The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

I don't believe we are on the same side. He denies that Christ died for me (i.e. the Substitionary Atonement). Arguing about such a basic concept of the gospel on that point is not worth even replying to (Because one can see how obviously false it is). Everyone knows that Christ died to save us. He died in my place. It's a foundational truth shown in the Scriptures. For if he did not die in my place, then who did he die for then?

But as for you: Well, what makes us different is that you appear to condone a sin and still be saved doctrine. If that is not the case, then I would love an explanation (As to how that is not so).

eternally-gratefull · Jul 16, 2015

Skinski7 said:

yet you and jason here are defending sin. Just because neither of you consider it sin, or consider it real sin which is so bad it separates us, That is not what God says,

Gods people do not want to sin, and do not want to live sinful lives, they want to live a life pleasing to the lord. And are embarrassed or ashamed when they fail to do this. As david was, Paul was, and everyone who has truly loved God has been.

Yet here you and jason are saying people like us excuse sin, and are not repentant, when in reality that is you my friend, you both need to look in the mirror. A child of God will never be perfect (until he is glorified in eternity) but one thing he will never be is as sinful as he was before he was born into Gods family.

Reborn · Jul 16, 2015

Jason0047 said:

There are only two sides, bro.

convallaria · Jul 16, 2015

Jason0047 said:

"Not sure why you think it is such a bad thing to stop sinning."

Your clear implication is that Blain (and others) think it is a good thing to KEEP sinning. Can't you see that?

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

Reborn said:

Yes, I know. There is God's side and there is the devil's side. But did you know that Scriptures says that he that sins is of the devil and that he that does righteousness is of God?

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

convallaria said:

Oh, yes, Blain has admitted that he hates sinning, but yet he also hates the concept of those who are in favor of sinless perfectionism, too. What he believes is a contradiction. For Jesus said be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

Put this in terms of one being addicted to alcohol. You are saying that one should just throw up their arms and just admit they are an alcoholic and not worry about their drinking problem no more. That they should not strive to be sober and free because nobody is able to really be free from such an addiction.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 16, 2015

convallaria said:

He is lost in the account he can not fathom there is a HUGE difference in hating a false doctrine of sinless perfection. and loving sin.

One can hat sin so bad it rips their insides apart (like paul) yet still admit they are still in sin.

the definition of a hypocrite is to teach others to do something you yourself CANT do, or REFUSE to do.

That is Jason and Skinski (and we can add Sea Bass and a few others to that list) to a T, the sad part is, they can not even see it, their pride is too deep.

Skinski7 · Jul 16, 2015

The condemnation is this...

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

We are to be DOERS of the truth. We are to WALK in the light as He is in the light and only then does the blood of Jesus Christ provide a cleansing.

Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The sin defender dissociate the walk with the cleansing. They teach that the cleansing is obtained via merely "trusting in the provision." Thus their fake religion is "confess, trust and receive."

Go through all their posts and they consistently argue in favour of being able to sin and not surely die. Look at Eternally Grateful's above response. In his mind there is no distinction between willful sin and a sin of ignorance and thus his response is a blatant defence of being able to sin and not surely die. His desire is to implicate every individual as a wicked sinner, thus with everyone being a wicked sinner the only real difference between the saved and the lost is the fake "provision" he believes in. The wicked "saved" are covered by the provision whilst the wicked "lost" are not.

Also notice that these folks deny that the following takes place in the life of the true believer...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

They deny that the law is fulfilled through faith. A faith that works by love (Gal 5:6), a love which fulfills the law (Gal 5:14, Rom 13:8-10), for love works no ill (Rom 13:10).

They believe in a faith which can be disconnected from love. They have to believe that because they believe one can willfully do evil (ie. rebel against the light) and enter the kingdom.

Satan wants all whom are reading this to believe to believe that salvation has nothing to do with a manifest state of inward purity. Satan wants all whom are reading this to believe that salvation is purely an abstract position whereby the heart can still be filthy, for it is from that belief that an argument of being able to sin and not surely die can be made.

Many of you are utterly deceived and many of you choose to be deceived. You all have Bible, you all have the word of Jesus. You all know that Jesus said that bless are the pure in heart for they shall see God. Those implication of those words will become apparent to all at the judgement. Only the doers of the will of God will be able to stand at the judgement.

I for one will be one of those who stand because the alternative is truly grievous. Unrighteousness does not work, it brings discordance to the creation. Sinning against God only brings ruin. True repentance brings this realisation to light and it brings with it the act of turning from our ruin. We instead yield to God and walk faithfully in accordance with the grace of God, the grace of God which lights our way.

Those whom refuse to yield and instead choose to buy into an ear tickling religion which does not require them to yield are on very dangerous ground. They are on the broad way which leads to destruction, the broad way where one does not have to DO, one just has to HEAR AND TRUST. There are so many on that road, and those on that road comfort each other with words of delusion lest any of them find the strait and narrow which leads to life.

May God work a repentance in all of you whom defend being able to sin and not surely die.

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

No. As I said before, an alcoholic who is strivng to put away his alcoholism is not wrong for telling others to stop drinking, too (If they are on the road to recovery). If they are drinking themselves silly all the time and then they said that, then that would be another matter.

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

Skinski:

I would like an apology. We may not think we are on the same side, but you know you judged me wrong in saying that I am for believers saying that they can be child molesters to continue to keep being that way as long as they confess. I do not believe that. Nor do I believe that to be the case if they are a murderer or a thief.

So saying you are sorry for judging me wrongfully in what I believe would be the good and Christ like thing to do.

Anyways, may God's love shine upon you.

I will be praying for you.

Sincereily,

~ Jason.

