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Jesus never baptised ANYONE in water. He drenched (baptised) His disciples in the Holy Spirit during His lifetime, He drenched (baptised) them in the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and He inundates (baptises) in the Holy Spirit all who come to Him. 'In one Spirit are we all inundated into one body (Christ's body), -- and are all made to drink of one Spirit.' (1 Cr 12.13). HE IS the baptiser in the Holy Spirit.
Why did He not baptise anyone? Scripture does not say. But the inference from Paul's experience is that for Him to have done so may have established an elite (saying 'WE were baptised by Jesus Himself').
Baptism in water is a totally separate issue and is for believers as soon as they believe. It is the seal that they have been baptised in the Holy Spirit.
The 'one baptism' in Ephesians may be either the baptism in water or the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The emphasis is on the fact that all believers have received the same baptism.
Here is exactly what I am talking about, you are teaching two baptisms, you in what I have quoted of you have yourself expressed the contradiction knowing there is one baptism (Eph 4:5) yet your man made doctrine calls for two, water baptism and HS baptism.
John the baptizer said he could not baptize with the HS, only the Christ could do that (Matt 3:11) yet the Christ tells His disciples (this includes John the baptizer) to baptize making disciples (Matt 28:19), he did not say "go teach all nations I the Christ will baptize them", he told the disciples to baptize, and they can ONLY baptize with water (Matt 3:11)
Now someone here keeps trying to use those who were baptized with the baptism of John in the first 4 verses in Acts 19 as an example of HS baptism, this cannot be so, if after Paul taught them, and they were baptized, if it were a HS baptism, why did Paul have to lay hands on them to give them the power of the HS ????
Acts 19:6 (KJV)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
It is because baptism is not a HS baptism, it is not taking a bath in water (1 Pet 3:21), it is a symbolic representation of the death, burial and resurrection of the Christ, it is by doing this act with a clean conscience (in a repentant mindset (1 Pet. 3:21)) that spiritually puts us in contact with the ever cleansing blood of our savior (1 John 1:7, Rev. 1:5) remitting our sins (Acts 22:16, Rev. 1:5)
because H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism ≠ becoming immersed in Christ
and being sealed by the Holy Spirit ≠ being filled and overcome with the power of the Spirit
Christ does not baptize with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
H[SUB]2[/SUB]O does not wash away sin.
the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of our salvation, not H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
there is one baptism -- immersion in Christ.
H[SUB]2[/SUB]O ≠ Christ.
so if you think of H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion as being the moment of regeneration or the seal itself of inclusion in Christ, you have two baptisms. as it is, this act, done in good conscious as a reply to the true immersion performed by hands that are not human, is a shadow of the reality, not the reality.
teaching that sins are not forgiven until you are washed with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O -- my dear jabberfish, you are the one with "two baptisms", or you think to castrate the power of the one that is not done with human hands. we are sealed when we believe (Ephesians 1) -- not only after we go to a human priest. and who can be sealed who has not been forgiven of their sin?
I baptize you with water for repentance. BUT after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire. Matt. 3:11 (Mark 1:7,8; Luke 3:16)
Yes, before Jesus Christ ascended the disciples did baptize with "John's baptism" but on the day of Pentecost the baptism of holy Spirit, the promise of the Father was sent. I [Jesus] am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high. Luke 24:49 . . . until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. . . . . Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the holy Spirit. Acts 1:1b,4b,5 Can you find me a verse where anyone baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and holy Spirit? On the day of Pentecost, the birth of the church, there is one baptism.
Paul laid hands on them to receive revelation from God as to why they had not demonstrated being baptized with holy Spirit. The laying on of hands does NOT give someone the holy Spirit. Unto what then were ye baptized? . . . Unto John's baptism. Wonder why Paul asked them that question? Then when they were baptized in the name of Jesus and they were filled (immersed, baptized) with the holy Spirit . . . Did the disciples continue to water baptize in Acts? Yeppers, we do read some occurrences and it is because the idea was still new to them . . . just as some tried to continue circumcision -
I baptize you with water, BUT he will baptize you with the holy Spirit. (Mk 1:8) What does the contraction "but" mean? It suggest a contrast in light of the first clause . . . holy Spirit baptism is being "immersed in living water" . . . one baptism.
Is it beyond your ability to recognise that Scripture teaches three baptisms? Firstly the baptism of John, which was pointing forwards to the drenching of the Holy Spirit by the Messiah, secondly the actual drenching in the Holy Spirit, and thirdly the baptism spoken of by Jesus which would be of those who had been drenched by the Holy Spirit.
The drenching in the Holy Spirit is not a baptism as such. The 'one baptism' was simply saying that the true church all practised one rite which united them as one. It is NOT denying a drenching in the Spirit. You are clearly a member of one of these strange sects that the Americans seem to produce.
yes and Jesus Christ drenched His followers in Holy Spirit so that they could preach successfully, heal the sick and cast out evil spirits. They could not have done that without the Holy Spirit. The Gospel writers having prophesied that Christ would drench men with the Holy Spirit naturally left us to recognise that He had.
Yes this was an acted out parable of the drenching in the Spirit that every believer would experience. Thus Jesus drenched people in the Holy Spirit. The Apostles drenched them in water as an indication that they were entering the age of the Spirit.
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The answer is very simple. God was concerned to maintain the unity of the church. At the time of Christ's resurrection there were four major groups that saw themselves as distinctive, and no doubt as 'superior' to the other groups. The first were the Apostles and the Jewish believers. The second were the Samaritans who had their own Law. The third were the disciples of John of whom there were tens of thousands scattered in the dispersion. And the fourth were the Gentiles.
