Refute Against OSAS

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Feb 5, 2015
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#1
(Originally posted by Jan "Justice" Boshoff, aka, FinalCall07)

The words of Jesus Christ are the words of eternal life and we will be judged by those words. Many believers look for an opportunity to sin and therefor they twist the scriptures, they select certain scriptures to justify their sinfulness. Jesus commanded us to live in utter holiness and obedience to Him. The apostles, Peter, Paul, John and the others also preached the same message, they preached Jesus Christ but some people twist the scriptures to their own detriment.


Let us read the words of Peter in this regard. We read from 2 Peter 3:10 “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

11. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, WHAT SORT OF PEOPLE OUGHT YOU TO BE IN HOLY CONDUCT AND GODLINESS, 12. looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13. But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.”

Peter emphasizes here:”WHAT SORT OF PEOPLE OUGHT YOU TO BE IN HOLY CONDUCT AND GODLINESS,” because God will purge the earth of all unrighteousness and He is creating a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness will dwell and ONLY THE RIGHTEOUS will dwell in there.


Peter writes further in verse 14. “Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, SPOTLESS AND BLAMELESS,” I repeat SPOTLESS AND BLAMELESS. “ 15. and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16. as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which THE UNTAUGHT AND UNSTABLE DISTORT, AS THEY DO ALSO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES, TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. 17. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18. but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.”


The gospel that is preached in many churches today, causes many people to fall into sin, to live in unholiness and immorality because they believe that it is acceptable to be sinful whereas Jesus Christ says that “those who sin are slaves to sin.” We must be HOLY AND UTTERLY RIGHTEOUS or else we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven. These people also TWIST THE WORDS OF PAUL and pull out, they highlight certain scriptures by which they justify sin but they neglect to read all of the writings of Paul and to seriously seek the truth or else they will find the truth also in the words of Paul. These people TWIST THE TRUTH and many run after them and they will be destroyed with them.


We now read from Romans 8:1. Paul wrote:”Therefore THERE IS NOW NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN Christ Jesus.” There cannot be any condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus because they LIVE IN HIS WILL. They OBEY Him.

Verse 2. “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, WHO DO NOT WALK ACCORDING TO THE FLESH BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.”

If we are led by the Holy Spirit and not by our FLESH then we will not sin but we will COMPLY with the law, we will DO what the Spirit guides us to go, we WILL live in UTTER RIGHTEOUSENSS AND HOLINESS and that is why the requirement of the law will be fulfilled in us, because we are led by the Spirit of God and we do RIGHTEOUSNESS.


Verse 5:”For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.” If your MIND is on sin, on the TV, on the things of this world, on the things that you LUST AFTER then you will sin, you will do what is wrong, but if your mind is on Jesus and on the things of the Spirit of God, YOU WILL NOT SIN, you will live in holiness and righteousness, you will be LED BY THE SPIRIT. It all depends on where your mind is. Is your mind on Jesus Christ and on obeying Him or do you occupy yourself with TV, video games, the newest technology, celebrities, movies, the things of this world? Where is your mind? Where your mind is there your body will go. If your mind is on sin and lust and pornography that is what you will do but if your mind is on Christ you won’t do those things, you will do what is pleasing to Jesus.


Verse 6: “FOR THE MIND SET ON THE FLESH IS DEATH, BUT THE MIND SET ON THE SPIRIT IS LIFE AND PEACE, 7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” That is why PEOPLE CANNOT STOP SINNING, because their mind is set on the FLESH. They are carried after their LUSTS and they do WICKEDNESS. They do what is in their mind.

Verse 9: “However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.” Why do so many believers run after sin? Because they do not have the Holy Spirit. Their mind is not on Christ.

Verse 10.”If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”

12So then, brethren, WE ARE UNDER OBLIGATION, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13for IF YOU ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, YOU MUST DIE;but if BY THE SPIRIT YOU ARE PUTTING TO DEATH THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, YOU WILL LIVE. “ Is that not CLEAR that we have to live in holiness and righteousness? And that we will do so if indeed we are led by the Spirit of God; we will not live according to the flesh, the desire of the flesh but we will follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit and DO what is pleasing to God. Therefor we will live FOR Jesus and DO His WILL, DO His WORKS, DO that which He guides us to do. Our body will not be used for the dead works of the flesh, we will be DEAD TO SIN and ALIVE TO CHRIST!

