Rapture= false teaching

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
so the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth trumpet are the last trumpet?... because that's what you're saying...
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
Verse 16 clarifies who this 'catching up' is referring to and it is those who are 'in Christ' whether they be dead or alive.

16 'For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first'
Ton of lies and half truths in your post, tell him when this happens. At the LAST trump.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
You guys can't even count to seven to make your heresies work.



Reading the book of Ephesians and Colossians, you find that those who are 'in Christ' refers to the 'church' and 'body of Christ'. No other place in scripture does the term 'in Christ' refer to any other group, not even the tribulation saints. This term is unique to the church and 'body of Christ'. The OT saints where not members of Christ's body and the term 'body of Christ' is not used for any of the tribulation saints as well. You will not find that term describing any of the saints in the book of Revelation and you better not add it either. The only saints (made of both Jews and Gentiles, as the elect of God or those who are in Christ) that 1Thes 4:16,17 is referring to as being 'caught up', is the 'church' and 'body of Christ' who Christ is the head.

None of the OT saints will be part of this 'catching up', rapture, ascension or resurrection from the dead. Only those that are 'in Christ' will ascend to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Is God a respecter of persons, NO! It's His plan, His Body, His church and His possession to do as He sees fit. This advent of the church being 'caught up' in the rapture, marks the beginning of the (7) year period of the great tribulation. This catching up of the church will be done decently and in order with no confusion, though a strong delusion may come later as to what happened (that was for MahoganySnail's sake). Some should stop trying to force the hand of God to make the 'church' have to go through a time of great tribulation that He has not appointed or ordained for those believers who are 'in Christ' and make up the dispensation of the church. If any would trust the written word they would see the plan and purpose of God in relationship to the church, His body in Eph 1:9-14, Eph 3:1-6, Col 1:24-29, Rev 3:10.

We also know that every believer that makes up the (7) churches in Rev 1-3 are all 'in Christ'. All these believers are kept by the power of god and the word of His patience / 1Pt 1:5.

Rev 3:10 'Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.'
Keep thee doesn't mean fly away, more

When there is a fire on the stove and your child is tempted to draw his hand toward the heat of the flame, you grab them and keep them from the flame so they don't get burned. The church will begin to feel the heat of the hour of temptation and the Lord will appear on the scene in the clouds of the air and the voice of the trumpet will call them away and take them up into heaven, keeping them from the fierce flames of the great tribulation that will come upon the earth.
Keep thee doesn't mean fly away, more garbage commentary. God's wrath will not hurt us for we will have the seal of God.


Hour of temptation has to do with the lusts of men, whose hearts have little or no restraint to satisfy the desires of the flesh and of the mind in a reckless and negligent manner. This will describe much of the world that comes under this hour of temptation through the mystery of iniquity, which is already at work / 2Thes 2:7. Man will be tempted beyond measure and have no desire for restraint. 2Tim 3:1-9 describes the perilous times that will come upon the inhabitants of the earth and describe the condition of man's heart prior to and during the time that Christ comes for His church.

The chaos that will be upon the earth when the church is taken up will be the condition and manifestation of man's heart being expressed toward one another under a system of evil that Satan controls as the prince and power of the air / Eph 2:2, who represents his own authority as the god of this world / 2Cor 4:4. This hour of temptation turns into great tribulation for those that inhabit the earth / Rev 12:9. The wrath of Satan will be toward the remnant that have the testimony of Jesus Christ and the wrath of God will follow and consummate at the battle of Armageddon against the children of disobedience, with the vial of the (100) lb hailstones being poured out into the air, and Babylon being destroyed/ Rev 16-18. The church, who will be among those that dwell in heaven, will be rejoicing at this great sight / Rev 12:12, 18:20
More butchering of the scripture. Garbage.
You are the one who fails to see the context of I Thess 5:9--that we are not destined for his wrath-- as I Thess 4:13-5:8. The unknown timing of the Lord's coming should cause us to live lifes that are as sons of the light because God does intend us to suffer His wrath, but (5:10) that whether dead or alive we may live together with Him. That's not butchering, that readin within the context, not chopping it up.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
that's right, joint-heir... 200 years...
that puts us right up to the point to when it was first invented by Edward Irving.

you know, I can go back even further for post-tribulation... i can go back 1500-1700 years with the writings of Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Theophilus, Lactantius, Hippolytus, Victorinus, and even Polycarp, one of the Apostle John's disciples... all taught and were taught that the church would endure at the hands of Antichrist.

