where does it say in bible Jesus said hes God???
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Absolutely...
'Allah' and his Messenger....which is Jesus.
We must remember that the authors of the Koran were early Arab Christians.
As such, the Koran is actually paraphrased and out of order Biblical material, set to rhyme in Arabic, for an Arabic audience.
In the case of The Trinity, the Koranic examples are prefaced by informing the reader what the 'disbelievers said'...and then follow up with (for example) that the Trinity is NOT the worship including Mary, etc....of which, Trinitarians would agree.
Islam is the worlds largest Christian cult...and they have done an absolutely abysmal job at interpreting their scripture set - which has always been Christian in nature....
'Allah' and his Messenger....which is Jesus.
We must remember that the authors of the Koran were early Arab Christians.
As such, the Koran is actually paraphrased and out of order Biblical material, set to rhyme in Arabic, for an Arabic audience.
In the case of The Trinity, the Koranic examples are prefaced by informing the reader what the 'disbelievers said'...and then follow up with (for example) that the Trinity is NOT the worship including Mary, etc....of which, Trinitarians would agree.
Islam is the worlds largest Christian cult...and they have done an absolutely abysmal job at interpreting their scripture set - which has always been Christian in nature....
I do not think anyone is questioning the truth that the Comma Johanneum presents because it can be verified from other scripture. All we are questioning is the presence of these two verse in the modern text when there is almost no early manuscript evidence to verify their existence prior to the 10th century.
P
Wow,these were my questions also when I came to the Lord.
The reason he had to die was the requirement of God,for man's sin.
It goes back to adam,and it goes back to abraham.
Through adam,all his offspring carry with them the "adamic" sin/transgression.
Through the innocent blood,sins are remitted/atoned for/forgiven.
That is why it had to be God on the cross,and why only God could resurrect and bring us to Jehovah.
This is the beauty of the message of Jesus. That he could die for the whole world,...and he was WILLING to do that.
This is the love of God.
The reason he had to die was the requirement of God,for man's sin.
It goes back to adam,and it goes back to abraham.
Through adam,all his offspring carry with them the "adamic" sin/transgression.
Through the innocent blood,sins are remitted/atoned for/forgiven.
That is why it had to be God on the cross,and why only God could resurrect and bring us to Jehovah.
This is the beauty of the message of Jesus. That he could die for the whole world,...and he was WILLING to do that.
This is the love of God.
S
Hi Ahmed,
Christianity teaches that there is only one God, like Islam. The difference is that we teach there are three Persons within the one God.
One comparison is that pure light is composed of red, green, and blue light. Each of the three does not exist apart from the others, and they combine to form pure light.
Regarding why Christ came to die, he came to die for our sin, to allow us to be forgiven and restored to a good relationship with God. We have all sinned, and God is holy and just. His justness requires that he punishes sin. His mercy and love provided a means for us to be forgiven for sin.
Scripture calls him the Lamb of God. The animal sacrifices of the Old Testament pointed toward Christ and his sacrifice. I believe that is probably where Mohammad got the idea for the sacrifice which occurs on Eid for the forgiveness of sin. An innocent, sinless Lamb died on our behalf, and that is Jesus.
So, God maintains his justness by punishing sin, but also maintains his mercy and love by providing a means for forgiveness by sending Jesus Christ, his Son, who is God as well, to suffered the punishment on our behalf.
I have a friend who knows Arabic and is a Christian if you need to have it explained to you in Arabic. He is a former Muslim. He is on this site.
Christianity teaches that there is only one God, like Islam. The difference is that we teach there are three Persons within the one God.
One comparison is that pure light is composed of red, green, and blue light. Each of the three does not exist apart from the others, and they combine to form pure light.
Regarding why Christ came to die, he came to die for our sin, to allow us to be forgiven and restored to a good relationship with God. We have all sinned, and God is holy and just. His justness requires that he punishes sin. His mercy and love provided a means for us to be forgiven for sin.
Scripture calls him the Lamb of God. The animal sacrifices of the Old Testament pointed toward Christ and his sacrifice. I believe that is probably where Mohammad got the idea for the sacrifice which occurs on Eid for the forgiveness of sin. An innocent, sinless Lamb died on our behalf, and that is Jesus.
So, God maintains his justness by punishing sin, but also maintains his mercy and love by providing a means for forgiveness by sending Jesus Christ, his Son, who is God as well, to suffered the punishment on our behalf.
I have a friend who knows Arabic and is a Christian if you need to have it explained to you in Arabic. He is a former Muslim. He is on this site.
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B
Trinity, basically, means we have one God who shows himself in three different forms. All are just one. Like the moon is still the moon even if it's full or part or in eclipse. That's the easiest way I can explain, I'm not good at explaining things.
