Forbidden to look at Big 10?
- Thread starter Willie-T
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The OP makes no sense in relation to this quote of Jesus.
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" John 5:46-47
The Ten Commandments were also written by Moses. This is recorded in Exodus 24:4
All the words of God recorded in Exodus 20 thru 23 were written down after God had spoken. How in the world could a person obey God's commandments that aren't supposed to be seen? And by this falsehood we should see God's grace?
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" John 5:46-47
The Ten Commandments were also written by Moses. This is recorded in Exodus 24:4
All the words of God recorded in Exodus 20 thru 23 were written down after God had spoken. How in the world could a person obey God's commandments that aren't supposed to be seen? And by this falsehood we should see God's grace?
“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!" – Matthew 6:23-24
F
I understand God Wants our sin and rebellion exposed. So that we might run to Him as Grace.
I understood that those who looked into the ark were coming to God without redemption, or in the flesh.
Same with Uzziah, whose good intention was to help the ark
I know! Why didn't they post the 'beatitudes,' or Romans 7 or 8/John 3:16?
That is a good plaque.
I know lots of believers have Scriptures posted in their homes (and cars)
yes amen
Christians seeking freedom of worship was a big part.
And ultimately part of that foundation is separation of Church and State, separation of Religion and Government,
as a rule for government. Just like from the church's side in the NT: separation from government in administering the church.
Jn 18:36; 1 Cor 5:12; etc.
That was a blessing to both
I understood that those who looked into the ark were coming to God without redemption, or in the flesh.
Same with Uzziah, whose good intention was to help the ark
I know! Why didn't they post the 'beatitudes,' or Romans 7 or 8/John 3:16?
That is a good plaque.
I know lots of believers have Scriptures posted in their homes (and cars)
yes amen
Christians seeking freedom of worship was a big part.
And ultimately part of that foundation is separation of Church and State, separation of Religion and Government,
as a rule for government. Just like from the church's side in the NT: separation from government in administering the church.
Jn 18:36; 1 Cor 5:12; etc.
That was a blessing to both
Blain, the 10 commandments were written in stone, twice. Moses destroyed the first set when he came down the mountain and found the people worshipping the golden calf.
Do you not think that they could have written the 10 commandments on scrolls, before they were put in the Ark of the Covenant? Of course, they had to, or we would not have had a record of it today, since the Ark was not opened, and eventually it was lost.
We have a record of the 10 commandments in both Deut. 5 and Exodus 20. Therefore, they had to be written elsewhere. If you had read the verses I quoted, you would see that it was not only written, but read to the people.
It really makes no sense at all that the 10 commandments were hidden, if we have them today. They simply have to have been written down and handed down to us!
Do you not think that they could have written the 10 commandments on scrolls, before they were put in the Ark of the Covenant? Of course, they had to, or we would not have had a record of it today, since the Ark was not opened, and eventually it was lost.
We have a record of the 10 commandments in both Deut. 5 and Exodus 20. Therefore, they had to be written elsewhere. If you had read the verses I quoted, you would see that it was not only written, but read to the people.
It really makes no sense at all that the 10 commandments were hidden, if we have them today. They simply have to have been written down and handed down to us!
Gee, I kind of thought that verse 15 of that incident told that the Levites took charge of the ark right away when the cows stopped walking in that field. So, would they have let anyone but themselves look inside? Not likely. Then maybe it was the Levites of that town who did the looking?
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A
Well, I think enough has been posted to earn me the steak dinner my wife and I had wagered on this post. (She doesn't really know you guys too well, yet )
)
F
You might not know what 'Separation of Church and State' means.
There'd be no USA if there wasn't.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Likewise, it's converse is in the church's 'constitution' (the New Testament) also.
My kingdom is not of this world.
Do you seat as judges those who are of no account in the church?
There'd be no USA if there wasn't.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Likewise, it's converse is in the church's 'constitution' (the New Testament) also.
My kingdom is not of this world.
