The unholy man of the last day's (2 Tim 3:1-9)

[MikkoAinasoja]

1. But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come. 2. For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3. without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good, 4. traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; 5. holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. 6. For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts, 7. ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8. And even as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also withstand the truth. Men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith. 9. But they shall proceed no further. For their folly shall be evident unto all men, as theirs also came to be. (2 Tim 3:1-9)

And today when we see all kind of childish act also in this forum, then what is it, if it not unholy behavior, without self-control?

Can't you see that this picture of man of the last day's fits in you, that also your behavior is unholy, and also you are always against the truth, and sound doctrine, and against everything noble, because all holy and pure has become abomination for you, even though the Bible leads us to the holy and pure life, but you do not seems understand that, because the Spirit is not leading you, but you follow your own desires, according to you flesh, which have not submit under the will of God.

The fear of God you have reject, and your behavior is out of control.

Hypocrisy it seems to be the thing, what you love.

Make the turn when you still have the time.

 

[Blain]

1. But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come. 2. For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3. without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good, 4. traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; 5. holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. 6. For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts, 7. ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8. And even as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also withstand the truth. Men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith. 9. But they shall proceed no further. For their folly shall be evident unto all men, as theirs also came to be. (2 Tim 3:1-9)

And today when we see all kind of childish act also in this forum, then what is it, if it not unholy behavior, without self-control?

Can't you see that this picture of man of the last day's fits in you, that also your behavior is unholy, and also you are always against the truth, and sound doctrine, and against everything noble, because all holy and pure has become abomination for you, even though the Bible leads us to the holy and pure life, but you do not seems understand that, because the Spirit is not leading you, but you follow your own desires, according to you flesh, which have not submit under the will of God.

The fear of God you have reject, and your behavior is out of control.

Hypocrisy it seems to be the thing, what you love.

Make the turn when you still have the time.

You might want to quit talking to yourself like that:b

 

[mwc68]

Who are you talking to? Hope its the mirror

 

[Blain]

Who are you talking to? Hope its the mirror

He is obviously intending this for everyone but him but he is only describing himself. It's sort of like a person who deep down is gay and judges and torments others for being gay because he doesn't want to face the reality of who he is, also mikko just wants attention.

 

[Tintin]

1. But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come. 2. For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3. without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good, 4. traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; 5. holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. 6. For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts, 7. ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8. And even as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also withstand the truth. Men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith. 9. But they shall proceed no further. For their folly shall be evident unto all men, as theirs also came to be. (2 Tim 3:1-9)

And today when we see all kind of childish act also in this forum, then what is it, if it not unholy behavior, without self-control?

Can't you see that this picture of man of the last day's fits in you, that also your behavior is unholy, and also you are always against the truth, and sound doctrine, and against everything noble, because all holy and pure has become abomination for you, even though the Bible leads us to the holy and pure life, but you do not seems understand that, because the Spirit is not leading you, but you follow your own desires, according to you flesh, which have not submit under the will of God.

The fear of God you have reject, and your behavior is out of control.

Hypocrisy it seems to be the thing, what you love.

Make the turn when you still have the time.

Condemnation from you? That's nothing new. Learn God's unconditional love for you, then we can talk.

 

[Budman]

Mikko, do you believe gross error should be tolerated, or corrected? Do you believe defense of the gospel is disruptive, or constructive?

 

[MikkoAinasoja]

Condemnation from you? That's nothing new. Learn God's unconditional love for you, then we can talk.

And by love what you mean, is that I should tolerate all kind of childish, and unholy behavior, what I see.

And what kind of love is that, if I give up, the true values of God, or hide in my heart what I know, and just sit silent, knowing that the mankind is lost?

I see no true love in that's kind of way, it won't help me, and it won't you.

 

[pwrnJC]

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt. lol Easy there, partner..sounds like you are setting yourself up for a continual fall. If the Holy SPIRIT is moving upon you to make a move..then, by all means..go for it. This sounds like "I don't need to tolerate anything from anyone that I consider childish and unholy." Accept the fact that there are many spiritual levels..and you are only on one level at a time. That level may just be above sea level, or you may be sinking..either way...always reach out for a higher level or rung on the ladder but do not step on someone's hand as you climb. Seems that you are always looking at those beneath you when you should be helping those around you and looking UP. This banter is not needed nor does it make anyone want to be like YOU, Yes, even Mary pondered and hid things in her heart..you do not always have to point a finger or make a judgement call just to show which level you think you are presently on. Nobody will give you a purple jelly bean for your effort.

 

[Budman]

Nobody will give you a purple jelly bean for your effort.

Okay, that really made me laugh. And I needed that!

 

[Jason0047]

Who is 2 Timothy 3:1-9 talking to if not the believer? The passage says they have a form of Godliness, but they deny the power thereof. Then there is a list of sins that are associated with them. So one cannot remain unholy and enter the Kingdom of God. For is anyone here explaining this passage or they just mocking Mikko's post on the Word of God that convicts the heart?