As far as Jesus being killed, Jesus was the final sacrifice to God to make up for people's sins. God required sacrifice for our sins just as Jacob was going to sacrifice his son before stopped by God. It was to show the need for blood sacrifice and is why so much scripture involves giving animals for sacrifice. Jesus was the final sacrifice to pay for EVERYONE'S sins. Not because God is weak or couldn't save Himself but He was the last sacrifice for everyone to allow everyone who believes to live in heaven.
I'm sure far more people can explain better than I can but that's the easiest way for me.
As far as Jesus being killed, Jesus was the final sacrifice to God to make up for people's sins. God required sacrifice for our sins just as Jacob was going to sacrifice his son before stopped by God. It was to show the need for blood sacrifice and is why so much scripture involves giving animals for sacrifice. Jesus was the final sacrifice to pay for EVERYONE'S sins. Not because God is weak or couldn't save Himself but He was the last sacrifice for everyone to allow everyone who believes to live in heaven.
I'm sure far more people can explain better than I can but that's the easiest way for me.
E
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
GODHEAD/TRINITY
Blessings!!!!!!!
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
GODHEAD/TRINITY
Blessings!!!!!!!
Sura 108
الكوثر
“Alkawthara”
“The River in Paradise”
(Named in honor of the Biblical Heaven)
Holding true to the warning given in the final chapter of Revelation, in which nothing should be added or subtracted from this Revelation to John, the authors who penned the Koran did just that, and simply paraphrased portions of Revelation while at the same time taking great liberties in mixing and matching its original order.
Once it is understood that legions of Koranic suras have been entirely composed of rewritten apocalyptic scripture, it then becomes quite clear that the heart of the intended Koranic message is a purely Biblical one, and is simply another delivery method for proclaiming Jesus as Lord.
Among numerous other things, sura 108 undeniably confirms to us these key points:
Summary:
108.1 Truly we gave you the River in Paradise. (Jesus provides the Water of Life in Heaven)
108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice. (Jesus, as the sacrificial Lamb, is worshiped)
108.3 Truly your hater and enemy, he,the serpent. (Satan, the enemy to the followers of Jesus Christ)
الكوثر
“Alkawthara”
“The River in Paradise”
(Named in honor of the Biblical Heaven)
Holding true to the warning given in the final chapter of Revelation, in which nothing should be added or subtracted from this Revelation to John, the authors who penned the Koran did just that, and simply paraphrased portions of Revelation while at the same time taking great liberties in mixing and matching its original order.
Once it is understood that legions of Koranic suras have been entirely composed of rewritten apocalyptic scripture, it then becomes quite clear that the heart of the intended Koranic message is a purely Biblical one, and is simply another delivery method for proclaiming Jesus as Lord.
Among numerous other things, sura 108 undeniably confirms to us these key points:
- Only Jesus is the giver of eternal life
- Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb
- Jesus is worshiped as God
Summary:
108.1 Truly we gave you the River in Paradise. (Jesus provides the Water of Life in Heaven)
108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice. (Jesus, as the sacrificial Lamb, is worshiped)
108.3 Truly your hater and enemy, he,the serpent. (Satan, the enemy to the followers of Jesus Christ)
S
Hi Bowman,
I just want to clarify that you are not taking a pluralistic view of Islam, but you are merely pointing out that the Quran reflects some biblical influence.
Islam is diametrically opposed to Christian doctrines such as the deity of Christ and substitutionary atonement. These are core Christian doctrines.
I do not think you can at all say that the Quran teaches the Trinity in a Christian sense. Basically you'd have to tell Muslim apologists that they don't know what the Quran teaches.
I agree that Mohammad took some of his material from the Bible. I believe you called it a Christian cult, so I agree with that assessment, but I just want to clarify that you are not saying that the Quran can lead a person to salvation.
Regards,
Robert
I just want to clarify that you are not taking a pluralistic view of Islam, but you are merely pointing out that the Quran reflects some biblical influence.
Islam is diametrically opposed to Christian doctrines such as the deity of Christ and substitutionary atonement. These are core Christian doctrines.
I do not think you can at all say that the Quran teaches the Trinity in a Christian sense. Basically you'd have to tell Muslim apologists that they don't know what the Quran teaches.
I agree that Mohammad took some of his material from the Bible. I believe you called it a Christian cult, so I agree with that assessment, but I just want to clarify that you are not saying that the Quran can lead a person to salvation.
Regards,
Robert
S
Where are you getting this argument that the authors of the Quran were early Arab Christians?
They most certainly were not.
