Once saved always saved?

[Grandpa]

I think depending on “eternal security” is a slippery slope. Jesus said that obedience to his words was essential: (Matthew 7:24 - 27)

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
[SUP]25[/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
………
[SUP]26[/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
[SUP]27[/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

The serpent had convinced Eve that "thou wilt surely not die [if you disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit]." It's similar to the "eternal security" deception of today.

Depending on anything that people say or think is a slippery slope.

You aren't saved by eternal security just because someone else believes in it. You aren't saved by works because someone preaches it.

Salvation is given by the Lord Jesus Christ. You have to go to Him to get it. Once you do, its everlasting.

Until you do that its just philosophy and argument. Carnal understanding arguing with other carnal understanding. The carnal cannot understand the spirit. No matter how plainly it is presented.

How do you know someone is carnal? They are still relying on their own strength and understanding.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

[jonl]

Depending on anything that people say or think is a slippery slope.

You aren't saved by eternal security just because someone else believes in it. You aren't saved by works because someone preaches it.

Salvation is given by the Lord Jesus Christ. You have to go to Him to get it. Once you do, its everlasting.

Until you do that its just philosophy and argument. Carnal understanding arguing with other carnal understanding. The carnal cannot understand the spirit. No matter how plainly it is presented.

How do you know someone is carnal? They are still relying on their own strength and understanding.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Salvation is given by the Lord Jesus Christ. You have to go to Him to get it. Once you do, its everlasting.

This is the kind of deception the serpent used on Eve, the false prophets of Israel used on Israel, Lucifer used on a third of the angels in heaven to rebel, “Once you do, its everlasting.” Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden, Israel and Judah were taken captive by Assyria and Babylon, and Lucifer and the rebellious angels were kicked out of heaven.

Jesus called the Laodicean church, lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. The doctrines of OSAS, eternal security, and pretrib rapture have kind of made church people complacent, “what, me worry?”

 

[notuptome]

Salvation is given by the Lord Jesus Christ. You have to go to Him to get it. Once you do, its everlasting.

This is the kind of deception the serpent used on Eve, the false prophets of Israel used on Israel, Lucifer used on a third of the angels in heaven to rebel, “Once you do, its everlasting.” Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden, Israel and Judah were taken captive by Assyria and Babylon, and Lucifer and the rebellious angels were kicked out of heaven.

Jesus called the Laodicean church, lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. The doctrines of OSAS, eternal security, and pretrib rapture have kind of made church people complacent, “what, me worry?”

You need to learn of Gods grace. If what you have is not everlasting you did get it from the Eternal God of creation.

You are wise in the ways of the serpent. Jesus said he that believeth on Me shall not see death but shall have everlasting life. John 6:40 You say that is not what Christ said.

You must first know Christ to know the doctrines of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Gr8grace]

Salvation is given by the Lord Jesus Christ. You have to go to Him to get it. Once you do, its everlasting.

This is the kind of deception the serpent used on Eve, the false prophets of Israel used on Israel, Lucifer used on a third of the angels in heaven to rebel, “Once you do, its everlasting.” Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden, Israel and Judah were taken captive by Assyria and Babylon, and Lucifer and the rebellious angels were kicked out of heaven.

Jesus called the Laodicean church, lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. The doctrines of OSAS, eternal security, and pretrib rapture have kind of made church people complacent, “what, me worry?”

Worry is a sin, and is not part of the Christian way of life.

 

[BarlyGurl]

>>>>You aren't saved by eternal security just because someone else believes in it. You aren't saved by works because someone preaches it.<<<<<

Here in lies a problem I see all around me.... PEOPLE who are depending/believe/think/rest in <enough vocabulary?>, the idea/philosophy/preaching of ETERNAL SECURITY. It is TRUE, Jesus did it for ALL mankind, but that doesn't mean ALL mankind receives it.
I am also noticing that those people DO NOT repent of anything... "GRACE, GRACE, GRACE"
SO for those who are twice born and "hold fast" to their salvation thru Jesus.....

Can we please contend earnestly to dig out the ROOT of the problem so it can be addressed in consideration to the SAVING OF SOULS of who are not saved? As apposed to lobbing insults at each other and behaving like "bratty children" instead of the Children of God?

I want to be about my father's business... don't you?

 

[777011]

What ever we believe it must come from the scriptures. We should endeavor to line ourselves up with the Word of God and not dismiss it or redefine it. Lets look at Phil 1:6 Paul is speaking: "Being confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will complete it on the Day of Jesus Christ." This verse speaks of salvation not being lost. God does not start something He is not going to finish. John Chapters 6, 10 and 17 speak of God not losing even one of those He calls... If you have been called, "before the foundation of the world" you will be there. Paul even speaks of two ladies of faith who's names are written in the book of life. There was no disclaimer as: until they fall away... Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. James

 

[Elin]

>>>>You aren't saved by eternal security just because someone else believes in it. You aren't saved by works because someone preaches it.<<<<<

Here in lies a problem I see all around me.... PEOPLE who are depending/believe/think/rest in <enough vocabulary?>, the idea/philosophy/preaching of ETERNAL SECURITY. It is TRUE, Jesus did it for ALL mankind, but that doesn't mean ALL mankind receives it.
I am also noticing that those people DO NOT repent of anything...

