Young Earth Creation. Does it matter what you believe?

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Pumicestone

Banned
#761
Mar 21, 2015
643
4
0
#761
valiant said:
.... Spurgeon's College is far from being a 'fundie creationist college'.
it is highly academic and does not take up a view on the' creationist (in the American sense)/intelligently guided evolution' positions......
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Spurgeon's College
VISION STATEMENT


  • To be the College of Choice among Baptists and other evangelical Christians seeking to train for Christian ministries
  • As an evangelical seminary, in membership with the Baptist Union of Great Britain,Spurgeon's College has as its basis of faith that of the Evangelical Alliance."
  • Although Spurgeon wanted his students to be alert, relevant, and lively in the context of late nineteenth-century life, he wanted them to be committed to Calvinistic orthodoxy .....




Can anybody see this lot providing an impartial overview of Evolution ? Really ?


 
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Preach2u

Junior Member
#762
Jun 10, 2015
13
0
1
#762
valiant said:
well I for one don't accept his premisses. He is just making assumptions on the basis of his own presuppositions and reading in what he has been brought up to believe. There are clear indications in Genesis 1 that the yom are not natural days and nights. The very description evening and morning is very strange, especially as in Gen 1 Yom 1 HAS NO EVENING. It commences with total darkness,

Besides evening and morning is NOT a 24 hour day. it leaves out night time and afternoon. It is therefore more natural to see it as indicating beginning (morning) and ending (evening), especially as in Genesis 1 'yom' is defined as indicating a period of light.

Furthermore 24 hour days could not naturally be seen as commencing before the fourth yom. So the natural interpretation is to see the yoms as 'days of God'.

Thus in my view the idea of a 6 24 hour day creation IS NOT the natural interpretation of the passage, especially as we note that the seventh yom has no evening and morning, and is not said to end. And this is especially so as it is clear that the account has been built up on a very careful pattern to show preparation and completion

this should at least indicate to us that if we take the literal Hebrew it is open to question precisely what the account is saying. There is no one view that dots all the i's and crosses all the t's. we should therefore beware of slanging those who disagree with us.
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I guess words something different to us and God? The reason you don't know how long a day is in the bible is because you a re an old earther, I suspect. The first days were normal days for definite sure, because of the Sabbath commandment in the 10 commandments. FOR IN SIX DAYS GOD CREATED THE HAVE S AND THE EARTH. This was written with God's own finger, twice actually. That should settle the argument but it won't for Ppl who want to retain the old earth paradigm.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#763
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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#763
Preach2u said:
I guess words something different to us and God? The reason you don't know how long a day is in the bible is because you a re an old earther, I suspect. The first days were normal days for definite sure, because of the Sabbath commandment in the 10 commandments. FOR IN SIX DAYS GOD CREATED THE HAVE S AND THE EARTH. This was written with God's own finger, twice actually. That should settle the argument but it won't for Ppl who want to retain the old earth paradigm.
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In fact that is citing Genesis 1. It says nothing about the meaning of yom. It is simply using Genesis 1 as an example of a six one pattern. It is saying 'God works on this basis, so should you'.

In fact 'day' in Gen 1 means 'a period of light'. it does not mean a 24 hour day. nor does it in Exodus 20.

That is modern man's invention
 
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tanach

Guest
#764
#764
I would rather see evidence from a neutral website thanks. Some years ago a big fuss was made about supposed huiman footprints being found along side Dinosaur tracks and they turned out to be fake. Just because a site claims tio be christian
doesnt necessarily mean it is.
 
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GaryA

Guest
#765
#765
valiant said:
In fact that is citing Genesis 1. It says nothing about the meaning of yom. It is simply using Genesis 1 as an example of a six one pattern. It is saying 'God works on this basis, so should you'.

In fact 'day' in Gen 1 means 'a period of light'. it does not mean a 24 hour day. nor does it in Exodus 20.

That is modern man's invention
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Based on Strong's definition, I suggest that it would be closer to the truth to say that the word 'day' means "a period of heat" - as in, "the heat of the day"; the word is based on the heat of the day, and means "one period of heat" ( the daytime ). Where "the length of a day" is concerned, it is a cyclic period ( the 'natural' day, including 'light' and 'dark' ) containing "one period of heat"...


In other words, 'day' [ effectively ] means "one rotation of the earth"... ;)


Whether it was 24 hours, 25 hours, or [ whatever ] - it was one rotation of the earth.