Do you seat as judges those who are of no account in the church?
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V
The law wasn’t our guardian, it was Israel’s until Christ came. Israel needed to be constantly supervised like rebellious children. Somehow the Gentiles were coerced into believing that the Jews were more spiritual and closer to God because of their flesh birthright. The Jews were saying they were the true children of Abraham and the Gentiles reasoned that it must be correct. So then the Gentiles put themselves under the bondage to the law, too.
When the stewards of God’s Word force their carnal understanding of spirituality on those who they deem less spiritual, these religious stewards should be seen as children who need a guardian rather than mature sons of God who no longer need to be supervised constantly. They’re like Israel under law and should not be seen as having any special authority. They act like immature children when they display their pompous attitudes.
They preach, “Love one another.” But their carnal mind tells them this is a difficult commandment to keep. They don’t see it as impossible. But unless we see it IS impossible for man to love as Christ does, we don’t understand what the disciples understood.
But if we read I John as God meant it, we can’t help but see and understand the Truth. It is the very love of God that comes to dwell within us and makes keeping His commandment something that is not difficult to keep. It is taking on the mind of Christ, as opposed to trying to understand it with our carnal, immature minds.
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.” 1 John 5:1-4
If you insist on taking the viewpoint that John’s words are difficult requirements, (or ANY commandment, for that matter) you will not see the miraculous reality declared by the Lord Jesus Christ and by John’s letter. The love of God is the very definition of those who are born of Him.
And remember, it was this miraculous love of God which Jesus exemplified while He was on this earth. Religious men were so angry and offended by that simple truth, that they crucified Jesus with the very law He came to deliver us from.
When the stewards of God’s Word force their carnal understanding of spirituality on those who they deem less spiritual, these religious stewards should be seen as children who need a guardian rather than mature sons of God who no longer need to be supervised constantly. They’re like Israel under law and should not be seen as having any special authority. They act like immature children when they display their pompous attitudes.
They preach, “Love one another.” But their carnal mind tells them this is a difficult commandment to keep. They don’t see it as impossible. But unless we see it IS impossible for man to love as Christ does, we don’t understand what the disciples understood.
But if we read I John as God meant it, we can’t help but see and understand the Truth. It is the very love of God that comes to dwell within us and makes keeping His commandment something that is not difficult to keep. It is taking on the mind of Christ, as opposed to trying to understand it with our carnal, immature minds.
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.” 1 John 5:1-4
If you insist on taking the viewpoint that John’s words are difficult requirements, (or ANY commandment, for that matter) you will not see the miraculous reality declared by the Lord Jesus Christ and by John’s letter. The love of God is the very definition of those who are born of Him.
And remember, it was this miraculous love of God which Jesus exemplified while He was on this earth. Religious men were so angry and offended by that simple truth, that they crucified Jesus with the very law He came to deliver us from.
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L
AMEN!!!! This is an awesome Post and thread!! Yes, I do think that believers should be exalting God's mercy above the law. Christians don't really consider the covenants changed after the resurrection of Jesus. The cross being the point of where the new covenant begins. Therefore many of us Christians do not rightly divide the Bible truths because we don't even consider the major change that took place.
"While Jesus is in the Old Testament concealed, He is in the New Testament revealed. The stronger your foundation in the new covenant, the more you will be able to see Jesus unveiled in the Old Testament."
A
Sure. Why not? It's not like Willie even meant anything out of this post but getting a steak dinner.
Right, Congress shall not. On the other hand, a Congressmen can sure legislate and can sure make known his religious beliefs. And we sure can vote according to our beliefs. There's a reason students can still pray and read the Bible in public (state and federally funded) schools, and no one can change that law. It's a one-way street. The government cannot force a religion, but we, the voters, can sure pick Congress according to our beliefs.
You're mixing us up with Russia, which does have a separation clause. That's the difference.
