If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

[Viligant_Warrior]

Claiming that I need Christ in my life does not make such a statement true. What is the real test or way that we can have an assurance of knowing Christ? Read 1 John 2:3. It says he that keeps his commandments knows him; And 1 John 2:4 says that he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him. Also, see John 14:23 and John 14:15. But thank you for answering my questions. When I have time later, I will try and answer in love with Scripture in return.

May God bless you.
And may His love shine upon you.

You know, Jason, you never "tried to answer in love with Scripture" anywhere on this thread. You decided you didn't need to, because you didn't think I'd read your "wisdom" since I dismissed you as unsaved.

Well, you're right, I probably wouldn't have, because as I said in my next post after this one to which you responded, an unbeliever has nothing to teach me. And you, Jason, are an unbeliever. You don't understand the Gospel, you are sold out to the doctrines of heretics modern-day Judaizers who would force you to follow the Law rather than admit to the grace of God.

However, if you were truly a Christian, you would have taken the time to respond out of love, instead of being self-centered, egotistical, and vain to the point that you would not post your responses for discussion. The truth is, Jason, you had no responses. If you had any, they would have come to you immediately upon reading my post.

But you don't rely on the Holy Spirit who would have given you those answers, because the Holy Spirit doesn't teach what you believe. You need to take your false, evil doctrine of legalism, sinless perfection, and lost salvation elsewhere, because here it will not fly.

 

[KennethC]

Are you guys 12 in 6th grade...I am blunt period....I don't play stupid games as eternity is at stake....You guys can dish it out all veiled and under questions or mouthy assumed comments and when you get called out for it you start crying foul.....And what is funny is out of the 3 or four times someone has judge me and pulled the bully card it has been the workers for salvation crew or the sinless perfection crew.....your words Jason do not cut me...nor am I convicted by your post or the post above....the bible is clear...many men, inspired of God used sarcasm and sarcastic remarks, used words like hypocrites, white washed coffins, blind, lost, workers of evil etc. and were inspired to do so.....So...those who are offended need to not be so easily offended....if you cannot deal with a little heat from me or others...what will you do when it really hits the fan in the near future for those who will make a stand for Christ.......? Fold, apostate from the faith and sell out to the beast and his system?

You can try and justify your attitude towards me and others all you want but that does not change the fact that the bible says we are to learn to bridle our tongues. When you reprove or rebuke another you are to follow it up with exhortation and edification, not just leave it at sarcastic remarks and even go as far as condemn another.

We are called to be overseers to exhort and edify one another, not break them down and condemn them.

Take Apostle Paul for example whenever he rebuked another believer he always followed it up with words of encouragement to edify them and guide them in the proper direction.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Before I answer this post and the other one, I have one question. Are you against Pacifism?

Totally irrelevant and a dodge to avoid answering either post.

 

[Jason0047]

It would be the height of lunacy to endeavor to prove anything to you. You are far too wise in your own conceits.

Part of human nature is to hate in others what we see in ourselves. This is one reason we must learn compassion and forgiveness toward others especially the less fortunate. Even on the cross He held it not against His malefactors.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Don't do it for me, do it for others who come across this thread reading. For why would you want to suppress what you are teaching? Is your gospel really a doctrine shrouded in mystery that you can't talk about it? In other words, do not do it for me, do it for your fellow man or neighbor. Help them to see what you are talking about (even if it may not convince me). Are you capable of answering those questions? Or are they too hard? I challenge and encourage you to do so as for you to show that you are on the side of the Truth (with not holding anything back). For God's Word says we are to Preach the Word.

 

[Jason0047]

Totally irrelevant and a dodge to avoid answering either post.

First, I what I am about to say is not an attack against you personally and nor does it mean that I do not love you as a person. It is merely my belief against what I believe to be a false doctrine.

Second, I don't believe it is irrelevant. I believe the two false beliefs are related to one another. Granted, not everyone who believes in OSAS denies Biblical Pacifism. But it appears to be in the majority view of those who do hold to OSAS, though. For most (not all) OSAS Proponents reject Pacifism. Why? Because they are trying to protect their life. It is about self. Just as OSAS is about self or sin. They are also both about a lack of unbelief or lack of faith in God and his power (According to His Word). For in OSAS, they do not believe that God has the power to help all believers to stop from sinning. For they believe it is impossible for the believer to stop sinning in this life; And in Anti-Pacifism: they do not believe God has the power to protect them. So both stems from a lack of faith in God and His power and in what His Word says.

