Creation, The Flood, And Millions Of Years

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Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#21
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#21
We should take it as God actually said it.
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Okay - let's.


"And there was evening and there was morning, one day." (Genesis 1:5)

"And there was evening and there was morning, a second day." (Genesis 1:8)

"And there was evening and there was morning, a third day." (Genesis 1:13)

"And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day." (Genesis 1:19)

"And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day." (Genesis 1:23)

"And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day" (Genesis 1:31)

God made clear that He was not talking bout earthly days
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Really - where?

Reading Genesis, even a child can understand God is talking about literal days.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#22
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#22
Viligant_Warrior said:
Then why did He use very specific, literal language to describe it?
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But He didn't. He used a yom which signifies a period of time.

A day is a day is a day.
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well GOD DEFINED A 'DAY'. He defined it as a ' period of light'. So why don't you believe Him? Why in the same context do you try to turn it into the modern concept of a 24 hour day? You should believe God's word.

'God called the light 'DAY', and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning one 'DAY' (period of light). To be consistent you cannot give TWO meanings to DAY in one sentence!! The world was created within seven periods of light., however long they were

He "created" by speaking: "Let there be ... and it was so." There's no mystery here, there's no hyperbole. The literal language of Genesis 1 says everything that is was spoken into existence in a literal six days.
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I will agree that creation took place by God speaking, and by Him fashioning what He had created. But Genesis 1 says NOTHING about what YOU mean by literal days as I have just shown you. But your mind is frozen in self-belief.


Actually, your interpretation would be the incorrect one. The language forbids any understanding but a literal one. You don't want to believeHe did it in six days, and the real question then becomes, "Why?"
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Why? Because I believe the clear Hebrew text and don't try to tie God down

Everything you said in this post is to counter Bud's clear delineation of God's word. Why is it so hard, as Bud has said from the outset, for "old Earthers" to accept that God has the power to simply speak to create? And why would He do anything less than that?
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I am neither an old earther or a young earther. I see both as incompatible with God's word. I see God as doing things in His own time. I believe He had REAL power and did as HE pleased.
 
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Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#23
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#23
jaybird88 said:
it also says a day to the Lord would be like a thousand to man.

and on and on and on. . . .

will this discussion be any different than all the rest?
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The point I was trying to make is that if God indeed created through evolutionary processes, involving millions of years, He could have easily said so in Scripture without resorting to allegorical stories.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#24
#24
EdisonTrent said:
Of coarse not never would I called Father a liar, answer me this the falling angel cast to earth on which day was this?
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We don't know what day specifically. What we do know is that it happened sometime between the end of Creation Week and the Fall of Man.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#25
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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#25
I am neither an old earther or a young earther. I see both as incompatible with God's word.
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That makes absolutely no sense at all.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#26
#26
jaybird88 said:
it also says a day to the Lord would be like a thousand to man.

and on and on and on. . . .

will this discussion be any different than all the rest?
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Yes, Jay. But context proves that verse isn't about creation at all, but about the experience of being in God's holy presence. Even if it alluded to creation (which it doesn't), the word 'like', as in 'a day to the LORD is "like" a thousand years to man', suggests something very different to 'a day to the LORD is equal to a thousand years to man' or whatever. Besides, the Bible is written in the language of humankind. If it weren't, and we struggled to understand the concept of 'day' at the very beginning of the Bible, given the context we're given, God would've failed to communicate clearly with us. And God isn't the author of confusion. There is absolutely nothing in the text, when read from a grammatical-historical perspective, to suggest long-ages in the millions, even billions of years.
 
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EdisonTrent

Guest
#27
#27
Is Peter lying to us ???

Peter 3:8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#28
#28
EdisonTrent said:
Is Peter lying to us ???