You say it's the first time you ever heard it... this is not some new teaching that just sprang up in the middle of nowhere like pre-trib did. Post-tribulation has a history... a long history that goes back to the time of Christ, it can be seen in the Protestant reformers, even the Catholic Church, and even before that.

you call me a religious zealot, and yet I will still call you a brother in Christ... maybe mislead, but you're still my brother, and I love you all the same.
I'd rather you not get your hopes up on something that doesn't exist, and then when it doesn't come, be tempted to fall away when Antichrist reveals himself to the world... I love you too much to see that happen to you. You seem like a devout follower of Chirst... I'd rather you not be tempted to fall away
And all believed in the taking up of the church. The teachers that you proclaim believed that they were living in the tribulation. Your theology is no older than his.
 
M

MilesPrower

Guest
well. I don't want to stick my foot in too much, but it might be good to remember that maybe it shouldn't really matter if we know WHAT exactly will happen and WHEN, none of us can predict christ's return anyway, can we? christ said he didn't even know when, if I recall correctly. and actually seeing what'll happen will beat the pants off of a few paragraphs theorizing what possibly could happen. it might be better to just drop the subject and devote all this time and knowledge to witnessing to people. on both sides. I mean there was that thing paul said about 'so long as you agree on these things', right? I mean, we all agree jesus is the son of god, we all agree he died and he was raised again, we all agree he WILL come again, so why does it matter if we know the time and the place? it's like aren't you just fighting for Special Knowledge or something? I mean, shouldn't we all be united, instead of fighting about things which don't concern us? Dudes, what are you DOING?
 
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
And all believed in the taking up of the church. The teachers that you proclaim believed that they were living in the tribulation. Your theology is no older than his.
actually, no they didn't.

Hippolytus taught futurism... not historicism.

Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 27,28
"As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image
are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth
beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little
more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal
survey. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the
Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented
the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard,
meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander’s time; the
legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans,
who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part
clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of the kingdoms that
are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the
Antichrist in their midst; the stone that smites the earth and brings
judgment upon the world was Christ."

rergardless of them being futurist or historicist or postmillennialist, they still taught the most important lesson that post-tribulation teaches today: endurance and perseverance through tribulation... not some escapist fantasy before facing tribulation, as pre-tribulation and dispensationalism teaches. The doctrine of these teachers have more credibility than your doctrine, because what they taught has been carried out and taught all throughout history...

it's seen within the early teachings of Catholicism
within the teachings of orthodoxy
within the teachings of the Protestant Reformers... that was when you got your Historcist viewpoint. it was the Protestant Reformers that believed the pope was Antichrist, and the Roman Catholic Church was the was the whore of Babylon.

your pre-trib doctrine has utterly no foundation whatsoever in the entire history of the church prior to 1827, when Edward Irving began to teach it in his Catholic-Apostolic church in Scotland.

YES, they believed in a taking up of the church... SO DO I.
however, they also believed they would suffer at the hands of Antichrist before the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ...

they also believed in the Six Day Theory, which says that a thousand years on earth is like a day to God in Heaven... it teaches that we would be on earth for 6,000 years before Jesus Christ would return. Commodianus, Irenaeus, Cyprian, Methodius, Lactantius, and Theophilus taught this... they knew they would be on this earth for the reign of Antichrist, and as such, they continued to teach perseverance and endurance.

they never taught an imminent return, as pre-trib does today... they taught expectancy.
your man-made doctrine holds no ground whatsoever against the teachings of Christ.
 
