If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

[elf3]

First and once again I do not agree with the sinless perfection gospel, so again that is a false statement applied on me....Please stop !!!

Second I do not preach condemnation nor do I ever use that word, for what I do is used the word of God (Sword) to show others how the bible clearly and truthfully says how a born again believer will act and live like.

When another is says Jesus is their Lord but they are either walking or acting improperly by the faith, and another uses the scriptures to show them they are acting wrongfully that is called reproving and rebuking them. Then by keep showing them the proper way to walk along with it is called exhorting them into the proper teachings.

People need to learn how to discern between judging and rebuking, and from reproving and condemning.

Those who flat out make condemning statements with no edifying to follow is being judgmental, but those who are using the scriptures (Sword) in all three processes reprove, rebuke, and exhort are not being condemning or judgmental.

Apostle Paul constantly when he came acrossed a member/s of the brethren walking improperly/sinning he called them out on their sinful ways. He did not sit back and say it is okay it will work itself out, no he told them they needed to stop committing those sins and if they did not warned them where it would lead.

Wow hold on there kenny as I don't think I named anyone in my post. Let me ask you a question. Do you still commit sin even though you are saved by the blood of Christ? And be very careful here with your answer. If you say yes then you are now out of communion with God according to not believing OSAS so thus must be resanctified. If you say no then you believe yourself to now be sinless thus no longer needing a savior.

 

[KennethC]

?
What abyss is that from?







What is eternal life Kenneth?

Read through the threads and you will find those who say we do not have to keep His commands and teachings, and when another speaks on the active part of a true faith they go off on them such as a few of them do to me on here.

I speak on the fruits of the Spirit that the bible says and shows will be very evident in every true born again believer, and if those fruits are not evident it says they are not born again and will be cut off and burned.

Eternal life is the promise that we receive after enduring this life by doing the will of God, and this is shown in Matthew 7:21, Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 10:36.

Apostle Paul says by faith in Christ we hope to receive and seek to receive eternal life multiple times showing that it is not a physical possession of ours now.

What the physical possession of eternal life that we have now after being born again Apostle John shows clearly that it is of the Holy Spirit who abides in us. (1 John 3:24)


Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

1 John 2:22
And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.

 

[flob]

the bible clearly and truthfully says how a born again believer will act and live like.

What a joke

People need to learn how to discern between judging and rebuking, and from reproving and condemning.

Judgment begins at the house of God

Apostle Paul constantly when he came acrossed a member/s of the brethren walking improperly/sinning he called them out on their sinful ways. He did not sit back and say it is okay it will work itself out,

Does that have anything to do with obab (once born, always born)?

I speak on the fruits of the Spirit that the bible says and shows will be very evident in every true born again believer, and if those fruits are not evident it says they are not born again

To the contrary:
it depends on the passage of the Bible.
As some kind of absolute: that's a falsehood

Eternal life is the promise that we receive after enduring this life by doing the will of God, and this is shown in Matthew 7:21, Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 10:36.
Apostle Paul says by faith in Christ we hope to receive and seek to receive eternal life multiple times showing that it is not a physical possession of ours now.
What the physical possession of eternal life that we have now after being born again Apostle John shows clearly that it is of the Holy Spirit who abides in us. (1 John 3:24)

If you have Christ, you have eternal life, because Christ is eternal life

 

[elf3]

Read through the threads and you will find those who say we do not have to keep His commands and teachings, and when another speaks on the active part of a true faith they go off on them such as a few of them do to me on here.

I speak on the fruits of the Spirit that the bible says and shows will be very evident in every true born again believer, and if those fruits are not evident it says they are not born again and will be cut off and burned.

Eternal life is the promise that we receive after enduring this life by doing the will of God, and this is shown in Matthew 7:21, Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 10:36.

Apostle Paul says by faith in Christ we hope to receive and seek to receive eternal life multiple times showing that it is not a physical possession of ours now.

What the physical possession of eternal life that we have now after being born again Apostle John shows clearly that it is of the Holy Spirit who abides in us. (1 John 3:24)


Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.

1 John 2:22
And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.

Oh and yeah sorry I guess i did kind of name you since you don't believe OSAS.

I do not know of anyone here who has said we can still sin and not follow God's commands and be saved. You along with others place those words in our mouths. Since you are failing to understand our point you feed things into our mouths we did not say. You on the other hand do believe in sinless perfection if you refuse OSAS because then you would have to be perfect and sinless to enter heaven. According to opponents of OSAS if you sin once you were either never a Christian or you just fell out of God's hands. You refuse to see what the true meanings of grace mercy are.

 

[KennethC]

Wow hold on there kenny as I don't think I named anyone in my post. Let me ask you a question. Do you still commit sin even though you are saved by the blood of Christ? And be very careful here with your answer. If you say yes then you are now out of communion with God according to not believing OSAS so thus must be resanctified. If you say no then you believe yourself to now be sinless thus no longer needing a savior.

