Once saved always saved?

[posthuman]

Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch
-- as you really are.
For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)

See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done.
At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.
(2 Corinthians 7:11)
​

hmmmm .. . . . .

 

[dcontroversal]

Wrong there is a number of scriptures in the bible that speak on believers falling away, departing, and not continuing in the faith, and each one of them does not say those who do this end up with eternal life.

Keep thinking that...one day...albeit too late, you will find out that eternal security was the reality........and your self sustained false gospel had no power to save you!

 

[BarlyGurl]

Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch
-- as you really are.
For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)

See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done.
At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.
(2 Corinthians 7:11)
​

hmmmm .. . . . .

Do you know that yeast must be cultivated, fed and handled properly or it can become toxic and/or die?

 

[Christine1974]

Also one drop of yeast can ruin a whole batch. Hmm.

 

[KennethC]

Keep thinking that...one day...albeit too late, you will find out that eternal security was the reality........and your self sustained false gospel had no power to save you!

Matthew 7:21 disproves that eternal security doctrine because the people mentioned in this scripture believed in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

They however were sent away and told by Him that He never knew them because they continued to live "lawlessnes" lives. Meaning the continue to walk sinful lives as well and thought their mere belief was enough and they could continue to live however they wanted.

Matthew 25:31-46 both the sheep and the goats believed Jesus as their Lord, as verses 37 and 44 show.
These again thought their mere belief in Him would save them and they could continue to live however they wanted. Lord Jesus told the goats however because they denied to help others in need they have denied Him, and were sent to eternal punishment.

Acts 20:28-31 Apostle Paul says that false teachers will come in and deceive disciples of Christ to follow them instead, and says here that they will not be spared for follow after those false teachers. Paul gives this same teaching more times in 2 Timothy 4 and Colossains 1:22-23 just to name a few.

 

[KennethC]

Do you know that yeast must be cultivated, fed and handled properly or it can become toxic and/or die?

Yes that was one of many warnings to believers about sin, and in this case in 1 Corinthians 5 he is saying if you let a deliberate sinner continue to be a part of the congregation he will lead others to think living sinfully is okay as well. Leading others to fall away from the faith which will lead to eternal death instead of eternal life.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Also one drop of yeast can ruin a whole batch. Hmm.

Yes and I did "think that backwards"... I am also in a FOOD SCIENCE discussion right now and I would like to retract my comment as INAPPROPRIATE FOR THIS THREAD.

I apologize

 

[dcontroversal]

Matthew 7:21 disproves that eternal security doctrine because the people mentioned in this scripture believed in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

They however were sent away and told by Him that He never knew them because they continued to live "lawlessnes" lives. Meaning the continue to walk sinful lives as well and thought their mere belief was enough and they could continue to live however they wanted.

Matthew 25:31-46 both the sheep and the goats believed Jesus as their Lord, as verses 37 and 44 show.
These again thought their mere belief in Him would save them and they could continue to live however they wanted. Lord Jesus told the goats however because they denied to help others in need they have denied Him, and were sent to eternal punishment.

Acts 20:28-31 Apostle Paul says that false teachers will come in and deceive disciples of Christ to follow them instead, and says here that they will not be spared for follow after those false teachers. Paul gives this same teaching more times in 2 Timothy 4 and Colossains 1:22-23 just to name a few.

The people in Matthew 7 claimed to know Jesus...it does not say that they were saved..as a matter of fact you view makes Christ out to be a liar as he said he NEVER KNEW THEM....your reasoning and logic is flawed and by your own false doctrine you read in something that is not there which is your normal habit....twist the scriptures to get your false doctrine....get past point one as the rest are moot because you cannot even get one verse right! If they had been saved and then lost it Jesus could not say without lying that he had never known them!

 

[BarlyGurl]

Yes that was one of many warnings to believers about sin, and in this case in 1 Corinthians 5 he is saying if you let a deliberate sinner continue to be a part of the congregation he will lead others to think living sinfully is okay as well. Leading others to fall away from the faith which will lead to eternal death instead of eternal life.

AWESOME SAVE KENNETH... TY.... <going back to other thread now>

 

[Angela53510]

Yes a grew up in a devoted to Christ Baptist background family, but when I got older I walked away from the church and the Lord to live my own life my own way.

