Catholic Heresy (for the record)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M

Mec99

Banned
#7,861
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
0
#7,861
That is the very point mwc68.

Baptism is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Confessing our sins is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Partaking in the Lord's Supper is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Being Married is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Anointing the sick is not a work and will not give you Faith!

We do Baptism because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!
We confess our sins because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!
We partake of the Lord's Supper because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!
We anoint the sick because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!

We do Works of Faith AFTER we receive Faith by Grace!
We do not do Works to receive Faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#7,862
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#7,862
mwc68 said:
Baptism is a work? Are you baptised? Confessing our sins is a work? You dont confess your sins? Partaking in the Lord's Supper is a work? Do you not take the Lords Supper? Ill give you marriage! Anybody knows that's work! LOL. Annointing the sick is a work? Your church doesn't do this?

So these are all works we should not do according to you?
Click to expand...
If you are doing these things to be saved you are wrong in your thinking. There is no salvitic benefit in any sacrament.

Baptism is for believers those who already have trusted Christ as their personal Savior. These have confessed their sins to Christ not to me or another man. The Lord's supper is a time of introspection and self evaluation before the Lord again for believers not as a means of salvation. Anointing the sick is for the physical body not for eternal salvation of the soul.

In short you do them but for all the wrong reasons so they are of no benefit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#7,863
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#7,863
Mec99 said:
That is the very point mwc68.

Baptism is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Confessing our sins is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Partaking in the Lord's Supper is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Being Married is not a work and will not give you Faith!
Anointing the sick is not a work and will not give you Faith!

We do Baptism because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!
We confess our sins because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!
We partake of the Lord's Supper because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!
We anoint the sick because we ALREADY have Faith by Grace!

We do Works of Faith AFTER we receive Faith by Grace!
We do not do Works to receive Faith!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Cool, neither do we!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#7,864
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#7,864
notuptome said:
If you are doing these things to be saved you are wrong in your thinking. There is no salvitic benefit in any sacrament.

Baptism is for believers those who already have trusted Christ as their personal Savior. These have confessed their sins to Christ not to me or another man. The Lord's supper is a time of introspection and self evaluation before the Lord again for believers not as a means of salvation. Anointing the sick is for the physical body not for eternal salvation of the soul.

In short you do them but for all the wrong reasons so they are of no benefit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
LOL, So we should do these things, right? Yet, Catholics do them for the wrong reason? OMG! ROFL
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#7,865
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#7,865
mwc68 said:
LOL, So we should do these things, right? Yet, Catholics do them for the wrong reason? OMG! ROFL
Click to expand...
you may laugh. but is that because you do no understand? There is a huge difference between salvation being conditional on those things, and salvation RESULTING in those things. In the former case it is supposed grace (a kind of influence) and works in a failing mixture, in the latter case it is true grace God Himself acting in undeserved love and favour) alone
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#7,866
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#7,866
valiant said:
you may laugh. but is that because you do no understand? There is a huge difference between salvation being conditional on those things, and salvation RESULTING in those things. In the former case it is supposed grace (a kind of influence) and works in a failing mixture, in the latter case it is true grace God Himself acting in undeserved love and favour) alone
Click to expand...
Ok, so we do these things as in the NT, as you do, yet you say we do it for the wrong reasons? Forgive me for laughing, but you seem to just want to down Catholics even though you do the same things, sacraments, that we do. It is funny watching yall sqirm on this one. I will admit, i didn't think yall were talking about the sacraments. Afterall you do the same thing
 
M

Mec99

Banned
#7,867
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
0
#7,867
But then how do you explain Infant Baptism?

We receive Baptism because we have received Faith by Grace, and we receive Salvation by Faith and Grace.

Infants do not have Faith. Faith comes from believing. Infants cannot think or reason nor understand anything. But yet you Catholics Baptize Infants.

Which proves you are putting Works before Faith. Its by Faith we believe that Jesus is God. Its by Faith and Grace we receive Salvation. And its by Faith and Salvation that we become Baptized.

So yes mwc68 the Catholics are doing just the opposite of what God says in the Scriptures.
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#7,868
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#7,868
Mec99 said:
But then how do you explain Infant Baptism?

We receive Baptism because we have received Faith by Grace, and we receive Salvation by Faith and Grace.

Infants do not have Faith. Faith comes from believing. Infants cannot think or reason nor understand anything. But yet you Catholics Baptize Infants.

Which proves you are putting Works before Faith. Its by Faith we believe that Jesus is God. Its by Faith and Grace we receive Salvation. And its by Faith and Salvation that we become Baptized.

