Hebrew Roots Movement

[atwhatcost]

Actually, about a year ago I finally (because of frustration) started researching the feasts. I started comparing some Jewish websites with the information that is in my KJV. I became more frustrated because all the Jewish websites didn't compare with scripture. At that point I just got off-line and wrote a book about the spiritual aspects of 3 feasts that the Bible illustrates. In my estimation, the Jews are mixed up. They celebrate 7 feasts and the Bible classifies only 3. There is much more in respect to months and years accordingly. The civil calendar of the Jews is a half year off according to the Bible. There is a whole bunch of stuff that is so unimportant to the Jewish rituals in my estimation. I get flack from both sides. There is a feast instigated by Mordecai, the uncle of Esther. That is not a God ordained feast but it's a good story. The Bible is the only place to find the truth. Websites help, but one has to have the basics before investigating. If not, seems that people will believe anything they read. The only book or writing to trust are the scriptures. I go to find the original language in many cases because Geek doesn't always give the full concept of the original. If you desire to read the book it's on our website. It's pretty deep, but it all points toward the fulfillment of Christ Jesus in every detail.

PM me and I will send it if you desire. It's called Three Feasts of the Pentateuch

It is obvious that I am hated by a few - they follow me around from thread to thread to refute what I say. I question who they are really working for, whether consciously or unconsciously. Jewish rabbis don't want to talk to me anymore either. At least they leave me alone now.

Check out Alfred Edersheim. He's good with what it was to be Jewish before and during the time of Christ. Not sure if he hits the feast though.

I'm pretty sure the Feast of the Booths was post Pentateuch. (Seems reasonable, since why go out of your way to live in tents when you always live in tents. lol)

 

[royalscot]

I have been accused more times than I have fingers and toes of being a part of the Hebrew Roots Movement. Would some one please explain to me who they are and what they do? All I know is that they are hated by many on cc - what is going on?
I want substantial proof - I don't care about assumptions that make no sense to me.

no , no , no , etc

 

[just-me]

atwhatcost.

I am not attempting to enforce my convictions of Holy day/holiday celebrations on another including Saturday or Sunday worship services. I'm only pointing out what the Bible endorses, and some contradictions that some (I think many) religious traditions have that are not comparable with the written word of God. As far as the pope calendar is concerned, the whole world is forced into abiding by that one like it or not. Holidays can be whatever day a person wants them to be even if I believe it to be the wrong time or name but for the right reason in a persons heart. The understanding of the appointed feast sure are enlightening in a spiritual way however. I don't physically do those either, just in my heart. It's not for me to condemn another, it is only for me to judge/discern according to what is written in scripture.

 

[Elin]

Are all comments required to teach?

That's disappointing. . .

Communication is, indeed, to communicate. The only thing you seem hellbent on communicating is "I'm so much better than you are."

We got that message. No need to repeat if that's all you're tryig to say. If there was more to it, you have NOT communicated.

Perhaps someone else can help you understand. . .

 

[just-me]

Well, I'm happy about understanding the attitudes of people who posted on this thread better than before. But the clear cut definition of the HRM, I still don't know, except that I am compared to what the HRM represents by a few. Hopefully the negative posts are over, for there is no edification in purposeful animosity that seems not to be warranted IMO.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help" Psalm 146:3

I have gained more respect for some people, and some I have lost even more respect for. I respect people more, when what they say makes sense to me, and I respect people less when they argue with theories and philosophies that I have previously determined not to be in agreement with in scripture. If scripture seems to contradict itself, then we have it wrong because God's words are not wrong. I would say this analogy works both ways with all people. I just wish we could all have the same mind in Christ, who is the foundation of salvation that leads us to a sincere camaraderie with God the Father in Jesus Christ.

I cannot deny any of God's spoken word from the Torah, prophecies, Epistles, clear through, and including Revelation. I certainly don't understand the total dynamics of scripture, but what has been confirmed to me, I cannot change.

1 Thessalonians 5:15-21
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Despise not prophesyings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

[atwhatcost]

Perhaps someone else can help you understand. . .