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
well. I don't want to stick my foot in too much, but it might be good to remember that maybe it shouldn't really matter if we know WHAT exactly will happen and WHEN, none of us can predict christ's return anyway, can we? christ said he didn't even know when, if I recall correctly. and actually seeing what'll happen will beat the pants off of a few paragraphs theorizing what possibly could happen. it might be better to just drop the subject and devote all this time and knowledge to witnessing to people. on both sides. I mean there was that thing paul said about 'so long as you agree on these things', right? I mean, we all agree jesus is the son of god, we all agree he died and he was raised again, we all agree he WILL come again, so why does it matter if we know the time and the place? it's like aren't you just fighting for Special Knowledge or something? I mean, shouldn't we all be united, instead of fighting about things which don't concern us? Dudes, what are you DOING?
Christ never gave the specific time... but He most certainly did give us the general time... that is why He told us to endure to the end (Matthew 24:13) He told us generally when He would come so that we would know that there is an end to all of this suffering, and pain, and trial... and it's not in some secret pre-trib snatching... it's AFTER the great tribulation.

you know, Prower, before 1827, there was no debate over some secret snatching of the church... no oen argued that Christ would come after the great tribulation... the teaching was unanimous that Christ would come after the great tribulation.

However all that changed with Edward Irving. It was invented by him, spoken by a spirit through Margaret MacDonald, pushed by John Nelson Darby, taught exclusively by the fake Bible scholar Cyrus Scofield in his scofield "reference" Bible, and made even more popular by Hal Lindsay, Thomas Ice, Perry Stone, John Hagee, Tim LaHaye, Jerry B. Jenkins, and many other pastors and teachers, and writers...

when you look at it's history, it crept in through a false spirit, and divided the church even more than it already is.
 
M

miktre

Guest
FROM MIKTRE

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You are really going to tell me these are speaking of separate events???????????????
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed


FROM JOINT-HEIR

VERSES 16 AND 17
ARE THE FIRST TRUMP
BY WHICH THE DEAD IN CHRIST AND WE THAT ARE ALIVE THE BRIDE WILL BE CAUGHT UP WITH JESUS

VERSE 52
IS RIGHT BEFORE JESUS COMES DOWN TO EARTH FROM ARMAGEDDON
AND NOTICE
THE VERSES BEFORE AND AFTER 52 DO NOT SPEAK ABOUT THE LIVING
BECAUSE
THESE ARE THE DEAD WHO DID NOT TAKE THE 666 MARK

YES
THESE ARE CLEARLY
2 SEPARATE TRUMPS AND RESURRECTIONS OF RAPTURE
You would have to be completely insane to believe this.
 
Nov 12, 2009
354
2
0
You would have to be completely insane to believe this.
FROM MIKTRE

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

You are really going to tell me these are speaking of separate events???????????????
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed


FROM JOINT-HEIR

VERSES 16 AND 17
ARE THE FIRST TRUMP
BY WHICH THE DEAD IN CHRIST AND WE THAT ARE ALIVE THE BRIDE WILL BE CAUGHT UP WITH JESUS

VERSE 52
IS RIGHT BEFORE JESUS COMES DOWN TO EARTH FROM ARMAGEDDON
AND NOTICE
THE VERSES BEFORE AND AFTER 52 DO NOT SPEAK ABOUT THE LIVING
BECAUSE
THESE ARE THE DEAD WHO DID NOT TAKE THE 666 MARK

YES
THESE ARE CLEARLY
2 SEPARATE TRUMPS AND RESURRECTIONS OF RAPTURE
In vs. 16 & 17, can you explain how you understand the dead in christ to be the bride. I always thought the bride to be ALL of christ's followers. So this diputes a division that the rapture suggests...
 
