Once saved always saved?

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KennethC said:
It is not my fine line or standard that addresses this, it is the word of God that says if a person falls away/departs from the faith to return to a deliberate sinful lifestyle or false teaching they will not return to the Lord unless they repent of those way/s.

If you are walking in deliberate/willful sin/s then you are walking by the flesh and Paul says that way leads to eternal death, and he and Jesus both say and show you can not serve both flesh (sin) and the Him (His righteousness/walk by the Spirit) both. Trying to do both is a double minded man who the bible says is unstable in all of his ways (James 1:8), Paul calls them carnally minded (Romans 7-8), and our Lord Jesus says those who try to serve both are luke warm and He will spit them out (Revelation 3:16).
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WHile driving this morning... double-minded and luke warm were the exact verses that came to me. Thing is, the double minded ARE so tossed to and fro, they absolutely DO NOT have the capacity to break free from the unholy mental marriage of the world thought and God thought. The is a prayer issue not an "reasoning" issue... you cannot "reason" with a unstable person.
Luke warm... Ken you are so patient. While the verse does say Christ will spit the lukewarm out of his mouth AND he is specifically talking TO THE CHURCH. So lets pause for a moment and consider what it means when you spit something out of your mouth? Is it good, do you have any intention of putting it BACK in your mouth after you spit it out?
 
crossnote said:
Please answer the question plainly and not in vagaries.
Click to expand...

The line is WHEN YOU DIE OR WHEN HE COMES BACK (whichever is first), if you once professed Jesus as Lord unto salvation, and you die or he comes back and you walking in sin...
● Disown Christ or he will disown you (Mt. 10:33).
● Live according to the sinful nature or you will die spiritually (Rom. 8:13).
● Reject God by living an unholy life (1 Thess. 4:7,8).
● Defile your temple or God will destroy you (1 Cor. 3:17).
● Wander from the truth and remain unrepentant (James 5:19,20).
● Save your life or you will lose it (Mt. 16:25,26 cf. Mt. 10:28; Rev. 12:11).
● Become lukewarm and remain lukewarm or you’ll get spewed out of the body of Christ (Rev. 3:15,16).
● Hide your talent so you won’t be thrown outside into the darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mt. 25:24-30).
● Believe for a while and in time of testing “fall away” (Lk. 8:13 cf. Mt. 13:21).
● Sow to please the sinful nature for those who do will reap destruction (Gal. 6:8).
● Live according to the acts of the sinful nature or you will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).
● Depart from the Father to a life of unrestrained sinning or you will become spiritually dead and lost (Lk. 15:24,32).
● Become a drunkard, sexually immoral, greedy, a liar, etc., which will cause you to not inherit the kingdom of God but instead end up in the lake of fire (1 Cor. 6:9,10; Gal. 5:19-21; Eph. 5:5-7; Rev. 21:8; 22:15; Mk. 7:20-23).
● Worship the beast, his image or receive his mark, because all who do will be tormented forever with burning sulfur (Rev. 14:9-12).
● Take words away from this book of prophecy and have God take from you your share in the tree of life and the holy city (Rev. 22:19).
● Preach a false gospel and become eternally condemned (Gal. 1:8,9).
● Soil your spiritual clothes and stay that way or you will be unworthy to be with Jesus (Rev. 3:2-5).
● Forsake Jesus and God as your first love and remain unrepentant or forfeit your right to the tree of life in the paradise of God (Rev. 2:4-7).
● Choose to be a friend of this world or you will become an enemy of God (James 4:4).
● Look back now that you have put your hand to the plow or you won’t be fit for God’s kingdom (Lk. 9:62).
● Become impure, shameful or deceitful or you will not enter New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:27).
● Fall from grace or Christ will be of no benefit to you (Gal. 5:4).
● Be overcome by evil but instead overcome evil with good (Rom. 12:21).
● Forsake God or he’ll forsake you and you’ll perish (2 Chron. 15:2; Isa. 1:28).
● Turn to crooked ways and get banished with evildoers (Psa. 125:5).
● Stray from the path of understanding and come to rest with the spiritually dead (Pr. 21:16).
● Turn from your righteousness and do evil or you will die spiritually (Ezek. 3:20; 18:24; 33:18; Rom. 8:13).
● Think you are standing firm or you will fall (1 Cor. 10:12 cf. 2 Pet. 1:5-10).
 
crossnote said:
You must have a line since you spout off that a Christian can be lost.
Let's try it a little differently..

Let's say I am a born again Christian, what must I do to be lost?
Click to expand...

Please see above post SCRIPTURE LIST.
 
BELIEF does mean say "I believe Jesus died for the sins of mankind" the belief is "I confess JESUS is MY LORD and I will do what he says".
The first quote... even the DEMONS know that is TRUE!