Right, Congress shall not. On the other hand, a Congressmen can sure legislate and can sure make known his religious beliefs. And we sure can vote according to our beliefs. There's a reason students can still pray and read the Bible in public (state and federally funded) schools, and no one can change that law. It's a one-way street. The government cannot force a religion, but we, the voters, can sure pick Congress according to our beliefs.
You're mixing us up with Russia, which does have a separation clause. That's the difference.
F
yes........your first two paragraphs are absolutely right. Faith, or religion, is protected by free speech and by freedom of religion.
In regard to your last 2 sentences, what exactly is that clause? (yes I can look it up to post if you can't find it.)
I realize some nonchristians and antichristians distort and stretch and pervert the meaning of 'separation of church and state'
to mean a kind of anti-religion ideology. But they err on their side, and it sounds like you take their definition some
In regard to your last 2 sentences, what exactly is that clause? (yes I can look it up to post if you can't find it.)
I realize some nonchristians and antichristians distort and stretch and pervert the meaning of 'separation of church and state'
to mean a kind of anti-religion ideology. But they err on their side, and it sounds like you take their definition some
L
Hey Willie-T I'm so glad you got a steak dinner from your wife out of this!!!
It's obvious you were once a teacher because you have more patience than most on these crazy forums. And your inventive ways of bringing out the truth of Scripture has the marks of a good teacher too!
Below is a list of the differences of the old and new covenants. Look familiar?? Just like you said, the law is also described as the ministry of death...
2 Cor.3:7-8-9 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,8- how shall the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9- For if the MINISTRY OF CONDEMNATION has glory, much more does the MINISTRY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS abound in glory.10- For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory on account of the glory that surpasses it.
The law is not permanent 3:14-15 Removed in Christ... 16. Whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIBERTY.
OLD-God demanded righteousness from man. NEW-God imparts righteousness to man through the finished work of Jesus. Rom.4:5-7 OLD-God will visit your sins to the 3rd 4th generations. Ex.20:5 NEW-God will by no means remember your sins. Heb. 8:12;10:17
OLD- The children of Israel were blessed only if they obeyed God's commandments perfectly inwardly and outwardly Duet.28:13-14 NEW-Beleivers don't have to depend on their self-efforts to receive God's blessings, because Jesus fullfilled every one of the requirements of the law on their behalf. Col. 2:14
OLD-
They were cursed of they did not obey God's commandments perfectly Duet.28:15-16,18,20
NEW- Believers can enjoy God's blessings and undeserved favor because Christ became a curse for them on the cross. Gal.3:13
OLD- Depending on self-effort produces behavior modification without heart transformation. NEW- Beholding the loveliness of Jesus and His finished work brings about inner transformation, which produces good works that are motivated by God's love. 2 Cor.3:18
OLD-The blood sacrifices of animals covered the sins of the children of Israel for only one year, and the process had to be repeated every year Heb.10:3
NEW- The blood of Jesus has removed the sins--past,present and future of believers completely and perfectly, once and for all. Heb.10:11-12
OLD-Obeying the law could not and did not give the children of Israel the power to stop sin in their lives. The law has no power to make anyone holy, just and good. NEW-Sin has no dominion over believers Rom.6:14 as the power of Jesus to overcome temptation kicks in when they are conscience that they are righteous in Christ apart from their works Rom. 4:6
OLD- The children of Israel were robbed of their confidence in the goodness of God because they were always looking at themselves to see how well or poorly they performed (i.e. self-conscience) NEW-Believers can have a tremendous sense of confidence and security in Christ because they are now looking to Jesus and not themselves (i.e. Christ-conscience)
OLD-The Children of Israel could not have an intimate relationship with God because their unrighteousness put distance between them and God. NEW-Beleivers can enjoy close,intimate relationship with God as their Father because they are made righteous by faith in Jesus.