M

miktre

Guest
#3509-lol that sounds so funny--nephos is only used once, but only in Hebrews and so even if you distiguish it in this way it only applies to the Hebrews passage. So, Matt. 17:5 a bright cloud (nephelee) overshadowed them. Was this a congregation of people? Did the voice of God speak out of the crowd of people? Sorry, no spiritual meaning there. I interpret it in context beginning with the literal and only see it as a metaphor when force to by context.
Do you believe that there will be no trumpets in heaven? Last is always relative. The trumpet of which he speaks may be the trumpets of our usefulness.
Trumpets in heaven??? You must be joking, right? What in the heck are the trumpets for??? Trumps in heaven??? heresy. They are for us to heed the call! What an outright disregard for the scripture, you corrupt even the simplest of teachings. How can you so willingly teach this is beyond me. The trumpets are for our benefit and you want to rob ordinary Christians of that. Tisk, tisk. Bible says plain as day it's the LAST TRUMP and to let us know and you even want to twist that.Anybody with any sense knows the last trump is the seventh. So simple.
 
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
0
55
You would have to be completely insane to believe this.

NOT at all


The CATCHING AWAY is for the BRIDE (WE WILL BE AT THE MARRIAGE SUPPER WHILE THE WRATH OF GOD WILL BE ON EARTH)
JESUS WILL BE IN THE CLOUDS FOR THIS TO MEET HIS BRIDE THEN TAKE US TO HIS FATHERS HOUSE AS SCRIPTURE REVEALS


The TAKING UP's is for the
2 WITNESSES
the 144,000
BEHEADED of TRIBULATION (THESE WILL BE TRANSFORMED IMMEDIATELY JUST AS SCRIPTURE CONVEYS TO BE PART OF THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON)
JESUS WILL BE DESCENDING DOWN TO EARTH WITH HIS BRIDE FOR BATTLE AND THOSE WHO WERE BEHEADED WILL JOIN THE BRIDE AND GROOM FOR BATTLE


RAPTURE (CLOUDS) = UP = ASCENSION = 1ST TRUMP

2ND COMING IN POWER = DOWN = DESCENSION = 7TH TRUMP


THEY ARE ALL CLEARLY STATED AND MADE KNOWN
IN FACT
AS YOU PUT IT
ONLY THE INSANE
CAN'T SEE THAT GOD WON'T ALLOW HIS BRIDE TO SUFFER WITH THE SINNERS
FOR
THERE WOULD BE NO GLORY OF GOD FOR THAT
IT IS
JUST
AN LUNATIC INSANELY IDEA
TO THINK THE BRIDE THE REMAINING CHOSEN
WILL SUFFER GODS WRATH SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE SINNERS THAT DESERVE IT
THERE IS NO GLORY FOR GOD IN THAT
OR
JUSTIFICATION
 
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
0
55
In vs. 16 & 17, can you explain how you understand the dead in christ to be the bride. I always thought the bride to be ALL of christ's followers. So this diputes a division that the rapture suggests...


UMMMMM

IF YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS
AND DIE TONIGHT
YOU ARE STILL CONSIDERED A BELIEVER
AND A BELIEVER IS CLASSIFIED AS " THE BRIDE "
WHICH IN THIS CASE IS THE DESERVED ONES
TO BE RAPTURED
AND THEN ANOTHER CLASSIFICATION
INCLUDES THOSE STILL LIVING AND BREATHING AT THIS TIME
THAT TRULLY ARE BELIEVERS OF GOD

THE BRIDE IS SEPARATED FROM THOSE WHO DIE IN TRIBULATION
BECAUSE THEY CHOSE NOT TO BELIEVE AND OBEY GOD
SO THEY WILL SUFFER
BUT DURING THAT SUFFERING IF THEY CHOOSE JESUS AND TRULLY BELIEVE
THEY WILL BE BEHEADED AS A MARTYR
AND THEN WILL BECOME A PART OF GODS KINGDOM
 
M

miktre

Guest
NOT at all


The CATCHING AWAY is for the BRIDE (WE WILL BE AT THE MARRIAGE SUPPER WHILE THE WRATH OF GOD WILL BE ON EARTH)
Marriage supper isn't until after the 1000 years, way off.

JESUS WILL BE IN THE CLOUDS FOR THIS TO MEET HIS BRIDE THEN TAKE US TO HIS FATHERS HOUSE AS SCRIPTURE REVEALS
I've never seen that scripture which verse was that exactly?????


