The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

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Dec 12, 2013
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#41
Again, never said I was sinless. I am saying that I do not abide in urepentant sin habitually as a way of life. I am saying that I believe that a believer can stop sinning and that someday Christ will help me to do so soon if I put forth more and more effort of those teachings within His Word into practice.
The key to your false gospel is the word you use quite a bit...IF I put forth more and more effort...wake UP.....YOU will NEVER be able to help YOURSELF do anything........That is why you will fail...you rely too much upon YOURSELF instead of JESUS!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#42
The key to your false gospel is the word you use quite a bit...IF I put forth more and more effort...wake UP.....YOU will NEVER be able to help YOURSELF do anything........That is why you will fail...you rely too much upon YOURSELF instead of JESUS!
For your information, the word "if" is used 1,784 times in 1,589 verses within the NIV. In the KJV (post 1820 version), the word "if" is used 1,595 times in 1,420 verses. Either way, it is a well used word in the Bible and it places conditions on God's promises.

Examples of some of the "IF" statements in the Bible:

"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."
Genesis 4:7


"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession."
Exodus 19:5a


"After you have had children and grandchildren and have lived in the land a long time – if you then become corrupt and make any kind of idol, doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God and provoking him to anger, I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you this day that you will quickly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess. You will not live there long but will certainly be destroyed."
Deuteronomy 4:25-26


"And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness."
Deuteronomy 6:25


"If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers."
Deuteronomy 7:12


"If you ever forget the LORD your God and follow other gods and worship and bow down to them, I testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed."
Deuteronomy 8:19


"So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today – to love the LORD your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul – then I will send rain on your land in its season, both autumn and spring rains, so that you may gather in your grain, new wine and oil. I will provide grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be satisfied."
Deuteronomy 11:13-15


"If you carefully observe all these commands I am giving you to follow – to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways and to hold fast to him – then the LORD will drive out all these nations before you, and you will dispossess nations larger and stronger than you."
Deuteronomy 11:22-23


"See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse – the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today; the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known."
Deuteronomy 11:26-28


"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
Deuteronomy 13:1-3


"If you make the Most High your dwelling – even the LORD, who is my refuge – then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent."
Psalm 91:9-10


"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land..."
Isaiah 1:18-19


"If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your righteousness like the waves of the sea." Isaiah 48:18


Jesus said: "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."
Matthew 6:14-15


Jesus said: "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Matthew 17:20


Jesus said: "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
Matthew 21:22


Jesus said: "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you."
Luke 17:6


Jesus said: "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
John 8:31


Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
John 8:51


Jesus said: "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"
John 11:40


Jesus said: "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:35


Jesus said: "If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:15


Jesus said: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. if you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you."
John 15:6-7


Jesus said: "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."
John 15:10


Jesus said: "You are my friends if you do what I command."
John 15:14


"If God is for us, who can be against us?"
Romans 8:31


"...if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Romans 10:9


"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
1 Corinthians 15:2


"If anyone does not love the Lord – a curse be on him."
1 Corinthians 16:22


"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
2 Corinthians 5:17


"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19


Source Used:
http://www.anointedlinks.com/iffy.html
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#43
For your information, the word "if" is used 1,784 times in 1,589 verses within the NIV. In the KJV (post 1820 version), the word "if" is used 1,595 times in 1,420 verses. Either way, it is a well used word in the Bible and it places conditions on God's promises.

Examples of some of the "IF" statements in the Bible:

"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."
Genesis 4:7


"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession."
Exodus 19:5a


"After you have had children and grandchildren and have lived in the land a long time – if you then become corrupt and make any kind of idol, doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God and provoking him to anger, I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you this day that you will quickly perish from the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess. You will not live there long but will certainly be destroyed."
Deuteronomy 4:25-26


"And if we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness."
Deuteronomy 6:25


"If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers."
Deuteronomy 7:12


"If you ever forget the LORD your God and follow other gods and worship and bow down to them, I testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed."
Deuteronomy 8:19


"So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today – to love the LORD your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul – then I will send rain on your land in its season, both autumn and spring rains, so that you may gather in your grain, new wine and oil. I will provide grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be satisfied."
Deuteronomy 11:13-15


"If you carefully observe all these commands I am giving you to follow – to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways and to hold fast to him – then the LORD will drive out all these nations before you, and you will dispossess nations larger and stronger than you."
Deuteronomy 11:22-23


"See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse – the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today; the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known."
Deuteronomy 11:26-28


"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul."
Deuteronomy 13:1-3


"If you make the Most High your dwelling – even the LORD, who is my refuge – then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent."
Psalm 91:9-10


"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land..."
Isaiah 1:18-19


"If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your righteousness like the waves of the sea." Isaiah 48:18


Jesus said: "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."
Matthew 6:14-15


Jesus said: "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Matthew 17:20


Jesus said: "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
Matthew 21:22


Jesus said: "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you."
Luke 17:6


Jesus said: "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
John 8:31


Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
John 8:51


Jesus said: "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"
John 11:40


Jesus said: "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:35


Jesus said: "If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:15


Jesus said: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. if you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you."
John 15:6-7


Jesus said: "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."
John 15:10


Jesus said: "You are my friends if you do what I command."
John 15:14


"If God is for us, who can be against us?"
Romans 8:31


"...if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Romans 10:9


"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
1 Corinthians 15:2


"If anyone does not love the Lord – a curse be on him."
1 Corinthians 16:22


"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
2 Corinthians 5:17


"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19


Source Used:
http://www.anointedlinks.com/iffy.html
So what...that does not prove anything as many of them have zero to do with eternal life, eternal justification, eternal sanctification and the sealing of the spirit that is applied unto a genuine beliefver....IF you believe with your heart (mind) and CONFESS with your mouth concerning Jesus being raised from the dead you SHALL BE saved.......

