Pride goes before destruction

[Jason0047]

Dear Peter-Jens:

While I sympathize with your situation with the struggle in your family, I cannot relate to your understanding of how you view your standing in Christ as a present day sinner. That to me is a foreign concept. It is alien to me. I will never understand that because in my understanding (Both Biblically and morally), it is basically saying you can be a "bad guy" but yet you are also somehow magically a "good guy" because of Christ. Yet, nobody remains as a sinner (and lives like they used to) and is saved if they are in Christ Jesus. Being born again spiritually means you are brand new in Christ and you have new heart with new desires. You are the new man in Christ and not the old man. All things should have become new for you if you are born again by the Spirit of God. You should never feel like God will ever condone your sin by allowing you to sin (with no remorse) and still be saved. For you voted in my poll in the other said admitting that you could die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. I just do not honestly understand that. To me, that is wrong. It is immoral; And it goes against everything Christ did on the cross for us. God is Holy and He has a standard of goodness that He abides by. Why do you think God will just turn a blind eye to your wrong doings? Do you honestly think grace goes so far so as to cover willful rebellion in the present moment? Are not wicked people defined by what they do? Do you not know that there are many Commands in the Bible that will condemn a person if they do not abide by them? For Jesus said in John 12:48 that if a person rejects his words, then those very words will judge them on the last day. Jesus also defined repentance for us, too. Jesus said the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, we learn at the end of that chapter that the Ninevites had turned from their evil and wicked ways as a part of their repentance.

So I do not really understand where you are coming from. How can you say you are good when you do not do good. Is there like a real world example you can use to illustrate that? I say this because Jesus illustrated spiritual truth by way of real world examples (i.e. parables).

I say this not to get you upset but for you to be honest with yourself, the Lord, and His Word.

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you this fine day.
And please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


....

 

[ember]

Carnal Christians are those who are yet still in the flesh, not yet born again from above of the Spirit, like Saul before conversion who persecuted the children of the Spirit. Anyone who is still in the flesh, be they called Christians or not, will do the lusts of the flesh and even persecute the true born again of the Spirit Christians.

You really have not addressed what I actually asked...

are you calling carnal Christians wicked?

Please try again

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You really have not addressed what I actually asked...




Please try again

Here's the word, you decide.

1 John 3:7-10 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

 

[Utah]

Dear Desired Haven:

Thank you for your testimony. I suppose I needed to hear it from a fellow believer who believes as I do. But is it also possible for a person to be depressed as a part of one's choice to be depressed. too? I know I was depressed when I thought about suicide when I was in my high school years. I thought nobody loved me and there was no chance I was going to ever be loved. For me, it was a choice and not a disease. But now, I can see how it can be both, though. Thank you for your words.

This is the crux of the problem. It took someone who is usually very much in agreement with you to teach you that you're wrong. You refuse to listen and learn from people with differing views. This is known as pride, arrogance, and the very definition of self righteousness.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so if you start listening to us "broken clocks" once in a while you'll learn more than you think you already know.

 

[Jason0047]

You really have not addressed what I actually asked...

Please try again

Yes, he is saying Carnal Christians are wicked by that verse because well.... they do wickedness. God is not a respecter of persons. Anyone who does wickedness is wicked. That's morality 101.

Antinomian Excuse #1:

"Look at those carnal Corinthian Christians - some of them are fornicators, others are full of envy and strife. This is proof that we can sin and still be Christians." ~ 1 Corinthians 3.

The Biblical Response:

The question we need to be asking is, what does Paul say about these sinners "among them"? Are they right with God or not, righteous or unrighteous? Are they heavenbound or hellbound? Are they true saints, or imposters? (The word saint, let it be understood, is the Greek word hagios, which means "blameless ones".)

Notice also that he does not call them babes in Christ in I Corinthians 3, but says he must speak to them as babes in Christ. It is acceptable to address babes in Christ as babes in Christ, but there is something wrong if you have to address saints whose maturity is overdue as "babes in Christ". It is abnormal for even baby Christians to resist maturity. Maturity is growth in knowledge and wisdom, not growth in obedience (Hebrews 5:12-14). Paul cannot address the corporate Corinthian church as spiritual men with Christ-like minds, but as natural, carnal men. This is an important point because some of these professing Christians are bringing forth evidence that they are not in Christ at all! Paul's words serve as a rebuke (albeit a mild rebuke) to these men because their maturity is long overdue; they should have moved to meat by this point. "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able." Do you sense his frustration? "There is a problem here," he is trying to say. "This is not the way it should be if you are truly Christians." That these professing Christians "receiveth not the things of God" reveals their carnal, natural, fleshly minds, as opposed to spiritual, Christ-like minds which they should have if they are truly in the faith.