2 Cor.5:17; Rom.5:7-9 Heb.10:10
OLD-The Children of Israel could not enter the holy of holies (where the presence of God was) Only the high priest could, ant that only once a year, on the Day of Atonement. Lev.16:2, 14 NEW-Not only can believers enter God's holy presence, they can also come boldly to His throne of grace in their time of need because Jesus perfect atonement. Heb.4:16
OLD-The children of Israel were under the ministry of death. 2 Cor. 3:17
NEW- Believers are under the ministry of Jesus' abundant life. 2 Cor.3:6; John 10:10
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Hey Willie-T I'm so glad you got a steak dinner from your wife out of this!!!
It's obvious you were once a teacher because you have more patience than most on these crazy forums. And your inventive ways of bringing out the truth of Scripture has the marks of a good teacher too!
Below is a list of the differences of the old and new covenants. Look familiar?? Just like you said, the law is also described as the ministry of death...
2 Cor.3:7-8-9 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,8- how shall the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9- For if the MINISTRY OF CONDEMNATION has glory, much more does the MINISTRY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS abound in glory.10- For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory on account of the glory that surpasses it.
The law is not permanent 3:14-15 Removed in Christ... 16. Whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is LIBERTY.
OLD-God demanded righteousness from man. NEW-God imparts righteousness to man through the finished work of Jesus. Rom.4:5-7 OLD-God will visit your sins to the 3rd 4th generations. Ex.20:5 NEW-God will by no means remember your sins. Heb. 8:12;10:17
OLD- The children of Israel were blessed only if they obeyed God's commandments perfectly inwardly and outwardly Duet.28:13-14 NEW-Beleivers don't have to depend on their self-efforts to receive God's blessings, because Jesus fullfilled every one of the requirements of the law on their behalf. Col. 2:14
OLD-
They were cursed of they did not obey God's commandments perfectly Duet.28:15-16,18,20
NEW- Believers can enjoy God's blessings and undeserved favor because Christ became a curse for them on the cross. Gal.3:13
OLD- Depending on self-effort produces behavior modification without heart transformation. NEW- Beholding the loveliness of Jesus and His finished work brings about inner transformation, which produces good works that are motivated by God's love. 2 Cor.3:18
OLD-The blood sacrifices of animals covered the sins of the children of Israel for only one year, and the process had to be repeated every year Heb.10:3
NEW- The blood of Jesus has removed the sins--past,present and future of believers completely and perfectly, once and for all. Heb.10:11-12
OLD-Obeying the law could not and did not give the children of Israel the power to stop sin in their lives. The law has no power to make anyone holy, just and good. NEW-Sin has no dominion over believers Rom.6:14 as the power of Jesus to overcome temptation kicks in when they are conscience that they are righteous in Christ apart from their works Rom. 4:6
OLD- The children of Israel were robbed of their confidence in the goodness of God because they were always looking at themselves to see how well or poorly they performed (i.e. self-conscience) NEW-Believers can have a tremendous sense of confidence and security in Christ because they are now looking to Jesus and not themselves (i.e. Christ-conscience)
OLD-The Children of Israel could not have an intimate relationship with God because their unrighteousness put distance between them and God. NEW-Beleivers can enjoy close,intimate relationship with God as their Father because they are made righteous by faith in Jesus.
2 Cor.5:17; Rom.5:7-9 Heb.10:10
OLD-The Children of Israel could not enter the holy of holies (where the presence of God was) Only the high priest could, ant that only once a year, on the Day of Atonement. Lev.16:2, 14 NEW-Not only can believers enter God's holy presence, they can also come boldly to His throne of grace in their time of need because Jesus perfect atonement. Heb.4:16
OLD-The children of Israel were under the ministry of death. 2 Cor. 3:17
NEW- Believers are under the ministry of Jesus' abundant life. 2 Cor.3:6; John 10:10
one question: if the op is correct, ( and its not) why did the Father choose to reveal His 10 commands to all who would read the bible? if was to be hidden out of sight, why would He reveal it? now these questions are valid if of course, you consider the bibvle to be the word of god, if not.... disregard