 

[MikkoAinasoja]

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt. lol Easy there, partner..sounds like you are setting yourself up for a continual fall. If the Holy SPIRIT is moving upon you to make a move..then, by all means..go for it. This sounds like "I don't need to tolerate anything from anyone that I consider childish and unholy." Accept the fact that there are many spiritual levels..and you are only on one level at a time. That level may just be above sea level, or you may be sinking..either way...always reach out for a higher level or rung on the ladder but do not step on someone's hand as you climb. Seems that you are always looking at those beneath you when you should be helping those around you and looking UP. This banter is not needed nor does it make anyone want to be like YOU, Yes, even Mary pondered and hid things in her heart..you do not always have to point a finger or make a judgement call just to show which level you think you are presently on. Nobody will give you a purple jelly bean for your effort.

So you message is also that no one should not reproof here?

Pointless discussions is what you people's seems to love.

But believe me that it is better that someone do reproof here, even though it do not feel so good.

 

[PeterJens]

1. But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come.

I agree that some here probably fit into the category you are describing, but probably not.
Those who are honestly striving for purity of heart and holiness, are certainly not what Paul is talking about.
He is talking about people who preach or have a role, but actually want things that just feed the flesh, and are slaves to sin.
In every group of people there are always a few like this, but your description wants to put everyone here.

None of the description would describe me, and I doubt many others. But that is how you seem to intend it.

Projection without listening takes away the impact or meaning. I would like to believe you know what you are saying, but I do not think you do.

 

[Jason0047]

I agree that some here probably fit into the category you are describing, but probably not.
Those who are honestly striving for purity of heart and holiness, are certainly not what Paul is talking about.
He is talking about people who preach or have a role, but actually want things that just feed the flesh, and are slaves to sin.
In every group of people there are always a few like this, but your description wants to put everyone here.

None of the description would describe me, and I doubt many others. But that is how you seem to intend it.

Projection without listening takes away the impact or meaning. I would like to believe you know what you are saying, but I do not think you do.

It's actually worse than you think. For narrow is the way that leads unto life.

For regardless if one lives a holy life or not, if the OSAS teacher teaches that a believer can abide in some kind of unrepentant sin (Like say lying, lusting, hating, etc.) then they are not going to make it because they are giving the impression that one can sin and still be saved. This would place blood on the hands of the person teaching such a dark doctrine because they are leading others astray into sin (Whether they want that to happen or not). For when one says...."Once Saved Always Saved", then the person hearing such a teacher can easily misunderstand that teacher to take that as a license for sin. For even life teaches us that are consequences to not doing certain things that we know are right and good. Now, if the OSAS teacher stresses every time that one must live holy in order for "Once Saved Always Saved" to be true (Whereby one is proving they are born again): Then you run into another problem. For if one is not born again if they are not living holy makes that person to question their salvation every time they do fall into a sin whereby they are striving to confess and forsake sin. So it places doubt in God's promises such as 1 John 1:9 and Luke 18:9-14. The only solution is that believers are to actually live holy lives and they are to confess and forsake sin (Whereby they glorify Jesus Christ working in their life who was manifested to destroy the works of the devil).

And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1 Peter 4:18).

 

[PeterJens]

This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
1 Cor 4:1-5

The problem with condemning people because they do not teach in the way you do, is you have no actual sin you are talking about. If ones teaching is about rule keeping then you have failed. Paul is emphasising having a clear conscience, walking in the light, and making sure your motives are good.

What you end up if you are not careful is just perfectionism without seeing the major issues because all your effort is taken up nit picking. I have seen conformity and nit picking while sinners and needs are ignored, because self righteousness becomes the focus not learning how to walk in purity and righteousness.

The other point is not that many "christians" even understand this discussion, which makes it a bit of farce.

 

[Tintin]

And by love what you mean, is that I should tolerate all kind of childish, and unholy behavior, what I see.

And what kind of love is that, if I give up, the true values of God, or hide in my heart what I know, and just sit silent, knowing that the mankind is lost?

I see no true love in that's kind of way, it won't help me, and it won't you.

No, not at all. I would love for you to follow Jesus way. I distinctly remember Jesus say something about removing the plank from your own eye, before you remove the speck from your neighbour's eye. But hey, what do I know?

 

[MikkoAinasoja]

No, not at all. I would love for you to follow Jesus way. I distinctly remember Jesus say something about removing the plank from your own eye, before you remove the speck from your neighbour's eye. But hey, what do I know?

Don't Yeshua give reproof, and don't the apostles give also reproofing?

The situation is this, that you people's can't take anymore sound doctrine, like it is predicted to be happen, and this is the thing what I wan't you all to see.

You love the values of this world, even though the world do not know God.

 

[breno785au]

Don't Yeshua give reproof, and don't the apostles give also reproofing?

The situation is this, that you people's can't take anymore sound doctrine, like it is predicted to be happen, and this is the thing what I wan't you all to see.

You love the values of this world, even though the world do not know God.

But mate, you don't know one speck about the guy. And don't think, I know enough about him to make a judgement on his character because you don't.

 

[Tintin]

Don't Yeshua give reproof, and don't the apostles give also reproofing?

The situation is this, that you people's can't take anymore sound doctrine, like it is predicted to be happen, and this is the thing what I wan't you all to see.

You love the values of this world, even though the world do not know God.

I'm for sound doctrine, but don't give me that crap! All you do is condemn the majority, like you're on some holy mission or something. You sir, are deluded.