3 Miseries of Legalism

[SeaBass]

Yet he can try to be righteous all he wants, yet he will still fall short of the glory of God (miss the mark, Sin, etc etc)

So he still would not be of God.

The verse says nothing about TRYING to be righteous but clearly says as long as one continues to NOT DO righteousness he continues to NOT be of God.

 

[SeaBass]

Well I never heard this excuse before. Can you show me where someone ever used this excuse? Because that is not what it is saying at all.

and can you show me what it is actually saying (this is the second time I have asked. again you went and did something other than what was asked. Does it not bother you when people do this to you? so why do you do it to others?

You never heard the "not really saved" excuse before?????????

 

[notuptome]

You never heard the "not really saved" excuse before?????????

The tares are separated from the wheat at harvest and not before. It is not given to us to separate them but to the angels of God.

We mark them who teach a false gospel and we do not participate in their folly.

Those who are saved know it because the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the Lords. Those without the witness within themselves are not in the body but strangers and enemies of the faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Is]

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to re-new them again unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

Wouldn't this be proof if we're not doing Gods's will we are not saved?

The falling away here mentioned, is an open and avowed renouncing of Christ, from enmity of heart against him, his cause, and people, by men approving in their minds the deeds of his murderers, and all this after they have received the knowledge of the truth, and tasted some of its comforts. Of these it is said, that it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance. Not because the blood of Christ is not sufficient to obtain pardon for this sin; but this sin, in its very nature, is opposite to repentance and every thing that leads to it.
Matthew Henry commentary

I provided the a quote from the post you are replying to and it says they had been made partakers of the Holy Ghost.

Unbelieving people don't recieve the Holy Ghost. You say

The falling away here mentioned, is open and avowed renouncing of Christ

Isn't that the point, they had "tasted the heavenly gift" of grace through Jesus Christ and then renounced it by falling away from the truth?

"For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. But certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." Hebrews 10:26,27

verse 29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The falling away here mentioned, is open and avowed renouncing of Christ

I would think this qualifies as the renouncing of Christ, to trod underfoot the Son of God and the blood of the covenant and the Spirit of Grace.

Respectfully

 

[seed_time_harvest]

IE
If I were walking down the street and I passed by a grown-up arguing with a child I would think that child doesn't have enough experience to know what's right or wrong they are probably arguing to let the grown-up know that you are not going to tell me what to do but the grown-up is matured because of the experiences they been through but if I were on my way back and I saw the grown-up and the child still arguing then I would think that something is wrong with the grown-up.

What I am saying is you are not going to change SeaBass's mind.
I'll leave it there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You never heard the "not really saved" excuse before?????????

lol.. So your saying you can not tell me what that passage actually means.

as for as your question. you answer mine first. I am sick of answering yours when yuo NEVER ANSWER ANYONE ELSES.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The verse says nothing about TRYING to be righteous but clearly says as long as one continues to NOT DO righteousness he continues to NOT be of God.

It says clearly. One who continues in sin has never been saved.

End of story. game over, why bother, you keep ignoring what the passage says rolls eyes. etc etc.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The OP:

But because we are recovering legalists, we still wrestle with returning to our good deeds to alleviate our guilty consciences, earn God’s favor, or distinguish ourselves from other people. Because of this, the apostle Paul reminds us of the misery and futility of legalism. “Christ has liberated us to be free. Stand firm then and don’t submit again to a yoke of slavery” (Galatians 5:1).

With legalism:

Your joy is never full

If we seek God’s approval in our own works, our joy is never full. We are burdened down with a yoke of slavery. Christ is of no benefit to those who seek salvation in themselves (Galatians 5:2), which means joy always alludes the legalist as joy is found only in Him. As C.S. Lewis stated, “God cannot give us a happiness and peace apart from Himself, because it is not there. There is no such thing.”