If you read the Quran, it says clearly that it was not Jesus who died on the Cross, but some other man. In addition, as I mentioned before, they clearly deny the deity of Christ.
Surah 4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain
Islam outright denies the crucifixion, which is the core of Christianity.
They most certainly were not.
If you read the Quran, it says clearly that it was not Jesus who died on the Cross, but some other man. In addition, as I mentioned before, they clearly deny the deity of Christ.
Surah 4:157 And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain
Islam outright denies the crucifixion, which is the core of Christianity.
K
When they arrested Him. He said "I AM"- which is God's name. I know that it meant more than answering in attendance, because of the reaction of the soiliers falling to the ground when He said it. Also, when the apostles worshipped Him in Matthew 28, around verse 17 I believe. He did not correct them. Yet Jesus sharply corrected in Matthew 4, saying to worship God only. And in revelation the angel sharply corrected John for worshipful him, also saying only God is to be worshipped. By not correcting them, He agreed that He is Deity.
Hi Robert...
Some influence...?
My research shows that >75% of the Koran is paraphrased Biblical Book of Revelation material, alone...
Islam is...but the Koran is not.
These are two completely different items.
I have spent the better part of the past twenty years wiping the floor with Muslim scholars...
No one named 'Muhammad' had anything at all to do with the Koran, according to the Koran, itself.
In fact, the term was a participle at the time that the Koran was penned, and is actually an epithet for the Biblical Jesus Christ.
The Koran never claims to be divinely inspired.
It does, however, point the reader back to its Biblical source.
Its a matter of historical record.
The only literate people in ancient Arabia were Jews and Christians.....couple this with the fact that the Koran proclaims all the same Biblical facts that Jesus is God, etc, etc....then that leaves only Christians to have penned the text...
When asked about Jesus’ Crucifixion, Muslims will invariably reference one ayah from the Koran, to support their conviction.
Islam bases an entire doctrine regarding Jesus’ crucifixion & death upon the cross, on a single solitary Koranic ayah.
And in this single solitary ayah, the entire doctrine teeters upon the rendering of a single solitary word (wama) – which Islam has misinterpreted as a negative.
The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…
Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan
4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son,“allah's”messenger”,and that they killed him,and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not indoubt from Him,on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.
The only literate people in ancient Arabia were Jews and Christians.....couple this with the fact that the Koran proclaims all the same Biblical facts that Jesus is God, etc, etc....then that leaves only Christians to have penned the text...
When asked about Jesus’ Crucifixion, Muslims will invariably reference one ayah from the Koran, to support their conviction.
Islam bases an entire doctrine regarding Jesus’ crucifixion & death upon the cross, on a single solitary Koranic ayah.
And in this single solitary ayah, the entire doctrine teeters upon the rendering of a single solitary word (wama) – which Islam has misinterpreted as a negative.
The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…
وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا
Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan
4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son,“allah's”messenger”,and that they killed him,and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not indoubt from Him,on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.
Glory be to Him the uncreated Son
39.4
لو أراد الله أن يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق ما
يشاء سبحنه هو الله الوحد القهار
يشاء سبحنه هو الله الوحد القهار
39.4 Although“allah”he intended that he takes a Son; he has not chosen from that which he creates, (but) what he wills,glory be to Him; he,allah”, the one,the supreme.
39.4 is yet another clear Arabic ayah that boldly proclaims that Jesus is the Son.
In fact, it is stated that “he intended” (“arada” – completed action) that he takes (“yattakhitha”) a Son.
The stipulation being that the Son does not come from anything that is created (“yakhluqu”).
This should sound extremely familiar, as it proclaims that the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) is uncreated!
A Son that has always existed.
Further, the very next ayah, 39.5, point-blank tells us that the Son is Jesus Christ as thus…
خلق السموت والأرض بالحق يكور اليل على النهار ويكور النهار على اليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لأجل مسمى ألا هو العزيز الغفر
Khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi yukawwiru allayla AAala alnnahari wayukawwiru alnnahara AAala allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree li-ajalin musamman ala huwa alAAazeezu alghaffaru
39.5 He created the heavens and the earth through ‘The Truth’. He causes to revolvethe night ontothe day,and He causes to revolvethe dayonto the night,and He made subservientthe sun and the moon, each pursues its courseto a fixed and appointed term, is He not the all-mighty, the most protecting one?
This ayah tells us that “allah” created the known Universe with the help of ‘The Truth’.
It is already a very well established fact that ‘The Truth’ is repeatedly mentioned as a deity attribute of Jesus Christ in both the Holy Bible as well as the Koran.
Now…once again… “allah” is shown to be in need of assistance in creating the Universe.
The assistance of the Son.