Why do you think Christ said I pray not for the world, John 17:9

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J

jkalyna

Guest
#1
#1
This is the most touching prayer by Christ. He died for the entire World, and not only that, but said he's gone to prepare a place for us, in his Kingdom, a work that has been fulfilled on earth, and being fulfilled in God's Kingdom.
Why would he say, "in verse 9" I pray not for the world, but then I pray for those who will be called." Are we not to pray for the lost, or not. Sometimes in different bible translations, this could be a problem, as wording the exact words of the Lord. Ty. :)​
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#2
Jul 23, 2013
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#2
That specific prayer was for the disciples and us.
Nothing to do about not praying for the world, I mean heck He sacrificed Himself for the world lol
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#3
Dec 12, 2013
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#3
Christ's mission was to seek and save that which had been lost.....no matter how you slice and dice...he will only save those which exercise faith into his work...everyone else dies an enemy of the cross no matter how moral and decent they may be......that is a hard pill to swallow sometimes!
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#4
#4
dcontroversal said:
Christ's mission was to seek and save that which had been lost.....no matter how you slice and dice...he will only save those which exercise faith into his work...everyone else dies an enemy of the cross no matter how moral and decent they may be......that is a hard pill to swallow sometimes!
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The world also has it's mission to persecute, and an important weapon is to forgive, Christ said, many times forgive, It may be extremely even hard to pray for someone you hate, and you probably won't pray for them, until you forgive first. But that is true, he did die, and were the ones who need to take that step of faith, to believe, to think of it, REv. says, "behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man open I will come to be with him." Yes he cares, and stands at our hearts door, maybe there's no room, just like when he was born, in a barn. Yes it is our will, to choose. Thanks :) {Draw nigh unto me, and I will draw nigh unto thee. } and like Adam, he went into hiding.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#5
#5
breno785au said:
That specific prayer was for the disciples and us.
Nothing to do about not praying for the world, I mean heck He sacrificed Himself for the world lol
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Your right, I thought about this, and it is our choice. To walk, or talk with him. People need to decide. He did his part. amen. Thanks short answer but a big punch of truth. :)
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#6
#6
I think 2 Peter 2 gives insight to the question. the whole chapter, here's a for instance, 9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#7
Nov 24, 2012
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#7
Maybe this verse will help...

"I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. (Joh 17:6)



and then there is this also...

"I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
(Joh 17:20)
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#8
#8
This is Jesus's conclusion prayer. The whole point of everything, creation, dying on the cross, everything was to bring the obedient out of the world to God. And as He said, we are still in the world, but we are not of the world. The world, including evil people, will be destroyed, and we will all be one with God forever because of what Christ did. So He is proclaiming this- He did the work the Father sent Him to do, and these are the results- He lost none that the Father put into His care, except judas- that scripture might be fulfilled. This is a prayer referencing the end result, the only persons that will matter in the end- that's why in this prayer He is not praying for the world, but for all who will be one with Him for eternity.
 
B

bondservant

Guest
#9
#9
How much more can God do to show his love to mankind? What does it take to get the message across? What has been undone that needs to be done? The answer nothing. As the song go​es ..you came from heaven to earth to show the way...from the earth to the cross my debt to pay......from the cross to the grave.....from the grave to the sky....Lord we lift your name on high........only a fool says in his heart...there is no God.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#10
#10
bondservant said:
How much more can God do to show his love to mankind? What does it take to get the message across? What has been undone that needs to be done? The answer nothing. As the song go​es ..you came from heaven to earth to show the way...from the earth to the cross my debt to pay......from the cross to the grave.....from the grave to the sky....Lord we lift your name on high........only a fool says in his heart...there is no God.
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I really like that song, especially sung by Carman.
 
I

Is

Guest
#11
#11
I pray for them - In view of the dangers and trials they world go through, he sought the protection and blessing of God for them.

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. John16:2

I pray not for the world - the inhabitants of it, the carnal unbelieving part of the world (i.e. people that will never accept the truth), that live in sin, and will be condemned.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#12
Nov 19, 2014
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#12
I believe that we should not pray for the world, but for the holy ones, who seek the will of God.

Yeshua do die for the people's of the world, so that we may now live trough him, but in his prayer, he pray only for his follower's.

I believe that we should not pray for them, who do sin in purpose.

16. If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request. 17. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5:16-17)
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#13
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#13
jkalyna said:
This is the most touching prayer by Christ. He died for the entire World, and not only that, but said he's gone to prepare a place for us, in his Kingdom, a work that has been fulfilled on earth, and being fulfilled in God's Kingdom.
Why would he say, "in verse 9" I pray not for the world, but then I pray for those who will be called." Are we not to pray for the lost, or not. Sometimes in different bible translations, this could be a problem, as wording the exact words of the Lord. Ty. :)​
Click to expand...
Perhaps it will help to realize that the word world is used in at least 3 different ways in the NT.


In John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
KJV; 'world' refers to the people of planet Earth.

In John 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
KJV; 'world' refers to the system of values and opinions which opposes itself to God's Word.

in Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV; 'world' refers to planet Earth itself.
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#14
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
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#14
MikkoAinasoja said:
I believe that we should not pray for the world, but for the holy ones, who seek the will of God.

