Gentiles

[jaybird88]

Wasn't the rainbow covenant a promise that God would never again destroy the earth with a flood such as Noah and his family experienced?

And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. Genesis 9:11

As I stated in a previous post,(this one) the descendants of Noah (after God's Judgment on Babel) where known as Gentiles because of diverse languages. Genesis 10:1-5

yes i think your right, like i said i was going by memory. the rainbow cov has to do with no more floods. laws of Noah was what i was thinking. its all in the same passage i think and it all deals with Noah so i got a little mixed up. thats normal for me.

 

[prove-all]

Wasn't the rainbow covenant a promise that God would never again destroy the earth with a flood such as Noah and his family experienced?



And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. Genesis 9:11

Genesis 9:13-16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

As I stated in a previous post,(this one) the descendants of Noah (after God's Judgment on Babel) where known as Gentiles because of diverse languages. Genesis 10:1-5

I was going off of this question "I thought the rainbow covenant of Noah"

everyone decendended from Noahs boys yes, bow was for every creature lived since.

I am not trying to arguing over when man labeled a gential.

 

[just-me]

the Noachide laws was what i was referring to. i think of them as the rainbow covenant of Noah. im just going by memory.

That's cool. You just were used as God's instrument for my edification. Thanks. I never related any covenant with laws other than Israel. LOL I pray every day that God will enlighten me by His Word and indwelling Spirit. The more I learn, the more I know I don't know very much about His greatness, and foreknowledge.

 

[prove-all]

Therefore, the Jews are not grafted into the Gentile Church, but the Gentiles are grafted into Christ via the Jews. Many have this backwards, but the Bible says what it says, and I'm sure I will get flack over this one and accused of promoting the HRM which I certainly am not a part of. I'm just promoting the Bible documentation, and the history from my KJV.

all the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong sole to Israel
(Romans 9:4).

 

[just-me]

I was going off of this question "I thought the rainbow covenant of Noah"

everyone decendended from Noahs boys yes, bow was for every creature lived since.

I am not trying to arguing over when man labeled a gential.

I understand. I think it boils down to why did God plan 2 separate groups of people to be one in His kingdom, and how is it supposed to come to pass? The Jew first and also to the gentile as Paul said.

Some really don't know now that the house of Ephraim is related to Gentiles. There is a dispute over how Paul received revelation before the Jews, classifying him as a Gentile. Get a load of this post in a different thread I started.

 

[jaybird88]

Some really don't know now that the house of Ephraim is related to Gentiles. There is a dispute over how Paul received revelation before the Jews, classifying him as a Gentile. Get a load of this post in a different thread I started.

do we have a thread about the Ephraim Gentile connection? that would be fun.

 

[prove-all]

future verse shows that the 2 kingdoms are not together yet.

16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it,
For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions:

then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim,
and for all the house of Israel his companions:


17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.


When Judah returned from babylon captivety, they became "the children of Israel"
but Jews never where called [the house] of Israel , even though now live in the [state] of Israel

 

[just-me]

do we have a thread about the Ephraim Gentile connection? that would be fun.

I have mentioned it in the past on different threads. There is an old testament prophecy that I can think of.

Ezekiel 37:16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Ephesians 3:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

see Jeremiah 46

 

[just-me]

do we have a thread about the Ephraim Gentile connection? that would be fun.

When Ephraim and Manasseh are seen as Old Testament representations of Gentile and Jew, we need to see the list of tribes of the 144,000 as having significance. Ephraim is not mentioned, and Joseph takes Ephraim's place.

Revelation 7:5-8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

 

[jaybird88]

I have mentioned it in the past on different threads. There is an old testament prophecy that I can think of.

Ezekiel 37:16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Ephesians 3:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

see Jeremiah 46

i remember studying Ephraim a few years back and the blessings of Jacob. many believe the Celts may have descended from Ephraim. the early Celts had many Jewish customs. the Celts would spawn most of the early kingdoms of Europe, they would become nations and even set up nations across the Atlantic in the west.

 

[just-me]

i remember studying Ephraim a few years back and the blessings of Jacob. many believe the Celts may have descended from Ephraim. the early Celts had many Jewish customs. the Celts would spawn most of the early kingdoms of Europe, they would become nations and even set up nations across the Atlantic in the west.

