What's this verse mean?

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Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
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#1
Matt.23 and call no man on earth father:Greek: pater: honorific title. Be not called Master or Rabbi: teacher.
Whosoever exalts himself shall be humbled.
Does this mean when one puts an honorific title in front of their name, they are exalting themselves above others.
'He that is greatest among you shall be your servant' is sandwiched in between these verses. I are a dummy but it seems pretty clear to this country boy.

What say You?
 

Brandon88

Junior Member
Jun 25, 2015
10
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#2
It's just saying that we should humble ourselves. Pride is evil and we shouldn't try to be better than other people.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#3
I once tried to call one of our pastors pastor Frank and he said, please don't call me pastor Frank, it's just Frank. No one at our church calls anyone by an honorific title, we just call them by their name. I guess all churches arnt as wicked as you think yet, Yet?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#4
I once tried to call one of our pastors pastor Frank and he said, please don't call me pastor Frank, it's just Frank. No one at our church calls anyone by an honorific title, we just call them by their name. I guess all churches arnt as wicked as you think yet, Yet?
Amen to that....brother, sister and or personal name seems to fit the bill just fine........or like some say...you can call me anything you want to call me...just don't call me ;) HAHHA
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
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Australia
#5
Amen to that....brother, sister and or personal name seems to fit the bill just fine........or like some say...you can call me anything you want to call me...just don't call me ;) HAHHA
lol just don't call me baby...

Hopefull this will be a breath of fresh air for our brother Yet, knowing not everyone desires an honorific name. Please let us know if it is mate, i'd like to know :)
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
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#6
Could honorific titles also include religious titles such as Bishop, Evangelist, Pope, Cardinal, Father, Pastor, and Reverend?

And if the verses are right, these titles lead to arrogance. Read those scriptures submitted again.

And, if again, Jesus was right about it, why do men wear titles in front of their names in the 'church' (ekklesia)?

Why then the open disobedience, why do they defy God Himself on this issue? Usurping His authority.

Is the lust for power and control and preeminence and domination that strong that any resistance to it is futile?

There are to be no divisions among us yet the title automatically draws a line in the sand between one brother and one more special brother.

The one feels like a worm, the other feels like a king.

Scripture is clear on this. No one man or woman is to 'lord it over His heritage'.

Matt.20 'the Gentiles have those that rule above and over them but it shall not be so among you'. Jesus words, but watch me get my caboose kicked now for simply pointing to Christs clear cut command.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,661
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#7
Odd way to see things, but ok. Still, I'm gonna go with God if no one objects:

1 Corinthians 12:28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


Ephesians 4:11) And he gave some,
apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 .) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Yeah, I'm going with God on this one. If He thought it not froward to call these people as such, then I'm good.
 
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B

bondservant

Guest
#8
Yet you are so right on with the titles, and yes it does make one more arrogant, it's in our nature. I believe it goes along with the Lord's teaching on so shall be the greatest in heaven. When I went to the church I still attend for the first time a guy was out raking leaves in the front of the place, runny nose and a bit of dress down look he welcomed us in and smiled and said my name is ray and I told him mine and shook hands. My wife introduced herself and so on. Any ways I told my wife I was going to get that man a cup coffee it was a bit chilly that morning. When I got back he was gone. I went into to join worship and there was ray behind the pulpit my pastor wow what a testimony.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,661
6,853
113
#9
Yet you are so right on with the titles, and yes it does make one more arrogant, it's in our nature. I believe it goes along with the Lord's teaching on so shall be the greatest in heaven. When I went to the church I still attend for the first time a guy was out raking leaves in the front of the place, runny nose and a bit of dress down look he welcomed us in and smiled and said my name is ray and I told him mine and shook hands. My wife introduced herself and so on. Any ways I told my wife I was going to get that man a cup coffee it was a bit chilly that morning. When I got back he was gone. I went into to join worship and there was ray behind the pulpit my pastor wow what a testimony.
It might be your nature, or the nature of some........but to broad brush condemn all those men and women who have dedicated their entire lives to serving God, and often times with very little or no financial gain (as some demonize them for), is about as unbiblical as any broad brush condemnation gets.

I will never understand the level of disdain some professed Christians have towards those who dedicate their entire lives to serving God.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#10
My pastor prefers to be called by his first name, Andy. Sometimes I forget and call him Pastor Andy. He puts up with me. ;)
 
B

bondservant

Guest
#11
P-Rehbin no disrespect but who gives the increase or let us not esteem one higher than another seems quite clear. Jesus referred himself as a servant. Let no man be called reverend...if I err please explain.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#12
Years sago I was preaching a series of revivals as a traveling evangelist. At the end of one meeting a fellow come up to me and said 'Evangelist Devon, we'd like to take you out for dinner.' The very moment he addressed me as Evangelist Devon, my hat size increased a noticeable change.
It didn't take long for God to convict me of my ego. Oh I relished in it for about a day, bathed in the sunlight of specialness, then I felt a deep guilt for my arrogance.....thank you Jesus!

