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Paul was an apostle and had special authority and commission from God...the Lord's churches seem to have the same authority....Paul told the Corinthian church to deliver the fornicating member over for the destruction of the flesh so the spirit would be saved in the day of Jesus Christ.....sometimes the best thing to do is give somebody over to God and let Him deal with them.......!
P
That's a good question, but it's probably impossible to answer with any sense of certainty in that we cannot positively identify exactly who Paul was speaking of even though he gave us their names.
I Timothy 1:18-20
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
This Hymenaeus is probably the same Hymenaeus whom Paul mentioned in his second letter to Timothy, but that's not guaranteed.
2 Timothy 2 verses 16 thru 18
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Making somebody's faith shipwreck and overthrowing somebody's faith could be the same thing and both could have had to do with Hymanaeus' heretical belief that the resurrection had already past. If it is the same individual, then turning him over to Satan could have simply meant that Paul had him excommunicated or removed from under the protective shadow of the church.
Properly identifying Alexander is even more difficult. Paul did mention an Alexander in his second letter to Timothy as well, but this Alexander doesn't seem to have been a member of the church, so delivering him to Satan, if it's the same person, would seemingly involve something beyond excommunication:
2 Timothy 4:14-15
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.
I'm personally of the belief that this is not the same Alexander whom Paul was referring to. I mean, if he was an unbeliever, then Satan would have had him in his control already, so I fail to see why Paul would have had to deliver or turn him over to Satan who already had him in his power. Some people also consider that this Alexander is the one mentioned in the book of Acts chapter 19 verse 33, but that seems highly unlikely to me.
Basically, my somewhat educated guess is that these two were Christians at some point in time who got mixed up in heresy and were excommunicated or turned over to Satan. That said, it is still just a guess.
I Timothy 1:18-20
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
This Hymenaeus is probably the same Hymenaeus whom Paul mentioned in his second letter to Timothy, but that's not guaranteed.
2 Timothy 2 verses 16 thru 18
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Making somebody's faith shipwreck and overthrowing somebody's faith could be the same thing and both could have had to do with Hymanaeus' heretical belief that the resurrection had already past. If it is the same individual, then turning him over to Satan could have simply meant that Paul had him excommunicated or removed from under the protective shadow of the church.
Properly identifying Alexander is even more difficult. Paul did mention an Alexander in his second letter to Timothy as well, but this Alexander doesn't seem to have been a member of the church, so delivering him to Satan, if it's the same person, would seemingly involve something beyond excommunication:
2 Timothy 4:14-15
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.
I'm personally of the belief that this is not the same Alexander whom Paul was referring to. I mean, if he was an unbeliever, then Satan would have had him in his control already, so I fail to see why Paul would have had to deliver or turn him over to Satan who already had him in his power. Some people also consider that this Alexander is the one mentioned in the book of Acts chapter 19 verse 33, but that seems highly unlikely to me.
Basically, my somewhat educated guess is that these two were Christians at some point in time who got mixed up in heresy and were excommunicated or turned over to Satan. That said, it is still just a guess.
That's a good example of misrepresenting scripture in order to twist the meaning. There is a difference between "would be saved" and "may be saved". 
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
That's a good example of misrepresenting scripture in order to twist the meaning. There is a difference between "would be saved" and "may be saved".
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
K
The context of this scripture as well as the parallel one to it in 1 Corinthians 5:5 is not referring to actually physically handed a person over to the person. What handing one to satan is referring to is taking and shunning a person, and letting them continue to walk in their sinful ways if they refuse to give them up.
By being shunned by the church and continuing in their sinful ways would lead them to hit rock bottom, or get themselves into such a mess that they would finally see the light and repent of their ways. If they continue in those sinful ways and never repent they will not be saved unto eternal life when the day of redemption comes !!!
That's a good example of misrepresenting scripture in order to twist the meaning. There is a difference between "would be saved" and "may be saved".
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
ISIT,
Even if you are correct that Dcon's interpretation is wrong (and I am NOT conceeding that); on what basis do you charge him with misrepresentation? What in the situation gives you the idea, beyond any doubt, that he does not honestly believe what he is saying?
Certainly you must agree that being mistaken and willful misrepresentation are different issues!
Perfect example of why we have no power. We do not possess the wisdom of how to handle it.
Giving them over to Satan is coming before the Lord and telling Jesus that we have done all that we know how to do with specific persons who reject the truth. Give them into Jesus hands that He will deal with them according to His perfect knowledge.
The great dilemma is that we desire to see them saved yet they cause so much harm and damage we believe they must be removed from society. Think ISIS or perhaps a murderer who shoots nine people while they are in church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Giving them over to Satan is coming before the Lord and telling Jesus that we have done all that we know how to do with specific persons who reject the truth. Give them into Jesus hands that He will deal with them according to His perfect knowledge.
The great dilemma is that we desire to see them saved yet they cause so much harm and damage we believe they must be removed from society. Think ISIS or perhaps a murderer who shoots nine people while they are in church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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One need not be an apostle to do this. For example there was a man living
in sin with his father's wife in the Corinthian church. Paul ordered the church
to kick the man out; viz: ostracize him.
In other words; turning one of Christ's believing followers over to Satan isn't
some sort of supernatural hocus pocus: it simply entails culling them from
the herd; viz: denying them the privilege of associating with fellow believers.
They'll get no spiritual blessings by associating with the world's people
because that's the Devil's domain and he owns it.
Technically this is different than excommunication. Ostracizing is discipline;
while excommunication is utter banishment.
Nowadays it's pretty rare for a church to ostracize somebody because many
are terrified of appearing judgmental.
=================================================
One need not be an apostle to do this. For example there was a man living
in sin with his father's wife in the Corinthian church. Paul ordered the church
to kick the man out; viz: ostracize him.
In other words; turning one of Christ's believing followers over to Satan isn't
some sort of supernatural hocus pocus: it simply entails culling them from
the herd; viz: denying them the privilege of associating with fellow believers.
They'll get no spiritual blessings by associating with the world's people
because that's the Devil's domain and he owns it.
Technically this is different than excommunication. Ostracizing is discipline;
while excommunication is utter banishment.
Nowadays it's pretty rare for a church to ostracize somebody because many
are terrified of appearing judgmental.
=================================================
People may believe what they are saying is true, but that does not mean they are speaking the truth according to scripture. What gave me the idea that this verse was being misrepresented is I've seen it reworded and twisted before by certain OSAS believers, as this is not the first time I've seen this done. That is why I posted the verse. Peace
People may believe what they are saying is true, but that does not mean they are speaking the truth according to scripture. What gave me the idea that this verse was being misrepresented is I've seen it reworded and twisted before by certain OSAS believers, as this is not the first time I've seen this done. That is why I posted the verse. Peace
V
Brother, does it ever occur to you that your statement here might possibly be true of you instead? I say this because you are thoroughly convinced of your stand, and if nothing else, you are to be respected for that.
But please believe me, as rigorously as you defend Scripture, others do as well, perhaps more so. There is a great deal of Spirit-led study and exegesis represented in the literally hundreds of threads on this board that defend eternal security, and I believe those defenses are accurate and biblical.
Is it possible, even barely, you could be wrong?
But please believe me, as rigorously as you defend Scripture, others do as well, perhaps more so. There is a great deal of Spirit-led study and exegesis represented in the literally hundreds of threads on this board that defend eternal security, and I believe those defenses are accurate and biblical.
Is it possible, even barely, you could be wrong?