As you read in Genesis what occurred on each day, just remember to consider the following with regard to the 'length' of the 'day':

~ Would it survive until the next day if the "heat of the day" were that long?

~ Would it survive until the next day if the "cool of the night" were that long?

~ Would it survive until the next day if something [ that it needed to survive ] did not come along until the next day?

:)
 
J

JackH

Banned
#767
Jun 5, 2014
1,750
6
0
#767
kedge said:
You actually witnessed that event?
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You have to understand where GaryA is coming from.

He has said that we never went to the moon and it was all a hoax.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#768
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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#768
GaryA said:
Based on Strong's definition, I suggest that it would be closer to the truth to say that the word 'day' means "a period of heat" - as in, "the heat of the day"; the word is based on the heat of the day, and means "one period of heat" ( the daytime ). Where "the length of a day" is concerned, it is a cyclic period ( the 'natural' day, including 'light' and 'dark' ) containing "one period of heat"...


In other words, 'day' [ effectively ] means "one rotation of the earth"... ;)


Whether it was 24 hours, 25 hours, or [ whatever ] - it was one rotation of the earth.

As you read in Genesis what occurred on each day, just remember to consider the following with regard to the 'length' of the 'day':

~ Would it survive until the next day if the "heat of the day" were that long?

~ Would it survive until the next day if the "cool of the night" were that long?

~ Would it survive until the next day if something [ that it needed to survive ] did not come along until the next day?

:)
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LOL we do not need to argue. Let's ask God. God, what does yom mean in Genesis 1?


"My child the answer is simple. 'the light I called YOM.'" Thus yom means a period of light. It specifically excludes night

Now rephrase your argument :)
 
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GaryA

Guest
#769
#769
valiant said:
LOL we do not need to argue. Let's ask God. God, what does yom mean in Genesis 1?


"My child the answer is simple. 'the light I called YOM.'" Thus yom means a period of light. It specifically excludes night

Now rephrase your argument :)
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"I guess you totally missed the first paragraph of my last post...?" :rolleyes:


Genesis 1:

[SUP]5[/SUP] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


Both words 'Day' and 'day' are the same word in the Hebrew. ;)


"Explain that..."


( Do you think that capital 'D' just might be significant? )


In fact, the absolute majority of all of the words 'day(s)' in the entire old testament is this same word. :eek:


Now, you rephrase your argument... :p


:)
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#770
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
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#770
GaryA said:
"I guess you totally missed the first paragraph of my last post...?" :rolleyes:

Genesis 1:
[SUP]5[/SUP] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


Both words 'Day' and 'day' are the same word in the Hebrew. ;)


"Explain that..."
Click to expand...


Very simple if we take God's word as meaning what God said. God made light and called it yom. So yom was a period of light.

Then the first act of creating came to an end when the period of light had ended. 'The dusk and the dawn were of the first period of light.'

Note that if we render as '24 hour day' with the evening opening it THERE WAS IN FACT NO EVENING ON THE FIRST DAY. All was darkness. So the Bible would be incorrect.

yom always means a period of light. The majority just fail to understand it.

( Do you think that capital 'D' just might be significant? )
Click to expand...
There are no capitals in ancient Hebrew.
In fact, the absolute majority of all of the words 'day(s)' in the entire old testament is this same word. :eek:
Click to expand...
And they all mean a period of light. As Jesus said, 'are there not TWELVE hours in the DAY?'
Now, you rephrase your argument... :p
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I have LOL
 
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JackH

Banned
#771
Jun 5, 2014
1,750
6
0
#771
valiant said:


Very simple if we take God's word as meaning what God said. God made light and called it yom. So yom was a period of light.

Then the first act of creating came to an end when the period of light had ended. 'The dusk and the dawn were of the first period of light.'

Note that if we render as '24 hour day' with the evening opening it THERE WAS IN FACT NO EVENING ON THE FIRST DAY. All was darkness. So the Bible would be incorrect.

yom always means a period of light. The majority just fail to understand it.



There are no capitals in ancient Hebrew.


And they all mean a period of light. As Jesus said, 'are there not TWELVE hours in the DAY?'


I have LOL
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Actually, that was very funny, especially your response to the capital D.

Almost as funny as GaryA saying we never went to the moon and it was all a hoax.
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#772
#772
JackH said:
Actually, that was very funny, especially your response to the capital D.

