When does the rapture occur?

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KennethC

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Revelation 11:1-13

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.



All the events in Revelation 11:1-13 are taking place on earth, and not up in heaven as I clearly showed by highlighting key words in this passage to prove it. You can continue to spiritualize it and say it is in heaven all you like, but the passage clearly says where this temple is located.

And this is not after the millennial because it shows the beast/man of sin is doing the slaughtering here, and he gets cast into the lake of fire before the millennial !!!

Daniel chapters 11 and 12 also are parallel to this teaching in Revelation 11, as Revelation is a part of the key to unlocking Daniel's book !!!
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:



These two scriptures from the Lord Jesus are parallel passages to these two;


2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 13:6
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Not really. The first two passages you cite deal with the Abomination of Desolation. The next two passages from 2 Thes 2 and Rev 13 deals with the Man of Sin.
 
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popeye

Guest
Plainword. At last I found someone on this site who knows what they are talking about when discussing this subject.
I look forwood to seeing more of your comments.
He believes the AC is NOT a world leader,world executioner of saints,and all GT events are middle east/muslim/islam EXCLUSIVELY.
 
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popeye

Guest
A good little write-up my friend, but in need of further research.

Christ Jesus, while the Word at the beginning of creation and Jesus while on earth, was already known as Michael long before this. He is the one who stood against the angelic princes who tried to prevent Daniel receiving the prophetic word of God. (Daniel 10:12, 13)

In Revelation 12:7-12 we have Christ in his capacity again as God's champion against the dragon [Satan] who is ousted from heaven and cast down to the earth. Now next to Michael [Christ], Satan is the most powerful angelic creature in existence. No other angelic creature would be able to stand against him.

Almighty God of course, is the most powerful of all, but he is a being,; not having been created; plus the issue between him and Satan is a moral one whereby God is already putting his Legal Precedent in place.

Satan would never have challenged Almighty on the question of strength, because on that basis; he would lose.

Satan is more subltle, and so he challenged God on the moral basis of obedience; in that God could not put a perfect man on the earth who would remain faithful to him.

God therefore took up the challenge and at the appointed time, Jesus arrived to prove the issue and by his ransom sacrifice; remove the curse of Adamic death from all mankind and open the way to the hope of everlasting life on the earth by way of the resurrection.

The so-called 'rapture' is actually the raising up by re-creation, of his heavenly 'little flock' who will rule with Christ in the heavens as kings and priests during the thousand year reign of the Christ. (Revelation 20:6)

Alexander.
Michael = Christ??

You are watchtower. Right?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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He believes the AC is NOT a world leader,world executioner of saints,and all GT events are middle east/muslim/islam EXCLUSIVELY.
The Man of Sin (AKA AC) is a world leader, but not the leader of the whole world - if that makes sense. He does kill saints everywhere that he can. He is Muslim and he leads the Muslim nations against Israel. The GT is aimed at Jews and Christians by primarily the followers of Islam.

God's wrath comes after the GT and is in direct response to it. God's wrath is poured out against primarily the Islamic nations. I believe the Muslim world is absolutely wiped out at the 6th Trumpet when 1/3 of the world is killed. Christ returns after all of this. ...Just to state more clearly what I believe.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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He believes the AC is NOT a world leader,world executioner of saints,and all GT events are middle east/muslim/islam EXCLUSIVELY.
One of the problems you have (as do most) is they fail to understand that the word "earth" does not equate to "entire planet." This is how you see a global AC taking over the entire planet rather than a regional domination. You have to look at how the word "earth" and phrase "whole earth" was used by the OT prophets to understand how John uses it then in Revelation. For example this from Daniel 7 and 8:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth.

Ask yourself, "Did these 4 beasts take over the whole earth or where they regional?" History tells us they were Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece under Alexander and Rome. None of these empires took over the entire planet. They took over most of the known earth. If you look at maps of their empires, they pretty much controlled the same part of the planet.

“Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.

This was Rome. Rome did not control the entire planet did it? Rome controlled most of the known world of its time.

And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Now this verse really illustrates my point. We don't have to guess who or what the Male Goat is as Gabriel himself tells Daniel here:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king.

The first king was Alexander. So even though we are told the male goat comes across the surface of the WHOLE EARTH we know that Alexander came across only a small part of the earth to defeat Medo Persia. The territory Alexander controlled is shown below. It hardly represents the whole planet.



