Tree of "Good and Evil". What is it really?

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Jun 5, 2015
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#1
Ezekiel 31 Give us a glimpse into what was happening in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were not eating an apple as we were taught. The tree was not a green leafy tree under which they sat. The scripture many times uses metaphors to explain simple truths. I think these metaphors come about, because the real meaning has been lost over time. I'm sure the book of Genesis was given by oral tradition for years until written down.

Ezek 31:1-18...., the word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and his hordes: ​​​​​​“‘Who are you like in your greatness? ​​​Consider Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon, ​​​​​​with beautiful branches, like a forest giving shade, ​​​​​​and extremely tall; ​​​​​​its top reached into the clouds. ​​​​​​​The water made it grow; ​​​​​​underground springs made it grow tall. ​​​​​​Rivers flowed all around the place it was planted, ​​​​​​while smaller channels watered all the trees of the field. ​​​​​​​Therefore it grew taller than all the trees of the field; ​​​​​​its boughs grew large and its branches grew long, ​​​​​​because of the plentiful water in its shoots. ​​​​​​​All the birds of the sky nested in its boughs; ​​​​​​under its branches all the beasts of the field gave birth, ​​​​​​in its shade all the great nations lived. ​​​​​​​It was beautiful in its loftiness, in the length of its branches; ​​​​​​for its roots went down deep to plentiful waters. ​​​​​​​The cedars in the garden of God could not eclipse it, ​​​​​​nor could the fir trees match its boughs; ​​​​​​the plane trees were as nothing compared to its branches; ​​​​​​no tree in the garden of God could rival its beauty. ​​​​​​​I made it beautiful with its many branches; ​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
“‘Therefore this is what the sovereign LORD says: Because it was tall in stature, and its top reached into the clouds, and it was proud of its height,
I gave it over to the leader of the nations. He has judged it thoroughly, as its sinfulness deserves. I have thrown it out. Foreigners from the most terrifying nations have cut it down and left it to lie there on the mountains. In all the valleys its branches have fallen, and its boughs lie broken in the ravines of the land. All the peoples of the land have departed from its shade and left it. On its ruins all the birds of the sky will live, and all the wild animals will walk on its branches. For this reason no watered trees will grow so tall; their tops will not reach into the clouds, nor will the well-watered ones grow that high. For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals, with those who descend to the pit. “‘This is what the sovereign LORD says: On the day it went down to Sheol I caused observers to lament. I covered it with the deep and held back its rivers; its plentiful water was restrained. I clothed Lebanon in black for it, and all the trees of the field wilted because of it. I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I threw it down to Sheol, along with those who descend to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and the best of Lebanon, all that were well-watered, were comforted in the earth below. Those who lived in its shade, its allies among the nations, also went down with it to Sheol, to those killed by the sword.Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness? You will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lower parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”

The trees spoken of go back to the Garden of Eden, which means they were thousands of years old. These were not men because men are mentioned in the text. These were beyond men and existed in the Garden of Eden. When Adam was told to tend to the trees of the Garden, he was tending to teachers who bore fruit [teachings]. When Eve brought Adam fruit to eat, it was teachings. The trees are angelic beings who are over countries and existed from the time of the Garden of Eden.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#2
Ezekiel 31 Give us a glimpse into what was happening in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were not eating an apple as we were taught. The tree was not a green leafy tree under which they sat. The scripture many times uses metaphors to explain simple truths. I think these metaphors come about, because the real meaning has been lost over time. I'm sure the book of Genesis was given by oral tradition for years until written down.

Ezek 31:1-18...., the word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and his hordes: ​​​​​​“‘Who are you like in your greatness? ​​​Consider Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon, ​​​​​​with beautiful branches, like a forest giving shade, ​​​​​​and extremely tall; ​​​​​​its top reached into the clouds. ​​​​​​​The water made it grow; ​​​​​​underground springs made it grow tall. ​​​​​​Rivers flowed all around the place it was planted, ​​​​​​while smaller channels watered all the trees of the field. ​​​​​​​Therefore it grew taller than all the trees of the field; ​​​​​​its boughs grew large and its branches grew long, ​​​​​​because of the plentiful water in its shoots. ​​​​​​​All the birds of the sky nested in its boughs; ​​​​​​under its branches all the beasts of the field gave birth, ​​​​​​in its shade all the great nations lived. ​​​​​​​It was beautiful in its loftiness, in the length of its branches; ​​​​​​for its roots went down deep to plentiful waters. ​​​​​​​The cedars in the garden of God could not eclipse it, ​​​​​​nor could the fir trees match its boughs; ​​​​​​the plane trees were as nothing compared to its branches; ​​​​​​no tree in the garden of God could rival its beauty. ​​​​​​​I made it beautiful with its many branches; ​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
“‘Therefore this is what the sovereign LORD says: Because it was tall in stature, and its top reached into the clouds, and it was proud of its height,
I gave it over to the leader of the nations. He has judged it thoroughly, as its sinfulness deserves. I have thrown it out. Foreigners from the most terrifying nations have cut it down and left it to lie there on the mountains. In all the valleys its branches have fallen, and its boughs lie broken in the ravines of the land. All the peoples of the land have departed from its shade and left it. On its ruins all the birds of the sky will live, and all the wild animals will walk on its branches. For this reason no watered trees will grow so tall; their tops will not reach into the clouds, nor will the well-watered ones grow that high. For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals, with those who descend to the pit. “‘This is what the sovereign LORD says: On the day it went down to Sheol I caused observers to lament. I covered it with the deep and held back its rivers; its plentiful water was restrained. I clothed Lebanon in black for it, and all the trees of the field wilted because of it. I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I threw it down to Sheol, along with those who descend to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and the best of Lebanon, all that were well-watered, were comforted in the earth below. Those who lived in its shade, its allies among the nations, also went down with it to Sheol, to those killed by the sword.Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness? You will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lower parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”