Perhaps, but since you aren't communicating, it's unlikely someone could. I have a degree in communications, so it's not like I lack in the ability to give and receive communications. When nothing is said, there is nothing to understand. When all you do is repeat "HRM heresy" it says nothing to everyone, except about you.

 

[Elin]

Perhaps, but since you aren't communicating, it's unlikely someone could. I have a degree in communications, so it's not like I lack in the ability to give and receive communications. When nothing is said, there is nothing to understand. When all you do is repeat "HRM heresy" it says nothing to everyone, except about you.

You are receiving well what I am saying.

 

[Elin]

Well, I'm happy about understanding the attitudes of people who posted on this thread better than before. But the clear cut definition of the HRM, I still don't know, except that
I am compared to what the HRM represents by a few. Hopefully the negative posts are over, for there is no edification in purposeful animosity
that seems not to be warranted IMO.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help" Psalm 146:3

I have gained more respect for some people, and some I have lost even more respect for. I respect people more, when what they say makes sense to me, and I respect people less when they argue with
theories and philosophies that I have previously determined not to be in agreement with in scripture. If scripture seems to contradict itself, then we have it wrong because God's words are not wrong. I would say this analogy works both ways with all people. I just wish we could all have the same mind in Christ, who is the foundation of salvation that leads us to a sincere camaraderie with God the Father in Jesus Christ.

I cannot deny any of God's spoken word from the Torah, prophecies, Epistles, clear through, and including Revelation. I certainly don't understand the total dynamics of scripture, but what has been confirmed to me, I cannot change.

1 Thessalonians 5:15-21
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Despise not prophesyings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

So we are agreed that because NT Christianity takes its doctrine from Scripture, it is not tainted by ancient heretics, as the HRM claims?

And we are agreed there is no Jewish precedence in the NT people of God?

That's good to know. . .

 

[atwhatcost]

Well, I'm happy about understanding the attitudes of people who posted on this thread better than before. But the clear cut definition of the HRM, I still don't know, except that I am compared to what the HRM represents by a few. Hopefully the negative posts are over, for there is no edification in purposeful animosity that seems not to be warranted IMO.
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help" Psalm 146:3

I have gained more respect for some people, and some I have lost even more respect for. I respect people more, when what they say makes sense to me, and I respect people less when they argue with theories and philosophies that I have previously determined not to be in agreement with in scripture. If scripture seems to contradict itself, then we have it wrong because God's words are not wrong. I would say this analogy works both ways with all people. I just wish we could all have the same mind in Christ, who is the foundation of salvation that leads us to a sincere camaraderie with God the Father in Jesus Christ.

I cannot deny any of God's spoken word from the Torah, prophecies, Epistles, clear through, and including Revelation. I certainly don't understand the total dynamics of scripture, but what has been confirmed to me, I cannot change.

1 Thessalonians 5:15-21
[SUP]15 [/SUP]See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Rejoice evermore.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Quench not the Spirit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Despise not prophesyings.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

HRM is a relatively new thing. Newer to us because we're both old enough to think the Internet is a new thing. lol

HRM has only shown up in the advancing of the Internet. It's only been around for 15 to 20 years, and became a thing because of the Internet. (You can't propagate a new, unrelated theory with no base in the academia world, but you sure can pull it off until everyone thinks it really means something on the Internet.) From what I've learned it is only 15-20 years old, but I remember the Internet 20 years ago, so know it would just be on conspiracy theory bulletin boards or chat rooms back then. Those kinds of things never got any real traction until the common person learned how to make websites. Remember gaudy websites from 15-20 years ago? I picture those theories being on black background sites with those annoying neon letters and blinking doodads on the sides, so they'd still get limited exposure, (only to those who could put up with that kind of annoyance in their reading pleasure, which says something about their mental state to begin with. lol)

But then the Internet started to be studied and refined. Gone are the days of black background, neon colors and blinking doodads. (Only to be replaced by annoying, blinked ads for "secrets they don't want you to know" ads, but at least they aren't neon, and now we can adjust our screens to avoid the sidebar ads. lol) So, I'm thinking by that time the HRM thingy had just enough traction to get some hard-cores to do up webpages about that. Which means this has only been trickling in for the last 10-15 years.