Almost as funny as GaryA saying we never went to the moon and it was all a hoax.
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But not nearly as funny as it will be when people - at some time in the future - read your tombstone, and then ask the question aloud:

"Who in the world is 'GaryA'...???"


Written on the tombstone ( nothing else, just this ):

"GaryA said we never went to the moon and it was all a hoax."


:p

;)

:)
 
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Tintin

Guest
#773
#773
Summary by filming expert:
In 1969 we had the technology to go to the moon, but *not* to fake it in a film studio.

[video=youtube;sGXTF6bs1IU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU[/video]

I'm a biblical creationist. I believe we should read the Bible from a historical-grammatical perspective. Sound exegesis, not problematic eisegesis - that's the way to go.
 
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GaryA

Guest
#774
#774
GaryA said:
Based on Strong's definition, I suggest that it would be closer to the truth to say that the word 'day' means "a period of heat" - as in, "the heat of the day"; the word is based on the heat of the day, and means "one period of heat" ( the daytime ). Where "the length of a day" is concerned, it is a cyclic period ( the 'natural' day, including 'light' and 'dark' ) containing "one period of heat"...


In other words, 'day' [ effectively ] means "one rotation of the earth"... ;)


Whether it was 24 hours, 25 hours, or [ whatever ] - it was one rotation of the earth.

As you read in Genesis what occurred on each day, just remember to consider the following with regard to the 'length' of the 'day':

~ Would it survive until the next day if the "heat of the day" were that long?

~ Would it survive until the next day if the "cool of the night" were that long?

~ Would it survive until the next day if something [ that it needed to survive ] did not come along until the next day?

:)
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GaryA said:
"I guess you totally missed the first paragraph of my last post...?" :rolleyes:


Genesis 1:

[SUP]5[/SUP] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


Both words 'Day' and 'day' are the same word in the Hebrew. ;)


"Explain that..."


( Do you think that capital 'D' just might be significant? )


In fact, the absolute majority of all of the words 'day(s)' in the entire old testament is this same word. :eek:


Now, you rephrase your argument... :p


:)
Click to expand...
<begin QUOTE by valiant>

Very simple if we take God's word as meaning what God said. { Yep. } God made light and called it yom. So yom was a period of light.

Then the first act of creating came to an end when the period of light had ended. 'The dusk and the dawn were of the first period of light.' { dusk-to-dawn is 'dark'; dawn-to-dusk is 'light' }

Note that if we render as '24 hour day' with the evening opening it THERE WAS IN FACT NO EVENING ON THE FIRST DAY. { Sure there was - the evening came before the morning. What part of 'And the evening and the morning were the first day.' do you not understand? In this sentence, God said there was an evening and there was a morning on the first day. Do you not believe God? } All was darkness. { Did God not say "let there be light"...??? Did He not say that He "saw the light, that it was good"...??? ( On the first day? ) All was not darkness. There was light, also. } So the Bible would be incorrect. { The Bible is correct. You are not. }

yom always means a period of light. The majority just fail to understand it. { I believe your understanding is a bit lacking... The good news is - "there is a cure for that" - and it starts with 'humility' and 'listening'... ( "Stop telling God what He said -- that's not what He said. Instead, start listening to what He is trying to tell you." ) }



There are no capitals in ancient Hebrew. { You are totally missing the point. Why is it capitalized in the English? Because, the translators knew enough about the "fine details" of the Hebrew language - including the "sense and tense" of the usage and grammar of the words in the Hebrew language - to properly translate those "fine details" into the equivalent "fine details" in the English. They capitalized it for a reason. ( Same reason as for 'Night'. ) This makes the "sense and tense" of the two words in English ( 'Day' and 'day' in the same verse ) "a little bit different" because of the usage and grammar of the original word in the Hebrew. ( Because the 'difference' in the Hebrew was "carried over" to the English. ) A single word - in any language - does not always contain the full definition "all by itself" -- grammar, context, and usage always play a part in the overall definition of the word. This verse is a perfect illustration of this principle. God calls light 'Day' -- and, in the same sentence, says that a 'day' ( same word as 'Day' ) is ( contains, and is defined by ) both dark and light. }


And they all mean a period of light. As Jesus said, 'are there not TWELVE hours in the DAY?' { "Are you going to list every single 'day(s)' in the Old Testament and show how every single one of them means 'a period of light'...???" }


I have LOL
<end QUOTE>
 
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GaryA

Guest
#775
#775
Tintin said:
Summary by filming expert:
In 1969 we had the technology to go to the moon, ...
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Sorry, Christian, but -- "no we did not"... ;)

I personally understand enough about the physics involved ... to very confidently make this statement...