So yes mwc68 the Catholics are doing just the opposite of what God says in the Scriptures.
Click to expand...
Please show me the scripture forbidding infant baptism and I will agree its God's word not to baptise infants. No one has shown me this elusive scripture yet.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#7,869
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#7,869
mwc68 said:
Ok, so we do these things as in the NT, as you do, yet you say we do it for the wrong reasons? Forgive me for laughing, but you seem to just want to down Catholics even though you do the same things, sacraments, that we do. It is funny watching yall sqirm on this one. I will admit, i didn't think yall were talking about the sacraments. Afterall you do the same thing
Click to expand...
but we do not undergo baptism or take part in the Lord's Supper because it is necessary for our salvation. We do so out of gratitude to the One Who has saved us and in order to be brought closer to Him..
 
F

flob

Guest
#7,870
#7,870
baptizing your babies isn't.......bad.......
it just isn't.
Following the apostles' terminology, baptism is for salvation.
But it does not pertain to salvation from the lake of fire
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#7,871
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#7,871
Mec99 said:
But then how do you explain Infant Baptism?

We receive Baptism because we have received Faith by Grace, and we receive Salvation by Faith and Grace.

Infants do not have Faith. Faith comes from believing. Infants cannot think or reason nor understand anything. But yet you Catholics Baptize Infants.

Which proves you are putting Works before Faith. Its by Faith we believe that Jesus is God. Its by Faith and Grace we receive Salvation. And its by Faith and Salvation that we become Baptized.

So yes mwc68 the Catholics are doing just the opposite of what God says in the Scriptures.
Click to expand...
Also, we have a fundamental difference on the reason for baptism. You think its just a symbol where as I know its for a specific purpose
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#7,872
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#7,872
mwc68 said:
Please show me the scripture forbidding infant baptism and I will agree its God's word not to baptise infants. No one has shown me this elusive scripture yet.
Click to expand...
Baptism was to follow belief. That is the constant message of the New Testament. Thus infant baptism is not real baptism. Why would Scripture forbid something it never even thought of as happening?
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#7,873
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#7,873
mwc68 said:
Please show me the scripture forbidding infant baptism and I will agree its God's word not to baptise infants. No one has shown me this elusive scripture yet.
Click to expand...
please show me the Scripture forbidding cutting off children's toes and I will know I must not cut off children's toes. No one has yet shown me that elusive Scripture.
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#7,874
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#7,874
valiant said:
please show me the Scripture forbidding cutting off children's toes and I will know I must not cut off children's toes. No one has yet shown me that elusive Scripture.
Click to expand...
apples and oranges friend! Baptism is doctrine and cutting off children's toes is not. The bible speaks to baptism
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#7,875
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#7,875
mwc68 said:
apples and oranges friend! Baptism is doctrine and cutting off children's toes is not. The bible speaks to baptism
Click to expand...
Let say 20 years old man force to baptize, does he save, because he force to baptized?
 
mwc68

mwc68

Banned
#7,876
Nov 14, 2012
2,113
4
0
#7,876
valiant said:
Baptism was to follow belief. That is the constant message of the New Testament. Thus infant baptism is not real baptism. Why would Scripture forbid something it never even thought of as happening?
Click to expand...
You already know my position and why we baptize. I have to agree to disagree. You're not going to convince me its just a symbol, and I'm not going to convince you it's not
 
M

Mec99

Banned
#7,877
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
0
#7,877
Ephesians 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

1 John 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Mwc68, its the Blood of Jesus shed on the Cross that cleanses us from ALL sin, even Original sin. Our sins are forgiven by the Blood of Jesus.

Tell me where in the Scriptures does God say its by Baptism that we are cleansed of Original sin?

Its one thing to insist its by Baptism we are cleansed of Original sin, its another thing to prove God said this and not the Catholic Church.

But i will be kind to you and tell you mwc68 its not in the Scriptures. The cleansing us of Original sin by Baptism is from the teachings of the Catholic Church.

By saying its Baptism and not the Blood of Jesus that cleanses us of Original sin, the Catholic Church is putting itself above God as absolute Authority.

Now listen carefully, there is nothing wrong with Baptizing Infants. What is wrong is teaching that Baptism washes away Original sin. By teaching this you have subordinated the Scriptures to the Catholic Church.

St. Augustine says in his letter to St. Jerome,"I have learned to hold only the Holy Scriptures inerrant".

The Catholic Church is not inerrant, the Catholic Church is fallibly in its teachings.

Only the Scriptures are inerrant and infallibly.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#7,878
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#7,878
Mec99 said:
Only the Scriptures are inerrant and infallibly.
Click to expand...
You do realize that Catholics agree with you on that. We believe only Scripture to be both inerrant and infallible, but Scripture is not the only thing that is infallible.
 
M

Mec99

Banned
#7,879
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
0
#7,879
The Catholic Church is not infallible. To say so is subordinating the Scriptures to the Catholic Church.

To say the Catholic Church is infallible is putting the teachings of the Catholic Church over the Truth from God. In other words you believe God is inferior to the Catholic Church.
 
M

Mec99

Banned
#7,880
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
0
#7,880
Now the question must be asked, who is your God, Jesus Christ or the Catholic Church?

You cannot say Jesus Christ and believe the Catholic Church is infallible because only God is infallible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.