Yeshua do die for the people's of the world, so that we may now live trough him, but in his prayer, he pray only for his follower's.

I believe that we should not pray for them, who do sin in purpose.

16. If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request. 17. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (1 John 5:16-17)
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Do you believe God has reveal Himself to you by His mercy? Or was it by your own effort that God revealed Himself and forgave you of your sin? If the former, shouldn't we learn to have the same compassion and mercy that has been extended to us onto sinners? Lest we think too highly of ourselves. The humble will be exalted and the proud will be humbled.
 
MikkoAinasoja

MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
#15
Nov 19, 2014
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#15
breno785au said:
Do you believe God has reveal Himself to you by His mercy? Or was it by your own effort that God revealed Himself and forgave you of your sin? If the former, shouldn't we learn to have the same compassion and mercy that has been extended to us onto sinners? Lest we think too highly of ourselves. The humble will be exalted and the proud will be humbled.
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Trough mercy, but still we should not pray for the wicked, but for the holy ones, who seek God's will, and yes we should hope for everyone, but our prayer's , supplication should be for the saints who seek God.

13. Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. 14. Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15. and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16. withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one. 17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18. with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, (Ephesians 6 13-18)
 
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J

jb

Senior Member
#16
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#16
jkalyna said:
This is the most touching prayer by Christ. He died for the entire World, and not only that, but said he's gone to prepare a place for us, in his Kingdom, a work that has been fulfilled on earth, and being fulfilled in God's Kingdom.
Why would he say, "in verse 9" I pray not for the world, but then I pray for those who will be called." Are we not to pray for the lost, or not. Sometimes in different bible translations, this could be a problem, as wording the exact words of the Lord. Ty. :)​
Click to expand...
You can find a few thoughts Here on John 17, including v9...

Yahweh Shalom
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#17
#17
jb said:
You can find a few thoughts Here on John 17, including v9...

Yahweh Shalom
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I found something, Love when I come on here. Things open up, like a light, and the Holy Spirit does answer through others. Praise him. I always feel refreshed, and connected, by so many. This site is Priceless, because the Presence of the Lord is with us. amen. amen. I know this is true. I could spend all day praying, but when we connect, their is Love, and Love never faileth, Godly love. The fruits of the HOly Spirit kind. WE admonish each other, unto good works, and good thoughts. Ty. because perfect love casts out fear, it speaks construction, not destruction. This is the difference. Any way, this is a most powerful prayer, yet to be totally understood, and would take much prayer, and petition for it's mystery to be unraveled. :)
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#18
#18
MikkoAinasoja said:
Trough mercy, but still we should not pray for the wicked, but for the holy ones, who seek God's will, and yes we should hope for everyone, but our prayer's , supplication should be for the saints who seek God.

13. Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. 14. Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15. and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16. withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one. 17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18. with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, (Ephesians 6 13-18)
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I agree with you. There have been so many so called wicked persons, coming against me, not on here, but to a great depth, of hatred, that at times that hatred, would seem to take the very heart of love out. I know now why God has not taken the power of evil out of this world, because HIs power is greater, it is him we need to seek, and yes do according to the 91 Psalm, call upon him in the days of trouble, and he will deliver us. Evil plays with our emotions, sometimes we could want to feel sorry for someone, but if you uncover what is behind their mask, it is the devils advocates, his cohorts, and as it says, "avoid all appearances of evil, " least you fall into temptations, of sin, and hatred, and lose your own salvation. amen. Ty for your kind words. :)
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#19
#19
breno785au said:
Do you believe God has reveal Himself to you by His mercy? Or was it by your own effort that God revealed Himself and forgave you of your sin? If the former, shouldn't we learn to have the same compassion and mercy that has been extended to us onto sinners? Lest we think too highly of ourselves. The humble will be exalted and the proud will be humbled.
Click to expand...
Both is true, the best answer to each personally, would be as the Holy Spirit leads, I've had some swindlers of mechanics, and in a dream, that woke me up, to stay away from him, and some other things as well, I wasn't convicted to pray for this person, but to avoid him, if were lead to pray, pray. I would ask the Lord in prayer about it.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#20
#20
MarcR said:
Perhaps it will help to realize that the word world is used in at least 3 different ways in the NT.


In John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
KJV; 'world' refers to the people of planet Earth.

In John 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
KJV; 'world' refers to the system of values and opinions which opposes itself to God's Word.

in Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV; 'world' refers to planet Earth itself.
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Nuggets of Wisdom once again. Ty. You know I didn't see it like that, Jesus always, looked at things from a spiritual perspective, Peter looked at the storm, Jesus disregarded that as being inferior to our faith. This probably is the clearest understanding. The world, has it's own set of values, keys, that only open doors to endless problems, prayer is the key to heaven, and faith unlocks it's door. Wish more people would love the Lord, so many are walking around looking miserable, and without any hope. "I've come that they would have LIFE, and more abundantly. His Joy unspeakable and full of his Glory. I can see it now. TY.
 
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