What part of Jesus taking my SIN to the cross and his righteousness being put to my account by FAITH don't you understand? And for the record I have believed with my heart and confessed with my mouth that God has raised him from the DEAD.....JESUS IS LORD, CHRIST and GOD......HE is the Savior....and he finishes what he starts!
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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#44
It sure didn't take Jason long to show up, bringing his chains with him.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#45
You know that is the biggest false lying argument that they have to propagate.......they cannot understand the concept of being totally justified, saved and sealed in Christ which allows us to serve and places in us the desire to serve.....they canot get over the fact that Christ and his work is sufficient to save someone eternally while still being bound in a failing, wicked, fleshly body that sins.....no concept for sure and because we admit the truth they automatically say, claim and lie when they say we are saying we can serve sin and live anyway we want to.....!

What an awesome post! :)
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#46
It sure didn't take Jason long to show up, bringing his chains with him.
The chains is only in your mind. Jesus said his burden is easy and that it is light. Besides, I didnt' make the rules. God's Word promotes holiness and right living while under grace and it does not promote one to think that they can sin and still be saved or that they will be a slave to their sin.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#47
So what...that does not prove anything as many of them have zero to do with eternal life, eternal justification, eternal sanctification and the sealing of the spirit that is applied unto a genuine beliefver....IF you believe with your heart (mind) and CONFESS with your mouth concerning Jesus being raised from the dead you SHALL BE saved.......

What part of Jesus taking my SIN to the cross and his righteousness being put to my account by FAITH don't you understand? And for the record I have believed with my heart and confessed with my mouth that God has raised him from the DEAD.....JESUS IS LORD, CHRIST and GOD......HE is the Savior....and he finishes what he starts!
I take it you didn't read all the passages because some of them do talk about the topic of Soteriology.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#48
It sure didn't take Jason long to show up, bringing his chains with him.

Yeah and his self righteous false gospel.....He said he was gonna try harder and harder to quit sinning....instead of relying upon Jesus and his power he has to do it himself!.....Heck...who needs Jesus with his gospel.....believe in your self and by your own power quit sinning and live righteous!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#49
Yeah and his self righteous false gospel.....He said he was gonna try harder and harder to quit sinning....instead of relying upon Jesus and his power he has to do it himself!.....Heck...who needs Jesus with his gospel.....believe in your self and by your own power quit sinning and live righteous!
Never said it was by my power. I said it was by the power of Christ that will help a believer to stop sinning. For Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil in a person's life.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#50
The chains is only in your mind. Jesus said his burden is easy and that it is light. Besides, I didnt' make the rules. God's Word promotes holiness and right living while under grace and it does not promote one to think that they can sin and still be saved or that they will be a slave to their sin.

No..you just coin your own phrase and gospel message...........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#51
Never said it was by my power. I said it was by the power of Christ that will help a believer to stop sinning. For Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil in a person's life.
Yeah I read what you wrote.....I AM going to TRY harder and harder.....no back peddling here!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#52
Yeah I read what you wrote.....I AM going to TRY harder and harder.....no back peddling here!
Be ye angry and sin not.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

That is what the Scriptures say.
 
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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#54
Yeah and his self righteous false gospel.....He said he was gonna try harder and harder to quit sinning....instead of relying upon Jesus and his power he has to do it himself!.....Heck...who needs Jesus with his gospel.....believe in your self and by your own power quit sinning and live righteous!

Legalists like Jason simply cannot resist threads that expose them for what they are. They jump in, denying their legalism, then hit you with a ton of legalistic condemnation.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#55
Legalists like Jason simply cannot resist threads that expose them for what they are. They jump in, denying their legalism, then hit you with a ton of legalistic condemnation.
Such a statement does not really mean anything unless you can explain the verses I have brought forth by using the context and by providing verses of your own that proves your position. Also, how exactly can your belief be made into a real world example? Did not Jesus illustrate spiritual truth with real world examples?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
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#56
Jason:
Again, never said I was sinless.
Jason:
God's Word promotes holiness and right living while under grace and it does not promote one to think that they can sin and still be saved
So, I guess you aren't saved, huh?
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#57
Jason:

Jason:

So, I guess you aren't saved, huh?
No. I am saved by His mercy and by the regeneration of the Holy Ghost. I do not try to hide and cover my sins. For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). However, if we say will sin again, then one is making an excuse that they are going to sin in the future as if it was okay for them to do so. I do not believe I will forever be a slave to sin. I know Jesus will set me free. You do not believe that. I do. Therein lies the difference between us. I believe God and His Word when it says that they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#60
In other words, the alcoholic who believes he will be sober may stumble on his road to recovery, but that does not mean he will not be set free. However, the alcoholic who says that he will forever drink and yet still be free is only deceiving himself.

The alcoholic who takes that step of faith that he will be free of his addiction to alcohol is like the man of the Lord who believes God's Word when it says that he can be free from sin's control. For the Christian believes God's Word when it says that sin shall not have dominion over him. However, the alcoholic who does not believe he will stop drinking is not believing which is like the man who does not believe God's Word when it says he can cease from sin.
 
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