The second quote INCLUDES the benefits of the first in that you MAKE JESUS LORD OF YOUR LIFE!

God is SOOOO good he gave us an instruction book and a "helper" to ensure we are without excuse for not serving HIM.
 
Grandpa said:
So you don't think you have lost your salvation but you think your friend has lost his.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

Or have you lost your salvation as well?
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You are NOW on my list of people who have severe reading comprehension problems and defective reasoning skills..TY :)
 
dcontroversal said:
Take your own advice pal as it is you how rejects all of the scriptures that clearly prove we have eternal life NOW based upon faith....and your self maintained pseudo gospel has no power to save.....keep rejecting verses like the following...to teach your heresy!

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me,hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(Joh 5:24)
Click to expand...

NO you don't get it! Shall not come into condemnation...

It says HEAR THE WORD OF JESUS, BELIEVE in GOD and you shall not come in to condemnation.

If you heard the word of Jesus, didn't he say "why do you call me lord and not DO what I say"
If you BELEIVE God... don't we have an ENTIRE bible that says what GOD SAYS about nearly every issue in life?

If you heard Jesus word and believe in GOD and DO NOT put Jesus WORDS God's Precepts into practice in your life... you are not "believing".... thinking produces ACTIONS... without actions it is just THEORY and PHILOSOPHY.
 
Jesus replied, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Are you plowing? DON'T look back... look ahead... PLOW on.
 
crossnote said:
As well as ...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(Joh 5:24)
Click to expand...

KennethC said:
It gets so exhausting trying to show you few over and over again from Jesus own words what believe in Him means.

Around and around we go because you few constantly reject Luke 6:46-49 !!!
Click to expand...
LOL, For someone who hasn't yet passed from death into life you don't need to tell us.
 
BarlyGurl said:
The line is WHEN YOU DIE OR WHEN HE COMES BACK (whichever is first), if you once professed Jesus as Lord unto salvation, and you die or he comes back and you walking in sin...
● Disown Christ or he will disown you (Mt. 10:33).
● Live according to the sinful nature or you will die spiritually (Rom. 8:13).
● Reject God by living an unholy life (1 Thess. 4:7,8).
● Defile your temple or God will destroy you (1 Cor. 3:17).
● Wander from the truth and remain unrepentant (James 5:19,20).
● Save your life or you will lose it (Mt. 16:25,26 cf. Mt. 10:28; Rev. 12:11).
● Become lukewarm and remain lukewarm or you’ll get spewed out of the body of Christ (Rev. 3:15,16).
● Hide your talent so you won’t be thrown outside into the darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mt. 25:24-30).
● Believe for a while and in time of testing “fall away” (Lk. 8:13 cf. Mt. 13:21).
● Sow to please the sinful nature for those who do will reap destruction (Gal. 6:8).
● Live according to the acts of the sinful nature or you will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).
● Depart from the Father to a life of unrestrained sinning or you will become spiritually dead and lost (Lk. 15:24,32).
● Become a drunkard, sexually immoral, greedy, a liar, etc., which will cause you to not inherit the kingdom of God but instead end up in the lake of fire (1 Cor. 6:9,10; Gal. 5:19-21; Eph. 5:5-7; Rev. 21:8; 22:15; Mk. 7:20-23).
● Worship the beast, his image or receive his mark, because all who do will be tormented forever with burning sulfur (Rev. 14:9-12).
● Take words away from this book of prophecy and have God take from you your share in the tree of life and the holy city (Rev. 22:19).
● Preach a false gospel and become eternally condemned (Gal. 1:8,9).
● Soil your spiritual clothes and stay that way or you will be unworthy to be with Jesus (Rev. 3:2-5).
● Forsake Jesus and God as your first love and remain unrepentant or forfeit your right to the tree of life in the paradise of God (Rev. 2:4-7).
● Choose to be a friend of this world or you will become an enemy of God (James 4:4).
● Look back now that you have put your hand to the plow or you won’t be fit for God’s kingdom (Lk. 9:62).
● Become impure, shameful or deceitful or you will not enter New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:27).
● Fall from grace or Christ will be of no benefit to you (Gal. 5:4).
● Be overcome by evil but instead overcome evil with good (Rom. 12:21).
● Forsake God or he’ll forsake you and you’ll perish (2 Chron. 15:2; Isa. 1:28).
● Turn to crooked ways and get banished with evildoers (Psa. 125:5).
● Stray from the path of understanding and come to rest with the spiritually dead (Pr. 21:16).
● Turn from your righteousness and do evil or you will die spiritually (Ezek. 3:20; 18:24; 33:18; Rom. 8:13).
● Think you are standing firm or you will fall (1 Cor. 10:12 cf. 2 Pet. 1:5-10).
Click to expand...
I don't respond to shotgun approaches, it's too much to answer. Instead give me from the list your best shot.
 