Your work is never finished

Legalism is exhausting because there is always something else to do. As believers in the Galatian churches considered circumcision to attempt to earn God’s favor, Paul declared that “every man who gets himself circumcised…is obligated to keep the entire law.” In other words, if you want to stand on your own works, you have to be able to keep all of the law, which none of us can. If you want to achieve, the work never ends. The work is never over. Thankfully, grace is received, not achieved. And the work is over as Jesus yelled out, “It is finished.”

Your standing is never secure

Legalism leaves people wondering if they are ever secure, if their works are ever enough. They are not. If our works could be sufficient, then Christ died for nothing (Galatians 2:21). So Christ is alienated from those who seek to justify themselves by their own works (Galatians 5:4). But for those of us who trust Christ and His finished work on the cross, our standing is secure, not because of us but because of Him. Those who realize and confess their weakness and need for grace are secure. Those who think they are strong in themselves are never secure.




The OP has explaining to do:

Thats a cop out dude. He opened thr thread, and made three points.

Either show how his THREE POINTS are in error.

or MOVE ON THREAD

for you have hijacked this thread.

 

[sparkman]

One doesn't need to refer to Judas' sin to prove he was never saved. Scripture clearly states he wasn't.

John 6: [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)

He never had true faith to begin with.

It is an "excuse" offered by some proponents of eternal security that if a Christian sins then that is proof he was never really saved, ex Judas sinned proves he was never really saved, Simon (Acts 8) sinned proving he was never really saved.

Therefore if Judas' and Simon's sinning supposedly proves they were never really saved then ANYONE's sinning prove they were never really saved...true for one true for all.

 

[sparkman]

So, what's your theology? Are you a sinless perfectionist? A Pelagian or Finneyist?

What type of church do you attend? Why do you associate with sinners on here if you are so pure and holy? Perhaps our wickedness might rub off on you?

The requirement has been given to men to do righteous works, God does not randomly pick and choose among men which ones to "give desire and ability" to do righteous woks and which ones to withhold "desire and ability" to do righteous works..that idea put moral culpability upon God.


The Phil 2 context does not say the Philippians were saved by "working not" but that they had "always obeyed". God is working in those that obey Him and no in those that do not obey Him.

Obeying Gods will is not legalism..obeying Gods will is what the bible calls R-I-G-H-T-E-O-U-S.
Legalism is a word that gets thrown around a lot getting abused, misused, misunderstood by many of those that are throwing it around.

 

[sparkman]

Do you sin? If so, by your own words your sinning proves you were never saved.

Sinless perfectionist..why don't you go find a sinless perfectionist forum to chat on?

I have a word for sinless perfectionists..well I have two actually..take your pick...LIAR or DECEIVED.

I have talked to many of you guys. Most of them don't even fellowship with other believers. They are too perfect to fellowship with "sinners".

I find some have mental disease so that might be a factor...

Put your trust in Jesus.



Luke 18:9-14 [SUP]9 [/SUP]He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[SUP][a][/SUP] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[sparkman]

2 Peter 3:14- So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

Mathew 5:29- If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

I guess Jesus and Peter was a "legalists" too......

Legalists would have more credibility if they didn't engage in lying while proclaiming their righteousness.

 

[sparkman]

I shouldn't ask such ridiculous questions..if he went to a sinless perfectionist forum, he wouldn't have anyone to accuse of being less righteous than him. That would defeat the purpose of his chatting

Sinless perfectionist..why don't you go find a sinless perfectionist forum to chat on?

I have a word for sinless perfectionists..well I have two actually..take your pick...LIAR or DECEIVED.

I have talked to many of you guys. Most of them don't even fellowship with other believers. They are too perfect to fellowship with "sinners".

I find some have mental disease so that might be a factor...

Put your trust in Jesus.



Luke 18:9-14 [SUP]9 [/SUP]He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: [SUP]10 [/SUP]“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed[SUP][a][/SUP] thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ [SUP]14 [/SUP]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Utah]

2 Peter 3:14- So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

Mathew 5:29- If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

I guess Jesus and Peter was a "legalists" too......

I guess you're walking around with one arm and one eye.

 

[Jason0047]

Really? Granted I keep most legalists on ignore so I have no idea what the two legalists said before MW wrote something, but you're going to pick on MW first? Really really?