Well that would be wrong on both accounts as you do not have to be sinless perfectionist or OSASer by how one answers this question of yours.

First we do still stumble at times and sin, but when we do stumble we confess that sin to receive forgiveness for it by the Lord.
Therefore we are still continuing to walk in the faith when we do this when we sin at times, however this does not mean we will always sin everyday as nowhere in the bible does it state we will.

We are presented spotless by the Lord before God by continuing to repent and confess our sins to the Lord when we commit one to have His blood cover them for remission.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit who is sent to us will have us gain self-control and have victory over sin, as those fruits lead away from sin and not toward sin. If somebody claims we can never stop sinning every single day then they are speaking a false gospel, and also those who claim we can never stumble or our salvation is lost is also teaching falsely.

You may not have addressed me personally but in a thread when your response comes right after another's that shows or can be taken that that is who you are addressing. If you were not addressing me then sorry for the confusing, but we need to actually say who we are talking to and addressing.

We will be presented by the Lord to God as being sinless after we have continued in the faith and repented and confessed of the sins we have committed. That is the only time sinless comes into play is by those sins being covered by the Lord's blood to never be used against us again. This is only achieved by continuing in the faith, repenting and confessing of sins, and walking properly in the faith.

 

[elf3]

Well that would be wrong on both accounts as you do not have to be sinless perfectionist or OSASer by how one answers this question of yours.

First we do still stumble at times and sin, but when we do stumble we confess that sin to receive forgiveness for it by the Lord.
Therefore we are still continuing to walk in the faith when we do this when we sin at times, however this does not mean we will always sin everyday as nowhere in the bible does it state we will.

We are presented spotless by the Lord before God by continuing to repent and confess our sins to the Lord when we commit one to have His blood cover them for remission.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit who is sent to us will have us gain self-control and have victory over sin, as those fruits lead away from sin and not toward sin. If somebody claims we can never stop sinning every single day then they are speaking a false gospel, and also those who claim we can never stumble or our salvation is lost is also teaching falsely.

You may not have addressed me personally but in a thread when your response comes right after another's that shows or can be taken that that is who you are addressing. If you were not addressing me then sorry for the confusing, but we need to actually say who we are talking to and addressing.

We will be presented by the Lord to God as being sinless after we have continued in the faith and repented and confessed of the sins we have committed. That is the only time sinless comes into play is by those sins being covered by the Lord's blood to never be used against us again. This is only achieved by continuing in the faith, repenting and confessing of sins, and walking properly in the faith.

Ok well then just one more question for you. Once we become a Christian do you think we can ever fall out of God's hands? I am not talking about us sinning for the sake of grace but when we "are human" and sin because we are human not by an act of repetedly sinning. (I think I said that right). I guess we as humans would call it "accidental sin". Not meaning too but our sinful nature taking over for a bit. And we repent after we sin.

 

[KennethC]

Oh and yeah sorry I guess i did kind of name you since you don't believe OSAS.

I do not know of anyone here who has said we can still sin and not follow God's commands and be saved. You along with others place those words in our mouths. Since you are failing to understand our point you feed things into our mouths we did not say. You on the other hand do believe in sinless perfection if you refuse OSAS because then you would have to be perfect and sinless to enter heaven. According to opponents of OSAS if you sin once you were either never a Christian or you just fell out of God's hands. You refuse to see what the true meanings of grace mercy are.

I have feed nothing into your mouths, as when I speak and instruct on the fruits of the Spirit and another debates me on this and says not needed then that is initially what they are saying. You can be disobedient and still be saved !!!

It is not one or the other that you either have to be OSAS or sinless perfection, those are both man made titles not stated in the bible anywhere. We do not follow a mans standards or teachings, we follow the Word of God and the Holy Spirit who gives us His truth and knowledge.

There is one question I pose to others and that is where did you get your biblical knowledge? Did you get it from a bible college or another individual, or did the knowledge come from the Holy Spirit without other assistance?

The reason I ask this is because the word of God says that we have no need that any man teach us (1 John 2:27), for the Holy Spirit who is in us will lead us in all truth (John 16:13). Apostle John makes it clear that if we seek the knowledge of truth in the scriptures then going to prayer to God is all we need to do, and He will give us that truth by the Holy Spirit.

 

[KennethC]

Ok well then just one more question for you. Once we become a Christian do you think we can ever fall out of God's hands? I am not talking about us sinning for the sake of grace but when we "are human" and sin because we are human not by an act of repetedly sinning. (I think I said that right). I guess we as humans would call it "accidental sin". Not meaning too but our sinful nature taking over for a bit. And we repent after we sin.