You might jump to say 'well that was you Devon. Your sin. Others don't get prideful wearing a title of distinction'!

Only one word comes to mind with your thought above......bull!

Thats the very reason Jesus commanded us not to adorn 'our most holy exalted name' with an upper crust religious title!

That separates you from the unwashed masses. Oh you'll say 'we are all special in Gods eyes' but I say a religious, honorific title makes that individual more special than the rest.

If you don't believe that, walk into any church on the planet and you'll most likely be greeted with 'Hello. Welcome to our 'church'( the building again is not the church), come meet our Pastor'!

The titled most special person is the center of most 'churches'. If he should quit and move on, the 'church' would go into free fall.
'Oh my God, what do we do now? Ahhhhhhh!'
See what I mean. It's so ingrained in our thinking that you can't have 'church' without a titled, paid professional.

Jesus said 'where 2 or 3 are gathered in My name, there I will be in there midst, only if they have hired a hireling with a special title to conduct services ......NOT!
Thats not in your bible. Simplicity is the beauty and aroma of the Saints gathered together to share with one another minus a basilica or cleric.
Ill take a break!
 
Nov 14, 2012
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#13
Could honorific titles also include religious titles such as Bishop, Evangelist, Pope, Cardinal, Father, Pastor, and Reverend?

And if the verses are right, these titles lead to arrogance. Read those scriptures submitted again.

And, if again, Jesus was right about it, why do men wear titles in front of their names in the 'church' (ekklesia)?

Why then the open disobedience, why do they defy God Himself on this issue? Usurping His authority.

Is the lust for power and control and preeminence and domination that strong that any resistance to it is futile?

There are to be no divisions among us yet the title automatically draws a line in the sand between one brother and one more special brother.

The one feels like a worm, the other feels like a king.

Scripture is clear on this. No one man or woman is to 'lord it over His heritage'.

Matt.20 'the Gentiles have those that rule above and over them but it shall not be so among you'. Jesus words, but watch me get my caboose kicked now for simply pointing to Christs clear cut command.
Why are priests called father? We follow Paul's example from scripture, 1 Cor 4:15
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#14
Why are priests called father? We follow Paul's example from scripture, 1 Cor 4:15
Good question. Paul was saying he was the father of their faith, instigator of their faith. He first showed them the gospel of Christ. Nothing wrong with that distinction........but! That is a world of difference to putting that as a title in front of your name. Father Paul cannot be found in scripture. Like a carpenter working on your house. Carpenter Bob is highly unlikely to be his handle. Bob the carpenter would be the preferred reference.
Like Paul the Apostle demonstrates his ministry, yet the reference, the Apostle Paul, is never used or endorsed.

Sounds like you may be a catholic. Just a shot in the dark. In the NT all believers are called the priesthood of the believers.
There is no special priest caste that is set above other believers. Saterdotalism does not exist in the NT Ekklesia.
The clerical/laity system has no part or place in the body of Christ. It exists today because of ignorance and the arrogance and avarice of self appointed men like Diotrephes, 3John.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,661
6,853
113
#15
P-Rehbin no disrespect but who gives the increase or let us not esteem one higher than another seems quite clear. Jesus referred himself as a servant. Let no man be called reverend...if I err please explain.
Which is exactly my point. Preachers, Teachers, Pastors, Evangelists are ALL servants of the Body of Christ. Just as Jesus came to serve and not be served. And I know so very many Godly men and women who have dedicated their lives to serving Him who are not in the least "puffed up" with self importance because they may have the title Pastor, Teacher, Preacher, or Evangelist. God HIMSELF established these titles/positions in the Church, and I see no reason why people should have such disdain for those who serve in those positions.

Hebrews 13:7) Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

and verse 17) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Bill Brinkworth said:

(and I agree)

All throughout the Bible there are examples of how God dealt with those that rose up and spoke against God’s man such as:

  • When Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses, Miriam was plagued with leprosy (Num. 12:9-10).
  • When the people of Israel spoke against God and Moses (Num. 21:5-6), God sent fiery serpents to chastise them for their sin.
  • When Korah and over 250 others spoke against Moses and Aaron (Num. 16:2-3), God allowed the earth to swallow Korah and the others up.
  • When children mocked God’s man, Elisha (II Kings 2:22-23), God allowed two she bears to destroy 42 of the mockers.
  • History tells us that Pontius Pilate, who ordered Jesus’ death, died by suicide.
  • Judas turned against Jesus, and became so miserable about what he had done against Jesus that he killed himself (Mat. 27:5).
  • The thief that perished on the cross with Christ, spoke against Jesus, and did not get saved and go to heaven.
David would not go against King Saul, even though the King did wrong several times against him. David’s heart was, “The LORD forbid that I should stretch forth mine hand against the LORD'S anointed: …” I Samuel 26:11. David knew it was wrong to oppose God’s man. However, today there are many that have not the fear or respect to restrain themselves from talking against or doing ill against the leader God has placed over the local church.