Keeping in mind that repentance itself is "a change of mind" and heart, not necessarily a profession of anything.

 

[Elin]

Salvation is given by the Lord Jesus Christ. You have to go to Him to get it. Once you do, its everlasting.

This is the kind of deception the serpent used on Eve, the false prophets of Israel used on Israel, Lucifer used on a third of the angels in heaven to rebel, “Once you do, its everlasting.” Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden, Israel and Judah were taken captive by Assyria and Babylon, and Lucifer and the rebellious angels were kicked out of heaven.

Jesus called the Laodicean church, lukewarm, neither hot nor cold. The doctrines of
OSAS, eternal security, and pretrib rapture
have kind of made church people complacent, “what, me worry?”

It has not made the born again complacent.

 

[777011]

Your concerns are duely noted.

 

[Elin]

my firm Hope is it will never be mine

my Hope is having been chosen to be in Christ.
my Hope is God in Christ has accomplished everything necessary to rescue sinners.

my Hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness.
i dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' Name.

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful (Heb 10:23)

it's not about me, it's about the One Who has promised

On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.

When he shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in him be found (Php 1:9; Nu 34:26-28),
Dressed in his righteousness alone (Ro 5:19; Is 61:10),
Faultless to stand before the throne (Tit 3:5-7).

On Christ the solid Rock I stand. . .

 

[crossnote]

What ever we believe it must come from the scriptures. We should endeavor to line ourselves up with the Word of God and not dismiss it or redefine it. Lets look at Phil 1:6 Paul is speaking: "Being confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will complete it on the Day of Jesus Christ." This verse speaks of salvation not being lost. God does not start something He is not going to finish. John Chapters 6, 10 and 17 speak of God not losing even one of those He calls... If you have been called, "before the foundation of the world" you will be there. Paul even speaks of two ladies of faith who's names are written in the book of life. There was no disclaimer as: until they fall away... Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. James

Piggy backing...

1 Peter 1:3-5 (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Keeping in mind that repentance itself is "a change of mind" and heart, not necessarily a profession of anything.

PTL!!!! perfect... exactly Elin!

This is what I am getting at... NO REPENTANCE. SO many people have NO IDEA what repentance IS. Too often I see "people" being propelled thru the "actions" of coming to salvation in Christ... but there is not repentance.... then there are other "people" all around them reinforcing that they are now SAVED and you are secure.... but they have never REPENTED or they think they did and now they are told "you have the mind of CHRIST" so they think their thoughts ARE God thoughts... and therefore there is no need to repent... all washed in the blood... SAVED Eternal.

Being TWICE BORN requires repentance.... continually as sanctification requires the renewing of your mind by washing it in the water of the word... via the instruction of the scriptures <and some people need more "scubbing" then others>.

I am really concerned about this problem, I want to be able to correct it when reasoning opportunities arise.

 

[crossnote]

PTL!!!! perfect... exactly Elin!

This is what I am getting at... NO REPENTANCE. SO many people have NO IDEA what repentance IS. Too often I see "people" being propelled thru the "actions" of coming to salvation in Christ... but there is not repentance.... then there are other "people" all around them reinforcing that they are now SAVED and you are secure.... but they have never REPENTED or they think they did and now they are told "you have the mind of CHRIST" so they think their thoughts ARE God thoughts... and therefore there is no need to repent... all washed in the blood... SAVED Eternal.

Being TWICE BORN requires repentance.... continually as sanctification requires the renewing of your mind by washing it in the water of the word... via the instruction of the scriptures <and some people need more "scubbing" then others>.

I am really concerned about this problem, I want to be able to correct it when reasoning opportunities arise.

But the issue is 'once saved' and by that I take it to mean truly saved/regenerated. No one will argue against false or counterfeit conversions.
Will you argue once truly saved one can lose salvation?

 

[777011]

JHim

Piggy backing...

1 Peter 1:3-5 (KJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the Author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, dispising its shame and is seated at the right hand of God". The word Author above in greek means originator, creator, the word finisher is just that the completer. Jesus is the "creator" of our faith. When faith is given by God you can not loose it.

 

[wattie]

Repentance for eternal salvation/conversion is NOT - 'now I will turn away from all my sin and continue in the faith'

It IS- I am a dirty rotten sinner and cannot save myself.. my works are useless dung.. Jesus please save me!

As Elin posted- 'a change of mind, heart'.. not a commitment to continue to turn from bad sin.

Luk_18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

!!!!

 

[jonl]

PTL!!!! perfect... exactly Elin!

This is what I am getting at... NO REPENTANCE. SO many people have NO IDEA what repentance IS. Too often I see "people" being propelled thru the "actions" of coming to salvation in Christ... but there is not repentance.... then there are other "people" all around them reinforcing that they are now SAVED and you are secure.... but they have never REPENTED or they think they did and now they are told "you have the mind of CHRIST" so they think their thoughts ARE God thoughts... and therefore there is no need to repent... all washed in the blood... SAVED Eternal.