 

[ember]

Here's the word, you decide.

1 John 3:7-10 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

I know the Word...and He knows me.

Are YOU calling believers, you describe as carnal, wicked?

What is manifest in your answer, is your desire for honesty even if it means repentance before your Creator.

Do you have that in you? Is your soul worth more then clever answers that do not answer?

 

[JesusLives]

Are those little flip flop cookies? How cute. I used to live in Florida, what part of Florida you from?

Was in St. Petersburg for 24 years and have been in Clearwater since 2003....Love it here in the winter not so much in the summer.... What part of Florida were you in?

 

[Jason0047]

This is the crux of the problem. It took someone who is usually very much in agreement with you to teach you that you're wrong. You refuse to listen and learn from people with differing views. This is known as pride, arrogance, and the very definition of self righteousness.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so if you start listening to us "broken clocks" once in a while you'll learn more than you think you already know.

Well, if you were to keep reading in the conversation, she said for me to keep with the Word of God and not to even trust her feelings or testimony on the matter. So I did some digging and have discovered that depression can in fact be from an evil spirit (and not from some brain disease). Granted, I am not completely denying the possibility that a brain disease can effect someone to be deppressed. But I see the problem being more of a spiritual one than a physical one. Sin had effected all of mankind. Sin still effects mankind today. Sin destroys both spiritually and physically. So the solution either way is Jesus Christ.

As for trusting: I only trust those who believe as I do according to the Bible because they are my true brothers and sisters. There is nothing wrong with trusting those in the faith versus say trusting some person who is outside of the faith (Whereby I cannot tell their motives because of their wrong beliefs).

So have I changed my position? Let's just say I am open to the possibility now, but I am more sold on what the Bible says on these matters than what people say personally. For that is where I focus should be. The Bible.

As for your wrong claims that I was being prideful, etc., well, I was trusting in God's Word by faith. I do not see that as being prideful. It is simply would be a matter of faith and belief. Also, the fact, that I am still keeping an open mind that people could be effected by some kind of mental disease shows that I am a good Berean who is open minded to what people have to say. I just would need to search the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not.

Anyways, may God's love and peace shine upon you.
And I hope that clears up any confusion you are having about me.

 

[Jason0047]

I know the Word...and He knows me.

Are YOU calling believers, you describe as carnal, wicked?

What is manifest in your answer, is your desire for honesty even if it means repentance before your Creator.

Do you have that in you? Is your soul worth more then clever answers that do not answer?

Jesus did not always give a straight and direct answer. It's why he spoke in parables. But if you really need a straight answer,.... well.... I just explained to you in straight direct way what he had said.

But the reason why he replied as he did is because he wants you to get you to think about what the Word of God is actually saying.

 

[JesusLives]

The depression came up because me and Jason started talking about it, and his pride got the better of him when he tried to prove his stance by stating depression is a choice.

He needs to watch what he says and find out the truth before he speaks, and not to debate with others who experience this disease first hand by family members that have it. His pride wants to make forgivable situations to be unforgivable.......

Terribly sorry that your wife deals with depression....When I was 40 I was overwhelmed with life on all fronts, family, work, relationship.....to the point of attempted suicide and diagnosed with sever depression....Baker Acted into the hospital and was on pills for 18 months....The only time in my life I rode in the back seat of a police car....being transported to the hospital...

Depression is no joke and no sin either.....I can't thank God enough for saving my life....I attempted in the end of September and this Sept. will be 20 years that God extended my life that I would have ended had I been successful...I am so thankful He helped me live.

 

[Sirk]

Well, if you were to keep reading in the conversation, she said for me to keep with the Word of God and not to even trust her feelings or testimony on the matter. So I did some digging and have discovered that depression can in fact be from an evil spirit (and not from some brain disease). Granted, I am not completely denying the possibility that a brain disease can effect someone to be deppressed. But I see the problem being more of a spiritual one than a physical one. Sin had effected all of mankind. Sin still effects mankind today. Sin destroys both spiritually and physically. So the solution either way is Jesus Christ.