 

[KennethC]

He said yesterday he is called of God to preach against OSAS...only one god would call someone to preach against eternal security to keep people lost....and he is described as the god (small g) of this age!

See now that is the false judgmental quotes I just brought up just a little while back, just because you do not agree with another does not make them condemned and this works both ways.

You do realize that maybe the Holy Spirit has not felt to reveal this side of the teachings to you yet, or maybe He is now through others. Instead of judging others who disagree with your stance, start exhorting and use edification toward them.

Remember that Jesus said the better way to handle others who you feel are wrong and persecuting others is to show love, do good, and pray for them. By doing this you are heaping coals on their heads for we are not to judge and condemn others.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Second, I don't believe it is irrelevant. I believe the two false beliefs are related to one another.

That is the single most absurd, ridiculous, asinine statement I've ever read on this board, even the ones I've already read from you. It's intellectually and emotionally ignorant.

And I'm a 20-year United States Army combat veteran, helicopter pilot, unit commander, retired major, you dingbat!

If you even pretended to care about the people you "preach" to, that would come as no surprise to you, given I've discussed it often on dozens of threads.

That you don't know that, however, is not surprising to me, because it has long been clear to me that not only are you unsaved, but you are self-centered, egotistical, and vain, with no care for anyone but yourself and your image. Some "emissary of Christ" you are! Fraud!

 

[notuptome]

Don't do it for me, do it for others who come across this thread reading. For why would you want to suppress what you are teaching? Is your gospel really a doctrine shrouded in mystery that you can't talk about it? In other words, do not do it for me, do it for your fellow man or neighbor. Help them to see what you are talking about (even if it may not convince me). Are you capable of answering those questions? Or are they too hard? I challenge and encourage you to do so as for you to show that you are on the side of the Truth (with not holding anything back). For God's Word says we are to Preach the Word.

No mystery just hidden from the eyes of unbelievers. Gods grace is greater than all our sin. Gods grace saved me, is saving me and will save me all through out eternity.

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

What indeed. Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[valiant]

See now that is the false judgmental quotes I just brought up just a little while back, just because you do not agree with another does not make them condemned and this works both ways.

You do realize that maybe the Holy Spirit has not felt to reveal this side of the teachings to you yet, or maybe He is now through others. Instead of judging others who disagree with your stance, start exhorting and use edification toward them.

Remember that Jesus said the better way to handle others who you feel are wrong and persecuting others is to show love, do good, and pray for them. By doing this you are heaping coals on their heads for we are not to judge and condemn others.

LoL I didn't used to believe in eternal security. Then the Holy Spirit showed me the truth. Seems He is working the opposite way round with me. And He has confirmed it to me over the years. Maybe its you the Holy Spirit hasn't yet shown this side of His teaching to? After all you're still a comparative babe.

 

[Jason0047]

You know, Jason, you never "tried to answer in love with Scripture" anywhere on this thread. You decided you didn't need to, because you didn't think I'd read your "wisdom" since I dismissed you as unsaved.

Well, you're right, I probably wouldn't have, because as I said in my next post after this one to which you responded, an unbeliever has nothing to teach me. And you, Jason, are an unbeliever. You don't understand the Gospel, you are sold out to the doctrines of heretics modern-day Judaizers who would force you to follow the Law rather than admit to the grace of God.

However, if you were truly a Christian, you would have taken the time to respond out of love, instead of being self-centered, egotistical, and vain to the point that you would not post your responses for discussion. The truth is, Jason, you had no responses. If you had any, they would have come to you immediately upon reading my post.

But you don't rely on the Holy Spirit who would have given you those answers, because the Holy Spirit doesn't teach what you believe. You need to take your false, evil doctrine of legalism, sinless perfection, and lost salvation elsewhere, because here it will not fly.

Well, I am a believer in Jesus Christ and I do not promote legalism. Legalism is adhering to a set of rules alone externally to be saved without the power or salvation of God. Usually this involves one obeying the Law of Moses. But the Law of Moses is no longer in effect anymore. But the Law of Christ under the New Testament is in effect, though. For how can obeying your LORD Jesus Christ be equated with legalism? Did not Jesus say, why do you call me LORD, LORD, if you do not do what I say? Does it sound like Jesus wants you to do what He says or not? Does not Hebrews 5:9 say that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him? Can a person deny Him in works? Titus 1:16 seems to thinks so. Did not Paul essentially say that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing? (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

See, God transforms you spiritually whereby He then will help you to keep His laws and statutes. See Ezekiel 36:26-27. So it is not you who does the work. But it is God working in you. How can that be Legalism if it is God doing the work? In other words, first comes salvation (or God living in you), then comes the fruit of what that salvation looks like. For Jesus said you will know false prophets by their fruit; And even Paul said to examine whether you be in Christ or not unless you be reprobate.