Being TWICE BORN requires repentance.... continually as sanctification requires the renewing of your mind by washing it in the water of the word... via the instruction of the scriptures <and some people need more "scubbing" then others>.

I am really concerned about this problem, I want to be able to correct it when reasoning opportunities arise.

I’m not so sure about eternal security, but I agree with what you’ve said about being born-again – “requires repentance.... continually as sanctification requires the renewing of your mind by washing it in the water of the word... via the instruction of the scriptures <and some people need more "scubbing" then others>.” I Peter 2:19-22 –

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[SUP]20[/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21[/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22[/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[resurrection33]

I'm new here but just by reading y'alls discussion I'm very interested in what y'all feel about this topic. There are scriptures too back up both sides and since God doesn't contradict Himself then there must be only one answer. I ask this because of my personal experiences and other people I know. For myself I was raised in the church, went to Sunday school, read my bible, baptised, etc. As I got into my twenties I fell away from it. I lived very much of the world. However if somebody would've asked me if I was a Christian I would've said of course,I love Jesus, believe He died for my sins and I will be forgiven and go to heaven. Then years later(almost twenty) I got born again(again?)and started realizing how sinful and far away from God I really was. Some people say well then obviously you weren't saved back then because you wouldn't have lived like you did but I feel like I was. I was sincere when I did it. I feel like you can lose your salvation. Isn't that what Paul warns us about? Isn't that why we must wear our armor? I feel like most of the warnings in the New Testament are to believers. If we can't lose our salvation, why are the warnings in the bible for us. Thank you for reading my post.

I don’t think most people understand what salvation is. With each sin we commit, Satan could torment us forever. Jesus Christ ended that when he died for us on the cross. However, the Lord expects us to learn from our mistakes, and he will discipline us for our sins. That discipline can be quite severe if we stubbornly persist in our sin and allow it to grow worse.

 

[KennethC]

So then, Kenneth, what do you make of Romans 8:39?

"nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:26-39"

Nothing in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord!

You have to take that in context with the first half of the chapter of walking in the Spirit vs. walking by the flesh.
If you continue to walk by the Spirit then nothing will or can separate you from the love of God, however if you walk by the flesh then you are already separated from God.

Apostle Peter talks on this same subject in 2 Peter 1:4-11 where he says if you add to your faith the fruits (walk by the Spirit) then you will never stumble and by doing this an entrance to haven will be supplied for you, and you will know that your call and election is sure.

But then says if those things are not yours then you are nearsighted and blind and have forgotten only past sins have been forgiven, and your walking by the flesh will lead you to eternal death and not eternal life.

My guess is that KC will say, "But we can"...even though we are part of that creation.

Look at what I said above as that verse in Romans 8:39 has to be taken in context with the rest of the chapter of walking by the Spirit vs. walking by the flesh.

We can not pull out scriptures and make them stand on there own as the word of God does not work in that way !!!

 

[KennethC]

I don't deny this. Who is denying this?

Yes, obedience is the showing of a true born again faith in the Lord. James said we show our faith by our works (James 2:18). This does not mean that we are saved based on the merits of our multiple acts of obedience/works.

Refusing to do anything the Lord says is a sign of an unregenerate heart.

Who is saying they love and trust in Jesus as their Lord and Savior but they don't follow anything He says? That would be an OXYMORON.

Those previously on here who continue to say we do not have to be obedient, and those works (fruits) of the Spirit do not have to be evident in our lives to prove we are saved. They say that's a works based salvation and not needed, but the bible clearly says from Jesus those who do not have those fruits will be cut off and burned.

Nowhere did I say we are saved by works, but what I do instruct on is that those works are proof of one who is truly born again, and if you still continue to act like your former sinful self then you are not saved.

That is what I said those who tell and instruct others they don't have to follow the Lord's teachings and commandments do not have a born again heart, because if they did they would defend His teachings not tell others they don't have to do it.

Well you have a couple on here that say that, and a couple of them even gave you likes for your post when they have exactly said that. They have debated with me constantly that you don't have to keep His commandments, when I have said we born again believers will and do have to.

 

[psychomom]

the truly regenerate.... those whom God has rescued from sin, will of course follow Him.

when God raises the dead to newness of life in Christ He gives new hearts.
their 'wanter' has been changed by God to love the things He loves, and hate the things He hates.

Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jer 31:31-34)


“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. “I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. “For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land.
“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. “You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. “Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. “I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. “Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. “I am not doing this for your sake,” declares the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!” ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt. “The desolate land will be cultivated instead of being a desolation in the sight of everyone who passes by. “They will say, ‘This desolate land has become like the garden of Eden; and the waste, desolate and ruined cities are fortified and inhabited.’ “Then the nations that are left round about you will know that I, the LORD, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted that which was desolate;
I, the LORD, have spoken and will do it.” (Ez 36:22-36)

the Most High surely does tell us a lot about Who does what, and for Whose Glory

(apologies for such a long post )