The TAKING UP's is for the
2 WITNESSES
the 144,000
BEHEADED of TRIBULATION (THESE WILL BE TRANSFORMED IMMEDIATELY JUST AS SCRIPTURE CONVEYS TO BE PART OF THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON)
JESUS WILL BE DESCENDING DOWN TO EARTH WITH HIS BRIDE FOR BATTLE AND THOSE WHO WERE BEHEADED WILL JOIN THE BRIDE AND GROOM FOR BATTLE


RAPTURE (CLOUDS) = UP = ASCENSION = 1ST TRUMP

2ND COMING IN POWER = DOWN = DESCENSION = 7TH TRUMP


THEY ARE ALL CLEARLY STATED AND MADE KNOWN
IN FACT
AS YOU PUT IT
ONLY THE INSANE
CAN'T SEE THAT GOD WON'T ALLOW HIS BRIDE TO SUFFER WITH THE SINNERS
FOR
THERE WOULD BE NO GLORY OF GOD FOR THAT
IT IS
JUST
AN LUNATIC INSANELY IDEA
TO THINK THE BRIDE THE REMAINING CHOSEN
WILL SUFFER GODS WRATH SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE SINNERS THAT DESERVE IT
THERE IS NO GLORY FOR GOD IN THAT
OR
JUSTIFICATION
It clearly states the last trump there can't be two last trumps, just like there can't be two first resurrections.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
actually, no they didn't.

Hippolytus taught futurism... not historicism.

Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 27,28
"As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image
are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth
beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little
more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal
survey. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the
Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented
the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard,
meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander’s time; the
legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans,
who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part
clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of the kingdoms that
are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the
Antichrist in their midst; the stone that smites the earth and brings
judgment upon the world was Christ."

rergardless of them being futurist or historicist or postmillennialist, they still taught the most important lesson that post-tribulation teaches today: endurance and perseverance through tribulation... not some escapist fantasy before facing tribulation, as pre-tribulation and dispensationalism teaches. The doctrine of these teachers have more credibility than your doctrine, because what they taught has been carried out and taught all throughout history...

it's seen within the early teachings of Catholicism
within the teachings of orthodoxy
within the teachings of the Protestant Reformers... that was when you got your Historcist viewpoint. it was the Protestant Reformers that believed the pope was Antichrist, and the Roman Catholic Church was the was the whore of Babylon.

your pre-trib doctrine has utterly no foundation whatsoever in the entire history of the church prior to 1827, when Edward Irving began to teach it in his Catholic-Apostolic church in Scotland.

YES, they believed in a taking up of the church... SO DO I.
however, they also believed they would suffer at the hands of Antichrist before the glorious appearing of Jesus Christ...

they also believed in the Six Day Theory, which says that a thousand years on earth is like a day to God in Heaven... it teaches that we would be on earth for 6,000 years before Jesus Christ would return. Commodianus, Irenaeus, Cyprian, Methodius, Lactantius, and Theophilus taught this... they knew they would be on this earth for the reign of Antichrist, and as such, they continued to teach perseverance and endurance.

they never taught an imminent return, as pre-trib does today... they taught expectancy.
your man-made doctrine holds no ground whatsoever against the teachings of Christ.
Your posting says nothing to the point. They believed that they were suffering at the hand of the AntiChrist. Your belief system is no older than joint-heirs. The early church fathers believed that Jesus would return before they died, is that imminent enough. It is pointless to argue with a stone. I suppose you would say the same thing so lets go on to fruitful endevours.
 
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0
Your posting says nothing to the point. They believed that they were suffering at the hand of the AntiChrist. Your belief system is no older than joint-heirs. The early church fathers believed that Jesus would return before they died, is that imminent enough. It is pointless to argue with a stone. I suppose you would say the same thing so lets go on to fruitful endevours.
yes it is older.

