Eternal Security

[PeterJens]

Sin is transgression of the Law. If a person has not stopped sinning it is because they love their sin more than God. But the OSAS proponent makes an allowance for some sin to still take place in their life. Which leads a person to think they could have a license to sin (Which is evil). For some people have committed suicide because they believed in OSAS. For they thought God was not going to punish them for their sin of self murder because they have a mere belief on Jesus. This is wrong.

Wow. OSAS drives people to suicide. People love sin more than God, that is why they continue sinning.

Zero, bottom of the class. You need to study compulsive behaviour, or how people react to abuse or hopelessness.
Sin is the result of not dealing with real needs, hurt, damage, pain.

You claim such authority, but at the first huddle, you know little of life. It is that blunt my friend, and your pride has caused your fall.

People commit suicide because of depression, hopelessness, not doctrine. If you ran a church, I would fear for the people under your care. Why do you think you are qualified to any degree to judge your fellow believers as you do?

 

[JesusIsAll]

.....[video=youtube;g3fYlocYRnc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3fYlocYRnc[/video].....​

 

[SeaBass]

I can assure him he is wrong. But, your right. He can't agree.

Jn 6:40 You are trying to push the false idea that one can quit seeing Christ, quit believing on Christ yet have everlasting life anyway.

Why would I, or anyone else, agree with such a false notion?

 

[Jason0047]

Wow. OSAS drives people to suicide. People love sin more than God, that is why they continue sinning.

Zero, bottom of the class. You need to study compulsive behaviour, or how people react to abuse or hopelessness.
Sin is the result of not dealing with real needs, hurt, damage, pain.

You claim such authority, but at the first huddle, you know little of life. It is that blunt my friend, and your pride has caused your fall.

People commit suicide because of depression, hopelessness, not doctrine. If you ran a church, I would fear for the people under your care. Why do you think you are qualified to any degree to judge your fellow believers as you do?

Not true. We know that Antinomianism (OSAS) in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not set free from it; And that is can even influence someone to commit suicide. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.

Suicide & Antinomianism:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.

A Pastor's Testimony on Antinomianism:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.

Hooked on Sin & Antinomianism:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony

 

[seed_time_harvest]

1st Timothy 4:1
king James version(kjv)

1.)Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[gb9]

Not true. We know that Antinomianism (OSAS) in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not set free from it; And that is can even influence someone to commit suicide. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.

Suicide & Antinomianism:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.

A Pastor's Testimony on Antinomianism:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.

Hooked on Sin & Antinomianism:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony

no Jason, the sin nature in people leads them to sin. people will twist anything into whatever they want. belief in eternal security does not automatically lead to a sin-and-be-saved attitude. a way wrong assumption.

 

[gb9]

by the way Jason, I do not believe in OSAS myself. but I do not fault my brothers and sisters in Christ if they do. we do not all have to believe in the same thing to be a part of Christ.

 

[Gr8grace]

Jn 6:40 You are trying to push the false idea that one can quit seeing Christ, quit believing on Christ yet have everlasting life anyway.

Why would I, or anyone else, agree with such a false notion?

New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

I'm not. I can't use this verse to try to teach that.

"that" introduces the purpose of the Son, the purpose of the will of the Father. It states the way to eternal life for anyone who believes. It is why we see the present tense of believe and subjunctive mood of eternal life.

It is not stating the present condition of the believer.

It is stating the present way to eternal life.

 

[Jason0047]

no Jason, the sin nature in people leads them to sin. people will twist anything into whatever they want. belief in eternal security does not automatically lead to a sin-and-be-saved attitude. a way wrong assumption.

If a person sins, they will die. God does not give people a license to sin. God would be immoral if He were to allow His people to do evil and then reward them with Heaven for doing evil. People sin because they are following the old man and not the new man. One needs to be born again in order to have the new man whereby all things have become new for them (And whereby Christ lives within them and works thru them).

 

[Jason0047]

by the way Jason, I do not believe in OSAS myself. but I do not fault my brothers and sisters in Christ if they do. we do not all have to believe in the same thing to be a part of Christ.

There are people who say they do not believe in OSAS and yet they hold to a "sin and still be saved" doctrine. Do you believe all future sin is forgiven a person? Do you not believe you can die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying, lusting after women, and hating) and then die and still be saved? Do you believe you can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved?

 

[SeaBass]

New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

I'm not. I can't use this verse to try to teach that.

"that" introduces the purpose of the Son, the purpose of the will of the Father. It states the way to eternal life for anyone who believes. It is why we see the present tense of believe and subjunctive mood of eternal life.

