Cut the flesh or die!

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Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#1
Exodus 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn,that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.

Moses is called to deliver Israel out of the hand of Pharaoh. He spent 40 years in Arabia in the wilderness herding sheep, God preparing him for this very thing.
God's people are about to be set free. But Moses still isn't quite ready. He is being disobedient to the Abrahamic covenant.
He hadn't circumcised his son. Probably because he listened to his wife Zipporah. She seemed to have an adversion toward it accusing Moses of being a bloody husband. She took a sharp stone and cut the flesh away and threw it at his feet.

In the spiritual sense today, there seems to be an adversion toward following Gods instructions for body life and fellowship.
Most, if not all, 'church' gatherings operate by the flesh for the flesh. There is little to no Spirit in the meetings at all anymore.
There was a time that God would visit our religious services occasionally and bless the folks in spite of the mechanics of the assembly being a thousand light years away from the NT paradigm.

If the saints would be honest and look at 1Cor.12 and 14 and Romans12 and Ephesians 4, for starters, they would be forced to scratch their heads in bewilderment over the oddity, the freak of what we label 'church' today.
Instead of threatening the ekklesia with physical death like what was apparent in the Moses account, God has withdrawn His life giving Spirit from our gatherings. He'll not be content with the arm of flesh in control with pre-packaged dry religious services manipulated by the hand of man any longer.
We cannot expect to deliver anyone let alone the whole body of Christ while flesh is still the agent and tool being used.

Moses was about to try to do the work of God, while openly disobeying God on the matter of circumcision.
The new covenant speaks of the circumcision of the heart being necessary at the re-birth. Why is it that we know this truth yet desire to continue now to do all things religious by the corrupt flesh? A mystery indeed.

Paul said we begin in the Spirit then wind up walking and doing by the flesh!

We'll deliver no one while we are not delivered ourselves.

Again the problem was so severe and debilitating in the Moses story that God was willing to kill Moses first before He would allow him to plow forward in his ministry while 'the cutting away of the flesh' had been ignored!

Thank God He is so longsuffering with us. However, I have seen men brought low and even visited by death who refused to let go of the exalted position of control, over folks. I've written about it on this site. See: which pastor.

Even King David, a man after God's own heart, met with disaster by halling the ark the wrong way, clearly disobeying Gods guidelines.

Many are sick and frail and poor because the 'church' is not discerning the 'body of Christ'. Flesh and mental ascent, and not knowing the 'still small voice' and His leading, and gifts and functions not allowed to manifest and operate within the gathering is doing untold damage to the believers.

Deliverance is taught ad nauseum yet deliverance is rarely attained. Flesh is the culprit that hinders, the malaise that binds, the mechanism of liturgy that stays the hand of God and keeps the folks in perpetual childhood. I'm not even talking about people hooked on porn, I talking about pulpits hooked on power. Jesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans. That's what this is.

It must be cut away. It must be circumcised or you can forget about deliverance or any hope of recovering the dynamic of the first century ekklesia who 'turned the world upside down', and that without buildings, sound systems, clerics, Grecian pulpits, or bibles! Go figure!
 
Last edited:
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#2
Exodus 4:24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn,that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.

Moses is called to deliver Israel out of the hand of Pharaoh. He spent 40 years in Arabia in the wilderness herding sheep, God preparing him for this very thing.
God's people are about to be set free. But Moses still isn't quite ready. He is being disobedient to the Abrahamic covenant.
He hadn't circumcised his son. Probably because he listened to his wife Zipporah. She seemed to have an adversion toward it accusing Moses of being a bloody husband. She took a sharp stone and cut the flesh away and threw it at his feet.

In the spiritual sense today, there seems to be an adversion toward following Gods instructions for body life and fellowship.
Most, if not all, 'church' gatherings operate by the flesh for the flesh. There is little to no Spirit in the meetings at all anymore.
There was a time that God would visit our religious services occasionally and bless the folks in spite of the mechanics of the assembly being a thousand light years away from the NT paradigm.

If the saints would be honest and look at 1Cor.12 and 14 and Romans12 and Ephesians 4, for starters, they would be forced to scratch their heads in bewilderment over the oddity, the freak of what we label 'church' today.
Instead of threatening the ekklesia with physical death like what was apparent in the Moses account, God has withdrawn His life giving Spirit from our gatherings. He'll not be content with the arm of flesh in control with pre-packaged dry religious services manipulated by the hand of man any longer.
We cannot expect to deliver anyone let alone the whole body of Christ while flesh is still the agent and tool being used.

Moses was about to try to do the work of God, while openly disobeying God on the matter of circumcision.
The new covenant speaks of the circumcision of the heart being necessary at the re-birth. Why is it that we know this truth yet desire to continue now to do all things religious by the corrupt flesh? A mystery indeed.