I've already given you hard proof that they were FUTURISTS... NOT historicists... it's not my fault you're too arrogant to read it for yourself, and it's nt my fault that you would rather listen to a lie than hear the truth.

the first century compared to the nineteenth century... you can do the math yourself... you can even do the research for yourself as well.
you just simply too proud to admit that what you and joint-heir preach and teach is new. You have given me your opinion. I have provided not only historical evidence, but scriptural evidence and Biblical fact to back it up... you havent. the Word of God will stand strong. The word of man will not.

you have no proof of the existence of a pre-trib rapture being taught in the time during the apostles or after the apostles.
Post-tribulation does have proof... and not only that, it's backed by scripture. Your doctrine isn't.

yes, let's go on to fruitful endeavors... like letting go of a lie, and accepting the truth that's right in your face.
 
Last edited:
Dec 21, 2009
538
1
0
55
NOT at all


The CATCHING AWAY is for the BRIDE (WE WILL BE AT THE MARRIAGE SUPPER WHILE THE WRATH OF GOD WILL BE ON EARTH)

FROM MIKTRE
Marriage supper isn't until after the 1000 years, way off. <<<WRONG

FROM JOINT-HEIR
THE MARRIAGE SUPPER IS FOR THE ELECT
THOSE SINNERS SUFFERING DURING TRIBULATION ARE NOT THE ELECT
NEW JERUSALEM IS THE MILLENEUM IS NOT THE MARRIAGE SUPPER
IT IS AN EARTHLY REALM UNTIL GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT TAKES PLACE
THEN
THIS EARTH AND HEAVEN WILL BE REPLACED LIKE IT IS WRITTEN
THE BEHEADED SAINTS WILL MISS THE MARRIAGE SUPPER
FOR THIS WILL TAKE PLACE DURING TRIBULATION


JESUS WILL BE IN THE CLOUDS FOR THIS TO MEET HIS BRIDE THEN TAKE US TO HIS FATHERS HOUSE AS SCRIPTURE REVEALS

FROM MIKTRE
I've never seen that scripture which verse was that exactly?????

FROM JOINT-HEIR
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17 (17) IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR
WHICH
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17 = RAPTURE
AND
1 THESSALONIANS 5:3 = DAY OF THE LORD
PROVES THESE ARE 2 SEPARATE EVENTS


The TAKING UP's is for the
2 WITNESSES
the 144,000
BEHEADED of TRIBULATION (THESE WILL BE TRANSFORMED IMMEDIATELY JUST AS SCRIPTURE CONVEYS TO BE PART OF THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON)
JESUS WILL BE DESCENDING DOWN TO EARTH WITH HIS BRIDE FOR BATTLE AND THOSE WHO WERE BEHEADED WILL JOIN THE BRIDE AND GROOM FOR BATTLE


RAPTURE (CLOUDS) = UP = ASCENSION = 1ST TRUMP

2ND COMING IN POWER = DOWN = DESCENSION = 7TH TRUMP


THEY ARE ALL CLEARLY STATED AND MADE KNOWN
IN FACT
AS YOU PUT IT
ONLY THE INSANE
CAN'T SEE THAT GOD WON'T ALLOW HIS BRIDE TO SUFFER WITH THE SINNERS
FOR
THERE WOULD BE NO GLORY OF GOD FOR THAT
IT IS
JUST
AN LUNATIC INSANELY IDEA
TO THINK THE BRIDE THE REMAINING CHOSEN
WILL SUFFER GODS WRATH SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE SINNERS THAT DESERVE IT
THERE IS NO GLORY FOR GOD IN THAT
OR
JUSTIFICATION

FROM MIKTRE
It clearly states the last trump there can't be two last trumps, just like there can't be two first resurrections.

FROM JOINT-HEIR
THERE WILL NOT BE 2 LAST TRUMPS ONLY 1
IT SAYS
IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE IN 1 CORINTHIANS 15:52
SO YOU DONT THINK IN THE SPAN OF GOD CALLING THE MARTYRED BEHEADED SAINTS TO BE WITH HIM IN A SPLIT SECOND
AND HE TRANSFORMS THEIR BODIES THAT HE CANT DO THAT AND DESCEND UPON EARTH FOR BATTLE DURING ARMAGEDDON?
ACTUALLY, THAT IS PERFECT BECAUSE GOD WILL CATCH SATAN BY SURPRISE ANYWAYS THIS JUST CONFIRMS SCRIPTURE EVER MORE SO..........
 