The pastor of any church certainly is not perfect. No one will agree with everything anyone does, let alone the many decisions the local shepherd has to make. He probably would not agree with all we do, either. However, he is the leader of the local church that God has for this time and should be obeyed, respected, and encouraged. Unless when scriptural error is involved, God takes him home, or God relocates him, he is to stay the church leader.


[h=3]Against God's Anointed - Sunday school lessons &...[/h]
These people have been called by God, purposed by God to serve His Church. This is the anointing of God on these people, and to defame those anointed by God is surely a most dangerous and foolish thing to do.

Now, people like to pick out a few bad apples, and there surely are some of those and use them and their sinful deeds to BROAD BRUSH condemn ALL who God has called to the Ministry.

One final warning...........then you guys can enjoy yourselves............anyone who speaks ill of one anointed by God will be judged for it on the day of Atonement. People better think before they start BROAD BRUSH condemning God's servants.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#16
P-Rehbin no disrespect but who gives the increase or let us not esteem one higher than another seems quite clear. Jesus referred himself as a servant. Let no man be called reverend...if I err please explain.
I agree...no one on this planet deserves that title.....!
 
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
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#17
It might be your nature, or the nature of some........but to broad brush condemn all those men and women who have dedicated their entire lives to serving God, and often times with very little or no financial gain (as some demonize them for), is about as unbiblical as any broad brush condemnation gets.

I will never understand the level of disdain some professed Christians have towards those who dedicate their entire lives to serving God.
I don't understand it either. Some just really don't like the idea of church
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#18
Matt.23 and call no man on earth father:Greek: pater: honorific title. Be not called Master or Rabbi: teacher.
Whosoever exalts himself shall be humbled.
Does this mean when one puts an honorific title in front of their name, they are exalting themselves above others.
'He that is greatest among you shall be your servant' is sandwiched in between these verses. I are a dummy but it seems pretty clear to this country boy.

What say You?

From what I have been shown it has nothing to do with honorific titles.

What it is stating is that nobody man or woman is to be called by a Spiritual title that is to be given to God and God alone.
For it says we have only one Spiritual Father and one Spiritual Teacher and that is God in heaven. We are just vessels that carry that message from God that is given through us by the Holy Spirit, and to place any of those Spiritual titles on us means we are putting ourselves in place of God.

Those who do the most serving of others is the one's who will be considered great in the kingdom of heaven and given rewards based on that, and those who claim to be something and better then others will be considered least in the kingdom of heaven.

We should never place ourselves as better than another, more knowledgeable, and especially not more spiritual then others.....
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#19
Good question. Paul was saying he was the father of their faith, instigator of their faith. He first showed them the gospel of Christ. Nothing wrong with that distinction........but! That is a world of difference to putting that as a title in front of your name. Father Paul cannot be found in scripture. Like a carpenter working on your house. Carpenter Bob is highly unlikely to be his handle. Bob the carpenter would be the preferred reference.
Like Paul the Apostle demonstrates his ministry, yet the reference, the Apostle Paul, is never used or endorsed.

Sounds like you may be a catholic. Just a shot in the dark. In the NT all believers are called the priesthood of the believers.
There is no special priest caste that is set above other believers. Saterdotalism does not exist in the NT Ekklesia.
The clerical/laity system has no part or place in the body of Christ. It exists today because of ignorance and the arrogance and avarice of self appointed men like Diotrephes, 3John.


Where does Paul call himself the father of their faith ???

1 Corinthians 4:15 does not say that, as what it says is we may have many instructors in the faith but we do not have many fathers. For we only have one and that is the Lord our God !!!
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,102
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#20
Matt.23 and call no man on earth father:Greek: pater: honorific title. Be not called Master or Rabbi: teacher.
Whosoever exalts himself shall be humbled.
Does this mean when one puts an honorific title in front of their name, they are exalting themselves above others.
'He that is greatest among you shall be your servant' is sandwiched in between these verses. I are a dummy but it seems pretty clear to this country boy.

What say You?
AWM Written Correspondence Dept. to you

Thank you for writing.

Below we have included Andrew’s commentary on this scripture.

Matthew 5:48 (KJV)
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 5:48
Note on Matthew 5:48
As stated in my note at Matthew 5:47, Christianity is totally different than all other religions. All religions preach “do better,” but Christianity preaches “be perfect.” This can’t be obtained through our human effort. Therefore, we have a Savior, Jesus Christ, who offers us His perfection by faith in what He did for us (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Life For Today Study Bible Notes
Note 24 at Matthew 5:48: Our goal and standard of conduct should always be perfection, even as God is perfect (Genesis 17:1, Leviticus 19:2, and 1 Peter 1:15-16). It’s always a mistake to use anyone or anything else as our standard (2 Corinthians 10:12). However, we cannot obtain sinless perfection through our efforts. Even the Apostle Paul had not obtained perfection (Philippians 3:12) but was still pressing toward the mark. We must trust the righteousness of God applied to us by faith and not our own righteousness (Philippians 3:9).
Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.

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