But Popeye you are free to continue to believe as you do that there will be some European dude who will force everyone to take a micro chip and the entire planet will have to bow down and worship him if you want to or that the Pope will just declare that he is God some day or whatever it is you believe. But I'm telling you that it will be a Muslim who will unite the Muslim world and they will do great harm wherever they can and they will kill every Christian and Jew they can find within their spheres of influence. They will attack Israel and nearly wipe her out before God intervenes.
 
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KennethC

Guest
Not really. The first two passages you cite deal with the Abomination of Desolation. The next two passages from 2 Thes 2 and Rev 13 deals with the Man of Sin.

The A.O. D. is the man of sin standing in the temple defiling it by claiming to be God !!!
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Revelation 11:1-13

11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.



All the events in Revelation 11:1-13 are taking place on earth, and not up in heaven as I clearly showed by highlighting key words in this passage to prove it. You can continue to spiritualize it and say it is in heaven all you like, but the passage clearly says where this temple is located.

And this is not after the millennial because it shows the beast/man of sin is doing the slaughtering here, and he gets cast into the lake of fire before the millennial !!!
The main point I am trying to make is that there is no definitive teaching that a third man-made temple will be constructed in Jerusalem before Christ returns or the Man of Sin appears for that matter. Again, a third temple could be built by man and I'm not ruling it out. I'm just saying we don't have concrete evidence that it will happen and a spiritual passage from a spiritual book where spiritual temples in heaven are in heavy use should give us pause about creating an earthly temple when one is not specifically taught.

The fact that most of the verses you quote (3-13 or sure) take place on earth does not prove that the temple discussed in verse 1 is also on earth. John jumps back and forth throughout Revelation showing us events that unfold both in heaven and on earth. He does it in Rev 6 transitioning from the 4th seal which takes place on earth to the souls in heaven at the 5th seal and again in Rev 7 with the 144K and GM. In Rev 8 John starts the Chapter showing us a scene in heaven before the trumpets are blown affecting things on earth. So, it would not be out of line to suggest that in Rev 11 John is told to measure (or count) those serving in the Temple of God in heaven then discuss those serving God on earth (i.e. the 2 witnesses).

Further, I notice that you did not highlight a single word from verse 1 as being on earth.:D:D.

I know it is not millennial. The 2 witnesses are still alive. I'm saying the temple is in heaven. The court which is without the temple, which is the current condition today, is on earth.

Your view is that the Jews somehow either tear down the Dome of the Rock and build in its place a third temple or that they build a third temple next to the Dome of the Rock then start worshiping there again. Meanwhile apparently you think the Arab world will be content to allow that to happen and the Palestinians will be treading around outside in the court yard for 42 months likely trying to destroy the temple yet again.

Can you imagine the anger of the Muslim world? Can you imagine the security situation? The Jews aren't even allowed up on the Temple mount to pray, let alone build a temple and restart animal sacrifices with prayer. Let's say the above all happens, then God would have to destroy the third temple Himself so that He can bring down the one from heaven, so now you are going to have a total of 4 temples.

Sorry Kenneth, I don't see any scenario where a third earthly temple will be build by Jews without them completely removing all Muslims from the country and we know that doesn't happen until after Christ returns.
 
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KennethC

Guest
The main point I am trying to make is that there is no definitive teaching that a third man-made temple will be constructed in Jerusalem before Christ returns or the Man of Sin appears for that matter. Again, a third temple could be built by man and I'm not ruling it out. I'm just saying we don't have concrete evidence that it will happen and a spiritual passage from a spiritual book where spiritual temples in heaven are in heavy use should give us pause about creating an earthly temple when one is not specifically taught.

The fact that most of the verses you quote (3-13 or sure) take place on earth does not prove that the temple discussed in verse 1 is also on earth. John jumps back and forth throughout Revelation showing us events that unfold both in heaven and on earth. He does it in Rev 6 transitioning from the 4th seal which takes place on earth to the souls in heaven at the 5th seal and again in Rev 7 with the 144K and GM. In Rev 8 John starts the Chapter showing us a scene in heaven before the trumpets are blown affecting things on earth. So, it would not be out of line to suggest that in Rev 11 John is told to measure (or count) those serving in the Temple of God in heaven then discuss those serving God on earth (i.e. the 2 witnesses).

Further, I notice that you did not highlight a single word from verse 1 as being on earth.:D:D.

I know it is not millennial. The 2 witnesses are still alive. I'm saying the temple is in heaven. The court which is without the temple, which is the current condition today, is on earth.