The trees spoken of go back to the Garden of Eden, which means they were thousands of years old. These were not men because men are mentioned in the text. These were beyond men and existed in the Garden of Eden. When Adam was told to tend to the trees of the Garden, he was tending to teachers who bore fruit [teachings]. When Eve brought Adam fruit to eat, it was teachings. The trees are angelic beings who are over countries and existed from the time of the Garden of Eden.
No. Don't over-spiritualise everything. The trees were trees. Besides, the Garden of Eden was lost to this world when the Great Flood of Noah's time covered the earth's entirety.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#3
No. Don't over-spiritualise everything. The trees were trees. Besides, the Garden of Eden was lost to this world when the Great Flood of Noah's time covered the earth's entirety.
The text is plain to see. Trees don't envy, or die in the lower parts of the earth among mere mortals. This text points to beings who existed in the garden. Whether or not the garden was destroyed is not the point. The point is that there is more than just angels and men.
​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness?
For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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#4
I've heard teachings like this before and while I don't ascribe to them I believe they raise some interesting points. There's one theory where the tree of knowledge was actually satan and the eating thereof was Eve and then Adam doing the nasty with him, they had been forbidden of course and the knowledge they took from the experience was about the flesh. Again, I'm not a subscriber to the theory, but the first thing they did do is cover their flesh. There's much in these theories that, while maybe not the whole truth, still provide food for thought.

TinTin, I would propose that the garden was not lost in the flood - it still exists. We just haven't seen it since the fall when we were kicked out. Science these days is so fascinating, what with their studies of dark matter/energy. They tell us that 90% of what makes up the universe we can't see or detect except by how it affects what we can see and detect. God tells us there's a whole other realm of existence that we can't see or detect, except by how it affects what we can see and detect - and oh btw He wants His 10% back. The garden never ceased to exist, we just ceased to exist in it. But it's out there and waiting for us - come Lord Jesus!
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#5
I've heard teachings like this before and while I don't ascribe to them I believe they raise some interesting points. There's one theory where the tree of knowledge was actually satan and the eating thereof was Eve and then Adam doing the nasty with him, they had been forbidden of course and the knowledge they took from the experience was about the flesh. Again, I'm not a subscriber to the theory, but the first thing they did do is cover their flesh. There's much in these theories that, while maybe not the whole truth, still provide food for thought.
What is being explored here is the existence of other beings. These beings are referenced to being in the Garden of Eden. I don't delve into how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Just what is presented in the text and if the text does not say then I will not make it say something which is not there. Formulating what Adam and Eve done with satan is just merely conjecture and wild imagination. However, on the other hand if these references refer to other beings, then what were they doing in the garden. What was their interaction with Adam? If there was a being or teacher of knowledge, then what was this knowledge? If Adam and Eve were not supposed to have this knowledge then why was this teacher of knowledge present? The answers must be found in scripture and not in additions and subtractions of the text driven by wild imagination.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,189
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#6
As Christians, we are exhorted to bear fruit.

We know we are not trees, but only {metaphorical} branches, offshoots of the true vine, Jesus Christ. I believe He was the
{metaphorical} tree of Life placed in the garden of Eden; He holds the keys to life and death; all life is in Him; He is author and giver of life etc, and eternal life is promised to those who surrender to and abide in Him (John 15:4-5).

The fruit we are to bear has different aspects to it. One is character building:
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Peter adds to this: make every effort to add to your faith excellence, to excellence, knowledge; to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love. For if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately.

So our life surrendered to God, and our works through faith are fruit, and so are people who come to Christ through us (Rom 1:3; Phil 4:17), and there is also the fruit of our lips as we praise God and witness to others (Heb 13:15).

These are good fruits, partaken of when aligned with the will of God.

Evil fruits would be the result of disobeying God, defying God, following self will in opposition to God's will, severing ourselves from fellowship with Him, etc. That is the fruit Adam and Eve bore and ate (lived). They followed the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life, in turning away from God after being in fellowship with Him. It is what we all do before being regenerated by the Holy Spirit of God.

