Dont judge

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K

KennethC

Guest
#61
#61
Willie-T said:
We were never even discussing "back in the fold". I told you we have our doors open to anyone who feels a need to walk through them.
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That is fine as I don't have an issue with that as we are to accept everybody no matter what they have done.

What I was speaking on though is after they have come through those doors and become part of the congregation, if they then from there continue to refuse to give up their sinful ways after the steps in the bible have been taken to call them out and help correct them in their ways then we are told to cast them out and not associate with them unless they repent.

You came back using the 7 x 70 passage, which is speaking on if they come back and each time say they have repented then you are to accept them. It is not saying to accept them back even if they haven't repented.

There is a difference in forgiving a person and keeping a person out of the congregation who's sinful ways could lead others to stumble and return to sinful lifestyles as well thinking it is acceptable. For the purpose in those passages is to not let the congregation in your church think it is acceptable to continue to be sinful !!!
 
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Elin

Banned
#62
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#62
Justifiedgirl said:
Which was a point i tried to make ....
@kenneth

Probably Said it in a way i shouldnt have though

I need to be careful of my words here i see....
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Keeping in mind that the NT word of God tells us
to judge sin in the assembly,
to judge doctrine and
to judge (test) the spirits.

Christians are to judge, but they are not to judge anyone's heart.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#63
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
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#63
KennethC said:
That is fine as I don't have an issue with that as we are to accept everybody no matter what they have done.

What I was speaking on though is after they have come through those doors and become part of the congregation, if they then from there continue to refuse to give up their sinful ways after the steps in the bible have been taken to call them out and help correct them in their ways then we are told to cast them out and not associate with them unless they repent.

You came back using the 7 x 70 passage, which is speaking on if they come back and each time say they have repented then you are to accept them. It is not saying to accept them back even if they haven't repented.

There is a difference in forgiving a person and keeping a person out of the congregation who's sinful ways could lead others to stumble and return to sinful lifestyles as well thinking it is acceptable. For the purpose in those passages is to not let the congregation in your church think it is acceptable to continue to be sinful !!!
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What kind of an idiot would come sit in a church, listening to stuff they didn't believe in when they could be out doing all this sin you seem to think everyone else is slobbering at the mouth to do?

If I didn't want to be with Christians, enjoying God and His people, I would be out fishing on Sunday.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#64
#64
Elin said:
Keeping in mind that the NT word of God tells us
to judge sin in the assembly,
to judge doctrine and
to judge (test) the spirits.

Christians are to judge, but they are not to judge anyone's heart.
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We are told not to judge anything before the Lord returns.................1 Corinthians 4:5

There is a big difference in judging and rebuking and reproving !!!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#65
#65
Willie-T said:
What kind of an idiot would come sit in a church, listening to stuff they didn't believe in when they could be out doing all this sin you seem to think everyone else is slobbering at the mouth to do?

If I didn't want to be with Christians, enjoying God and His people, I would be out fishing on Sunday.
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Because there are people out there who do believe they don't have to change and can live however they want.

They believe as long as they pray, believe the Lord existed, and go to church on Saturday or Sunday they are saved.....

That however is not what the bible actually teaches as it says that those who continue to walk in lawlessness, sinful, and continue to be disobedient to His teachings will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
 
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Elin

Banned
#66
Jan 19, 2013
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#66
kaylagrl said:
I think there is a problem that comes with a misunderstanding of this verse.And I think you may have this misunderstanding. Christians do not know the difference between judging and discernment. To judge or condemn someone is beyond our power,only God has the final word on who will go to heaven or hell. Now discernment means seeing wrong or evil and speaking the truth about it to someone who has lost their way. This verse is thrown out as soon as the subject of homosexuality comes up. Its not judging a homosexual to say what they are doing is wrong.I bring up that sin because that is the one I hear attached to the "judge not" scripture. Judge not has become a catch all verse to defend peoples right to live however they want to. Its an itching ears gospel.Lets not offend anyone.Jesus said he was a stumbling block.We need to be offended,we need to be convicted.I know I do.
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Our job is to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable.:)
 
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Elin

Banned
#67
Jan 19, 2013
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#67
realchild4life said:
von1 said:
I have heard the saying you can't judge a book by its cover. Sometimes people look more at whats on the outside than the inside.
Gods looks at the inside of our heart and that is all that really matters.
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Why does every Christian say that?
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Because the Bible says it.

