Law and commandments. Reconciling a contradiction. Needing truthful input.

[just-me]

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus said in John 7:22; “Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.”

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

*Grievous in 1 John 5:3 = 926. barus bar-ooce' from the same as 922; weighty, i.e. (fig) burdensome, grave:--grievous, heavy, weightier.

**Burden Acts 15:28 = 922. baros bar'-os probably from the same as 939 (through the notion of going down; compare 899); weight; in the New Testament only, figuratively, a load, abundance, authority:--burden(-some), weight.

So in Acts 15:5 the Pharisees say that Gentiles should be circumcised according to the law of Moses. Then in John 7:22 Jesus says that circumcision is not of Moses.

Then in Acts 15:10 the disciples say neither they, nor their fathers were able to bear whatever the Pharisees demanded. (was this the law of Moses?) Then in Luke 11:46 Jesus accuses the lawyers of causing grievous burdens.

In Acts 15:19, and 28 the disciples agree that the Gentiles should not have to be troubled with things they themselves cannot even bear. Then John (the beloved) says that God's commandments are not *grievous, related to the **burden described in Acts 15.

My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses? Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the there are two things that should be identified. One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

 

[purgedconscience]

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus said in John 7:22; “Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.”

So in Acts 15:5 the Pharisees say that Gentiles should be circumcised according to the law of Moses. Then in John 7:22 Jesus says that circumcision is not of Moses.

Hi just-me.

There's really no contradiction here. Jesus did say that Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision and Moses did give it unto them because he authored the first 5 books of the Bible which give instruction regarding circumcision. At the same time, however, Jesus merely reminded them that circumcision actually began with Abraham and not with Moses. Paul wrote:

Romans chapter 4 verses 9 thru 12

Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Abraham received the sign of circumcision which was a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised. In other words, Abraham was justified by faith before he was ever circumcised as we see in the Genesis account:

Genesis chapter 15 verse 6

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

This is where Abraham was justified by faith and it preceded him receiving the sign of circumcision by many years:

Genesis chapter 17 verses 10 and 11

This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Again, the sign of circumcision was merely a token of the covenant which had already been established between God and Abraham by faith many years earlier. Faith is the key to understanding the answer to the rest of your questions as well.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathersnor we were able to bear?

Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

*Grievous in 1 John 5:3 = 926. barus bar-ooce' from the same as 922; weighty, i.e. (fig) burdensome, grave:--grievous, heavy, weightier.

**Burden Acts 15:28 = 922. baros bar'-os probably from the same as 939 (through the notion of going down; compare 899); weight; in the New Testament only, figuratively, a load, abundance, authority:--burden(-some), weight.


Then in Acts 15:10 the disciples say neither they, nor their fathers were able to bear whatever the Pharisees demanded. (was this the law of Moses?) Then in Luke 11:46 Jesus accuses the lawyers of causing grievous burdens.

In Acts 15:19, and 28 the disciples agree that the Gentiles should not have to be troubled with things they themselves cannot even bear. Then John (the beloved) says that God's commandments are not *grievous, related to the **burden described in Acts 15.

My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses? Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the there are two things that should be identified. One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

You quoted Luke 11:46, but the parallel account in Matthew's gospel brings clarity to this situation:

Matthew chapter 23 verses 1 thru 4

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus told the multitude and His disciples to observe and do whatever the scribes and Pharisees who sat in Moses' seat told them to do, but He also mentioned heavy burdens which were grievous to be borne and burdens which the scribes and Pharisees would not help them to bear with even one of their fingers. How can both of these things be true? In other words, how could Christ command obedience to that which was heavy and grievous? Well, if we keep on reading, then I think that we find our answer:

Matthew chapter 23 verse 23

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Because the scribes and Pharisees had omitted the weightier matters of the law such as mercy and faith, they made it impossible for the people to obey what God had commanded them to obey. In other words, I believe that it was fully possible for those under the law to actually obey what God commanded if they, like Abraham, had been justified by faith and also if they understood that there was mercy available to them when they momentarily stumbled and then repented.

I hope that this makes sense and that it helps to answer your questions.

 

[Grandpa]

The talmud and extra things that the pharisees attempt to place on believers is the outcome, the necessary outcome, of a carnal understanding.

All who attempt to work at the law in their own understanding will fall into this same example. They will be forced to explain why they follow some laws but do not follow others. They will be forced into an understanding that their work is the cause of their righteousness and obedience. All who work at the law are exactly like the Pharisees before them, whether they know it or not.