Verse 14.”For ALL WHO ARE BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, these are sons of God.” If you are not led by the Spirit of God then you are not manifesting, then you are not SHOWING yourself as a son of God, as a child of God. If you sin you are a child of the devil, you show by your deeds who your father is, you show by your deeds whom you are following. If you are following Jesus you will do HIS WORKS, you will obey Him. But if you sin you are a son of the devil and you are following your father.


Verse 15:”For you have not received a SPIRIT OF SLAVERY leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” We have not received a spirit of slavery, we have received a spirit of freedom, the Spirit of God. IF WE SIN WE ARE SLAVES TO SIN. If we are BORN AGAIN we are FREE from the POWER OF SIN and we can cry out to our Father, “Abba! Father!” and He will guide us. He will keep us from the power of the evil one IF we WANT TO. But if we turn to sin we do it by our OWN FREE WILL. God gives us the power to overcome the powers of evil and of sin because He is our Father, we can cry out: “Abba! Father!” and He will help us.

Verse 16. “The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, IF INDEED WE SUFFER WITH HIM so that we may also be glorified with Him.” If we are children of God we have the APPROVAL, and we have the CONFIRMATION of the Holy Spirit in our heart that He is pleased with us, that we ARE children of God. If we do not have that confirmation, that PEACE that passes all understanding, because we KNOW that we are DOING the WILL OF GOD, if we don’t have that then we are not in the will of God, we are not led by the Spirit of God.

There is no room for sin and unrighteousness in the Kingdom of God. Many twist the scriptures to their own detriment and then they do the works of unrighteousness for which they will perish. Obey Jesus Christ, BE RIGHTEOUS and BE HOLY and ASK Him to give you UNDERSTANDING of the scriptures, which he WILL if you ASK Him.

Do not listen to these unprincipled preachers who take advantage of simple people and deceive them for their own personal gain. They want you to come to their church and listen to their filth, their immorality. Do not fellowship with unprincipled men who live in immorality, whose churches are full of sinners, people who confess to be sinners.
Be righteous, be holy, obey Jesus Christ, even if you walk alone. Follow Jesus Christ, listen to the Holy Spirit and He will guide you into utter righteousness and holiness and you will receive confirmation from the Holy Spirit that Jesus is pleased with you. Be led by the Spirit of God and not by the deception of men who twist the scriptures.
May Jesus bless you.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#2
Here is many passages from the bible that need to be read by those who believe OSAS, which was adopted by Augustine's eternal security doctrine from the 4th century:

Matthew 25:1-13, 14-30; Luke 8:13, 9:62, 12:42-48; John 15:1-6; Acts 4:32, 5:1-11, 8:9-24, 20:28-30; Romans 11:13-23; 1 Cor. 9:26-27, 10:1-12; Galatians 2:11-14, 5:4, 6:1; 1 Timothy 1:18-20, 4:1, 5:8, 6:10; 2 Timothy 2:16-18; Hebrews 3:12, 4:1-2, 4:11, 6:4-8, 10:26-31, 10:38-39; James 5:19-20; 1 Peter 5:8; 2 Peter 2:1, 2:20-22, 3:17; 2 John 1:8-9; Revelation 2:4-5, 3:5, 3:16-17








*Things Children of God Can Do:


1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14






A HISTORICAL EXAMINATION
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
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#3
God is not an Indian Giver.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#4
It's taking me years to give up on my own works and start realizing how much it's about what Jesus did and is still doing. Anything else, inevitably leads to sin. His strength not ours, is slowly becoming a revelation to me, not merely head knowledge.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#5
Here is many passages from the bible that need to be read by those who believe OSAS, which was adopted by Augustine's eternal security doctrine from the 4th century:

Matthew 25:1-13, 14-30; Luke 8:13, 9:62, 12:42-48; John 15:1-6; Acts 4:32, 5:1-11, 8:9-24, 20:28-30; Romans 11:13-23; 1 Cor. 9:26-27, 10:1-12; Galatians 2:11-14, 5:4, 6:1; 1 Timothy 1:18-20, 4:1, 5:8, 6:10; 2 Timothy 2:16-18; Hebrews 3:12, 4:1-2, 4:11, 6:4-8, 10:26-31, 10:38-39; James 5:19-20; 1 Peter 5:8; 2 Peter 2:1, 2:20-22, 3:17; 2 John 1:8-9; Revelation 2:4-5, 3:5, 3:16-17








*Things Children of God Can Do:


1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14






A HISTORICAL EXAMINATION
Augustine was still very much influenced by works for salvation. He believed in today's "perseverance of the saints." He was quite far from eternal security......"preservation of the saints."