It is not stating the present condition of the believer.

It is stating the present way to eternal life.

Jn 6:40 "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

First, it appears you are quoting from a corrupt version that ignored the subjunctive mood (may have) and changed it to an indicative mood (will have). The correct subjunctive mood "may have" shows one may or may not have everlasting life depending upon if one continues to see and believe on Christ or not.

Christ is making a present tense "seeing" and a present tense "believing" CONDITIONAL upon receiving everlasting life. If an ongoing sustained present tense "seeing" and "believing" are not conditions to receiving everlasting life, then you would be claiming one can be saved without EVER seeing or believing on Christ.

So can one be saved WITHOUT having a present tense seeing and believing on Christ? No. Why? Because it is the will of Christ THAT one have a present tense seeing and believing in order to have everlasting life. Nowhere is it in the bible where it says it is the will of Christ THAT one can quit seeing and believing yet still maintain everlasting life.

 

[Jason0047]

Here is a man who was a strong supporter of OSAS, but yet he turned out to be a mass murderer.

GEORGE SODINI

 

[flob]

You think grace covers a person's evil in the beginning of their faith?

He not only covers our sins, 1 Cor 13:7; Jam 5:20; 1 Pet 4:8;
He forgive us and cleanses us from all unrighteousness, 1 John 1:9.
How else do you think you can be saved?

Does not God convict a person of sin so as to have them confess and forsake their sin?

The only way to forsake sin is to live by Christ,
Rom 8:2, 4-16.

How can God (Who is our Father) be holy if He allowed his children to sin (with the thinking they were saved)?

God 'uses sin' to cause us to go to Him. Since He is the only deliverance from sin, the only One Stronger than sin.
The purpose of salvation is not sinlessness. It is to be filled with God.
Thus He does not eradicate sin from our being when we first believe. Rather, He regenerates us, and begins the process
of salvation life-long (however long that is). Just like Israel gradually took over Canaan

It doesn't make any sense. It goes against all common good and morality that we know. Do you think people should be rewarded for evil?

?
Are you talking about Romans 11:32?
Where God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all.
Are you asking if I think people should be saved?
Ask the Savior. That's what He came to do
Mt 18:11,
He can save you.

 

[SeaBass]

He not only covers our sins, 1 Cor 13:7; Jam 5:20; 1 Pet 4:8;
He forgive us and cleanses us from all unrighteousness, 1 John 1:9.
How else do you think you can be saved?

The blood of Christ does NOT UNcondtinally cleanse away all the sins of the Christian...

1 Jn 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

....if the Christian quits walking in the light then NONE of his sins are cleanse away and then the Christian becomes lost in his unwashed sins.

 

[PeterJens]

Not true. We know that Antinomianism (OSAS) in many cases tends to lead people into being enslaved to their sin and not set free from it; And that is can even influence someone to commit suicide. How so? Just check out these testimonies below.

Suicide & Antinomianism:
A tragic story of an OSAS believer.

A Pastor's Testimony on Antinomianism:
A testimony about OSAS by a Pastor's wife.

Hooked on Sin & Antinomianism:
Out Of Darkness | NO Eternal Security | Christian Testimony

You imagine that people who come to the Lord and carry on sinning know the Lord at all. It is like saying a blind man can now see, but he still keeps walking into things and falling down holes. He is still blind.

You do not give sight to people by saying is you did not believe OSAS you will actually be saved.
You have to start with what actually in your life is real, is you, is something you believe in. Do you know who you are?
Now if this is too much for you, so is Jesus.

The problem is you want the problem to be OSAS rather than love and the lack of honesty within.

 

[flob]

The blood of Christ does NOT UNcondtinally cleanse away all the sins of the Christian.

1 Jn 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
To the contrary:
Light (7) is what makes me confess (9). And the blood is sufficient to cleanse me from all my sins.

if the Christian quits walking in the light then NONE of his sins are cleanse away and then the Christian becomes lost in his unwashed sins.

I guess you can use that terminology. However that does not mean eternal damnation.
Since the Lord will lose none of those the Father has given Him,
Mt 5:26

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Just reading through the thread and I would like to insert my humble understanding of 2 Thess. 2:3-8 and Hebrews 6:6:

My thing is: except there come a falling away first - which from the root word simply means "departure" and here it does not specifically say "a falling away from faith first" - couldn't this be a "departure" of the saints so that the "man of perdition" can be revealed? For in verse 6 it says "And you know what is now restraining him (the son of perdition) and verse 7 . . but only until the one (holy Spirit) who now restrains it is removed (the holy Spirit is restraining the revealing of the son of perdition) And then the lawless one will be revealed . . . which would also correspond with the gathering together in the clouds to meet the Lord. The holy Spirit is restraining the revealing of the son of perdition, the lawless one, and the removal of the holy Spirit, i.e. believers indwelt with the holy Spirit - will reveal the son of perdition, the lawless one?