I think it will be wonderful to be restored to the garden in the new earth. Come LORD Jesus.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#7

The fruit we are to bear has different aspects to it. One is character building:the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Peter adds to this: make every effort to add to your faith excellence, to excellence, knowledge; to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love. For if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately.
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If we apply this thought to the text of the garden then we might have a clue as to what the teachers in the garden were teaching Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were the leaders of mankind. If they were the King and Queen and then the Garden of Eden was from where they were to rule from. Kings have counselors and teachers. Were these beings there to teach them in how to rule as royalty?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,189
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#8
If we apply this thought to the text of the garden then we might have a clue as to what the teachers in the garden were teaching Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were the leaders of mankind. If they were the King and Queen and then the Garden of Eden was from where they were to rule from. Kings have counselors and teachers. Were these beings there to teach them in how to rule as royalty?
Peter gives a pretty good clue, I think, by telling us to become effective and productive in our pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately. A&E forfeited their intimate relationship with God by following self will, guided by the pride of life. The Hebrew nations did the same thing when they rejected God as their "head of state" and insisted on having a man as a ruler/king.
 
Jul 30, 2015
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#9
How do you know what tree feel say or do? Just a point.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#10
How do you know what tree feel say or do? Just a point.
Jesus Christ is described in many ways throughout Scripture, which identifies somewhere around 700 names and titles for Him. For instance, He called Himself a door or a gate, in John 10:7-9. Do you read that literally, or metaphorically?
 
Jul 30, 2015
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#11
I aint big on words Hes the entrance door way what ever its simple really. You know stones can talk dont ya.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#12
How do you know what tree feel say or do? Just a point.
These are not Trees made of wood or leaves. These are symbolic references of beings [non-human] who were in the Garden of Eden according to the Ezekiel text.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,189
29,494
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#13
I aint big on words Hes the entrance door way what ever its simple really. You know stones can talk dont ya.
Well, Jesus said that the stones would cry out to acknowledge Him if people were silenced.

As he (Jesus) was now approaching the path down from the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to praise God joyfully with a loud voice for all the deeds of power that they had seen, saying, “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!” “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

And there is the account of Balaam's talking donkey, and who can forget the talking serpent in the garden?


 
Jun 5, 2015
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#14
I aint big on words Hes the entrance door way what ever its simple really. You know stones can talk dont ya.
Science has proven that all things have a resonating frequency. The rock sing. Scripture says the stars sing. So yes the stones cry out.
 
Jun 5, 2015
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#15
Peter gives a pretty good clue, I think, by telling us to become effective and productive in our pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately. A&E forfeited their intimate relationship with God by following self will, guided by the pride of life. The Hebrew nations did the same thing when they rejected God as their "head of state" and insisted on having a man as a ruler/king.
What ever they did they learned it from the teacher of Good and Evil. First Eve learned it [tasted it] then she taught it to Adam. The fruit is metaphorical of the teachings which they consumed into their spirit.
 
L

lihle

Guest
#16
There were trees, animals and humans( Adam andEve), by trying to explain trees as representing something, we might just be eating from the forbidden fruit ourselves. If its not written in the bible surely God did not reveal to us for a reason, same as Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat frm that tree. With all the science and technology so advance, if God does not want us to know we just won't know
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
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Alabama
#17
The text is plain to see. Trees don't envy, or die in the lower parts of the earth among mere mortals. This text points to beings who existed in the garden. Whether or not the garden was destroyed is not the point. The point is that there is more than just angels and men.
​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness?
For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals.
You see not to be able to grasp the concept of representational language.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#18
When inanimate objects are given human qualities, it is the figure of speech - personification. Plenty of figures in the Bible.
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#19
When inanimate objects are given human qualities, it is the figure of speech - personification. Plenty of figures in the Bible.
Yes, very yes. The Bible is historical truth and it should be read plainly, according to the different genres, but that doesn't mean there's no figurative language in the Bible. There's plenty! This is one such example. If anything, this is poetic God truth talk making reference to the Axis Mundi (World Tree) beliefs of the pagan world. The Axis Mundi concerned the connection between Heaven and Earth and the communication between the two realms.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#20
Yes, very yes. The Bible is historical truth and it should be read plainly, according to the different genres, but that doesn't mean there's no figurative language in the Bible. There's plenty! This is one such example. If anything, this is poetic God truth talk making reference to the Axis Mundi (World Tree) beliefs of the pagan world. The Axis Mundi concerned the connection between Heaven and Earth and the communication between the two realms.
Using figurative language takes nothing away from scripture being literal but puts emphasis upon what is being said. One can say: "The ground is dry." Very plain and simple but when it is said : "The ground is thirsty." It just emphasizes how dry the ground is. Or this: "It's hot outside." or "It's so hot you can fry an egg!" :cool:

 
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