...

eternally-gratefull · Jul 16, 2015

Skinski7 said:

May God work a repentance in you, in seeing how often you do sin, and how horrific your sin is to God. and this humility which it will bring cause you to fall onto the grace of God and recieve his loving salvation, and freedom in Christ.

Or may you continue in your hypocritical, holier than though religion which has you in chains, as a slave to a law you can not obey, and will lead you straight to the pits of hell, screaming as you go as a little kid who is drug into their room for doing something wrong. because he did not think it was such an awful sin that he was doing.

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

So just giving into evil is the better option? Sorry, I just don't buy that. We know the good guys from the bad guys by what they do.

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

I mean, how on Earth do you read passages like 2 Timothy 3:1-9 and not see that it is talking about the believer who thinks they can sin? For it says they have a form of Godliness but they deny the power thereof and it then lists sins that they commit in that pasage. Not sure how that passage works in your version of God's grace. For when I read that passage, I clearly see it is talking about those believers who do not really have any type of Godliness or righteousness.

JGIG · Jul 16, 2015

Jason0047 said:

No, when the Bible says that all sin has been forgiven, it's saying that what Jesus did was enough.

There absolutely are consequences to sinning, but all JUDGMENT for sinning has been poured out at the Cross.
Don't confuse earthly consequences with eternal judgment.
The believer who sins has continual internal conflict because they DO have a reborn spirit - the DO have New Life in them. You assume that a believer who understands that ALL of their sins, past, present, and future, are forgiven will WANT to go out and sin as much as they can. Not the case.
There IS NO SIN that can separate the believer from God and heaven. The gift of salvation is complete, uttermost (Heb. 7:25). If you believe that there are sins that can separate the believer from God, then you believe that what Jesus did was not enough. That He missed some. That there were sins that would be committed that He didn't see coming.

It may be time for you to examine yourself to see if you are truly in the faith.

-JGIG

Skinski7 · Jul 16, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

This is the perfect example.

This person actually believes an individual can be addicted to alcohol and be going out and getting drunk on the weekends and still be a "saved Christian," so long as they are torn up inside about their conduct.

In other words, so long as one "feels bad" about their wickedness one can take assurance that they are saved.

The same applies for serial killers and child molesters and these people (like Eternally Grateful, Budman etc.) know it which is why they won't directly address specifics like these. They can only respond with a very general allusion to everyone being a sinner via perverting 1Joh 1:8-10 and Rom 7:14-25.

Can one imagine Paul molesting children or committing fornication with the only requisite of "hating it so bad that his insides are ripped apart" whereby he "admits his wickedness." The very Paul who matter of factly stated...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The very Paul who matter of factly stated...

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

We are not to be partakers of evil deeds and we ought not be deceived by those with vain words. No fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous individual, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, no inheritance whatsoever.

Neither do thieves, drunkards or adulterers have any inheritance. We are to flee such things and walk faithfully by love in accordance with the Spirit of God.

Don't be deceived into thinking that your WALK does not matter. Your WALK is a reflection of who you truly belong to, whether that be God or Satan.

If you serve sin then you belong to Satan. If you serve God then you belong to God. God is gracious and merciful and is calling all people everywhere to forsake the service of sin and instead yield to the righteousness that grace teaches. If anyone will repent and turn then God will grant them mercy. That is always how it has been and that is how it is today.

Turn or burn.

Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 16, 2015

JGIG said:

"you must spread some reputation around"

amen sis, People like Jason and Skinski here do not understand.

All sin causes pain and suffering (even if it is not immediate) when we are immune to the pain and suffering of sin (like they are) we become legalist, self righteous, and have an attitude the world hates.

That is not being the light which shines in darkness, that is being darkness which hides the light.

JGIG · Jul 16, 2015

JGIG said:

Jason0047 said:

So now that the meaning of repentance has been clarified as well as that 'end' simply means, 'end', you're going to move the goalposts to try and redefine what 'law' means.

The Greek there is nomos, used most commonly by Paul to refer to THE Law found in Torah. Contextually, Paul is speaking of Israel, and Israel's law is found in Torah. It's clear which Law Paul is referring to in this passage.

-JGIG

Jason0047 · Jul 16, 2015

JGIG said:

Well, when you tell others that their future sin is forgiven them, you are giving them a license to sin. For if I handed out a miracle cure for weight loss that had no ill side effects, then what do you think people are going to do if they took that miracle cure? Many of them will then not worry about eating right and excercising anymore like they used to do. It's because the consequences have been taken away. It's no different when you take away the consequences of sin by saying that their future sin is forgiven them. Oh, sure. You might say they should walk holy and they may even for a time, but at some point they could then easily rationalize sin because there is no real lasting consequence in them committing it. They can have their cake and eat it, too. For "chastisement" is not an effective deterrent to the person who does not really want to obey God. Only those who truly want to please the Lord by doing what is good and right will chastisement be effective.

Oh, and just because somebody is a believer does not mean they will always automatically follow Christ at some point. Matthew 6:15 dispells such a false notion. For Jesus had said Matthew 6:15 to believers and not unbelievers because forgiving others is not really a salvation issue to unbelievers. An unbeliever first has to repent of their sins and accept Christ before they can even understand and obey Matthew 6:15. For Jesus said if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. This is said to the believer. Which means that a believer can be unforgiven or not saved.

convallaria · Jul 16, 2015

Jason0047 said:

This is the false notion that all beleivers will in time do good. But is that really what the Bible teaches? No. How do we know? Who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 6:15? Was he talking to unbelievers or believers? If Jesus was talking to unbelievers then how can his message of not forgiving others be applied to them if they do not believe? So we realize that Matthew 6:15 is talking to believers only. This is important to understand because Jesus says that if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven.

what on earth are you talking about?

The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

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