Peter 3:8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day
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Are 'like', are 'like', are 'like'! Why do so many Christians struggle with basic English and reading the Bible in context?
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#29
#29
Tintin said:
Yes, Jay. But context proves that verse isn't about creation at all, but about the experience of being in God's holy presence. Even if it alluded to creation (which it doesn't), the word 'like', as in 'a day to the LORD is "like" a thousand years to man', suggests something very different to 'a day to the LORD is equal to a thousand years to man' or whatever. Besides, the Bible is written in the language of humankind. If it weren't, and we struggled to understand the concept of 'day' at the very beginning of the Bible, given the context we're given, God would've failed to communicate clearly with us. And God isn't the author of confusion. There is absolutely nothing in the text, when read from a grammatical-historical perspective, to suggest long-ages in the millions, even billions of years.
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i think our Lord is fully capable of making our world in as many days he wants, He could do it in one day if He chose.
I really dont spent much time on this one. the age of our world seems irrelevant to me. the age of mankind is more interesting to me.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#30
#30
Budman said:
What has always irked me about old earth creationists is their belief that God didn't mean exactly what He said. That God, in fact, misled us via the creation story in Genesis.

God revealed to us that He created the world and everything in it in six literal days. That He created a man and a woman immediately, and not through a process involving millions of years. He told us plainly that He flooded the entire world, killing everything but Noah, his family, the animals in the Ark, and the water dwelling creatures.

These stories were not metaphors, themes, or fables.

The hard truth is, old earth creationists trust the opinions of man over the word of God. They try to cram evolution and millions of years into the Bible instead of letting the Bible speak for itself.

Using Adam and Eve as an example, if God truly created them through an evolutionary process, He could have easily described it in His word plainly enough for us to understand.

He could have inspired to be written:

"In the beginning God decided to create man. From the earth, God nurtured man's life from humble beginnings, and over a great span of time, developed and molded man, as a potter molds the clay, until such a time when the Lord decided man was well equipped to possess a soul. God then gave man a living spirit, and henceforth, called him Adam."

See how easy that is? The same sort of things could be said for the creation of the universe.

So why didn't God say that?

Because God is not a liar. What is written in Genesis is historical fact. If what is described in Genesis didn't truly happen as written, we have no reason to believe anything else in the Bible is historically true.
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I believe in an old Earth.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..........in an instant,snap of the finger,spoke it. Done complete and perfect. No story, no account.......just instantly perfect and complete. It was the angels domain. satan fell and God froze the earth by taking away all light........the earth BECAME formless and void.

After an undetermined amount of time God brought light back to the earth and restored in 6 literal days. No evolution. He restored it for the existence of man.....to be His witness to satan(Who wants to be like the most high) that God is Just and full of Grace and mercy. This is why we see satan in the garden of eden.

We are here to resolve the kingdom conflict.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#31
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#31
EdisonTrent said:
Is Peter lying to us ???

Peter 3:8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day
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Nay Peter lies not, the Lord is not slack concerning his promises. Therefore then the Lord does not lie when he said he made creation is 6 days and rested the 7th, nor is Moses a liar when he says that God made the heaven and the earth and all that is in them in 6 days and rested the 7th.

You should also read the beginning of that chapter.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#32
#32
Gr8grace said:
I believe in an old Earth.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..........in an instant,snap of the finger,spoke it. Done complete and perfect. No story, no account.......just instantly perfect and complete. It was the angels domain. satan fell and God froze the earth by taking away all light........the earth BECAME formless and void.

After an undetermined amount of time God brought light back to the earth and restored in 6 literal days. No evolution. He restored it for the existence of man.....to be His witness to satan(Who wants to be like the most high) that God is Just and full of Grace and mercy. This is why we see satan in the garden of eden.

We are here to resolve the kingdom conflict.
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My Bible has none of the Gap fiction you just shared. Might want to read what the Bible actually says, instead of what Schofield or some other guys believes the Bible says. If the Bible meant to include long-ages, the appropriate language would've been used, but it wasn't.
 
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EdisonTrent

Guest
#34
#34
Tintin said:
Are 'like', are 'like', are 'like'! Why do so many Christians struggle with basic English and reading the Bible in context?
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It is interesting for sure for a thousand years = 365,000 days
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#35
#35
Tintin said:
My Bible has none of the Gap fiction you just shared. Might want to read what the Bible actually says, instead of what Schofield or some other guys believes the Bible says. If the Bible meant to include long-ages, the appropriate language would've been used, but it wasn't.
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And my perspective, its the GAP fact. And I understand your perspective. And I thank you for it.