BUT, there is another aspect of a new heresy that adds traction to it. The media. Once the media gets on board to pretend something is important enough to report it, then the bunk gains traction, because folks think "it must be something if NYT/The Guardina/Huffington Post are reporting it." Fertile grounds for even us older folks to buy into it. It worked for blogs. Blogs used to be little toys to play around with, while web sites were the large agents of the Internet. Now blogs are more popular for many reasons than websites, because the news media reported them like they were new things.

I understand the world of marketing a bit. I really do understand why it's hard to get a handle on what HRM means. HRM is a new born chick. The conspiracy theorists had been incubating that chick for a while. Now it is born. It's kind of like WoF back in the days when Ken Copeland first went on the air. Who would have thought how much that crap would fill the Church? And yet, even though I've never bought into, I just found out I fell for a small aspect of it.

WoF grew into a full grown animal loved by many. Back then it wasn't so easily defined. It's not even easily defined today. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means we have to be diligent, always testing our ideas, always checking the Bible, always being willing to give up an idea down the pike when we find out it wasn't quite as Biblical as we thought.

A bird has been hatched. It's a little thing now, but I suspect it grows into a hawk.

That's all I'm suggesting to you, and I say that as someone who has to do the same thing.

 

[Elin]

HRM is a relatively new thing. Newer to us because we're both old enough to think the Internet is a new thing. lol

HRM has only shown up in the advancing of the Internet. It's only been around for 15 to 20 years, and became a thing because of the Internet. (You can't propagate a new, unrelated theory with no base in the academia world, but you sure can pull it off until everyone thinks it really means something on the Internet.) From what I've learned it is only 15-20 years old, but I remember the Internet 20 years ago, so know it would just be on conspiracy theory bulletin boards or chat rooms back then. Those kinds of things never got any real traction until the common person learned how to make websites. Remember gaudy websites from 15-20 years ago? I picture those theories being on black background sites with those annoying neon letters and blinking doodads on the sides, so they'd still get limited exposure, (only to those who could put up with that kind of annoyance in their reading pleasure, which says something about their mental state to begin with. lol)

But then the Internet started to be studied and refined. Gone are the days of black background, neon colors and blinking doodads. (Only to be replaced by annoying, blinked ads for "secrets they don't want you to know" ads, but at least they aren't neon, and now we can adjust our screens to avoid the sidebar ads. lol) So, I'm thinking by that time the HRM thingy had just enough traction to get some hard-cores to do up webpages about that. Which means this has only been trickling in for the last 10-15 years.

BUT, there is another aspect of a new heresy that adds traction to it. The media. Once the media gets on board to pretend something is important enough to report it, then the bunk gains traction, because folks think "it must be something if NYT/The Guardina/Huffington Post are reporting it." Fertile grounds for even us older folks to buy into it. It worked for blogs. Blogs used to be little toys to play around with, while web sites were the large agents of the Internet. Now blogs are more popular for many reasons than websites, because the news media reported them like they were new things.

I understand the world of marketing a bit. I really do understand why it's hard to get a handle on what HRM means. HRM is a new born chick. The conspiracy theorists had been incubating that chick for a while. Now it is born. It's kind of like WoF back in the days when Ken Copeland first went on the air. Who would have thought how much that crap would fill the Church? And yet, even though I've never bought into, I just found out I fell for a small aspect of it.

WoF grew into a full grown animal loved by many. Back then it wasn't so easily defined. It's not even easily defined today. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means we have to be diligent, always testing our ideas, always checking the Bible, always being willing to give up an idea down the pike when we find out it wasn't quite as Biblical as we thought.

A bird has been hatched. It's a little thing now, but I suspect it grows into a hawk.

That's all I'm suggesting to you, and I say that as someone who has to do the same thing.