Calvin and Arminius believed the SAME thing when it comes to "perseverance"

One just said, "you will lose your salvation if you don't have works."

The other said," You really were not saved if you don't have works."

It is just semantics that separate the two. Augustine was a Catholic that removed the robes and ritual, He was not far from the catholic doctrines though.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#7
Augustine was still very much influenced by works for salvation. He believed in today's "perseverance of the saints." He was quite far from eternal security......"preservation of the saints."

Calvin and Arminius believed the SAME thing when it comes to "perseverance"

One just said, "you will lose your salvation if you don't have works."

The other said," You really were not saved if you don't have works."

It is just semantics that separate the two. Augustine was a Catholic that removed the robes and ritual, He was not far from the catholic doctrines though.

I think you need to do some research on this, and I gave you a link to help you along as Augustine started the eternal security doctrine in the 4th century. In his doctrine he said that falling away and apostasy was both impossible, even though the word of God teaches on both areas do and will happen.

Neither one of them taught lose of salvation as both of them said that it is impossible to fall away !!!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#8
It's taking me years to give up on my own works and start realizing how much it's about what Jesus did and is still doing. Anything else, inevitably leads to sin. His strength not ours, is slowly becoming a revelation to me, not merely head knowledge.

This is why the bible emphasizes on walking in the fruits of the Spirit !!!

Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John all speak on this and all of them show that by walking in those fruits they will lead you away from sin and keep you from stumbling. Walking in the Spirit is not doing our own thing, but instead is by love for the Lord our God obeying His guidance for us on how to be in the faith.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#9
I think you need to do some research on this, and I gave you a link to help you along as Augustine started the eternal security doctrine in the 4th century. In his doctrine he said that falling away and apostasy was both impossible, even though the word of God teaches on both areas do and will happen.

Neither one of them taught lose of salvation as both of them said that it is impossible to fall away !!!
This is what I am telling you Kenny. If one fell away, they were not really saved. They taught this garbage.

Every believer that thinks they can lose salvation has fallen away from the true faith. Are they "unborn" because they leave the true faith? NO.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#10
Actually Jesus started the eternal security doctrine...not Augustine...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(Joh 5:24)
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#11
Actually Jesus started the eternal security doctrine...not Augustine...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(Joh 5:24)
Your exactly right Crossnote. That is the actual verse that we build eternal security from. The "truly,truly" or "Amen,amen" points directly to a doctrine that we need to pay particular attention to and will be attacked by the kingdom of darkness.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#12
This is what I am telling you Kenny. If one fell away, they were not really saved. They taught this garbage.

Every believer that thinks they can lose salvation has fallen away from the true faith. Are they "unborn" because they leave the true faith? NO.
Actually Jesus started the eternal security doctrine...not Augustine...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(Joh 5:24)

Are you sure about that, well lets see what the Lord Jesus said;


Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Let's see if His Holy Spirit also agrees with this statement that shows only if you are not drawn away by false teaching and endure will you be saved unto eternal life through Him;

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly
, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Seems like we now have 2 witnesses that state the same thing that some will depart/fall away from the faith to follow after false teachings. Can we find other witnesses in the bible to confirm this, yes we can;

Apostle Paul:

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Apostle James:

James 5:19-20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 
F

flob

Guest
#13
Christians are judged by the Lord during His return--before He sets foot back on the Mount of Olives.
The Antichrist and False Prophet are judged--thrown into the lake of fire after Armageddon.
The surviving nations are judged by the Lord on the earth after Armageddon.
The dead are resurrected and judged 1000 years later, after the Millennium and before the new heavens
and new earth. No one who received the Lord as eternal life to become his wife, child, brother....will be at
the last judgment. The 'death' of James 5:20 is not this eternal death
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#14
Actually Jesus started the eternal security doctrine...not Augustine...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(Joh 5:24)
Your exactly right Crossnote. That is the actual verse that we build eternal security from. The "truly,truly" or "Amen,amen" points directly to a doctrine that we need to pay particular attention to and will be attacked by the kingdom of darkness.

That is the issue to as you can not take and have scriptures stand alone like that, because as you can see you focus on the last half but do not take and go to the Lords word on what it means to believe in Him.