The Lord Jesus Christ explains the truth of the law and what it requires. You who desire to be under the law, do you hear what it says? Be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect.

Thats what the Law requires. That's why all who work at it are heavily burdened. Its a yoke that the disciples and their ancestors could not bear. No one can bear it.

Romans 3:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But the Love of God, given through Christ, tells a different story.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Ezekiel 36:25-27

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Ephesians 2:8-9

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Walking in Gods Statutes and Keeping His Judgements is a gift. Not of works. Everything that is needful and desired for salvation is given by God as a gift. We accept these gifts through faith.

Romans 3:21-26

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


People try to excuse themselves from faith, because they don't understand. They start manipulating scriptures so they can go back to working at the law because it is familiar. Everyone is under the law until they come to Christ.


This isn't the reconciliation of a 'contradiction'.

This is the Revelation of Christ.

 

[just-me]

The talmud and extra things that the pharisees attempt to place on believers is the outcome, the necessary outcome, of a carnal understanding.

All who attempt to work at the law in their own understanding will fall into this same example. They will be forced to explain why they follow some laws but do not follow others. They will be forced into an understanding that their work is the cause of their righteousness and obedience. All who work at the law are exactly like the Pharisees before them, whether they know it or not.

The Lord Jesus Christ explains the truth of the law and what it requires. You who desire to be under the law, do you hear what it says? Be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect.

Thats what the Law requires. That's why all who work at it are heavily burdened. Its a yoke that the disciples and their ancestors could not bear. No one can bear it.

Romans 3:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But the Love of God, given through Christ, tells a different story.
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Ezekiel 36:25-27

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Galatians 5:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Ephesians 2:8-9

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Walking in Gods Statutes and Keeping His Judgements is a gift. Not of works. Everything that is needful and desired for salvation is given by God as a gift. We accept these gifts through faith.

Romans 3:21-26

[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


People try to excuse themselves from faith, because they don't understand. They start manipulating scriptures so they can go back to working at the law because it is familiar. Everyone is under the law until they come to Christ.


This isn't the reconciliation of a 'contradiction'.

This is the Revelation of Christ.

I agree, and will add what Jesus told the hypocritical Pharisees concerning the real truth in the law. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23

Only the mind, soul, and heart that is ministered to by the Holy Spirit can see the righteous judgment, mercy, and faith in the law. The carnal mind is incapable "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7

 

[atwhatcost]

Whew! I'm glad you just want truthful input, and not an answer that's easy to understand. I can give you truthful input. I can't give you any answers.

"I don't know." <--------truthful input

I might be able to study it and figure it out, but I think that would take years and I'm working on a little something before that -- trying to get the whole Bible in order. So, I'll get back to you after I get what I'm working on. Don't hold your breathe. At the rate I'm going, I'll be 70 by the time I'm done this study. lol

(Mostly, I answered to let you know I often see your questions and read, but generally walk away because I can't answer them. )

 

[just-me]

[video=youtube;CeyajxMS8Jo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=CeyajxMS8Jo[/video]

I was sent this in a PM and thought that I should share it with all who read this thread. May God bless all who desire to comprehend. I was blessed by this video, even though I think it's just an outline of the reality the disciples were facing at that time.

 

[Elin]

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus said in John 7:22; “Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.”

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathersnor we were able to bear?

Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

*Grievous in 1 John 5:3 = 926. barus bar-ooce' from the same as 922; weighty, i.e. (fig) burdensome, grave:--grievous, heavy, weightier.

**Burden Acts 15:28 = 922. baros bar'-os probably from the same as 939 (through the notion of going down; compare 899); weight; in the New Testament only, figuratively, a load, abundance, authority:--burden(-some), weight.

So in Acts 15:5 the Pharisees say that Gentiles should be circumcised according to the law of Moses. Then in John 7:22 Jesus says that circumcision is not of Moses.

Then in Acts 15:10 the disciples say neither they, nor their fathers were able to bear whatever the Pharisees demanded. (was this the law of Moses?) Then in Luke 11:46 Jesus accuses the lawyers of causing grievous burdens.

In Acts 15:19, and 28 the disciples agree that the Gentiles should not have to be troubled with things they themselves cannot even bear. Then John (the beloved) says that God's commandments are not *grievous, related to the **burden described in Acts 15.

My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses? Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the
there are two things that should be identified.
One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

The Mosaic regulations and the Pharisaical additions were grievous and burdensome.
The Ten Commandments were not, particularly since they are fulfilled in obedience to the two laws of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Ro 13:8, 9, 10;
1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8).