I think what you are talking about is when we backslide or stumble, and no that does not automatically take us out of salvation by God's grace. For it all depends on if you repent and confess that sin when you backslide/stumble, as if you don't repent of it and continue in it then it will lead you to eternal death and not eternal life.

Apostle James covers this in 1 James 1:14-16 where he says only when that sin becomes full grown to where it controls you again then it will lead to eternal death.

Repenting and confessing is a showing that those sins do not control you, as those if true lead one away from continuing to commit those sinful acts.

As for falling out of grace yes Apostle Paul states this can happen in Galatians, and even says in Acts 20 that even the disciples will be drawn away and not spared when they leave the gospel of Christ to go after false teaching.

 

[Jason0047]

You're really good at ignoring what is actually said, while understanding that which is not said.

I tune out comments whereby they have no idea what they are talking about (When I do from much experience). Again, the burden on proof is up to you to prove people do not believe in OSAS here (When folks have already stated such a fact recently).

 

[dcontroversal]

You are right I reject your version of interpretation because it does not align with the scriptures.
Your doctrine pits the teachings and words of the Lord Jesus against the teachings and words of Apostle Paul's, but you refuse to see this even though me and others have shown you clearly how they contradict by how you have been taught.

I have never condemned you nor made unedifying sarcastic remarks to you as you constantly do to me and others, showing you still have areas you need to pray on and let the Holy Spirit help you to correct you in those areas. Let the Holy Spirit instruct and guide you on how to be more loving and edifying in your responses !!!

The things that you call scriptural truths are only based on your understanding as you have been taught to pull scriptures out of the bible and make them stand alone. That is faulty usage of scripture !!!

If you claim to be so knowledgeable in the word why do you use very little of the Sword of God ???

I do not brag and boast about my works as you have never seen me do that on here, so your faulty argument still is at an all time high. You need to stop passing false allegations on others as you will have to answer to God for doing that to others, as you do not know my heart.

I fully trust in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, which is why I will not let you or anybody else take away from His word to claim and teach a gospel of disobedience. You can debate with me all you want on obedience in the faith, but the bible clearly says in Luke 12 and Hebrews 3-4 that those who claim to be in Christ but are disobedient to His teachings and commands will not get eternal life !!!

Re-read your quote as you just lied.....I came across a post the other day where someone made a comment about hearing what I had to say on the subject and you mouthed me behind my back, told them you understood what they were confused and made mouthy comments about what I believe and teach.....

I as well as many have quoted verbatim many verses that prove your theology false and you like Jason listen to no one but your own misguided erroneous interpretations....Just like the Matthew verses you twisted out of context yesterday...saying they LOST their salvation and denying that Jesus said verbatim he NEVER KNEW THEM which means they were NEVER SAVED to begin with.....your very stance makes Christ out to be a liar and your too blind and full of pride to acknowledge your wrong!

 

[Jason0047]

No, but you are -- right?

So you do not believe the Spirit leads a person into all truth?

 

[Jason0047]

Much is given, much is required is referring to gifts, as in spiritual gifts, not material things of this world. But I'm sure you have a disagreement here also, since you disagree with virtually everyone's interpretation of scripture.

Where did I say it was material things? I was talking about the man's handicap that you brought up. Anyways, the passage is talking about God's fair justice in men knowing or not knowing His will and purpose that they need to do for the LORD.

And that servant, who knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[Jason0047]

I don't consider you to be my enemy -- merely a troll.
Enemies, I keep much closer than friends -- trolls, however, I keep much further away.

For,
Proverbs 6:16-19 ESV

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Paul kicked the man who committed fornication out of a church. So a believer can correct other believers. That is not sowing discord but it is called correcting believers on false beliefs.

As for your statement about trolls: The Word of God tells us to speak full of grace seasoned with salt. How exactly are you doing that by still calling me a troll and saying I am worse than an enemy. How is that even a New Testament teaching?

 

[elf3]

I have feed nothing into your mouths, as when I speak and instruct on the fruits of the Spirit and another debates me on this and says not needed then that is initially what they are saying. You can be disobedient and still be saved !!!

It is not one or the other that you either have to be OSAS or sinless perfection, those are both man made titles not stated in the bible anywhere. We do not follow a mans standards or teachings, we follow the Word of God and the Holy Spirit who gives us His truth and knowledge.

There is one question I pose to others and that is where did you get your biblical knowledge? Did you get it from a bible college or another individual, or did the knowledge come from the Holy Spirit without other assistance?

The reason I ask this is because the word of God says that we have no need that any man teach us (1 John 2:27), for the Holy Spirit who is in us will lead us in all truth (John 16:13). Apostle John makes it clear that if we seek the knowledge of truth in the scriptures then going to prayer to God is all we need to do, and He will give us that truth by the Holy Spirit.