During that time I was not saved and under grace and my life hit rock bottom for living how I wanted and not listening to the Lord. It was not tell I hit 28 that I got back into the word of God and realized why things were going so wrong for me. I then took and rededicated my life to the Lord and dipped into studying His word to understand His ways.

I am saved and do have the Holy Spirit in me who guides me in my studies, and I know this is true because even when I first started studying His word I was interested in prophesy but the Holy Spirit guided me away from that at first and told me learning the warnings to believers about sin that Apostle Paul gave is more important to know in this day and age.

After a few years of studying those warnings then I was lead by the Spirit in prophecy studies.

The bible makes it very clear that if you depart/fall away from the faith you are not in a saved state at that time as you are not under grace. You can not serve both flesh and Spirit and have salvation, and Apostle Paul makes this clear in Romans 8.


My life is a good example of the prodigal son who walked away from the Father, and only when my life hit rock bottom did I return to the Lord. If I would have never returned the bible makes it clear the ending I would have faced would of been, and it is not salvation....

Perhaps you meant a different chapter than Romans 8??

That is one of the strongest chapters that show eternal security to be true.

"Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus, 2 because the Spirit’s law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." Romans 8:1-2

"All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children, 17 and if children, also heirs—heirs of God and coheirs with Christ—seeing that we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him." Romans 8:14-17

"26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[g] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.[h=3]God's Everlasting Love[/h]31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[i] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:26-39

I guess I just should have copied the whole chapter, or the whole Bible!

 

[KennethC]

The people in Matthew 7 claimed to know Jesus...it does not say that they were saved..as a matter of fact you view makes Christ out to be a liar as he said he NEVER KNEW THEM....your reasoning and logic is flawed and by your own false doctrine you read in something that is not there which is your normal habit....twist the scriptures to get your false doctrine....get past point one as the rest are moot because you cannot even get one verse right!

How does my view make Christ out to be a liar ???

Lord Jesus Himself in that same passage said not all who call Him Lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He never knew them because they thought they could be carnally minded, double minded, serve two masters, all of which the word of God says we can not do. Jesus saying He never knew them was because He was denying them for denying Him in their actions.

You are the one who reads into scriptures what is not there, because how many times have you tried to make this scripture say they tried to earn salvation by works when it says no such thing. It says they continued to live lawlessness, which means they continued to be deliberately sinful.

 

[dcontroversal]

How does my view make Christ out to be a liar ???

Lord Jesus Himself in that same passage said not all who call Him Lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He never knew them because they thought they could be carnally minded, double minded, serve two masters, all of which the word of God says we can not do. Jesus saying He never knew them was because He was denying them for denying Him in their actions.

You are the one who reads into scriptures what is not there, because how many times have you tried to make this scripture say they tried to earn salvation by works when it says no such thing. It says they continued to live lawlessness, which means they continued to be deliberately sinful.

What I said stands....receive it or keep denying it..I could care less about false teacher like you which twists the word to fit your theology...They bragged and boasted of their works to enter...Jesus said he never knew them because they came by works instead of faith...sounds familiar..like you

 

[Christine1974]

Yes and I did "think that backwards"... I am also in a FOOD SCIENCE discussion right now and I would like to retract my comment as INAPPROPRIATE FOR THIS THREAD.

I apologize

I thought it was appropriate. I wasn't thinking about food at all when I read your post. Lol. And I wasn't talking about food. So it could be very much related to this thread. IMO.

 

[KennethC]

Perhaps you meant a different chapter than Romans 8??

That is one of the strongest chapters that show eternal security to be true.

"Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,2 because the Spirit’s law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." Romans 8:1-2

"All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children, 17 and if children, also heirs—heirs of God and coheirs with Christ—seeing that we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him." Romans 8:14-17

"26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[g] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose.29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.God's Everlasting Love

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[i] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:26-39

I guess I just should have copied the whole chapter, or the whole Bible!

Yes Angela you should have used the whole chapter because you left out Romans 8:4-8, and 12-13 where Paul is telling the brethren (believers) that if they continue to walk by the flesh (sinful ways) instead of by the Spirit they will receive eternal death and not eternal life.

 

[KennethC]

What I said stands....receive it or keep denying it..I could care less about false teacher like you which twists the word to fit your theology...They bragged and boasted of their works to enter...Jesus said he never knew them because they came by works instead of faith...sounds familiar..like you

I deny what you say, not what the Word of God says !!!