As for trusting: I only trust those who believe as I do according to the Bible because they are my true brothers and sisters. There is nothing wrong with trusting those in the faith versus say trusting some person who is outside of the faith (Whereby I cannot tell their motives because of their wrong beliefs).

So have I changed my position? Let's just say I am open to the possibility now, but I am more sold on what the Bible says on these matters than what people say personally. For that is where I focus should be. The Bible.

As for your wrong claims that I was being prideful, etc., well, I was trusting in God's Word by faith. I do not see that as being prideful. It is simply would be a matter of faith and belief. Also, the fact, that I am still keeping an open mind that people could be effected by some kind of mental disease shows that I am a good Berean who is open minded to what people have to say. I just would need to search the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not.

Anyways, may God's love and peace shine upon you.
And I hope that clears up any confusion you are having about me.

I got to the part where you said that you only trust people that think the way you do and I went wow. This guy only trusts people who support his views. You do realize that that is sinful don't you? Lol

 

[ember]

New American Standard Bible
"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.


King James Bible
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 15:5

 

[Jason0047]

Terribly sorry that your wife deals with depression....When I was 40 I was overwhelmed with life on all fronts, family, work, relationship.....to the point of attempted suicide and diagnosed with sever depression....Baker Acted into the hospital and was on pills for 18 months....The only time in my life I rode in the back seat of a police car....being transported to the hospital...

Depression is no joke and no sin either.....I can't thank God enough for saving my life....I attempted in the end of September and this Sept. will be 20 years that God extended my life that I would have ended had I been successful...I am so thankful He helped me live.

Depression is the result of living in a sinful world that is under the control of the wicked one. For depression can be the result of wrong choices and or evil spirits. As for depression being a mental disease or sickness? I am not ruling that possibility out, (completely) but I am still researching Scripture on this one and asking God for wisdom and understanding to learn more about it.

 

[Jason0047]

I got to the part where you said that you only trust people that think the way you do and I went wow. This guy only trusts people who support his views. You do realize that that is sinful don't you? Lol

No. "Being a respecter of persons" has to do with how we love others equally and how we hold all people to the same standard of morality and goodness. Obviously it is not wrong for me to not trust the devil or his minions. It is also not wrong for me to trust in Biblical cult groups in what they say, either. We are to hold fast to that which is good. We are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather, reprove them.

 

[JesusLives]

If the depression is honestly a mental disorder due to a chemical inbalance in the brain then by all means, they cannot be held accountable for such a thing. I am open minded; And I am willing to consider your side of things. But yet I know from experience that deppression can be behavioral. So even if what you say is true, I believe most deppression is brought about by people choosing to be that way. Anyways, I will pray about it and keep open to it.

Trust me just be thankful that God has kept you from depression. It is a chemical imbalance trust me.... If you met me in person before my suicide attempt you would have known most of my life I was the Happy kid... At 8 I found my mom dead and it was a rough few years as a lot of crying went on after that even when someone would mention her name I would burst into tears. That certainly was not a sin nor the cause of my sin in anyway....

After coming to grips with the reality that she was gone I again became the Happy kid I had been and at 12 my Father died from cancer leaving me an orphan....I didn't cry as much when Dad died as at that point I was groomed to accept that death exists and not much I can do about it.....

If you would ask my friends or family they would say I am the Happy one laughing All The Time even when they don't think things are funny... It is how I normally deal with things using laughter....Because who wants to be around a sad sack? Not many people do and a lot of times people avoid sad depressed people....

I was on the pills for 18 months to help get my chemicals in my brain back to normal levels and since my treatment and several Doctor visits I have been as normal as this Blond will ever get.... Depression is not a sin it is symptom of problems that need to be dealt with....mine and many others it is a chemical imbalance....

I am that Happy person again, and I will be the first to tell you that sadness can lurk just below the surface of happy.... But Praise God He is my Joy now and forever more....

 

[Jason0047]

Trust me just be thankful that God has kept you from depression. It is a chemical imbalance trust me.... If you met me in person before my suicide attempt you would have known most of my life I was the Happy kid... At 8 I found my mom dead and it was a rough few years as a lot of crying went on after that even when someone would mention her name I would burst into tears. That certainly was not a sin nor the cause of my sin in anyway....