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The fleshy outward circumcision in the letter of the law was for a sign (token) type and shadow of the true spiritual circumcision of the heart when a person is made a new creature in Christ.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[just-me]

The fleshy outward circumcision in the letter of the law was for a sign (token) type and shadow of the true spiritual circumcision of the heart when a person is made a new creature in Christ.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

AMEN!!

The laws that came from the Spirit of God via Moses for Israel are not burdensome or too grievous to bear because we have an advocate with the Father in Christ Jesus. New Testament philosophy of spiritual circumcision was first introduced by the writings of Moses.

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Neither are the words of the prophet too grievous to bear.

Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings. Jeremiah 4:4

Neither are Paul's letters.

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:29

The letter of the law versus the spirit of the law is an idiomatic antithesis. When one obeys the letter of the law but not the spirit, one is obeying the literal interpretation of the words (the "letter") of the law, but not necessarily the intent of those who wrote the law.

Colossians 2:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

The "letter of the law" (which is only physical observance) includes physical circumcision passed down from Abraham. See John 7:22 The Spirit of the law is the circumcision of the heart as written by Moses in Deuteronomy 10:16, and 30:6 being the same as Paul's writings.

 

[Elin]

The fleshy outward circumcision in the letter of the law
was for a sign (token) type and shadow of the true spiritual circumcision of the heart when a person is made a new creature in Christ.

Actually, it was the sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

Circumcision of the heart as well as of the foreskin, was a matter of law, legislated (Dt 10:16, 30:6; Jer 4:4, 9:25-26).

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Galatians 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

AMEN!!

The laws that came from the Spirit of God via Moses for Israel are not burdensome or too grievous to bear because we have an advocate with the Father in Christ Jesus. New Testament philosophy of spiritual circumcision was first introduced by the writings of Moses.

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Deuteronomy 10:16

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Deuteronomy 30:6

Neither are the words of the prophet too grievous to bear.

Circumcise yourselves to the Lord, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings. Jeremiah 4:4

Neither are Paul's letters.

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:29

The letter of the law versus the spirit of the law is an idiomatic antithesis. When one obeys the letter of the law but not the spirit, one is obeying the literal interpretation of the words (the "letter") of the law, but not necessarily the intent of those who wrote the law.

Colossians 2:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

The "letter of the law" (which is only physical observance) includes physical circumcision passed down from Abraham. See John 7:22 The Spirit of the law is the circumcision of the heart as written by Moses in Deuteronomy 10:16, and 30:6 being the same as Paul's writings.

Yea, and the Lord also circumcises the ear so that it can hear what the Spirit is truly saying in the law and prophets.

Jeremiah 6:10
To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the Lord is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it.

Acts 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yea, and the Lord also circumcises the ear so that it can hear what the Spirit is truly saying in the law and prophets.

Jeremiah 6:10
To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the Lord is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it.

Acts 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Proverbs 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them.

 

[MarcR]

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus said in John 7:22; “Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.”

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathersnor we were able to bear?

Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

*Grievous in 1 John 5:3 = 926. barus bar-ooce' from the same as 922; weighty, i.e. (fig) burdensome, grave:--grievous, heavy, weightier.

**Burden Acts 15:28 = 922. baros bar'-os probably from the same as 939 (through the notion of going down; compare 899); weight; in the New Testament only, figuratively, a load, abundance, authority:--burden(-some), weight.

So in Acts 15:5 the Pharisees say that Gentiles should be circumcised according to the law of Moses. Then in John 7:22 Jesus says that circumcision is not of Moses.

Then in Acts 15:10 the disciples say neither they, nor their fathers were able to bear whatever the Pharisees demanded. (was this the law of Moses?) Then in Luke 11:46 Jesus accuses the lawyers of causing grievous burdens.

In Acts 15:19, and 28 the disciples agree that the Gentiles should not have to be troubled with things they themselves cannot even bear. Then John (the beloved) says that God's commandments are not *grievous, related to the **burden described in Acts 15.

My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses? Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the there are two things that should be identified. One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

just me,

IMO, we must start with the premise that Salvation, in OT times, as now, was by faith in God's provision for our sin(s); and not by works.

Under that premise, we may view the Law as a set of precepts for successful living.

What was grievious and burdensome, was Rabbinic interpretation of the Law; which attempted to change the Law from a set of precepts for successful living to a pathway to righteousness.

What is neither grievious nor burdensome is Rom 8:2
the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus
KJV

 

[JGIG]

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus said in John 7:22; “Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.”

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathersnor we were able to bear?

Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

*Grievous in 1 John 5:3 = 926. barus bar-ooce' from the same as 922; weighty, i.e. (fig) burdensome, grave:--grievous, heavy, weightier.

**Burden Acts 15:28 = 922. baros bar'-os probably from the same as 939 (through the notion of going down; compare 899); weight; in the New Testament only, figuratively, a load, abundance, authority:--burden(-some), weight.

So in Acts 15:5 the Pharisees say that Gentiles should be circumcised according to the law of Moses. Then in John 7:22 Jesus says that circumcision is not of Moses.

Then in Acts 15:10 the disciples say neither they, nor their fathers were able to bear whatever the Pharisees demanded. (was this the law of Moses?) Then in Luke 11:46 Jesus accuses the lawyers of causing grievous burdens.

In Acts 15:19, and 28 the disciples agree that the Gentiles should not have to be troubled with things they themselves cannot even bear. Then John (the beloved) says that God's commandments are not *grievous, related to the **burden described in Acts 15.

My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses? Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the there are two things that should be identified. One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

No, not seemingly.

They aren't all defining the Law of Moses.

John clearly defines the commandments of God after the Cross in 1 John 3 as thus:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
​

The Law of Moses was burdensome, even though the Israelites arrogantly told God that they would do everything He commanded them to do. This after not being able to follow directions properly on how to collect manna. And they proved over and over that though they said they would obey, they didn't.

The Law of God after the Cross is believe and love: Believe in Christ and love one another.

Here’s the really cool thing:

Love is a Fruit of the Spirit as well as a command. (Galatians 5:22-23)

Though love is a command, it’s also a fruit.

God commands us to love, then His Spirit in us is the provision to fulfill the command.

Grace is so cool \o/.

-JGIG

 

[Elin]

No, not seemingly.

They aren't all defining the Law of Moses.

John clearly defines the commandments of God after the Cross in 1 John 3 as thus:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
​

The Law of Moses was burdensome, even though the Israelites arrogantly told God that they would do everything He commanded them to do. This after not being able to follow directions properly on how to collect manna. And they proved over and over that though they said they would obey, they didn't.

The Law of God after the Cross is believe and love: Believe in Christ and love one another.

Here’s the really cool thing:

Love is a Fruit of the Spirit as well as a command. (Galatians 5:22-23)

Though love is a command, it’s also a fruit.

God commands us to love, then His Spirit in us is the provision to fulfill the command.

Grace is so cool \o/.

-JGIG

Secrets of the Kingdom

1) What God requires of us, he provides for us; e.g.,
--he requires payment for our sin, he provides payment for our sin (Ro 3:25);
--he requires faith for salvation (Jn 3:18), he provides faith for salvation (Jn 6:65; Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27).

2) Every precept is a promise (power goes along with the command); e.g.,
--"Be ye perfect (complete)" (Mt 5:18) is a promise that we shall be perfect/complete (Heb 10:14),
for sincerity is counted as gospel perfection;
--the precept to persevere (Mt 10:22; Lk 21:19) is a promise that the born again shall persevere
(Php 1:6; Heb 10:14, 6:17-20; Ro 8:38-39; 1Pe 1:5).

3) God crowns (rewards) his own grace and work in us (Php 2:12-13, Ro 1:17)
which is why we will cast our golden crowns (rewards--2Tim 4:8; Jas 1:12; 1Pe 5:4; Rev 2:10, 3:11)
at the foot of his throne (Rev 4:4, 10).

Grace is so cool \o/.

 

[royalscot]

context of acts 15, was to do with the gentile. now they have been given the holy spirit.
(around 48ad)
The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.1





not again going in to jewish territory.( again)

context to acts 15
who told the gentile the law of moses. they just found out gentiles were given the holy spirit.( the torah has took jewish people years to understand what was in it, because they could not read it, like we can, having the full bible at hand, makes it easier for us etc. that why the time frame of history, is needed to understand acts 15.

28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. acts 10



jesus was back in heaven. ie new covenant. was john at this meeting. so are you trying to play law v grace from the stand point of the law of moses. ie john and jesus are jewish, followed these high lighted verses. the temple of stone.

context to acts 15 , is gentiles not jewish law requirements, used in temple of stone.
My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses?Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the there are two things that should be identified. One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

state a clearer question. and be reminded, 70 ad. there is no temple of stone, so who can follow the full law of moses with out a temple of stone , given the requirement the temple of stone had on this law.

so all who read the bible, after 70ad there would not be a temple there. (1500 ad bible gos to print est)etc

so being mind readers , to how think, or write in different time in history, is a major factor to be addressed.

and needs to be in context to that time in history. ie holy spirit give to the jewish, (acts 2) then given to a gentile. (acts 10) around 10 - 18 years difference here. acts 2( around 32 ad) to acts 10 to act 15 (48 ad) est

 

[ChrisHill]

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus said in John 7:22; “Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.”