So please keep your negativity and false accusations to yourself as your speech is unedifying.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(work iniquity = practices lawlessness = deliberately sinning)

 

[posthuman]

Yes Angela you should have used the whole chapter because you left out Romans 8:4-8, and 12-13 where Paul is telling the brethren (believers) that if they continue to walk by the flesh (sinful ways) instead of by the Spirit they will receive eternal death and not eternal life.

for your part, why would you want to leave out 9-11?

And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
​

verse 10 is especially poignant, i think:

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

​

keeping in mind that the "righteousness" Paul is talking about here is one that is declared and not earned - it is a righteousness by faith, not works. so it depends on God, who justifies, by mercy and by His foreknowledge and pre-ordination, not by works - because it is by the Spirit, given by grace through faith, not by whether or not our bodies are subject to death because of sin.

​

 

[dcontroversal]

I deny what you say, not what the Word of God says !!!

So please keep your negativity and false accusations to yourself as your speech is unedifying.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(work iniquity = practices lawlessness = deliberately sinning)

Yeah the will of the Father is to believe on him whom he hath sent...and their boast on works tell us exactly how they tried to enter...instead of faith they trusted into their works...Jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM...your attempt to turn this into a saved lost salvation is false and contrary to the truth! You are using scripture to peddle your false gospel and your point is moot and false!

 

[KennethC]

for your part, why would you want to leave out 9-11?

And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
​

verse 10 is especially poignant, i think:

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

​

keeping in mind that the "righteousness" Paul is talking about here is one that is declared and not earned - it is a righteousness by faith, not works. so it depends on God, who justifies, by mercy and by His foreknowledge and pre-ordination, not by works - because it is by the Spirit, given by grace through faith, not by whether or not our bodies are subject to death because of sin.

​

Once again I do not preach salvation by works, for that is a false accusation that some on here want to keep judging me with that I never do.

What I instruct on is how the bible shows a true faith in Christ is an active faith, which is what Paul is showing here in Romans 8. For he is saying if you walk by the Spirit (fruits) you will have eternal life, but if you walk by the flesh (sinful) then you are headed to eternal death.

Apostle Paul is showing that a true born again believer in Christ by that faith will walk by and in those fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Those who are not born again will show their false profession in the faith by their actions as well.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone..........James 2:17

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.......James 2:24

Works do not earn or maintain salvation but they are the proof and product of a true born again saved person, without those fruits one is not born again and will be cut off and burned.

 

[KennethC]

Yeah the will of the Father is to believe on him whom he hath sent...and their boast on works tell us exactly how they tried to enter...instead of faith they trusted into their works...Jesus said he NEVER KNEW THEM...your attempt to turn this into a saved lost salvation is false and contrary to the truth! You are using scripture to peddle your false gospel and your point is moot and false!

They were not boasting about their works they thought they were saved by their mere belief, but at judgment when Christ told them they were not going to receive eternal life. Then they started pleading with the Lord not boasting, as they were saying to Him why Lord we did things for you like your word says we will do.

The Lord then tells them I am denying you because you continued to serve sin as well with your lawless lives !!!

Pleading and boasting are two separate things, and they were pleading in this passage not boasting.

 

[posthuman]

Matthew 7:21 disproves that eternal security doctrine because the people mentioned in this scripture believed in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

They however were sent away and told by Him that He never knew them because they continued to live "lawlessnes" lives. Meaning the continue to walk sinful lives as well and thought their mere belief was enough and they could continue to live however they wanted.

there's probably a reason you mentioned this verse but didn't quote it --

21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’​

​

maybe because it does not say at all what you said it says?
where is the bit about "they believed in Jesus as their Lord and Savior" ?
i see instead that they boasted of the mighty righteous they did in His name.
where does it say "they continued to live their lawless lives" ?
i see instead that they did not do the will of the Father -- and the will of the Father is that we believe in the one who was sent to propitiate our sin (John 6:29) and that all who look to Him ((not to righteous works)) should be saved (John 6:40).

& like Dcon pointed out -- Christ said He "never knew" these -- that means they were not at one time saved ((known by Him)) and then lost salvation. it means they were never saved at all!!
why?
plainly, because they trusted in their own works, and not in His mercy.

we have to come humbly to Him, not proudly.

boasting? it is excluded.
how is it excluded if i'm holding up half or more the burden??
the only boasting is that we have known His mercy!