As for Sinless Perfection (or the teaching that a believer is to stop sinning): Well, did Jesus lie when He said to the woman caught in the act of adultery to "sin no more."? For how can Jesus say, "sin no more" if a person really can't sin no more? Does that not sound deceptive on his part if nobody could not sin no more?

As for losing salvation: Who was Jesus talking to in Matthew 6:15? Do you think he was talking to unbelievers? If he was talking to unbelievers, how would it help them to forgive? For they could forgive everyone in the world and it would do them no good. They would still need to accept Christ in order to be saved. So we know Jesus was talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. This means then that believers must forgive, in order to be forgiven by the Father. They are given a choice. Forgive or not forgive. And there are consequences to each of those choices.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

That is the single most absurd, ridiculous, asinine statement I've ever read on this board, even the ones I've already read from you. It's intellectually and emotionally ignorant.

And I'm a 20-year United States Army combat veteran, helicopter pilot, unit commander, retired major, you dingbat!

If you even pretended to care about the people you "preach" to, that would come as no surprise to you, given I've discussed it often on dozens of threads.

That you don't know that, however, is not surprising to me, because it has long been clear to me that not only are you unsaved, but you are self-centered, egotistical, and vain, with no care for anyone but yourself and your image. Some "emissary of Christ" you are! Fraud!

Airborne! Thank you Sir!

 

[prodigal]

Well, it is a believer's job (2 Timothy 4:2).

no its not, if someone is condeming other people for not believing what they belief and continually doing it then where does it say to continue rebuking over and over, i suggest verse 3 & 4 represents the situation better. lets take the whole verses instead of the snippets that can mean whatever you want them to mean.. i could show snippets of scripture to show what attitude we should take when someone continues condemming others and doesn't respond to any kind of rebuke but is there any point. you know everything surely theres nothing you could learn from anybody else and lets face it over a dozen have tried. the verse you gave was a verse that is designed to show the attitude of 1 saved person to another person and you clearly suggest that those that dont believe as you do are not saved. so if thats true the verse should be addressed to you not me the unsaved one. and if i am saved and its addressed to me well how many rebukes do you want

[h=1]2 Timothy 4New International Version (NIV)[/h]4 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

 

[Jason0047]

That is the single most absurd, ridiculous, asinine statement I've ever read on this board, even the ones I've already read from you. It's intellectually and emotionally ignorant.

And I'm a 20-year United States Army combat veteran, helicopter pilot, unit commander, retired major, you dingbat!

If you even pretended to care about the people you "preach" to, that would come as no surprise to you, given I've discussed it often on dozens of threads.

That you don't know that, however, is not surprising to me, because it has long been clear to me that not only are you unsaved, but you are self-centered, egotistical, and vain, with no care for anyone but yourself and your image. Some "emissary of Christ" you are! Fraud!

Your insults roll off me like water and do not offend me in the slightest. Why? Because I love you in Christ Jesus no matter what bad you may say against me falsely.

Now, I do believe God uses the army and the police for his purposes of carring out His divine plan just as God uses evil angels to carry out his divine plan (of which we see in the story of Christ (and his crucifixion) and in the story of Job), For God even used the evil of Joseph's brothers to accomplish His divine plan of goodness. But does that mean God approves of all those he uses for his glory? No, of course not.

So while God has ministers of justice (like the police and the army), that does not mean God calls His people to be his instruments of justice today. God calls us to preach the gospel and to love and to pray for our enemies. How can one be loving and praying for their enemy if they are killing him? Doesn't make any sense. But see what you will; However, please know I will be praying for you, though. For I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.

Anyways, may God's love, peace, and blessings shine upon you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


....

 

[KennethC]

LoL I didn't used to believe in eternal security. Then the Holy Spirit showed me the truth. Seems He is working the opposite way round with me. And He has confirmed it to me over the years. Maybe its you the Holy Spirit hasn't yet shown this side of His teaching to? After all you're still a comparative babe.

Well of what I have seen from your posts is that what you say comes more from Augustine's 4th century doctrine then from the Holy Spirit. Because you have even said in the past that you believe what the Holy Spirit says, yet you stated as Augustine that falling away/departing from the faith is impossible.

The Holy Spirit on the other hand in 1 Timothy 4 expressly said that some will depart from the faith !!!