Paul said we begin in the Spirit then wind up walking and doing by the flesh!

We'll deliver no one while we are not delivered ourselves.

Again the problem was so severe and debilitating in the Moses story that God was willing to kill Moses first before He would allow him to plow forward in his ministry while 'the cutting away of the flesh' had been ignored!

Thank God He is so longsuffering with us. However, I have seen men brought low and even visited by death who refused to let go of the exalted position of control, over folks. I've written about it on this site. See: which pastor.

Even King David, a man after God's own heart, met with disaster by halling the ark the wrong way, clearly disobeying Gods guidelines.

Many are sick and frail and poor because the 'church' is not discerning the 'body of Christ'. Flesh and mental ascent, and not knowing the 'still small voice' and His leading, and gifts and functions not allowed to manifest and operate within the gathering is doing untold damage to the believers.

Deliverance is taught ad nauseum yet deliverance is rarely attained. Flesh is the culprit that hinders, the malaise that binds, the mechanism of liturgy that stays the hand of God and keeps the folks in perpetual childhood. I'm not even talking about people hooked on porn, I talking about pulpits hooked on power. Jesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans. That's what this is.

It must be cut away. It must be circumcised or you can forget about deliverance or any hope of recovering the dynamic of the first century ekklesia who 'turned the world upside down', and that without buildings, sound systems, clerics, Grecian pulpits, or bibles! Go figure!
So, basically , you don't want to go to church?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#3
Your wrong, I have been to many churches and I have seen the spirit of God in many of these people. If you believe this then when you go to church that is all you will ever see, but if your heart is open and is willing you can see what is really there behind the veil that you see through right now.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#4
Please forgive my misspellings. When I'm in a hurry, there tends to be a flurry of such. Keeps me humble it do! Gotago!
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#5
Purists have a tendency to end up on their own island.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#6
Your wrong, I have been to many churches and I have seen the spirit of God in many of these people. If you believe this then when you go to church that is all you will ever see, but if your heart is open and is willing you can see what is really there behind the veil that you see through right now.
I think you nailed it..... no matter what is presented to him, "Yet" will likely always see the most negative thing possible.

All because he is jealous of preachers.
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#7
So, basically , you don't want to go to church?
That's what you walk away with from that post?

Church today is not even Biblical. Its a spin off of Roman Catholic practice supposedly based on Peter the Apostle.
Its a pageant. A display.

If you can gather with people for 'fellowship' in a parking lot and you at least pray, study God's word and worship, you have attended 'church.' God was present because 'two or more have gathered in His name.'

Jesus said to the woman who prepared all day to receive Him only to turn Him away three times, "as you have done to the least of these, so have you done unto Me."

Does your 'church' need a new pulpit, greener grass, fancy lighting, air conditioning, etc, or does someone in your community need food? Shelter? Warm clothing? Fellowship? A kind word? A smile?
I don't recall Jesus ordering my tithes to be given to a building fund. Or a potluck for the congregation. Or a trip for the youth group. Jesus comes to us in many forms. And the Bible shows how often we turn Him away.

Rethink 'church' and I think you'll understand the OPer point.

God's children are His Church. We are His temple. We need no steeple to show us where Jesus lives, for My Jesus lives in me.
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#8
Your wrong, I have been to many churches and I have seen the spirit of God in many of these people. If you believe this then when you go to church that is all you will ever see, but if your heart is open and is willing you can see what is really there behind the veil that you see through right now.
And I've been to many where the Spirit couldn't possiby reside...

If 'the modern Church' were based on Scripture shouldn't it be at least somewhat similar to Biblical examples of 'Church?'
Which, coincidentally, didn't happen in a building called The Church with a teacher called Preacher/Pastor/Priest.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,446
13,377
113
#9
so.. if you found some water that was muddy,

would you swear off drinking anything at all forever? then you will soon die of thirst!

if it's possible to drink out of your hand, will you curse every glass and cup?

i think we all might be surprised where the Spirit could "
possibly reside" -- it turns out something good can come out of Nazereth after all. one thing is sure though, if we "forsake the assembling together of ourselves" we're never going to find out.

so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

kind of tough to '
exhort one another in love' if we won't come within 15 miles of each other, isn't it?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#10
And I've been to many where the Spirit couldn't possiby reside...

If 'the modern Church' were based on Scripture shouldn't it be at least somewhat similar to Biblical examples of 'Church?'
Which, coincidentally, didn't happen in a building called The Church with a teacher called Preacher/Pastor/Priest.
perhaps you are looking through the wrong eyes then. when you say a biblical example of the church what exactly do you mean? because my view of a biblical church could vary from yours or someone elses or the next person or the person after that. It's the same with the bible, every person reads it believing the message they got from it was from the holy spirit yet there are hundreds of denominations at least ten different interpretations and views and beliefs for a single random scripture alone and as you can see here everyone has their own beliefs and views that make each other argue.