Hey, MW is coming from his background, and I got to say, he's not wrong there. In the Catholic Church the legalists do tend to think they're exempted from going to church. He's really right there. The only reason he's not right completely is because he simply doesn't know how legalism raises its blasted head apart from his denomination.

So, yo. Give him a break. Do you know what legalism looks like in the Presbyterian Church? The Methodist Church? The Baptists? AoG? Simply not understanding other denoms or nondenoms doesn't automatically make you wrong about your own denom. And, it doesn't make you an expert on his denom. Give the guy a break and do what you usually do -- fight the ones who are going to disagree, because they are the only sinless people worthy of disagreeing. Yeesh. You've got the heart. You have to aim better at who to use that heart on.

Being faithful is not reduced to attending a social club once every week. The Bible says do not forsake fellowship. That does not mean you just go to any ole church, raise your hands, listen to a nice warm fuzzy feeling sermon, and say hello to people and then leave. Fellowship is finding like minded people who are truly passionate about the things of God not just for two hours on Sundays but every day. For being around other true believers has got to promote you to be more Christ like and loving. For the body is stronger when they are together. But we are also living in the last days, too. For perilous times shall come, men shall be lovers of their own selves and they will have a form of Godliness, but they deny the power thereof. So we cannot assume that the body of believers is exactly the same like it was back in the day. I believe that any people or group who are being truly persecuted for Christ today is the real church. Most make fellowship into some kind of entertainment event to draw in more people after themselves and to pay the bills on a building. They are not really interested in helping people to give it all up so as to follow Jesus. They are not really interested in helping people feed the poor hands on or to hand out tracts and or to tell people about Jesus. It's just a place where everyone gets together and those who are lucky to be in that building will get to maybe know about God. Turning from sin? Most churches also do not really teach that. Oh, they might say the do, but if they do not teach that one can stop sinning, then they are still trying to make excuses to keep sin in their lives. For you have to remember that Jesus had a problem with most of the churches in Revelation 2-3. Very few were actually doing it right. For narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few be there that find it. The wide gate path will tickle people's ears and tell them what they want to hear.

 

[sparkman]

SAINTS WHO SINNED
Scripture is very clear about the shortcomings of believers. Here are some examples of believers who sinned:
· Abraham lied and showed a lack of faith when he said Sarai was his sister rather than wife (Genesis 12)
· Noah got drunk after the Flood (Genesis 9)
· David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed (2 Samuel 11)
· Samson had sex with a prostitute (Judges 16:1)
· Peter denied Christ three times, and committed the sin of favoritism (Matt 26, Gal 2:11-13)
· The Corinthian man was involved in sexual activity with his stepmother (I Corinthians 5)
· The Corinthian congregation committed sin in ignoring the activity between the man and his wife (I Corinthians 5)
The fact that saints committed sin doesn’t justify our sins, but simply point to the fact that we are all human and stray from God at times and sin.

 

[mwc68]

spoken like a true catholic and legalist.

Legalism is a person who goes to church to be saved, and Not because He is saved, and wants to spend as much time as he can with Gods familiy.

Of course, to a legalist, you can not understand this concept, your religion has blinded you to this truth.

I think you have me confused. I am saved and very much enjoy spending time at church with our Lord in prayer, in the Eucharist, the teaching and the fellowship. I don't feel any guilt or question of my salvation forcing me to go. You said a saved person wants to spend time with God's family, right? I lead the choir, dude! I want to be there! The best thing is I can attend church every single day and make as many weekday services as I can. I have even on occasion played acoustic guitar at these services although there is usually no music. To insinuate I'm a legalist that doesn't want to be there, that doesn't fly

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree with the OP for sure.....! Those who have entered into his rest have ceased from their own labor!

 

[Gr8grace]

I agree with the OP for sure.....! Those who have entered into his rest have ceased from their own labor!

And the ones who have not found their rest........................Don't want us to be in that rest!

 

[Samsaviel]

I guess you're walking around with one arm and one eye.

Aye matey.