Rapture= false teaching

joint-heir · Jan 22, 2010

IF I DID NOT LIVE BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST AS MY GOD AND SAVIOR

THEN
I would NEVER EVER walk out my front door considering
what lies out there waiting for me.

DO NOT MAKE SMUG REMARKS
FOR
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT
AND ANYONE WITH SUCH A SMART KNEE JERK REACTION AS YOURSELVES
I WONDER
IF YOU COULD WALK AWAY FROM YOUR BLOOD FAMILY
KNOWING YOU BECAME TARGET NUMBER ONE

BUT SEE
BEHIND A COMPUTER SCREEN
ANYONE CAN SAY AND ACT AS THEY WISH
IT IS THE LIFE YOU LIVE ONCE YOU CRAWL OUT FROM BEHIND YOUR SCREEN
TO FACE THOSE ENEMIES
THAT GOD IS WATCHING TO SEE
WHO YOU NOT ONLY SAY YOU ARE BUT WHAT YOUR ACTIONS
REVEAL WHO THE TRUE YOU REALLY IS

MahogonySnail · Jan 22, 2010

I wish that was the case then I could write a documentary of complete TRUTHS

Click to expand...

LOL VERY TRUE.

LOOK

Click to expand...

THAT'S ALL TRUE ABOUT WRATH,
BUT AS FAR AS I HAVE READ, THE EARLIEST CHRISTIAN BELIEF ABOUT THIS WAS THAT CHRISTIANS WOULD BE KEPT SAFE FROM GOD'S WRATH POURED OUT WHILE THE CHRISTIANS ARE STILL ON THE EARTH.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW - GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS WRATH ON THE EARTH BEFORE. BUT NO TIME DID HE RAPTURE HIS PEOPLE INTO HEAVEN.

LET ME GIVE SOME BIBLE EXAMPLES:

A) NOAHS ARK KEEPING THE PEOPLE OF GOD SAFE AS THE FLOOD CAME AROUND THEM. They were not raptured.

B) THE PEOPLE OF GOD WERE KEPT SAFE INSIDE THEIR HOMES AS THE ANGEL OF DEATH PASSED OVER. They were not raptured.

C) WHEN SODOM AND GOMORRAH WAS DESTROYED - THE PEOPLE OF GOD HAD TO FLEE JUST BEFORE GODS WRATH CAME AND DESTROYED THE CITY. They were not raptured.

D) JESUS TOLD HIS PEOPLE TO FLEE TO THE HILLS WHEN THEY SEE THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION. Again they were not raptured.

WE SEE THAT THE BIBLE EXAMPLES SAY PEOPLE OF GOD ARE KEPT SAFE THROUGH WRATH POURED OUT ON UNBELIEVERS - NO WHERE IS THERE ANY EXAMPLE OF ANYONE BEING RAPTURED to escape - EXCEPT FOR ENOCH BUT THAT WAS NOT TO ESCAPE, ENOCH IS THE EXCEPTION NOT THE NORM.

God will keep His people safe through angelic intervention and practical instructions - BUT ONLY THE DEVOUT, FAITHFUL AND OBEDIENT.

Nuhen · Jan 22, 2010

G-d and His Son, Yeshua, never promised us that things would be easy. Quite the contrary, they promised hell on earth for following them.

So that's why I can't accept the idea of a rapture, and believe everyone will suffer through the tribulation just the same =)

joint-heir · Jan 22, 2010

MahogonySnail said:

YES
BUT
not at any one time during any of these events A-B-C-D( IS JESUS PREACHING ) did we have the
THE COMPLETE GOSPEL
and once it is preached and everyone has heard
THEN
TRIBULATION and the fulfillment of the last of the prophecies
WILL TAKE PLACE

EVERYTHING GETS SEPARATED AT THIS POINT
GOOD AND EVIL WILL NO LONGER CO-EXIST AND BE TOLERATED

WHAT MOST OF YOU ARE MISSING
IS
THAT
THE BRIDE WILL NOT SUFFER SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE SINNERS IN THE END
DURING TRIBULATION
GOD DOES NOT HAVE US TO BE SEPARATE TO ENDURE IN THE SAME FASHION
AS THE LOST
FOR THERE IS NO GLORY FOR GOD IN THAT AT ALL..........