As for Hebrews 6 . . . - if we use this verse as one losing salvation - then it is saying that if a saved person sins and loses his salvation, he cannot be forgiven and be saved again because it's "impossible".

. . . for what it's worth . . .

 

[JesusIsAll]

Just reading through the thread and I would like to insert my humble understanding of 2 Thess. 2:3-8 and Hebrews 6:6:

My thing is: except there come a falling away first - which from the root word simply means "departure" and here it does not specifically say "a falling away from faith first" - couldn't this be a "departure" of the saints so that the "man of perdition" can be revealed? For in verse 6 it says "And you know what is now restraining him (the son of perdition) and verse 7 . . but only until the one (holy Spirit) who now restrains it is removed (the holy Spirit is restraining the revealing of the son of perdition) And then the lawless one will be revealed . . . which would also correspond with the gathering together in the clouds to meet the Lord. The holy Spirit is restraining the revealing of the son of perdition, the lawless one, and the removal of the holy Spirit, i.e. believers indwelt with the holy Spirit - will reveal the son of perdition, the lawless one?

As for Hebrews 6 . . . - if we use this verse as one losing salvation - then it is saying that if a saved person sins and loses his salvation, he cannot be forgiven and be saved again because it's "impossible".

. . . for what it's worth . . .

"Departing" in some translations, even older than the KJV, is fascinating, a very strong case what you are describing being the blessed hope, re: Tyndale's translation, Coverdale (A.D. 1535), Cranmer (1539), and the Geneva Bible (1537).

In any case, the primary problem with bad exegesis on eternal security is the fact congregations have virgins without oil in their lamps, most all preaching in scripture to a congregation that is a mixture of saved and unsaved, with those who "profess, but don't possess." There's much teaching on this, those the Lord does not know, making claims who are not of His Spirit, and failure to see this fundamental truth results in a failed understanding of what an apostate is, and this is not one born again of the Spirit, who gets unborn. The exact situation is addressed, in clear terms,

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[Gr8grace]

Just reading through the thread and I would like to insert my humble understanding of 2 Thess. 2:3-8 and Hebrews 6:6:

My thing is: except there come a falling away first - which from the root word simply means "departure" and here it does not specifically say "a falling away from faith first" - couldn't this be a "departure" of the saints so that the "man of perdition" can be revealed? For in verse 6 it says "And you know what is now restraining him (the son of perdition) and verse 7 . . but only until the one (holy Spirit) who now restrains it is removed (the holy Spirit is restraining the revealing of the son of perdition) And then the lawless one will be revealed . . . which would also correspond with the gathering together in the clouds to meet the Lord. The holy Spirit is restraining the revealing of the son of perdition, the lawless one, and the removal of the holy Spirit, i.e. believers indwelt with the holy Spirit - will reveal the son of perdition, the lawless one?

As for Hebrews 6 . . . - if we use this verse as one losing salvation - then it is saying that if a saved person sins and loses his salvation, he cannot be forgiven and be saved again because it's "impossible".

. . . for what it's worth . . .

A falling away is not what the original says. It is THE falling away(apostasy/departure)

New American Standard Bible
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Its not some great apostasy, or a world that has very few believers. It is THE apostasy. There has never been anything like it. And being caught up with Him in the air would cover two areas of this word "Apostasy."

At the moment of the rapture(The departure), there will not be a single believer left on the planet(THE apostasy)

 

[PeterJens]

Jason, you are right. I found it. In the corner of the room, the chalice. If everyone drinks from this chalice they will enter the kingdom, it is just that simple. Everything else has contaminated them, this will wash them clean. Like a kills 99% of all false doctrines, because it is false doctrine that dooms us to hell, sorry, the lake of fire.

Joking apart, Mohammed believed this. Islam is exactly the right faith, and sin comes because everyone else has the wrong version. It did not work for him, and it certainly will not work for you. Unless you are changed by walking in obedient love with Jesus because of faith, not a chance. Trouble is I am not sure you have managed the obedient love part.

You could argue this is salvation by works, but I call it transformation through obedience. It perfects you, not saves you, you are saved through faith in Jesus, and the love empowers you to walk on. But the catch is, without the love you would never start, and with the love, you do not want to stop.