And because that is where conversion takes place.
Only God knows if one's heart is truly converted (reborn) or not.
 
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Elin

Banned
#68
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#68
realchild4life said:
I doubt that Tintin, in the end they all know how and when to say it for some reason.
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That is what only God can judge and what a Christian is not allowed to judge.

When the subject of judging comes up, that is the sum total of Biblical teaching on the subject, and is the response you can expect a Christian to make.
 
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Elin

Banned
#69
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#69
realchild4life said:
It has it's own language which us non believers call christianese, but
unless you step outside your club you'll never see how you sound.
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Oh dear. . .a lot of us were born and raised outside the "club."

We know exactly how we sound, it sounded that way to us once upon a time.
 
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Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#70
#70
KennethC said:
Because there are people out there who do believe they don't have to change and can live however they want.

They believe as long as they pray, believe the Lord existed, and go to church on Saturday or Sunday they are saved.....

That however is not what the bible actually teaches as it says that those who continue to walk in lawlessness, sinful, and continue to be disobedient to His teachings will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
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Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

- Matthew 7:21
 
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Elin

Banned
#71
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#71
Tintin said:
I'm familiar with the term Christianese. And yes, I know how it sounds. Christians should avoid Christianese where possible, but the reality is that the Christian faith won't be understood by non-believers, unless Holy Spirit opens their eyes to the truth. Besides, I don't just hang out with Christians.
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However, I will never avoid "Christianese," it is the language of God's powerful word (1Co 2:2-4).
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#72
#72
Brother_J_BELGIUM said:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

- Matthew 7:21
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Yes those people mentioned in Matthew 7:21 thought they were saved and even did some things in His name such as cast out demons, but they also continued to live sinful lives as well not giving up their old self.

They thought they could serve both the Lord and serve their flesh as well, they found out differently !!!
 
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Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#73
#73
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
- Matthew 7:1-2,4

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
- John 7:24

Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
- 1 Timothy 5:20

Who disagrees?
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#74
#74
Brother_J_BELGIUM said:
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
- Matthew 7:1-2,4

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
- John 7:24

Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
- 1 Timothy 5:20

Who disagrees?
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Nobody should disagree with those quotes, but the only issue I have is that some do not seem to know how to use righteous judgment correctly.

I have seen some on here that take and belittle, demean, get sarcastic with others, and even go as far as condemn others for disagreeing with them. None of this is righteous judgment, but instead is the kind of judgment that will come back on them when they stand before the Lord.

Righteous judgment is when you take a fellow brother or sister in the faith and call them out for how they are walking improperly so that you can help them in love and by the word of God to change how they are acting. If they refuse to listen to and then to others of the faith they are to be cast aside and shunned by us to make them look at themselves closer so that it will hopefully then lead them to repent.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#75
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#75
KennethC said:
That is fine as I don't have an issue with that as we are to accept everybody no matter what they have done.

What I was speaking on though is after they have come through those doors and become part of the congregation, if they then from there continue to refuse to give up their sinful ways after the steps in the bible have been taken to call them out and help correct them in their ways then we are told to cast them out and not associate with them unless they repent.

You came back using the 7 x 70 passage, which is speaking on if they come back and each time say they have repented then you are to accept them. It is not saying to accept them back even if they haven't repented.

There is a difference in forgiving a person and keeping a person out of the congregation who's sinful ways could lead others to stumble and return to sinful lifestyles as well thinking it is acceptable.
For the purpose in those passages is to not let the congregation in your church think it is acceptable to continue to be sinful !!!
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Its purpose is also to protect the congregation from the contagion of sin.

There is a Biblical issue with the acceptance of sin in the body of believers.

Sin is contagious, defiles its host and easily spreads to others, which was symbolized in the OT regulations where one's ceremonial defilement/uncleanness made unclean everything one touched, and everything that touhed what one touched was made unclean.