After coming to grips with the reality that she was gone I again became the Happy kid I had been and at 12 my Father died from cancer leaving me an orphan....I didn't cry as much when Dad died as at that point I was groomed to accept that death exists and not much I can do about it.....

If you would ask my friends or family they would say I am the Happy one laughing All The Time even when they don't think things are funny... It is how I normally deal with things using laughter....Because who wants to be around a sad sack? Not many people do and a lot of times people avoid sad depressed people....

I was on the pills for 18 months to help get my chemicals in my brain back to normal levels and since my treatment and several Doctor visits I have been as normal as this Blond will ever get.... Depression is not a sin it is symptom of problems that need to be dealt with....mine and many others it is a chemical imbalance....

I am that Happy person again, and I will be the first to tell you that sadness can lurk just below the surface of happy.... But Praise God He is my Joy now and forever more....

While I am not completely discounting the possibility, how do you know the doctors were telling you the truth? Maybe it was an evil spirit that was afflicting you instead. The pills could have just broke that evil spirit to get you to continue in your happy thoughts again. The thing is, we just cannot really know all the factors involved (unless God shows us by His Word) or until we are faced before Christ when all things are revealed.

 

[Jason0047]

No. "Being a respecter of persons" has to do with how we love others equally and how we hold all people to the same standard of morality and goodness. Obviously it is not wrong for me to not trust the devil or his minions. It is also not wrong for me to trust in Biblical cult groups in what they say, either. We are to hold fast to that which is good. We are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather, reprove them.

Meant to say....not to trust in Biblical cult groups.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I know the Word...and He knows me.

Are YOU calling believers, you describe as carnal, wicked?

What is manifest in your answer, is your desire for honesty even if it means repentance before your Creator.

Do you have that in you? Is your soul worth more then clever answers that do not answer?

Your motivation here is not to know the Truth, but to try to accuse me by your line of questioning. This the Lord revealed to me when you first tried to sway my words with your line of questions.

Luke 11:54
Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.

Have a nice day.

 

[JesusLives]

Trying to get the train back on the tracks....a few words about Pride.

I will break down your stubborn pride. Leviticus 26:19

The pride of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks and make your home on the heights, you who say to yourself, ‘Who can bring me down to the ground?’ Obadiah 1:3

His pride led to his downfall. He was unfaithful to the LORD his God. 2 Chronicles 26:16

In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. Psalm 10:4

For the sins of their mouths, for the words of their lips, let them be caught in their pride. Psalm 59:12

When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. Proverbs 11:2

Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice. Proverbs 13:10

Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. Proverbs 16:18

A man’s pride brings him low, but a man of lowly spirit gains honor. Proverbs 29:23

The end of a matter is better than its beginning, and patience is better than pride. Ecclesiastes 7:8

The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day. Isaiah 2:11

I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. Isaiah 13:11

Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the glory of the Babylonians’ pride, will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah. Isaiah 13:19

The LORD Almighty planned it, to bring low the pride of all glory and to humble all who are renowned on the earth. Isaiah 23:9

But when his heart became arrogant and hardened with pride, he was deposed from his royal throne and stripped of his glory. Daniel 5:20

“Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 1 Corinthians 4:6

Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load. Galatians 6:4

Your heart will become proud and you will forget the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 8:14

Unleash the fury of your wrath, look at every proud man and bring him low. Job 40:11

Though the LORD is on high, he looks upon the lowly, but the proud he knows from afar. Psalm 138:6

The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished. Proverbs 16:5

Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud. Proverbs 16:19

Before his downfall a man’s heart is proud, but humility comes before honor. Proverbs 18:12

The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled). Isaiah 2:12

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 1 Corinthians 13:4
[SUP][/SUP]
[SUP] [/SUP]Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up in honor. James 4:10 (NLT)

 

[JesusLives]

While I am not completely discounting the possibility, how do you know the doctors were telling you the truth? Maybe it was an evil spirit that was afflicting you instead. The pills could have just broke that evil spirit to get you to continue in your happy thoughts again. The thing is, we just cannot really know all the factors involved (unless God shows us by His Word) or until we are faced before Christ when all things are revealed.

Are you saying evil spirits can be drugged into submission? or ejection? Ludicrous....