Jan 14, 2010
1,010
5
0


There's another point for the pterists. They were not mistaken either.
yeah, except scripture was written for those who think god is done with Israel...

Jeremiah 31:35-37
35 Thus says the LORD,who gives the sun for light by day
and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
the LORD of hosts is his name:

36 "If this fixed order departs
from before me, declares the LORD,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
from being a nation before me forever."

37 Thus says the LORD:"If the heavens above can be measured,
and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel
for all that they have done,

declares the LORD."
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
Trumpets in heaven??? You must be joking, right? What in the heck are the trumpets for??? Trumps in heaven??? heresy. They are for us to heed the call! What an outright disregard for the scripture, you corrupt even the simplest of teachings. How can you so willingly teach this is beyond me. The trumpets are for our benefit and you want to rob ordinary Christians of that. Tisk, tisk. Bible says plain as day it's the LAST TRUMP and to let us know and you even want to twist that.Anybody with any sense knows the last trump is the seventh. So simple.[/quote
You horror is noted. No trumpets in heaven then. We can have trombones, but no trumps. lol. And you love the word heresy, so everytime that you get a little hot, you make your papal annuciation. I want to rob ordinary Christians of what? What you cannot win by logic you will seize by rhetoric.
 
M

miktre

Guest
FROM MIKTRE
I've never seen that scripture which verse was that exactly?????

FROM JOINT-HEIR
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17 (17) IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR


WHICH
1 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17 = RAPTURE
AND
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 THESSALONIANS 5:3 = DAY OF THE LORD
PROVES THESE ARE 2 SEPARATE EVENTS
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Proves nothing still drawing for straws. Not even talking about the church here.

The TAKING UP's is for the
2 WITNESSES
the 144,000
BEHEADED of TRIBULATION (THESE WILL BE TRANSFORMED IMMEDIATELY JUST AS SCRIPTURE CONVEYS TO BE PART OF THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON)
JESUS WILL BE DESCENDING DOWN TO EARTH WITH HIS BRIDE FOR BATTLE AND THOSE WHO WERE BEHEADED WILL JOIN THE BRIDE AND GROOM FOR BATTLE


RAPTURE (CLOUDS) = UP = ASCENSION = 1ST TRUMP

2ND COMING IN POWER = DOWN = DESCENSION = 7TH TRUMP


THEY ARE ALL CLEARLY STATED AND MADE KNOWN
IN FACT
AS YOU PUT IT
ONLY THE INSANE
CAN'T SEE THAT GOD WON'T ALLOW HIS BRIDE TO SUFFER WITH THE SINNERS
FOR
THERE WOULD BE NO GLORY OF GOD FOR THAT
IT IS
JUST
AN LUNATIC INSANELY IDEA
TO THINK THE BRIDE THE REMAINING CHOSEN
WILL SUFFER GODS WRATH SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE SINNERS THAT DESERVE IT
THERE IS NO GLORY FOR GOD IN THAT
OR
JUSTIFICATION

FROM MIKTRE
It clearly states the last trump there can't be two last trumps, just like there can't be two first resurrections.

FROM JOINT-HEIR
THERE WILL NOT BE 2 LAST TRUMPS ONLY 1
IT SAYS
IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE IN 1 CORINTHIANS 15:52
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Very good the LAST TRUMP plain and simple

SO YOU DONT THINK IN THE SPAN OF GOD CALLING THE MARTYRED BEHEADED SAINTS TO BE WITH HIM IN A SPLIT SECOND
AND HE TRANSFORMS THEIR BODIES THAT HE CANT DO THAT AND DESCEND UPON EARTH FOR BATTLE DURING ARMAGEDDON?
ACTUALLY, THAT IS PERFECT BECAUSE GOD WILL CATCH SATAN BY SURPRISE ANYWAYS THIS JUST CONFIRMS SCRIPTURE EVER MORE SO..........
It will catch those who have been taught rapture also.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
pretrib and logic don't go together in the same sentence. Well not after watching left behind series.