EDIT: I have not watched the video ( although, I could possibly have seen it some time in the past ); currently, the audio on my computer is not working...

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
#776
#776
GaryA said:
A single word - in any language - does not always contain the full definition "all by itself" -- grammar, context, and usage always play a part in the overall definition of the word. This verse is a perfect illustration of this principle. God calls light 'Day' -- and, in the same sentence, says that a 'day' ( same word as 'Day' ) is ( contains, and is defined by ) both dark and light. }
Click to expand...
The same word [ for ] 'day' can mean "the light(ed) part of the day" or "the full day" ( 'dark' and 'light' / 'light' and 'dark' ) - it depends on grammar, context, and usage of the word.

:)
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#777
#777
Tintin said:
I believe we should read the Bible from a historical-grammatical perspective. Sound exegesis, not problematic eisegesis - that's the way to go.
Click to expand...
I agree. We should listen to what it is trying to tell us -- not "tell it" what it says...

:)
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#778
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#778
GaryA said:
<begin QUOTE by valiant>

Very simple if we take God's word as meaning what God said. { Yep. } God made light and called it yom. So yom was a period of light.

Then the first act of creating came to an end when the period of light had ended. 'The dusk and the dawn were of the first period of light.' { dusk-to-dawn is 'dark'; dawn-to-dusk is 'light' }

Note that if we render as '24 hour day' with the evening opening it THERE WAS IN FACT NO EVENING ON THE FIRST DAY. { Sure there was - the evening came before the morning. What part of 'And the evening and the morning were the first day.' do you not understand? In this sentence, God said there was an evening and there was a morning on the first day. Do you not believe God? } All was darkness. { Did God not say "let there be light"...??? Did He not say that He "saw the light, that it was good"...??? ( On the first day? ) All was not darkness. There was light, also. } So the Bible would be incorrect. { The Bible is correct. You are not. }

yom always means a period of light. The majority just fail to understand it. { I believe your understanding is a bit lacking... The good news is - "there is a cure for that" - and it starts with 'humility' and 'listening'... ( "Stop telling God what He said -- that's not what He said. Instead, start listening to what He is trying to tell you." ) }



There are no capitals in ancient Hebrew. { You are totally missing the point. Why is it capitalized in the English? Because, the translators knew enough about the "fine details" of the Hebrew language - including the "sense and tense" of the usage and grammar of the words in the Hebrew language - to properly translate those "fine details" into the equivalent "fine details" in the English. They capitalized it for a reason. ( Same reason as for 'Night'. ) This makes the "sense and tense" of the two words in English ( 'Day' and 'day' in the same verse ) "a little bit different" because of the usage and grammar of the original word in the Hebrew. ( Because the 'difference' in the Hebrew was "carried over" to the English. ) A single word - in any language - does not always contain the full definition "all by itself" -- grammar, context, and usage always play a part in the overall definition of the word. This verse is a perfect illustration of this principle. God calls light 'Day' -- and, in the same sentence, says that a 'day' ( same word as 'Day' ) is ( contains, and is defined by ) both dark and light. }


And they all mean a period of light. As Jesus said, 'are there not TWELVE hours in the DAY?' { "Are you going to list every single 'day(s)' in the Old Testament and show how every single one of them means 'a period of light'...???" }


I have LOL
<end QUOTE>
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when you can get your jumble sorted out I will guide you to the truth. I really can't waste time on this scramble.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#779
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#779
GaryA said:
The same word [ for ] 'day' can mean "the light(ed) part of the day" or "the full day" ( 'dark' and 'light' / 'light' and 'dark' ) - it depends on grammar, context, and usage of the word.

:)
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give me one example where it can be PROVED to mean a night and a day. The Israelites thought in terms of 'days', that is successive periods of light. They ignored the night apart from when they specifically included it for emphasis e.g. forty days and forty nights.

why did they say that if days included nights?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#780
#780
Exodus 20:11 KJV
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


This verse talks about 7 literal 24 hour days. According to this verse the earth was created in 6 literal 24 hour days. remember this is God talking and giving this commandment. Unless God is wrong the earth was created in 6 literal 24 hour days. Making the earth according to ages and dates in the Bible 6000 years old.
 
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