Such things can only gain traction among those who do not know their Bibles very well, or at all, for such things are contra-Biblical and seduce the uninformed.

 

[just-me]

Thanks atwhatcost.
It seems to me that I would be less likely to be labeled because of my age. Calculators were never allowed in school clear through the time I graduated, let alone computers. It's all been OJT when I had to use them at work. LOL

A "hard drive" is a 4 wheeler going up a steep muddy hill with 4 flat tires.

"USB" must mean "us bad." I wish it was a USG.

Sorry.... "MY BAD, not yours.

 

[atwhatcost]

Thanks atwhatcost.
It seems to me that I would be less likely to be labeled because of my age. Calculators were never allowed in school clear through the time I graduated, let alone computers. It's all been OJT when I had to use them at work. LOL

A "hard drive" is a 4 wheeler going up a steep muddy hill with 4 flat tires.

"USB" must mean "us bad." I wish it was a USG.

Sorry.... "MY BAD, not yours.

Yeah, but we had to learn calculators sooner or later. And then they disappeared. (Hubby and I found two old calculators while doing some spring cleaning. I even found one with a roll of paper on it from my bookkeeping days. lol) And some of that calculator training still screws me up for using the number's keyboard. (Exactly what is the purpose of "Home" on a numbers' keyboard?) So old info picked up can still be used in modern mind.

That's the problem. Let one little piece of fantasy into what we learn about God and it can haunt us for years, before we find out it is just fantasy.

Sort of like someone still trying to teach us right now that she alone has everything absolutely right. Heaven forbid, in a few years if we go off and think she does. And she, like us, might have many things right. We just happen to know one thing she's wrong about. HRM does not accept the Messiah is Jesus Christ -- God and Son of God. The true first-born who always is.

 

[just-me]

Yeah, but we had to learn calculators sooner or later. And then they disappeared. (Hubby and I found two old calculators while doing some spring cleaning. I even found one with a roll of paper on it from my bookkeeping days. lol) And some of that calculator training still screws me up for using the number's keyboard. (Exactly what is the purpose of "Home" on a numbers' keyboard?) So old info picked up can still be used in modern mind.

That's the problem. Let one little piece of fantasy into what we learn about God and it can haunt us for years, before we find out it is just fantasy.

Sort of like someone still trying to teach us right now that she alone has everything absolutely right. Heaven forbid, in a few years if we go off and think she does. And she, like us, might have many things right. We just happen to know one thing she's wrong about. HRM does not accept the Messiah is Jesus Christ -- God and Son of God. The true first-born who always is.

7 is a Biblical number representing "home" LOL
Learn the basics of the old first and then we can do the new better. Get the drift? HRM thinking maybe. Ha Ha
I know who the "someone " is, but being senile doesn't help my future. Somehow I'm actually looking forward to losing my mind because I will never know it. Have you ever stopped to think ad then forgot to start?
And a big "AMEN" to your last sentence.

 

[MarcR]

Isn't the only way a Messianic Jew still into the rituals able to do it right is to live near Jerusalem, and find someone still up to roasting goats and living in tents for a while? That may sound like I was trying to be funny, but the thing that always puzzles me with Jewish people is how do they do all those sacrifices? And, if they don't, how Jewish are they really?

Lynn,

No Messianic Jew I have ever met would consider animal sacrifice; since to do so would presuppose Jesus' sacrifice on the cross to be insufficient; and a true Messianic Jew by definition does believe that His sacrifice is sufficient.

I have met hundreds (perhaps over a thousand) true Messianic Jews; and not one of them would think of putting themselves or anyone else under Law.

It is gentile groups, calling themselves Messianic, who put themselves and try to put others under Law.

I and many other Messianic Jews keep the appointed times of Leviticus 23; not under compulsion of Law, but as a reminder of how these times depict aspects of Jesus' earthly ministry. We do not believe such observances are obligatory for any believer; but we see great value in observing them as learning tools and reminders.