THIS TIME DISPENSATION IS UNLIKE ANY OTHER
THIS IS DIFFERENT
THIS IS BRINGING US TO THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT

MahogonySnail · Jan 22, 2010

EXACTLY I did not say the Bride suffered, I said the Bride was KEPT SAFE THROUGH. GOD WILL BUILD US AN ARK. God will send Angels. GOD WILL PROTECT HIS PEOPLE.

Do you know Psalm 91 APPLIES TO THE GREAT TRIBULATION?

VERSE 7:
A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.

YOU CANNOT PROVIDE ONE EXAMPLE OF GOD RAPTURING ANYONE. GOD PREFERS TO USE PRACTICAL MEANS SUCH AS ARKS AND RUNNING TO MOUNTAINS AND STAYING INSIDE SAFE HOUSES.

DO YOU NOT BELIEVE THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT IS OUR EXAMPLE?

The apostles only KNEW THE OLD TESTAMENT and what I have said is like WHAT THEY BELIEVED.

DO YOU ALSO KNOW THAT TO BE RAPTURED MEANS TO DIE. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven. Pre-trib or post-trib, YOU ARE STILL GOING TO DIE ANYWAY because it is APPOINTED ONCE , for man to DIE. Yes even the pre-tribulated will not avoid dying. Perhaps it is BETTER to die in the tribulation with a METEOR strike to the head instead of dying a slow death from cancer.

Nuhen · Jan 22, 2010

I agree completely, Snail

greatkraw · Jan 22, 2010

How many times do you think the word WRATH is used in Revelation?

WE ARE NOT appointed to WRATH

miktre · Jan 22, 2010

greatkraw said:

You are if you believe in the rapture and follow the first to come.

Graybeard · Jan 22, 2010

Actually not all will die, those alive when Christ returns will be changed in the twinkling of an eye!

and there where a few that were raptured by God in the OT.

miktre · Jan 22, 2010

Graybeard said:

Theres no rapture at the end either, the angels gather us together at the last trump.

Graybeard · Jan 22, 2010

miktre said:

What does it mean to be "caught UP"

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

miktre · Jan 22, 2010

Graybeard said:

17 Then#1 we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them#2 in the clouds#3, to meet the Lord in the air#4:

Explanation of above: #1Then: = When?? - At the seventh trump! {Rev 11:15} - at the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. #2 with them: = Who?? - Those who are already in their spirit bodies - Those who died in the flesh from the beginning of time, who went instantly went back to the Father at the time of their individual deaths. So far so good, now the interpretation of the next two words ('clouds' and 'air') are the 'foundation' [built on sand] of their Rapture doctrines. A whole doctrine built up around two words taken out of context! #3 clouds: = The Rapturist believes this 'clouds' to be like 'rain clouds.' Language lexicons are of little help with this word as it ultimately has two different meanings:

clouds: Greek word #3507 nephele (nef-el'-ay); from #3509; properly, cloudiness, i.e. (concretely) a cloud.
Cloud: #3509 nephos- a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng; a).used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapor obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapor with some form or shape; b). a cloud in the sky

Above we see that the word can mean either a 'cloud in the sky' or a dense multitude or throng (of people). As I said, the Lexicons are not specific enough here for us to 'hang our hat on,' so to speak. However, there is another resource available to us to secure the proper meaning of the word 'cloud' as it is used here, and that is Scripture itself. We shall let the Bible translate itself. The word "Cloud" #3509 'nephos' whence comes our word 'clouds' is used in only one place in the entire Bible, this will remove any ambiguity with the word usage.
Apostle Paul wrote our Scripture here in 1st Thessalonians, he also wrote the book of Hebrews. It is in the book of Hebrews that Paul used the word "cloud #3509." Paul was a Hebrew from the Tribe of Benjamin, but he also spoke Greek and was a naturalized Roman citizen. However, the Greek he spoke was colloquial Greek (or 'street Greek'). This word 'clouds', as it is used here by Paul is a figure of speech, meaning a large group, used also by Paul in {Heb12:1},supplied below for your comparison:

Heb 12:1(Paul's use of the word 'cloud' as a figure of speech)
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (KJV)

Like I said, Paul was using a colloquialism (figure of speech). Paul no more meant that those would meet Jesus in a 'rain cloud' than he meant that the people above would stage a foot-race on a 'rain-cloud.' The use of the word 'cloud' or 'clouds' in these two Scriptures means a crowd, a great multitude, a vast collection, or dense for multitude of people, as in a "cloud of locusts," or, a "cloud of mosquitoes."
Also, when Jesus Christ returns at his second Advent he will be accompanied by an innumerable host of Angels {Rev 19:11-16}. Below, that innumerable host of Angels is referred to as 'clouds.' Jesus isn't coming on or in water clouds, He is coming with clouds of Angels, so many that they will cloud the sky and can not be counted for their multitude:

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV)

Ok, now our last word in this Scripture: #4 air: = I don't even have to tell you how the Rapturist interprets this word. But the word doesn't mean 'air' like in the sky (for you even have 'air' in your basement). But rather it is the spirit of life air, the pneuma, as in a pneumatic tire (whence we get the word pneumatic). It is the animation of the body, the life, the spirit. In the Hebrew of the Old Testament this word finds it's equivalent in 'neshamah,' which is what God blew into Adam's nostrils and he became a living being. The word means "the breath of life." Below we shall provide definitions in both Greek and Hebrew of this "breath of life" or "spirit":

Air: Greek word #109 aer (ah-ayr'); from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient)

This is what God did into Adams nostrils, and through Christ we shall have the "breath of eternal life." The Hebrew counterpart for this word is:

breath of (life): Hebrew word #5397 neshamah (nesh-aw-maw'); from 5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal: KJV-- blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit. Neshamah - The breath, the spirit; a) the breath (of God) b) the breath (of man) c) every breathing thing d) the spirit (of man).

Observe below:

Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)

After Paul wrote this (the first book of Thessalonians) he began receiving reports from Thessalonica that this Scripture was being misinterpreted. Paul hastily, in a scant couple months, wrote the second letter (book) to the Thessalonians, we know this as {2nd Thessalonians}. In the second chapter of that second letter, Paul cleared up all traces of confusion regarding the Scripture we just studied (regarding the Rapture misinterpretation). We shall briefly study that second explanatory letter (2nd Thessalonians). But first, why don't we re-read those five verses that caused all the confusion in Thessalonica then, and in the Rapture churches today, bearing in mind what we just covered. Then we shall let Paul clear away all remaining confusion in the matter.
1Thes 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Graybeard · Jan 22, 2010

rubbish!...THEM are those who are dead IN CHRIST....the Bible is clear...AIR is just that.... AIR.....CAUGHT UP means just that caught UP...UP not next to or down, or along side...UP as in UP there...get it?

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

miktre · Jan 22, 2010

Graybeard said:

More rubbish
Caught up in the spirit, how are you going to fly up anywhere when Christ then New Jerusalem is going to come here. If you were to die today yes you would ascend to Heaven, Christ is coming here to reign 1000 years and then New Jerusalem is coming after the 1000 years, you want to fly off to la la land then see ya, but Christ will be right here

Graybeard · Jan 22, 2010

scoff all you like...that is the words the Bible uses to describe such an event, if you want to view it with a carnal mind then that is your doing, if you do not believe in a God that is far beyond our way of thinking or logic....how can you have faith to believe in the other things of God. It is Written...period, does not matter what you or anyone THINKS....

miktre · Jan 22, 2010

Graybeard said:

What are you talking about? Now you are just ranting on and on. The carnal mind wants to fly, it's been man's ever carnal desire to fly that makes him dream of rapture. Heaven has order it's not Neverland.

Graybeard · Jan 22, 2010

well if you want to find some other meanings for simple words in the Bible..then you have to do that to ALL the words in the Bible, not a select few that you in your carnal mind think "that is impossible..because the law of physics of this world do not allow it" and then attempt to replace it with some cooked up meaning to fit your carnal understanding...THEN GO AHEAD......but as for me...I'll just simply believe what God says and will not question Him.
End of discussion...but I suppose you will just HAVE to have the last say....be my guest.

miktre · Jan 22, 2010

Graybeard said:

If you want to think we run a race on clouds(the only other time this word is in the Bible) then keep dreamin buddy. The Bible is clear Christ comes with clouds of angels.

Heb 12:1(Paul's use of the word 'cloud' as a figure of speech)
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (KJV)
The Bible mentions alot of standing, no flying, but alot of falling. Good luck with your fly away doctrines. You rapurists will despertly find anything you can and mean it to fly away. God tells us in Ezekiel 13 what He thinks of those who teach His children to fly.

miktre · Jan 22, 2010

I offer no apologies for this post and is not directed at any individual member of this forum, rather this endtime prophecy is for the 'rapture doctors' of the great endtime lie in the modern church.