I've read that also, but I have reservation relating Manasseh and Ephraim to England and America. LOL

Nevertheless, I think that Celts do apply, and their pagan practices relate very will with what the house of Ephraim (the lost 10 tribes) practiced, causing God to judge them in the way He did.

 

[jaybird88]

When Ephraim and Manasseh are seen as Old Testament representations of Gentile and Jew, we need to see the list of tribes of the 144,000 as having significance. Ephraim is not mentioned, and Joseph takes Ephraim's place.

Revelation 7:5-8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

you have a theory on why Ephraim would be left out?

I've read that also, but I have reservation relating Manasseh and Ephraim to England and America. LOL

Nevertheless, I think that Celts do apply, and their pagan practices relate very will with what the house of Ephraim (the lost 10 tribes) practiced, causing God to judge them in the way He did.

if the Celts were connected to Israel it looks like they fell from it. by the time you get out of the dark ages the Jewish customs have mostly disappeared.

 

[just-me]

you have a theory on why Ephraim would be left out?


if the Celts were connected to Israel it looks like they fell from it. by the time you get out of the dark ages the Jewish customs have mostly disappeared.

The "house of Ephraim" adopted the doctrine of Balaam by worshiping other god's like molech and asheroth. The Celts would have continued in that practice, and probably expanded on it. You can include the Vikings, Saxons and Normans in that also.

I think Ephraim is excluded from the 144,000 because they represent the offspring of intermarriage with Gentiles, henceforth actually being classified as Gentiles in the long run. Therefore, Ephraim and Judah in Ezekiel 37:16-19 are actually Jews and Gentiles that Paul describes.

Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Romans 3:29

 

[jaybird88]

The "house of Ephraim" adopted the doctrine of Balaam by worshiping other god's like molech and asheroth. The Celts would have continued in that practice, and probably expanded on it. You can include the Vikings, Saxons and Normans in that also.

I think Ephraim is excluded from the 144,000 because they represent the offspring of intermarriage with Gentiles, henceforth actually being classified as Gentiles in the long run. Therefore, Ephraim and Judah in Ezekiel 37:16-19 are actually Jews and Gentiles that Paul describes.

Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Romans 3:29

i agree and also believe that many of our global leaders today are very deep in doctrine of Balaam or what i refer to as the Canaanite belief system. why else would everything recently seem to be running so fast into evil. these leaders making these decisions, setting this agenda are not crazy, they are doing exactly what they want. and they are trying to drag everyone else with em. i dont ant to go.

 

[crossnote]

Gentile is first mentioned after the flood in Genesis Chapter 10. Up until the tower of Babel, all people spoke the same language. As I said Abraham was noted as a Hebrew because of the language he spoke. Before the flood there was no classification of diverse nations and sects that I can see in the Bible, and IMO they all spoke the same language. The Bible doesn't indicate people didn't understand each other before the flood of Noah. According to the Bible, language is also connected to the term "Gentile" after Babel including the Hebrew of Abraham.

Before this following scripture, there is no mention of "Gentile." Note that this scripture relates the term "Gentile" with "language", being post flood. It would be like me saying that there was no England, Germany, or Spain until their language came into existence, only as an example.

Genesis 10:1-5
1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

You know this.

ESV translates it as "Coastlands people".

From these the coastland peoples spread in their lands, each with his own language, by their clans, in their nations.
(Gen 10:5) ESV

from whom the coastal peoples spread into their own lands and nations, each with their own language and family groups.
(Gen 10:5) ISV

From these were the islands of the nations divided in their lands, every man according to his tongue, according to their families, in their nations.
(Gen 10:5) ACV

From these the coastland peoples spread out through their lands, each according to his own language by their own families, in their nations.
(Gen 10:5) LEB

I think the word "Gentile" in this context is in the minority.

 

[crossnote]

yes i think your right, like i said i was going by memory. the rainbow cov has to do with no more floods. laws of Noah was what i was thinking. its all in the same passage i think and it all deals with Noah so i got a little mixed up. thats normal for me.

Going by memory? Hmm, that didn't serve Eve too well.

 

[just-me]

ESV translates it as "Coastlands people".