There was no problem with the first group. They were the foundation group. But there was a real problem with the second and third groups. How was God going to ensure that when they received the Holy Spirit it did not make them think that it was BECAUSE they were Samaritans or disciples of John? Answer, ensure that they received the Holy Spirit at the hands of Apostles. Thus in each case that is what happened. In the case of the Gentiles it was important that they received the Holy Spirit directly from God, in order to convince Christian Jews that God had accepted them.
This was so that the disciples of John would recognise that the blessing of the Spirit came on them, not because they were disciples of John, but because they were uniting with Christ's church.
This is only partly true. Baptism DID symbolise the coming of the Holy Spirit, whether it was John's baptism or the church's baptism. In the latter case it indicated that they had been drenched in the Holy Spirit as a consequence of believing in Jesus. But it was in being drenched in the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12.13) that they experienced dying with Him and rising to newness of life (Rom 6.3 ff).
We experience cleansing in the blood of Christ and forgiveness of sins when we BELIEVE not when we are baptised.
Satan is not defeated by water baptism. He can be made to flee from us day by day on the terms of James 4:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
After Jesus was water baptized he went into the wilderness to be tempted of the Devil. The Devil was not defeated, but was resisted by submission to God, answering with the word of God. The Devil didn't stop opposing Jesus nor the apostles, nor anyone today. Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil, empowering us to do the same by works of righteousness. The Devil is still able to affect any believer that lets him in a door.
In the same way Israel was baptized into the cloud and sea as summarized in 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
So are believers baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Church is not the agent of immersing people into the Church. I think maybe some RCC doctrine has put that heresy forth. The body of Christ is added to by the Spirit, not by mortal men. The Church of people can't save one soul.
Genesis introduces pleasing God with faith, while Exodus describes the law covenant which was found faulty, needing to be replaced by the New Covenant. Circumcision and law keeping was not sufficient to provide salvation, those elements being immersion into that old covenant only. Grace by faith in Christ is the means by which the Holy Spirit immerses us into the body of Christ, the Church. The Old Testament types and shadows of the Church were not the express images of the eternal.
The type of Noah's flood experience is limited only to letting the waters of the flood being the destroyer. The water didn't save anyone. Getting into and staying in the Ark provided us a figurative concept of salvation in Christ, water baptism itself a figure, a symbol, not the actual salvation. 1 Peter 3:18-22 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[SUP]19 [/SUP] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Submitting to the gospel of Christ is what saves, receiving all that the Lord provides for us to live by faith in Christ. Likewise circumcision was but a figure to the Jews. The gospel in us is what answers to God, made the righteousness of Christ by grace through faith, not through signs, shadows or types
He said He came to save the world, yet no record of Him water baptizing, only Him telling His disciples to.
Why don't you just say you don't know? or better, not say nothing at all if you "don't know"
I believe He said He "came to seek and save that which was lost." I do not believe He said He came to save the world.
why did Paul say Christ didn't send him to baptize, but to preach the gospel?
there is a difference between the gospel and H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion, it seems?
and God was pleased that by the foolishness of what was preached, those who believe should be saved
Just wondering here..............but isn't it odd that folks never seem to ask Jesus why He did or did not do something? Wouldn't you think He would know better than us?
(yeah, well, right.........giving up the ghost would probably be required to do so, but, still...............)
(yeah, well, right.........giving up the ghost would probably be required to do so, but, still...............)
No where can you find your doctrine in the doctrine of Christ, yes the blood flowed both ways from the cross, and those baptized by John the baptizer were obeying the command to do so, and it was for remission of sins, yet until the cross, there was no blood from the perfect lamb for the remittance to take place. There were three new testament baptisms, two of these ONLY the Christ could do (Matt 3:11) and it was only recorded twice of Christ ever baptizing with the Holy Spirit, once on the day of Pentecost :
Acts 2:2-4 (KJV)
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
and once to the house of Cornelius :
Acts 10:44-45 (KJV)
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The ONLY baptism that the disciples could do is water (Matt 3:11) the one the Lord commissioned us to do (Matt 28:19)
It is not the water that cleanses anyone, it is faith and obedience to the gospel (all of the commands, not any one command including baptism) the faith and obedience are required otherwise all you get is wet, baptism comes after hearing the gospel so you know what to believe (Rom 10:17), then you must believe the gospel (Rom 1:16), then you must have a repentant mindset (Luke 13:3, a clean conscience 1 Peter 3:21), you must confess Jesus is the Christ risen from the dead who died for your sins (Rom 10:9-10) you must then and only then, after those things be baptized in water, the one baptism that saves of Eph 4:5, the one authorized by the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost and commissioned by our Lord and Savior (Matt 28:19) then too remain faithful until death (Rev 2:10)
why did Paul say Christ didn't send him to baptize, but to preach the gospel?
there is a difference between the gospel and H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion, it seems?
and God was pleased that by the foolishness of what was preached, those who believe should be saved
Why did Paul baptize? you pretend he did not baptize?
1Cor 1:14 (KJV)
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
John 3:17 (KJV)
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Not real sure, but I think that has been exactly what I have been repeating over and over again.... Jesus telling us what He said He came to do.
Maybe this one will help you.
John 12:47 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Yes... IF ANY MAN believes that He actually came to do what He said He came for... to destroy the work of the devil.
M
MsLimpet
Guest
Thank you for your responses...it gave me more understanding to my question. And keeping it civilized