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathersnor we were able to bear?

Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

*Grievous in 1 John 5:3 = 926. barus bar-ooce' from the same as 922; weighty, i.e. (fig) burdensome, grave:--grievous, heavy, weightier.

**Burden Acts 15:28 = 922. baros bar'-os probably from the same as 939 (through the notion of going down; compare 899); weight; in the New Testament only, figuratively, a load, abundance, authority:--burden(-some), weight.

So in Acts 15:5 the Pharisees say that Gentiles should be circumcised according to the law of Moses. Then in John 7:22 Jesus says that circumcision is not of Moses.

Then in Acts 15:10 the disciples say neither they, nor their fathers were able to bear whatever the Pharisees demanded. (was this the law of Moses?) Then in Luke 11:46 Jesus accuses the lawyers of causing grievous burdens.

In Acts 15:19, and 28 the disciples agree that the Gentiles should not have to be troubled with things they themselves cannot even bear. Then John (the beloved) says that God's commandments are not *grievous, related to the **burden described in Acts 15.

My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses? Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the there are two things that should be identified. One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

What you are seeing here in Acts is the corruption of the early church. At the beginning of Acts:

[Act 2:44 NKJV] Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
[Act 2:42 NKJV] And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Then a little later

[Act 4:32 NKJV] Now the multitude (read:most) of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.

And after this problems start arising...

[Act 5:1 NKJV] But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession.
[Act 5:2 NKJV] And he kept back [part] of the proceeds, his wife also being aware [of it], and brought a certain part and laid [it] at the apostles' feet.

And at that time the 'elders of Israel' weren't so simpathetic

[Act 5:21 NKJV] And when they heard [that], they entered the temple early in the morning and taught. But the high priest and those with him came and called the council together, with all the elders of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.

and

[Act 6:12 NKJV] And they stirred up the people, the elders, and the scribes; and they came upon [him], seized him, and brought [him] to the council.

Then after a while the elders become leaders in the church along with the apostles...

[Act 15:2 NKJV] Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.

[Act 15:2 NKJV] Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
[Act 15:6 NKJV] Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[Act 15:22 NKJV] Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, [namely], Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
[Act 15:23 NKJV] They wrote this [letter] by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.

...You will note that this letter sort of 'settles' the dispute, but what's going on here? Nothing good, that's for sure.

And Paul says Peter was playing the hypocrite due to these politics of the elders back in Jerusalem,

[Gal 2:11 NKJV] Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed;
[Gal 2:12 NKJV] for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.
[Gal 2:13 NKJV] And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

And finally Paul gets set up and arrested, and the apostles are nowhere to be seen in the church leadership any longer...

[Act 21:18 NKJV] On the following [day] Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
[Act 21:19 NKJV] When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
[Act 21:20 NKJV] And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
[Act 21:21 NKJV] "but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children nor to walk according to the customs.
[Act 21:22 NKJV] "What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
[Act 21:23 NKJV] "Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.

And so Paul does and gets arrested by Rome.

They used the law (and circumcision itself) as a tool to conquer the leadership of the early church, and take control of it. How else could they have weeded out enough truth to get to Catholicism in such short order? =)

 

[royalscot]

most apostles were dead before 70 ad.

how the bible went to print is a different story. it cost money to have a roman citizenship. (roman citizenship is different from catholicism)

acts 2, all were jewish at pentecoste. ie who told a gentile about jesus christ.


28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. acts 10

so when he was arrested(paul) had two choices go with jewish or the romans. either way . knowing history, would have led to death.


the early church met in secret. ie with gentile in it. how could they be excepted by the non christain jews.
28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. acts 10
ie gentiles.

 

[Magenta]

Thank you so much for asking this question, as the answers were very edifying

 

[flob]

My question is; what are the disciples describing in Acts chapter 15 when both Jesus and John are seemingly defining the same entity as they are, yet they seem totally contradictory if they are all defining the law of Moses? Instead of one thing being described, it appears to me the there are two things that should be identified. One is burdensome, and the other isn't. What are they?

Yes the new commandments are love. And grace supplies. The old commandments are the old ceremonial things, as well as the 'works of law' Paul condemns in Rm 3--4