When I go to a church I go there with a bright heart and open one I don't allow my thinking of what a church should be like to affect what I see in that church. When I go in there I am only looking for one thing that will decide what I think of that church- I am looking for the heart of God. Believe it or not I find it more than not, no church is ever perfect or ever fully has his heart but neither do we. If I go to a church and i can sense and see that fire that burns in fathers heart even if that isn't the church for me I was blessed to have gone there.

I am naive I will not deny this I have a child like mind and nature and heart so perhaps this is why I am much more open to god and his voice why I can see what others who have closed their minds and hearts can't. at the same time I have discernment and can show maturity, but those like you and yet have closed your minds and hearts and only see what you want to see
 
S

sydlit

Guest
#11
In church last nite, sat by myself, feeling very empty, down. 200 ppl there prayingfor many concerns. No one noticed until all was over. One person asked if he could pray for me. I shrugged, he didnt. Finally, one person came up and just started praying for me. With tears. I cried, too, still unable to explain whats going on inside. Feel like I need an exorcism. No one takes me seriously. But at least this one brother stepped in with genuine, Holy Spirit care. HE should be a pastor! (an asst. Pstr. came up and basically said God promised to never leave me, do I believe this? I said maybe now I dont, idont know. I think he got a bit upset.) I know God is worthy of my praise and prayer, but I struggle in company of other believers. Feeling very alone, depressed, trying to fight thru,, I guess feeling this way is sin, I should be rejoicing in God my Savior, and todays my birthday. Whats wrong with me? JESUS, please help me. I want to ...I DO believe in you. Please forgive me. I need to KNOW you are here, inside, by YOUR presence, more than my fragile clingingbyfingertipwannahavefaith phony, weak faith. I know you died for my sins, rose from the grave, and are coming again. Why this feeling that youre comingAFTER me, not FOR me. What am I doing wrong. Or am I a hopeless case?
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#12
I'm very glad that some of you have a wonderful church. But it would appear that at least two don't. And I'd probably be correct in guessing that it wasn't just ONE church thats mentioned, but several. Enough actually to make it "appear" as though church was less than helpful in their journey. Mine included.
Is it so difficult to fathom a church that doesn't look after its congregation's spiritual needs? Well, we have a hard time seeing one that does.
You're right. Its perspective. Doesn't make one wrong or less right.
You guys tend to get very defensive here.
If your church is so special, extend an invitation.
"You're wrong!" As a reply Is just immature.
And if my glasses are a little less than rose colored, pardon me my skepticism.
I grew up in church. Doesn't make me an authority, but it absolutely gives me a right to say "church has become less than it was meant to be, far less."
Its a matter of opinion. Which the OP is entitled to have.
If I'd had a wonderful church I'd be happy to explain why i think Church is wonderful. I don't think I'd jump in with you're using the wrong eyes or you're wrong or one mud puddle doesn't make all water muddy. OP didn't say all churches.. So why be extreme?
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#13
In church last nite, sat by myself, feeling very empty, down. 200 ppl there prayingfor many concerns. No one noticed until all was over. One person asked if he could pray for me. I shrugged, he didnt. Finally, one person came up and just started praying for me. With tears. I cried, too, still unable to explain whats going on inside. Feel like I need an exorcism. No one takes me seriously. But at least this one brother stepped in with genuine, Holy Spirit care. HE should be a pastor! (an asst. Pstr. came up and basically said God promised to never leave me, do I believe this? I said maybe now I dont, idont know. I think he got a bit upset.) I know God is worthy of my praise and prayer, but I struggle in company of other believers. Feeling very alone, depressed, trying to fight thru,, I guess feeling this way is sin, I should be rejoicing in God my Savior, and todays my birthday. Whats wrong with me? JESUS, please help me. I want to ...I DO believe in you. Please forgive me. I need to KNOW you are here, inside, by YOUR presence, more than my fragile clingingbyfingertipwannahavefaith phony, weak faith. I know you died for my sins, rose from the grave, and are coming again. Why this feeling that youre comingAFTER me, not FOR me. What am I doing wrong. Or am I a hopeless case?
It won't always feel like it but God absolutely won't leave you, so keep seeking him out. When He seems silent, keep talking to Him.
I read "The Carpenter and the Unbuilder" at a particularly difficult time in my life and it brought some comfort and encouragement. Hope it is a blessing to you too :)
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#14
perhaps you are looking through the wrong eyes then. when you say a biblical example of the church what exactly do you mean? because my view of a biblical church could vary from yours or someone elses or the next person or the person after that. It's the same with the bible, every person reads it believing the message they got from it was from the holy spirit yet there are hundreds of denominations at least ten different interpretations and views and beliefs for a single random scripture alone and as you can see here everyone has their own beliefs and views that make each other argue.