Where did I get my Biblical knowledge? Really you are gonna go there? Hmm let's see I grew up in a Christian family. My dad is a pastor my mom taught school in a Christian school. I graduated from a christian school. I took ministry classes through my church. I read many many different theological books on just about every subject by many different authors. My theological library of books is at least 200 books large. I have five diffetent study bibles with commentaries by many different men. I have preached in front of a congregation 10 times as an intern. I have read the Bible and through all of that I rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit for interpretation. I am not better than anyone else. I am not "into" any holier than tho games but sure the heck I have studied more than the average "lay person". This isn't about me but God!

If you wanna play this stupid game...what you got?

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul kicked the man who committed fornication out of a church. So a believer can correct other believers. That is not sowing discord but it is called correcting believers on false beliefs.

As for your statement about trolls: The Word of God tells us to speak full of grace seasoned with salt. How exactly are you doing that by still calling me a troll and saying I am worse than an enemy. How is that even a New Testament teaching?

Paul didn't kick anyone out of the church, but rather recommended the Church at Corinth put the man out...do you even base anything you believe on facts or is it just preconceived erroneous falsehoods!

 

[dcontroversal]

Where did I get my Biblical knowledge? Really you are gonna go there? Hmm let's see I grew up in a Christian family. My dad is a pastor my mom taught school in a Christian school. I graduated from a christian school. I took ministry classes through my church. I read many many different theological books on just about every subject by many different authors. My theological library of books is at least 200 books large. I have five diffetent study bibles with commentaries by many different men. I have preached in front of a congregation 10 times as an intern. I have read the Bible and through all of that I rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit for interpretation. I am not better than anyone else. I am not "into" any holier than tho games but sure the heck I have studied more than the average "lay person". This isn't about me but God!

If you wanna play this stupid game...what you got?

A cracker jack box more than likely!

 

[elf3]

Yinz act like this is some kind of game or something. Jason has to ask 10 questions. You convict me of making my own biblical interpretations by asking "where my Biblical knowledge comes from". Do yinz think this is some kind of joke? Do you think I just came to my own conclusions? I rely on the Holt Spirit for interpretation but yes sometimes we need to read those more knowledgeable than ourselves for help. If you think that is wrong then tell me who you read besides God! Who have you read that "showed" you certain things? Jack T. Chick? Oh I know Jason knows who that is and I expect him to defend his favorite comic publisher.

Oh and by the way I study both sides of an argument before the Holy Spirit shows me truth.

 

[Jason0047]

Paul didn't kick anyone out of the church, but rather recommended the Church at Corinth put the man out...do you even base anything you believe on facts or is it just preconceived erroneous falsehoods!

They followed Paul's instruction to kick him out. Nowhere did I ever believe that he gave him the actual boot physically in person. You like to twist around things that I say that are obvious.

 

[Jason0047]

Oh and yeah sorry I guess i did kind of name you since you don't believe OSAS.

I do not know of anyone here who has said we can still sin and not follow God's commands and be saved. You along with others place those words in our mouths. Since you are failing to understand our point you feed things into our mouths we did not say. You on the other hand do believe in sinless perfection if you refuse OSAS because then you would have to be perfect and sinless to enter heaven. According to opponents of OSAS if you sin once you were either never a Christian or you just fell out of God's hands. You refuse to see what the true meanings of grace mercy are.

But many of you say that your salvation has nothing to do with any kind of good that manifests in your life, though. Many of you say you still can sin and still be saved despite those sins. Once a child of God always a child of God. You believe you cannot be unborn. This means that no matter how bad you lapse back into sin, you are still saved, which is a license to sin or an approval from God that He condones your evil. I mean, I have argued with many on your side of the camp of how 1 John 1:8 is saying how you will always have sin in your life. Meaning, there is never a day you do not sin. But John tells us to sin not. Jesus says to the woman caught in the act of adultery to sin no more. But you take Jesus' s no as meaning yes. For we know even in our own culture that if a woman says "no", it means "no."

 

[Jason0047]

Yinz act like this is some kind of game or something. Jason has to ask 10 questions. You convict me of making my own biblical interpretations by asking "where my Biblical knowledge comes from". Do yinz think this is some kind of joke? Do you think I just came to my own conclusions? I rely on the Holt Spirit for interpretation but yes sometimes we need to read those more knowledgeable than ourselves for help. If you think that is wrong then tell me who you read besides God! Who have you read that "showed" you certain things? Jack T. Chick? Oh I know Jason knows who that is and I expect him to defend his favorite comic publisher.

Oh and by the way I study both sides of an argument before the Holy Spirit shows me truth.

Yeah, somebody else also falsely assumed I learned about the evilness of OSAS because of Jack Chick. Actually, he has no thoughts expressed on OSAS on his website that I know of. What is strange is that an OSAS site claims his teachings are dangerous and he does not hold to OSAS. However, an anti OSAS site says the exact opposite of him. So far he has not made an official declaration on OSAS that I know of.