So if what is being said to you is that falling away and departing from the faith is impossible then it is not coming from the Holy Spirit as He says it does and will happen.

 

[dcontroversal]

You can try and justify your attitude towards me and others all you want but that does not change the fact that the bible says we are to learn to bridle our tongues. When you reprove or rebuke another you are to follow it up with exhortation and edification, not just leave it at sarcastic remarks and even go as far as condemn another.

We are called to be overseers to exhort and edify one another, not break them down and condemn them.

Take Apostle Paul for example whenever he rebuked another believer he always followed it up with words of encouragement to edify them and guide them in the proper direction.

I don't recall posting to you Kenneth so another moot point on your part.......and I have seen you make comments about other people interjecting themselves into a thread that they were not immediately involved in...take your own advice and mind your own business......are add something constructive instead of judging me which is your main complaint against several others in this thread.....there is a word for that...you know when you judge others for things you do yourself.....!

 

[Jason0047]

no its not, if someone is condeming other people for not believing what they belief and continually doing it then where does it say to continue rebuking over and over, i suggest verse 3 & 4 represents the situation better. lets take the whole verses instead of the snippets that can mean whatever you want them to mean.. i could show snippets of scripture to show what attitude we should take when someone continues condemming others and doesn't respond to any kind of rebuke but is there any point. you know everything surely theres nothing you could learn from anybody else and lets face it over a dozen have tried. the verse you gave was a verse that is designed to show the attitude of 1 saved person to another person and you clearly suggest that those that dont believe as you do are not saved. so if thats true the verse should be addressed to you not me the unsaved one. and if i am saved and its addressed to me well how many rebukes do you want

2 Timothy 4New International Version (NIV)

4 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. 5 But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.

No. God rebukes those who want to remain in error many times because He loves them and wants them to repent of their evils. But if they persist in their evil ways, in time, they will be destroyed.

"Whoever remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed--without remedy" (Proverbs 29:1 NIV).

 

[dcontroversal]

See now that is the false judgmental quotes I just brought up just a little while back, just because you do not agree with another does not make them condemned and this works both ways.

You do realize that maybe the Holy Spirit has not felt to reveal this side of the teachings to you yet, or maybe He is now through others. Instead of judging others who disagree with your stance, start exhorting and use edification toward them.

Remember that Jesus said the better way to handle others who you feel are wrong and persecuting others is to show love, do good, and pray for them. By doing this you are heaping coals on their heads for we are not to judge and condemn others.

That is not a false quote...that is a direct quote made by HIM.......so...before you make a false allegation about quotes I suggest you read every post as that is exactly what he said!

 

[WoundedWarrior]

Your insults roll off me like water and do not offend me in the slightest. Why? Because I love you in Christ Jesus no matter what bad you may say against me falsely.

Now, I do believe God uses the army and the police for his purposes of carring out His divine plan just as God uses evil angels to carry out his divine plan (of which we see in the story of Christ (and his crucifixion) and in the story of Job), For God even used the evil of Joseph's brothers to accomplish His divine plan of goodness. But does that mean God approves of all those he uses for his glory? No, of course not.

So while God has ministers of justice (like the police and the army), that does not mean God calls His people to be his instruments of justice today. God calls us to preach the gospel and to love and to pray for our enemies. How can one be loving and praying for their enemy if they are killing him? Doesn't make any sense. But see what you will; However, please know I will be praying for you, though. For I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.

Anyways, may God's love, peace, and blessings shine upon you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


....

Way to miss the point...again.
Way to divert to another topic...again.

 

[Jason0047]

No mystery just hidden from the eyes of unbelievers. Gods grace is greater than all our sin. Gods grace saved me, is saving me and will save me all through out eternity.

Ac 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

What indeed. Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Well, it is a mystery if you are not clear and upfront with me in answering my questions (So as to show others you are being truthful and straight with them). For your statements above are vague and do not really answer the issue of morality or God's goodness.

 

[KennethC]

That is not a false quote...that is a direct quote made by HIM.......so...before you make a false allegation about quotes I suggest you read every post as that is exactly what he said!

That is not a true quote made by the Lord for even He said that many will fall away in Matthew 24:10, and the Holy Spirit and Apostle Paul both say this as well that many will fall away and depart from the faith to give heed to false teachings.

I posted Acts 20:28-31 a couple of times now from the Apostle Paul who clearly in that passage says that disciples will be drawn away by false teaching and will not be spared when they do this. He says disciples and the only way to be a disciple of Christ is by believing in Him and getting baptized in His name as Matthew 28:16-20 clearly says.