Lets try to change the tone though ok? I know you study and have read the bible. And so have I, I got my perspective from studying it.

We get nothing from each other if we say , " might want to read what the bible actually says instead of listening to so and so.".............I will close your ears if I start doing that to you.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#36
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
13,519
113
#36
EdisonTrent said:
Is Peter lying to us ???

Peter 3:8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day
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no, of course not! Peter is quoting the Psalms --
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.
(Psalm 90:4) ​

the fact that two different measures are given here should make it obvious that this isn't meant to be a used as a unit conversion rule.
1 divine day ≠ 1,000 years
1 divine day ≠ 3 hours (a watch in the night)
1 divine day ≠ 1 human day

it ought to teach us that the Father sees time differently than we do. which ought to give us pause when we try to understand how He created all that is and how He fashions history, and humble us when want to speak with authority as if we were there when He laid the foundations of the worlds.
He calls things "soon" that we would not call soon - it also ought to give us encouragement in our impatience. oh brothers, why do we have to argue over this triviality? all the earth is going to be dissolved, and we will be with Him in a state of eternity, outside of time itself. all this will "soon" be moot -- whether the time period written in Genesis is measured the way humans measure time "now" or whether it is simplifying a fantastic mystery for the sake of our limited understanding and knowledge, the net result is that God is the creator, creation is His, and we are His too - the One whose ways are beyond mortal comprehension!
that He stoops to explain any of this to us at all, in any capacity, is His mercy toward us.
 
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EdisonTrent

Guest
#37
#37
GodIsSalvation said:
Nay Peter lies not, the Lord is not slack concerning his promises. Therefore then the Lord does not lie when he said he made creation is 6 days and rested the 7th, nor is Moses a liar when he says that God made the heaven and the earth and all that is in them in 6 days and rested the 7th.

You should also read the beginning of that chapter.
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Indeed if Moses says God creation in 6 days then surely Peter is teaching us by saying a day is like a thousand years.
 
G

GodIsSalvation

Banned
#38
Dec 18, 2013
6,733
45
0
#38
The definition of a day in Genesis is no mystery, as has all ready been said in this topic, within Genesis itself it defines a day as the evening and the morning, one day.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#39
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
13,519
113
#39
EdisonTrent said:
Indeed if Moses says God creation in 6 days then surely Peter is teaching us by saying a day is like a thousand years.
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actually, Peter is quoting Psalm 90 -- which Moses wrote.

so this is the same Moses who wrote "days" in Genesis who also wrote - to teach us - that a thousand years is like a day or a couple of hours to God.

((something to chew on))
 
E

EdisonTrent

Guest
#40
#40
posthuman said:
no, of course not! Peter is quoting the Psalms --
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.
(Psalm 90:4) ​

the fact that two different measures are given here should make it obvious that this isn't meant to be a used as a unit conversion rule.
1 divine day ≠ 1,000 years
1 divine day ≠ 3 hours (a watch in the night)
1 divine day ≠ 1 human day

it ought to teach us that the Father sees time differently than we do. which ought to give us pause when we try to understand how He created all that is and how He fashions history, and humble us when want to speak with authority as if we were there when He laid the foundations of the worlds.
He calls things "soon" that we would not call soon - it also ought to give us encouragement in our impatience. oh brothers, why do we have to argue over this triviality? all the earth is going to be dissolved, and we will be with Him in a state of eternity, outside of time itself. all this will "soon" be moot -- whether the time period written in Genesis is measured the way humans measure time "now" or whether it is simplifying a fantastic mystery for the sake of our limited understanding and knowledge, the net result is that God is the creator, creation is His, and we are His too - the One whose ways are beyond mortal comprehension!
that He stoops to explain any of this to us at all, in any capacity, is His mercy toward us.
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i agree because no matter how we look at things we just end up scratching the head because we can always find another meaning in scripture that's has a opposite meaning like morning and evening its facanating for sure.
 
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