Your view is that the Jews somehow either tear down the Dome of the Rock and build in its place a third temple or that they build a third temple next to the Dome of the Rock then start worshiping there again. Meanwhile apparently you think the Arab world will be content to allow that to happen and the Palestinians will be treating around outside in the court yard for 42 months. Can you imagine the anger of the Muslim world? Can you imagine the security situation? The Jews aren't even allowed up on the Temple mount to pray, let alone build a temple and restart animal sacrifices with prayer.

Sorry Kenneth, I don't see any scenario where a third earthly temple will be build by Jews without them completely removing all Muslims from the country and we know that doesn't happen until after Christ returns.

Well that is your choice to not see it as Verse 2 shows clearly that this temple is on earth in Jerusalem, and Daniel 8:13, 11:31, and 12:11 are cross references to this passage.
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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The A.O. D. is the man of sin standing in the temple defiling it by claiming to be God !!!
I think I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one Kenneth:D:D.

First off, we have some important facts to consider. Let's start in Dan 12.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So we know that it will be (or was) 1,290 days (or years as some suggest) from the time the "daily sacrifices" were taken away until the A of D was set up.

Now check out the sequence in the below and it is a sequence as proven by the use of the word "then." This means we have to have a 3rd temple built, the sacrifices resume then taken away again, then the A of D stands in the temple some 1290 days or 3.58 years later.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.


1. Forces mustered by him (presumable the Man of Sin)
2. They (the forces) defile the sanctuary fortress
3. They (the forces) take away the daily sacrifices
4. They (the forces) place there the A of D (1,290 days later).

From the two passages we are told the A of D is "placed" and/or it is "set up." Jesus tells us the A of D is "standing." I supposed your view is that the Man of Sin musters forces and they place or set him up in the Temple? Strange choice of words to use for a person.

The other problem you have with your theory is the sequence. Clearly the sanctuary fortress is defiled before the daily sacrifices are taken away which happens 1,290 days (or years) and before the A of D is set up. So the A of D cannot be what defiles the sanctuary fortress.

I always took the A of D to be an image, this image:

...telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed...

It is this image that if you don't worship it causes you to be killed. This is what causes people to flee not some dude standing in the Holy Place of the temple where he would be invisible to all outside.
 
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KennethC

Guest
I think I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one Kenneth:D:D.

First off, we have some important facts to consider. Let's start in Dan 12.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So we know that it will be (or was) 1,290 days (or years as some suggest) from the time the "daily sacrifices" were taken away until the A of D was set up.

Now check out the sequence in the below and it is a sequence as proven by the use of the word "then." This means we have to have a 3rd temple built, the sacrifices resume then taken away again, then the A of D stands in the temple some 1290 days or 3.58 years later.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.


1. Forces mustered by him (presumable the Man of Sin)
2. They (the forces) defile the sanctuary fortress
3. They (the forces) take away the daily sacrifices
4. They (the forces) place there the A of D (1,290 days later).

From the two passages we are told the A of D is "placed" and/or it is "set up." Jesus tells us the A of D is "standing." I supposed your view is that the Man of Sin musters forces and they place or set him up in the Temple? Strange choice of words to use for a person.

The other problem you have with your theory is the sequence. Clearly the sanctuary fortress is defiled before the daily sacrifices are taken away which happens 1,290 days (or years) and before the A of D is set up. So the A of D cannot be what defiles the sanctuary fortress.

I always took the A of D to be an image, this image:

...telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. [SUP]15 [/SUP]He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed...

It is this image that if you don't worship it causes you to be killed. This is what causes people to flee not some dude standing in the Holy Place of the temple where he would be invisible to all outside.

No you are misunderstanding that scripture in Daniel 12:11, for it is not saying there is 1,290 days between the putting an end of the daily sacrifices to when the A.O.D. is set up.

It is saying there that when you see those 2 events that is the amount of time left marking the final events of the tribulation period. The 3 1/2 years or 1,260 days where the man of sin will start killing Christians and Jews at an all time high as never been done before, and then the final 30 days counted for in Daniel is the period where God's wrath is poured out.......
 
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popeye

Guest
One of the problems you have (as do most) is they fail to understand that the word "earth" does not equate to "entire planet." This is how you see a global AC taking over the entire planet rather than a regional domination. You have to look at how the word "earth" and phrase "whole earth" was used by the OT prophets to understand how John uses it then in Revelation. For example this from Daniel 7 and 8:

[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth.