BarlyGurl said:
BELIEF does mean say "I believe Jesus died for the sins of mankind" the belief is "I confess JESUS is MY LORD and I will do what he says".
The first quote... even the DEMONS know that is TRUE!

The second quote INCLUDES the benefits of the first in that you MAKE JESUS LORD OF YOUR LIFE!

God is SOOOO good he gave us an instruction book and a "helper" to ensure we are without excuse for not serving HIM.
Click to expand...
Can you cite the Greek dictionary you used or did you make up your own definition for believe?
 
BarlyGurl said:
Jesus replied, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

Are you plowing? DON'T look back... look ahead... PLOW on.
Click to expand...
Some of us have the Holy Spirit and are being made 'fit' for the Kingdom, besides having been washed in His Blood we were made fit and when we receive our new bodies we will be fit...keep working at it, you're sure to fail in your own strength.
 
crossnote said:
I don't respond to shotgun approaches, it's too much to answer. Instead give me from the list your best shot.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is.... you have some good arguments for a "few" scriptures but refuse to take the entire "LOAD" of scriptures aimed at your argument?
Ya know Crossnote... I think you are saved... I also think you are pretty LACKADAISICAL about the whole counsel of God and spreading the same. Remember it was YOU who asked for prayer for that "AH-HA" moment. How about you go over to the family forum and read the abortion thread and then read about how.... the same OSAS-Grace,GRACE,GRACE philosophy has "Christians" earnestly contending that it is okay to murder your unborn baby...there is grace for that.

So while you STUBBORNLY want to hold onto your PHILOSOPHICAL doctrine.... you are ignoring the resulting apostasy going on all around you... claim those people where never saved AT ALL.... shrug your shoulders and go back to rocking in your chair. When the TRUTH is the are many scriptures you leap over and ignore which plainly instruct otherwise.

SO how about you go sit down with my list and a BIBLE and figure out how the WHOLE LOAD fits neatly with your OSAS philosophy?
 
BarlyGurl said:
NO you don't get it! Shall not come into condemnation...

It says HEAR THE WORD OF JESUS, BELIEVE in GOD and you shall not come in to condemnation.

If you heard the word of Jesus, didn't he say "why do you call me lord and not DO what I say"
If you BELEIVE God... don't we have an ENTIRE bible that says what GOD SAYS about nearly every issue in life?

If you heard Jesus word and believe in GOD and DO NOT put Jesus WORDS God's Precepts into practice in your life... you are not "believing".... thinking produces ACTIONS... without actions it is just THEORY and PHILOSOPHY.
Click to expand...

Your working for salvation pseudo gospel is no gospel at all......Belief = saved.......No by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy HAS HE SAVED US <--past tense.......wake up to the truth
 
BarlyGurl said:
So what you are saying is.... you have some good arguments for a "few" scriptures but refuse to take the entire "LOAD" of scriptures aimed at your argument?
Ya know Crossnote... I think you are saved... I also think you are pretty LACKADAISICAL about the whole counsel of God and spreading the same. Remember it was YOU who asked for prayer for that "AH-HA" moment. How about you go over to the family forum and read the abortion thread and then read about how.... the same OSAS-Grace,GRACE,GRACE philosophy has "Christians" earnestly contending that it is okay to murder your unborn baby...there is grace for that.

So while you STUBBORNLY want to hold onto your PHILOSOPHICAL doctrine.... you are ignoring the resulting apostasy going on all around you... claim those people where never saved AT ALL.... shrug your shoulders and go back to rocking in your chair. When the TRUTH is the are many scriptures you leap over and ignore which plainly instruct otherwise.

SO how about you go sit down with my list and a BIBLE and figure out how the WHOLE LOAD fits neatly with your OSAS philosophy?
Click to expand...

My time is too precious for redundancy, that's why I asked for your best shot out of the list, but all I got was excuses and personal attacks.
 
crossnote said:
They are just parroting what they hear their cult leaders tell them without doing research.
Click to expand...

Really? Who is my CULT LEADER? I read the BIBLE, I proclaim JESUS IS MY LORD, I co-operate with the leading of the HS and conform my thinking to the WORD OF GOD.
 
BarlyGurl said:
Really? Who is my CULT LEADER? I read the BIBLE, I proclaim JESUS IS MY LORD, I co-operate with the leading of the HS and conform my thinking to the WORD OF GOD.
Click to expand...

Well I noticed that list you presented to me and could not pick one of it's points was not your list. Was it from one of your 'teachers'?
 
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