Now hear the Prophet Ezekiel

Ezekiel 13

1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;
Son of man=son of Adam(used of Ezekiel exactly 100 times); They prophesy the rapture doctrine right out of their own hearts and ignore scripture after scripture, now you better hear what God says about it.

3Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
The rapture doctors write their books and make their movies and go on and on about things that are not in the Bible to make their doctrine to seem believable.

4O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
Sneaky animals that come in to spread lies in the church and have left them in ruins.

5Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
Here we have why God is angry with them. We are talking about the prophecies concerning the Day of the Lord when He returns. Their rapture doctrine has left 'ordinary Christians' completely defenseless to stand in that battle. They believe they will be gone thus the rapture doctors have stripped them of their hedge of protection and they shall follow the first to come, satan himself, the most beautiful of the angels and he will claim to be God.

6They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
Vanity=evil lie, lying divination= divine lie. From Mary Mcdonald to the phoneys on TV that claim to have visions of rapture. God says He did not send them. They rip out a verse here and there and twist the word all around to make others believe the lie. God hates this.

7Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
These are not from God but lies to get Christians to fall in the Great Tribulation.

8Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
9And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
Woe unto you rapture doctors. His hand shall be upon you not in love in that Day, rather anger.

10Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
They say you shall always be in peace and not have to face the Great Tribulation. They build a wall for protection and coated(daubed) it with whitewash(untempered morter). What a pitiful wall of protection they have built to have to paint it up to make it look good.Their wall is that we will fly away and escape instead of listening to how Christ told you to make your escape.

11Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
Seventh trump friends comes the hailstones. Remember it when you see how their rapture doctrine has left them defenseless and unprepared.

12Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?
You put so much work into painting this deception of protection. Remember these words here, for if you are a rapture doctor you will here them again.

13Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
God sure is angry at these endtime prophets. Whose fault is it?

14So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Rapture doctrine is satanic at its origins and thats the foundation of it. It's built on sand.

15Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

16To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
Satan will sit in the temple of God proclaiming to be God in Jerusalem. These are the same that will be telling you to follow satan and proclaiming he is our Messiah, he is not. He will tell them in that day,"I knew you not"

17Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,

18And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
Pillows=coverings; armholes= cuffs, where the hands come out of the sleave; kerchiefs=blindfold
The rapture doctrine covering the hands of God that are stretched forth in judgment. You hunt souls by teaching them rapture fairy tales of flying away. What shall be said in that Day when they have worshiped the beast because they were not taught with the simplicity of Christs teachings that satan is coming first?

19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
The rappture doctors take a salary(handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread) for the lies and you can see on TV and at the pulpit begging for money like the beggars they are.

20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
How do you hunt them? With your fly away fairy tells. The only place they are flying is into the snare of satan.

21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
God will take back that which is His.

22Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Boy oh boy what a let down satan will be to people, they will be disappointed in God but this is not God, only a fake. What a wicked path the rapture will lead them down.

23Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD

I stumbled across this interesting song and video on youtube(and no this is not me nor do I know this man). I see there is a movement going on and people are beginning to see as those days draw near. Truth shall always prevail and 'ordinary Christians' and people they are believing it.

Ezekiel Chapter 13 - by Paul Stringini - Prophesy Against the Prophets
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-0aPlnepPM[/video]

charisenexcelcis · Jan 22, 2010

Mikre, the lexicon you used lists the literal and most common definition of the word cloud first. Do you think that in the NT times when someone said "Look at that interesting cloud." the other would say, "I don't see any people." You need to interpret it literally unless the context demands it. Paul does not say "cloud of spirit people. By the way, the Greek word is nephelee and is used about twenty-five times in the scripture. The Hebrew passage alone uses the nephros derivitive. As for the verse that says "last trump", last is a comparitive. In your interpretation you certainly do not believe that trumpets will be forbidden in heaven. So it is a matter of asking the last of what? You have the word pneuma and aera mixed up. If the writer wanted to say what you are propsing he would have used pneuma rather than aera because aera has less of a spiritual connotation. Superman flies in the aera and Spectra in the pnuema, for you comic book geeks. The order of I Thess is pretty clear--the Lord descends, the dead rise, then the living, we meet him in the clouds in the air (notice the double emphasis). It then says that it will be a sudden thing and that God has not destined us for wrath. The big question is not what but when, as you know.

Rapture= false teaching

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