In the NT, sin is to be expelled from the body of believers, it is not to be tolerated (1Co 5:9-13; 1Tim 5:20).

These things must be kept in mind when allowing the unrepentant to remain in the fellowship.
Or perhaps attrition takes care of the problem in time.

But Biblically, it is a spiritually dangerous situation that should be closely and carefully monitored.
 
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K

KennethC

Guest
#76
#76
Elin said:
Its purpose is also to protect the congregation from the contagion of sin.

There is a Biblical issue with the acceptance of sin in the body of believers.

Sin is contagious, defiles its host and easily spreads to others, which was symbolized in the OT regulations where one's ceremonial defilement/uncleanness made unclean everything one touched, and everything that touhed what one touched was made unclean.

In the NT, sin is to be expelled from the body of believers, it is not to be tolerated (1Co 5:9-13; 1Tim 5:20).

These things must be kept in mind when allowing the unrepentant to remain in the fellowship.
Or perhaps attrition takes care of the problem in time.

But Biblically, it is a spiritually dangerous situation that should be closely and carefully monitored.
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Yes I totally agree with you here as that is what I was saying and showing.

As there is a big difference in welcoming somebody to the faith for the first time, and then allowing them to remain sinful after they have become part of the congregation.

We are all to be welcomed no matter what kind of sin we have done in the past, and nobody is to be turned away from coming to the Lord. Which this is sad because I do see some churches today that do turn people away depending on what type of sin they have committed in the past.

Once that person is accepted and welcomed in by love and God's word they are to be shown how to turn from those sinful ways, and if they refuse all help and continue to walk in their sins the bible clearly says they are to be cast away before they lead others astray by their example.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#77
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#77
KennethC said:
We are told not to judge anything before the Lord returns.................1 Corinthians 4:5
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Which is then explained as the motives of men's hearts.

Keeping in mind the NT tells us we are to judge
doctrine,
spirits,
and open sin in the congregation.

But we are not to judge the motive of others' hearts.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#78
#78
Elin said:
Which is then explained as the motives of men's hearts.

Keeping in mind the NT tells us we are to judge
doctrine,
spirits,
and open sin in the congregation.

But we are not to judge the motive of others' hearts.
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Yes but like I said in post #74 we need to keep a close watch on ourselves to make sure we are using righteous judgment and not misusing how we are to judge.

Because that judgment has to come to those who have been mislead in the word of God, and we by love and God's word are to show them by scripture the full truth in the word. I see to many walking around with only partial truth or completely flip-flop scriptures to make them fit a man made doctrine.

I by the Holy Spirit's guidance try and fill in the other part of the truth to let others see the whole picture, or show others how they are flip-flopping the verses or rearranging the order of events in the faith. It is a hard fight in the faith because of how the word itself says false teachings will blind others to the truth in His word.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#79
#79
Justifiedgirl said:
Potty mouth? I didnt curse at all. I put arse so that i wouldnt curse ....next time i can just put the actual word if its fowl language either way
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That word would be considered swearing in a Christian forum,and elsewhere for that matter.But certainly it is in here.
 
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Brother_J_BELGIUM

Guest
#80
#80
KennethC said:
Nobody should disagree with those quotes, but the only issue I have is that some do not seem to know how to use righteous judgment correctly.

I have seen some on here that take and belittle, demean, get sarcastic with others, and even go as far as condemn others for disagreeing with them. None of this is righteous judgment, but instead is the kind of judgment that will come back on them when they stand before the Lord.

Righteous judgment is when you take a fellow brother or sister in the faith and call them out for how they are walking improperly so that you can help them in love and by the word of God to change how they are acting. If they refuse to listen to and then to others of the faith they are to be cast aside and shunned by us to make them look at themselves closer so that it will hopefully then lead them to repent.
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I fully agree! We have to do it with love. As a wise Dutch saying says: "He is firm, but fair." We ought to be like that. Point out the mistakes and admonish them in love where they were wrong and tell them we are all sinners and need to confess our sins and we are not ought to be saying "hey, don't you judge me" because the other will say "hey, I only did it because I love you and I don't want you to sin, I'd be happy if you warned me too when I have sinned so we can help each other to be right with the Lord at all times".
 
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