 

[just-me]

I truly believe it's a travesty that so many professing Christians belonging to protestant denominations verbally reject the doctrines of the Catholic persuasion, and demand to ascribe to some of those same doctrines they say they have protested against. Then they accuse others (such as myself) who esteem all of God's word (focusing on the Torah) of promoting a false doctrine by revealing the comparison between Rome's ancient religion and the (supposedly) protesting religions of this day. I see very little difference between hypocritical Pharisees, Catholics or these types of professing Protestants these days. They all distort scripture by demanding separation between Jews and Gentiles, old against the new covenant and testaments. Is this on purpose, or do they not understand that "a house divided against itself will not stand" the test of time? (Mark 3:25)

The Pharisees hated Jesus, the Catholics hated the Jews, and the Protestants say they are not like either one, yet practice Catholic heresies and compare Torah observers to the Pharisees and the HRM, while rejecting, and distorting the same as did the Pharisees and the Catholics. What's wrong with this picture?

In addition I challenge those of you who are sincerely and willingly ready to suffer verbal abuse and persecution for Christ's sake, to define Christmas and Easter as non-Biblical, plus anything else that might be revealed as false in scripture that produces division of God's Word both Old and New. Then in addition, try spiritually defining the feasts, and Sabbaths that are Biblical, and you will certainly be labeled as a heretic by those who demand separation in the "Kingdom of God." It's in our face.

​

 

[Elin]

I truly believe it's a travesty that so many professing Christians belonging to protestant denominations verbally reject the doctrines of the Catholic persuasion, and demand to ascribe to some of those same doctrines they say they have protested against. Then they accuse others (such as myself) who esteem all of God's word (focusing on the Torah) of promoting a false doctrine by revealing the comparison between Rome's ancient religion and the (supposedly) protesting religions of this day. I see very little difference between hypocritical Pharisees, Catholics or these types of professing Protestants these days. They all distort scripture by demanding separation between Jews and Gentiles,​

Your misrepresentation of NT teaching on Jews and Gentiles is so grievous as to indicate deception--the same as those of the HRM.

old against the new covenant and testaments.

Again, your misrepresentation of NT teaching on the old covenant is so grievous as to indicate deception--the same as those of the HRM.

The old covenant was based on the law, and it cursed all those under the law.

The Mosaic (old) covenant, temporarily added to the Abrahamic covenant, has been made ancient/obsolete (Heb 8:13) and no longer operative.

Is this on purpose,

This question needs to be asked of your misrepresentation of NT teaching.

I say yes, it is on purpose, to support your contra-NT theology, as does the HRM.









​

 

[just-me]

What Kind of Disorder is Behind Someone's Creeping Stalking Behavior?

The root cause "behind this" bad behavior is spiritual and not biological; thus the fundamental difference between spiritual Dis-Orders and biological disorders. It's true that Situational and Biological Constraints can make it harder to choose the truth; still people possess agency to choose truth and reap the freedoms and blessings inseparably attached to that choice.

Spiritual Dis-Orders can be changed by choosing Truth and so-called biological disorders are CONSTRAINTS that do not ultimately block any person's ability to choose Truth. When people unwisely buy into traditional psychology's disorder paradigm, they are sold an excuse authored out of a false assumption.

Mental Disorder Behind Creepy Stalking Behavior: AskDrMatt Answers by Dr Matt Moody PhD, Social Psychologist

 

[Elin]

What Kind of Disorder is Behind Someone's Creeping Stalking Behavior?

The root cause "behind this" bad behavior is spiritual and not biological; thus the fundamental difference between spiritual Dis-Orders and biological disorders. It's true that Situational and Biological Constraints can make it harder to choose the truth; still people possess agency to choose truth and reap the freedoms and blessings inseparably attached to that choice.

Spiritual Dis-Orders can be changed by choosing Truth and so-called biological disorders are CONSTRAINTS that do not ultimately block any person's ability to choose Truth. When people unwisely buy into traditional psychology's disorder paradigm, they are sold an excuse authored out of a false assumption.

Yes, those who disagree with us do not have a psychological disorder.

But what is the cause of contra-NT beliefs?