When I go to a church I go there with a bright heart and open one I don't allow my thinking of what a church should be like to affect what I see in that church. When I go in there I am only looking for one thing that will decide what I think of that church- I am looking for the heart of God. Believe it or not I find it more than not, no church is ever perfect or ever fully has his heart but neither do we. If I go to a church and i can sense and see that fire that burns in fathers heart even if that isn't the church for me I was blessed to have gone there.

I am naive I will not deny this I have a child like mind and nature and heart so perhaps this is why I am much more open to god and his voice why I can see what others who have closed their minds and hearts can't. at the same time I have discernment and can show maturity, but those like you and yet have closed your minds and hearts and only see what you want to see
You talk about all these views making people argue.. Know what makes people argue? Posts like yours that basically say.. see and do like me or you're in the wrong. That isn't maturity. Thats you playing judge.

Show some real discernment and try to comprehend that not ALL churches operate in the holy spirit. Lucky for you your church is awesome and fulfills you. Glad that your pastor preaches and teaches from the Word and doesn't spit fire and brimstone while screwing his secretary.
Ridiculous to think all churches are blessed.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
113
39
Australia
#15
I'm very glad that some of you have a wonderful church. But it would appear that at least two don't. And I'd probably be correct in guessing that it wasn't just ONE church thats mentioned, but several. Enough actually to make it "appear" as though church was less than helpful in their journey. Mine included.
Is it so difficult to fathom a church that doesn't look after its congregation's spiritual needs? Well, we have a hard time seeing one that does.
You're right. Its perspective. Doesn't make one wrong or less right.
You guys tend to get very defensive here.
If your church is so special, extend an invitation.
"You're wrong!" As a reply Is just immature.
And if my glasses are a little less than rose colored, pardon me my skepticism.
I grew up in church. Doesn't make me an authority, but it absolutely gives me a right to say "church has become less than it was meant to be, far less."
Its a matter of opinion. Which the OP is entitled to have.
If I'd had a wonderful church I'd be happy to explain why i think Church is wonderful. I don't think I'd jump in with you're using the wrong eyes or you're wrong or one mud puddle doesn't make all water muddy. OP didn't say all churches.. So why be extreme?
Hey, i see your new here, welcome. Maybe some of us are a bit defensive because, Yet, constantly since the time he has been here on CC almost on a weekly basis, created multiple threads about how much the church is wrong. Constantly finding ways and reasons to complain according to his experiences which i dont even know they are true, some can sound so extreme at times. Expectations, higher than a skyscraper! And when you present a good news case to him, you get no reply back, you just get another thread about how abhorent the church is. Sure its not perfect, sure you can have an opinion, im all for that but over time you can tell where a persons mind is at, where their focus is. So i dont blame anyone for being over it and wanting to push back.
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#16
Understood. Thanks for explaining. I've been in the vicious cycles myself. I'll just pray.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
113
39
Australia
#17
Thats okay your welcome. What do you mean by vicious cycles?
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#18
Thats okay your welcome. What do you mean by vicious cycles?
I don't want to hijack his thread lol. But I mean basically that I've tried the same way many times with slight variances and it always ends the same. Different door, but same road. So always back where I started.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,956
113
#19
I've been in my new church for 6 months. I am already playing in a worship band, preaching, and I know many of the people. It helps that we all wear name tags. The elders go out of their way to make sure people feel welcome. Everyone talks to one another. We've already been invited to a small group. Coffee and refreshments are served before and after the service.

But we have also gone out of our way to attend the lunches, barbecues and picnics. We have spent the time getting to know others. It is not always about us. Maybe we are there to help others, instead of being needy and having others help us.

The pastor preaches the Bible and awesome doctrine. I prayed for months before we moved that God would lead us to a good, loving church and he did. I love my church, and I am so grateful to God for the body of believers that I fellowship with!
 
I

iConflicted

Guest
#20
I've been in my new church for 6 months. I am already playing in a worship band, preaching, and I know many of the people. It helps that we all wear name tags. The elders go out of their way to make sure people feel welcome. Everyone talks to one another. We've already been invited to a small group. Coffee and refreshments are served before and after the service.

But we have also gone out of our way to attend the lunches, barbecues and picnics. We have spent the time getting to know others. It is not always about us. Maybe we are there to help others, instead of being needy and having others help us.

The pastor preaches the Bible and awesome doctrine. I prayed for months before we moved that God would lead us to a good, loving church and he did. I love my church, and I am so grateful to God for the body of believers that I fellowship with!
That's great! :)