Ask yourself, "Did these 4 beasts take over the whole earth or where they regional?" History tells us they were Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece under Alexander and Rome. None of these empires took over the entire planet. They took over most of the known earth. If you look at maps of their empires, they pretty much controlled the same part of the planet.

“Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.

This was Rome. Rome did not control the entire planet did it? Rome controlled most of the known world of its time.

And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Now this verse really illustrates my point. We don't have to guess who or what the Male Goat is as Gabriel himself tells Daniel here:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king.

The first king was Alexander. So even though we are told the male goat comes across the surface of the WHOLE EARTH we know that Alexander came across only a small part of the earth to defeat Medo Persia. The territory Alexander controlled is shown below. It hardly represents the whole planet.



But Popeye you are free to continue to believe as you do that there will be some European dude who will force everyone to take a micro chip and the entire planet will have to bow down and worship him if you want to or that the Pope will just declare that he is God some day or whatever it is you believe. But I'm telling you that it will be a Muslim who will unite the Muslim world and they will do great harm wherever they can and they will kill every Christian and Jew they can find within their spheres of influence. They will attack Israel and nearly wipe her out before God intervenes.
It was I that told you about the mahadi. So you are wrong about me. Muslims are players big time. That info has been around for years.
 
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popeye

Guest
Sorry my dear fellow, the prophecy which you have just commented on which is actually Daniel 9:24-27 is known as the "jewel" of all the prophecies relating to the Messiah; it has nothing to do with either the so-called rapture nor the great tribulation.

SEVENTY WEEKS
[Daniel 9:24]
This prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27.” concerns what is described in Bible Prophecy as the ‘Jewel’ in the matter of identifying the Messiah while confirming the accurate date of his arrival.


This is just one example in which we can confirm the inspired way in which the Creator has provided us with the means to check his prophetic Word.


Alexander

From watchtower;

"A Messianic Prophecy.
It is quite evident that this prophecy is a “jewel” in the matter of identifying the Messiah. It is of the utmost importance to determine the time of the beginning of the 70 weeks, as well as their length. "

This is just one example in which we can confirm the inspired way in which the Creator has provided us with the means to check his prophetic Word.

Tell us,is Jesus the creator according to John 1 ????
 
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popeye

Guest
Question;
Will JW's take the mark???

After all,Jesus to them,is just a prophet

however,here would be their only chance at salvation,(through martyrdom)
 
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tanach

Guest
cerialis That is an interesting interpretation. Do I detect an SDA influence there? PLease check out the comparison
between Matthew 24 and Revelation six. Both passages were given by Jesus himself.
 
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biblicaltruth15

Guest

From watchtower;

"A Messianic Prophecy.
It is quite evident that this prophecy is a “jewel” in the matter of identifying the Messiah. It is of the utmost importance to determine the time of the beginning of the 70 weeks, as well as their length. "


Tell us,is Jesus the creator according to John 1 ????
[/QUOT


Sorry, but a thread on "70 WEEKS" will soon be started cuz many are getting this twisted. Now this is not on purpose but perhaps a mistake that often happens in calculation and no one is above such. Thanks!
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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No you are misunderstanding that scripture in Daniel 12:11, for it is not saying there is 1,290 days between the putting an end of the daily sacrifices to when the A.O.D. is set up.

It is saying there that when you see those 2 events that is the amount of time left marking the final events of the tribulation period. The 3 1/2 years or 1,260 days where the man of sin will start killing Christians and Jews at an all time high as never been done before, and then the final 30 days counted for in Daniel is the period where God's wrath is poured out.......
Actually that isn't what it says at all. Please look at it again:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

To mean what you suggest, it would have to say this:


[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, until the end there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Then what about the 1,335 days?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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It was I that told you about the mahadi. So you are wrong about me. Muslims are players big time. That info has been around for years.
I'm glad you are on board with Islam being the "Mother of all Harlots and the Abomination of the Earth." Since Islam is the "Abomination of the Earth" doesn't it stand to figure that the Abomination of Desolation will also be Islamic?

This:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Could be related to this:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”

and this:

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
 
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popeye

Guest
I'm glad you are on board with Islam being the "Mother of all Harlots and the Abomination of the Earth." Since Islam is the "Abomination of the Earth" doesn't it stand to figure that the Abomination of Desolation will also be Islamic?

This:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Could be related to this:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”

and this:

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

To me the AC is still a mystery. Could be muslim,could be others.I m leaning toward muslim,but obama showed us you can be muslim and other things at the same time.