From these the coastland peoples spread in their lands, each with his own language, by their clans, in their nations.
(Gen 10:5) ESV

from whom the coastal peoples spread into their own lands and nations, each with their own language and family groups.
(Gen 10:5) ISV

From these were the islands of the nations divided in their lands, every man according to his tongue, according to their families, in their nations.
(Gen 10:5) ACV

From these the coastland peoples spread out through their lands, each according to his own language by their own families, in their nations.
(Gen 10:5) LEB

I think the word "Gentile" in this context is in the minority.

Sometimes a person has to go back to the original language to determine what the writer was defining.
Genesis 10:5 in Hebrew, reading right to left.....
מאלה נפרדו איי **הגוים, בארצתם, איש, ללשנו--למשפחתם,*בגויהם
Island nations separately, in their groups, one Linguistics - their families, within (encompassing) Goyim.

בגויהם* = House Gentile water = “In Goihm” (Go-yim) corresponding to the Greek word “ethnos” where we get the word ethnicity, or ethnic. This Hebrew word can mean “nation” “pagan” “non-Jew.” “Goy is translated as “heathen.”

הגוים** = The nations water (water indicating separation, or divided)

KJV reads “By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.”

Both “Gentile” and “Nations” mentioned above, we have within them ( גוי ) That is singularly for “Gentile.”

Looking “Gentile” up in the Strong's Concordance, Gentile and nations are both the same.

1471 ( גוי ) gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people

To this day "Goyim" is spoken as a term to classify a people who aren't Jewish. we are Goyim. "Goy" is a Jewish name for a non-Jew. Add the "im" and it becomes plural.

 

[just-me]

One more thing that I thought of. In the 1st book of Enoch (which isn't in the Bible) It says that Abram (Abraham) devoted much of His time in his early years to restore the language of Shem, people then began to classify/define him as a Hebrew. I think the ancient Roman Catholics chose not to put the writings of Enoch in the 2nd Septuagint translated in AD. From the second century AD onward, the Greek Septuagint itself needed to be translated for readers who did not know Greek.

"one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew..." See Genesis 14:13 This is the first mention of the "Hebrew" in the Bible.

The term "Hebrew Tongue" is not in the OT, so it seems that ethnic groups were known only by the language they spoke in ancient times. Hebrew then is definitive, and Gentile incorporates all languages combined, as it seems.

 

[just-me]

Rav Shaul/Paul wasn't a Gentile.

If Paul (as he spoke of himself) was a Gentile, then he couldn't be a Jew at the same time, for he clearly defines the difference in His writings and also claim himself to be a Jew.

"But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people." Acts 21:39

Rome, of course was a Gentile nation, but just because one is a citizen of a Gentile town located in a Roman province doesn't change the persons ethnicity. He also claims to be a citizen of the Roman province of Cilicia where the town of Tarsus is located. See the map above.

Paul was clearly a descendant of the tribe of Benjamin who is affiliated with Judah under the rule of the Israelite kings. The "House of Ephraim" is separate, which includes the other 10 tribes in the OT captured by the Assyrians. Judah and Benjamin were taken by the Babylonians and returned later to Jerusalem with Ezra and Nehemiah.

Paul writes of himself "Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;" Philippians 3:5

We find no family tree for Saul/Paul in the Bible, so we have to take his word for it, so in respect to what he claims of himself, his family lineage had been very attached to Pharisaic traditions and observances of the Mosaic law for generations.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, (obviously Israelites) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

There is no record in the Bible as Paul being a Gentile. Just the opposite, being called by God to minister the New Testament "mystery" to the Gentiles.

Romans 2:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[atwhatcost]

Jesus said “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” Matthew 21:43​

​

This “nation” which obviously includes Gentiles, is known as the “Kedohim” (Set Apart People, “set apart” meaning holy) who keep the Commandants of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. ​

​

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Revelation 12:17​

​

Gentiles usually met with believing Jews in the synagogues as shown in Acts 13:42; 14:1; 17:1-4; 18:4; and 19:8-10, and are equals to Jews, both in the fear of the Lord. It would seem that such basic facts would be very evident to anyone who has ever studied the Bible, but in the world of religion today, many prejudices exist between the Jews and the Gentiles due to bypassing these basics in what they, or we are taught.​

I consider myself the tribe of Japheth. Shem is the tribe of the Israelites. Shem got the tents, but we get to live in them with them. Works for me.
Gen. 9:26-27