

Creation 'Day 4' does NOT inform the reader that the sun and moon were created at that time - but that they became visible from the earth's surface, from which the Gen narrative takes place, and, as the context dictates, provides the reason for being able to see the light as it regulates the seasons and bio clocks of the advanced life forms which require it.

Likewise, in the discussion of man, we would predict that homo sapiens sapiens would utilize both creation verbs as we share the same existing building blocks as that of the animal kingdom which came before us. At the same time, we contain something brand new, a Spirit.












Gen four literally kills your YEC assertion, as it now mandates that the previous '6 Days' are ONE 'Day'.

So much for your YEC worldview.

That's on you...

Look up "day" in hebrew.

Rethink your findings

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Okay, so I thought archaeologists were pretty good with post-flood carbon dating as well as figuring out where an historic site fits into history. (And history in comparison to prehistory judged by when we have the most ancient of writings.) So, why would they think it's younger than Moses if it's antediluvian?

Still, totally cool if that is it. lol

the tower of babel was not antediluvian...

scholars are not sure when etemenanki was actually built...we know that it was not -destroyed- until after the time of moses...but many scholars think it was already built before the second millennium BC...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

who likes supernovae?

this is kind of a thick read, but understandable without any special background, and IMO, pretty interesting.

Supernovae, Supernova Remnants and Young Earth Creationism FAQ

the numbers are a bit off in a couple places, since the link was last updated in 2003, and since that time, more pointed & dedicated searches of the sky have gotten underway, bringing the number of observed supernova into the thousands (instead of around 200, as described in the link). over a thousand new supernovae were discovered in 2012 alone.
also, another study published in 2006 pinned the rate of supernova events in the milky way much closer to 1 every 50 years ((total, not observable)).
there may be other updates, but that's all i'm aware of at the moment.

my understanding is that we don't know enough about the frequency of supernovae or the amount of time it takes for supernova remnants to dissipate to actually use them to argue anything with certainty regarding the age of the universe...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Let's see your research papers.

If they are the same ones you cited before you are going to have a big problem.

mary schweitzer reported finding evidence of DNA in dinosaur fossils in her paper 'molecular analyses of dinosaur osteocytes support the presence of endogenous molecules'

allentoft et al determined that DNA does not last longer than 6.8 million years in their paper 'the half-life of DNA in bone: measuring decay kinetics in 158 dated fossils'

 

[valiant]

Re: Study up...

Look up "day" in hebrew.

Rethink your findings

yes yom means a period of light. it also means a non-specified length of time. nowhere that I know of does it mean 24 hour day.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Do a significant number of well-known YECs identify themselves as IDers?

And what about the scam with the Panda book?

That stuff is hilarious.

Here come da judge, from his opinion:

[TABLE="class: cquote"]
[TR]
[TD]As Plaintiffs meticulously and effectively presented to the Court, Pandas went through many drafts, several of which were completed prior to and some after the Supreme Court's decision in Edwards, which held that the Constitution forbids teaching creationism as science. By comparing the pre and post Edwards drafts of Pandas, three astonishing points emerge: (1) the definition for creation science in early drafts is identical to the definition of ID; (2) cognates of the word creation (creationism and creationist), which appeared approximately 150 times, were deliberately and systematically replaced with the phrase ID; and (3) the changes occurred shortly after the Supreme Court held that creation science is religious and cannot be taught in public school science classes in Edwards. This word substitution is telling, significant, and reveals that a purposeful change of words was effected without any corresponding change in content .... The weight of the evidence clearly demonstrates, as noted, that the systemic change from "creation" to "intelligent design" occurred sometime in 1987, after the Supreme Court's important Edwards decision.
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]”[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cquotecite, colspan: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

intelligent design is a type of creationism...specifically it is a form of -old earth- creationism...the views of intelligent design theorists fall somewhere between progressive creationism and theistic evolution...and they believe the earth is billions of years old...

in fact young earth creationists frequently -criticize- the intelligent design movement because it -isn't- young earth creationism!

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Where might be your reference for this assertion?

the article 'hugh ross, neanderthals and trusting changing science' in 'the examiner' reports ross still making outdated statements about neanderthals in his lectures as of just over a month ago...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Re: Study up...

No.

The two verbs are NOT synonyms of each other...not according to any Hebrew grammar or lexicon.

'Asah' imparts the bringing forth of something that has been made from existing materials.

'Bara' means to create something brand new.

Creation 'Day 4' does NOT inform the reader that the sun and moon were created at that time - but that they became visible from the earth's surface, from which the Gen narrative takes place, and, as the context dictates, provides the reason for being able to see the light as it regulates the seasons and bio clocks of the advanced life forms which require it.

Likewise, in the discussion of man, we would predict that homo sapiens sapiens would utilize both creation verbs as we share the same existing building blocks as that of the animal kingdom which came before us. At the same time, we contain something brand new, a Spirit.












Gen four literally kills your YEC assertion, as it now mandates that the previous '6 Days' are ONE 'Day'.

So much for your YEC worldview.

That's on you...

'bara' and 'asah' are used synonymously in genesis 1 and in other scripture texts that refer to the creation account...

the fact is that the biblical usage of these two terms is a lot more loose than you imagine...

for example...

genesis 5:2..."He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created."

the word 'created' here is 'bara' again...yet male and female were clearly -not- 'something brand new'

and if you insist on your definition of 'asah' when you read genesis 5:1 you might just turn mormon on us...

finally exodus 20:11 uses the word 'asah' regarding -everything- in genesis 1...including things whose creation in genesis 1 are described using the term 'bara'...

oh and 'in the day' is known to be a hebrew idiom meaning simply 'at the time'...this is different from numbered days which referred to definite points in time...

 

[flob]

When different words for 'made,' though, are used side by side, then a difference in meaning is intended or highlighted.
That's why immediate context, in language, is always first

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

What scientist is that?

I wasn't aware that it has conclusively been proven that some dinosaurs were warm-blooded.

You can provide a source for such information of course.

What is that source?

Another Ellen G. White vision?

Like where you YECS get your flood geology from?

it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that some dinosaurs had the circulatory system of a warm blooded animal...

but i don't know if any young earth creationists were involved in that research...it wouldn't surprise me though since many of the phd scientists in the young earth creationist movement have done important work in many fields...

 

[valiant]

Re: Study up...

'bara' and 'asah' are used synonymously in genesis 1 and in other scripture texts that refer to the creation account...

the fact is that the biblical usage of these two terms is a lot more loose than you imagine...

for example...

genesis 5:2..."He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created."

the word 'created' here is 'bara' again...yet male and female were clearly -not- 'something brand new'

and if you insist on your definition of 'asah' when you read genesis 5:1 you might just turn mormon on us...

finally exodus 20:11 uses the word 'asah' regarding -everything- in genesis 1...including things whose creation in genesis 1 are described using the term 'bara'...

oh and 'in the day' is known to be a hebrew idiom meaning simply 'at the time'...this is different from numbered days which referred to definite points in time...

well I must agree that bara is unique. it always signifies creation out of nothing. thus it is used of initial creation, the creation of life, and the creation of man. asah has a wider use and can signify 'fashioned, formed, made'.

because it is more general it can replace bara

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

When different words for 'made,' though, are used side by side, then a difference in meaning is intended or highlighted.

not necessarily...using different terms purely for the sake of literary variety is a known practice in ancient literature...

words appearing side by side in very similar usages and contexts can also just mean that the author considered those words to be close enough in meaning that they could be used synonymously in that context...

for example...
'something really strange happened today...it was really bizarre to see'