Luke 6:46-49


And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

(True faith)
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

(False profession of faith)
But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#15
Are you sure about that, well lets see what the Lord Jesus said;


Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

Let's see if His Holy Spirit also agrees with this statement that shows only if you are not drawn away by false teaching and endure will you be saved unto eternal life through Him;

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly
, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Seems like we now have 2 witnesses that state the same thing that some will depart/fall away from the faith to follow after false teachings. Can we find other witnesses in the bible to confirm this, yes we can;

Apostle Paul:

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Apostle James:

James 5:19-20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The Matt passage deals with the great Tribulation not us as the Church. And even still they endure because they are believers, not the other way around.

The Timothy passage deals with 'the Faith' , meaning the body of teachings given to us by the Apostles...not our personal faith.

This is ridiculous. I can post 50 or so verses supporting osas. What an exercise in futility. Continue in your deception...I don't have time to waste. This has been batted so much there is nothing left of the hide of the dead horse. Silly.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#16
The Matt passage deals with the great Tribulation not us as the Church. And even still they endure because they are believers, not the other way around.

The Timothy passage deals with 'the Faith' , meaning the body of teachings given to us by the Apostles...not our personal faith.

This is ridiculous. I can post 50 or so verses supporting osas. What an exercise in futility. Continue in your deception...I don't have time to waste. This has been batted so much there is nothing left of the hide of the dead horse. Silly.

I knew you would go there about Matthew 24, but here is the issue you would have then because the Lord Jesus said the same thing when He commissioned the original Apostles to go out and spread the good news in Matthew 10;

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

If the original Apostles were told they would have to endure to the end to be saved, and those who go through the tribulation are told the same. You can guarantee that we also are under this same standard, as the Lord our God shows no favoritism. Plus the Lord also said that we are not above Him and thus since He was persecuted we also will face persecution !!!

Hebrews 10:36 is another scripture that shows that enduring and doing the will of God come before receiving of eternal life, and only those who persevere through life and remain steadfast in the gospel of Christ will receive eternal life. (James 1:12)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#17
I knew you would go there about Matthew 24, but here is the issue you would have then because the Lord Jesus said the same thing when He commissioned the original Apostles to go out and spread the good news in Matthew 10;

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

If the original Apostles were told they would have to endure to the end to be saved, and those who go through the tribulation are told the same. You can guarantee that we also are under this same standard, as the Lord our God shows no favoritism. Plus the Lord also said that we are not above Him and thus since He was persecuted we also will face persecution !!!

Hebrews 10:36 is another scripture that shows that enduring and doing the will of God come before receiving of eternal life, and only those who persevere through life and remain steadfast in the gospel of Christ will receive eternal life. (James 1:12)
I guess you didn't read me the first time. Let me repeat with added flavor...

"This is ridiculous. I can post 50 or so verses supporting osas. What an exercise in futility. Continue in your deception...I don't have time to waste. This has been batted so much there is nothing left of the hide of the dead horse. Silly."
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#18
I guess you didn't read me the first time. Let me repeat with added flavor...

"This is ridiculous. I can post 50 or so verses supporting osas. What an exercise in futility. Continue in your deception...I don't have time to waste. This has been batted so much there is nothing left of the hide of the dead horse. Silly."

It is ridiculous because that doctrine has been refuted and proven faulty so many times.
The major church leaders in the late 80's even banded together to try and drive out this bad doctrine, but here we are in 2015 and it is back at an all time high. Remember the bible says false doctrines were rise and the true word of God will become less in the last days and osas is almost as big as the Catholic doctrine now days. It has even found its way into Baptist churches that originally never taught it!!!
 
B

bondservant

Guest
#19
just to weigh in on this matter I've been through the scriptures and given this issue a lot of thought.here is where I was led. At a certain time that I believe to be shortly the world is going to demand proof of God. They will want to see him preform much like Jesus in front of herod. We all know that true faith is believing in things that are not seen and that which is not yet evident. I feel that many will fall away as they reason with their own minds and come to fleshly conclusions. Leaving those that are left in the crosshairs of society. In genesis 3 the serpent ask did God say? When eve looked at the tree and saw it was good she took the fruit and ate it then shared it. This on top of (if the Lord tarries) the second comming not happening will make our faith like a fairytale to the world. People will disassociate with the church because of the ridicule. It's just a thought still working on it.