If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

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K

KennethC

Guest
#621
#621
dcontroversal said:
I don't recall posting to you Kenneth so another moot point on your part.......and I have seen you make comments about other people interjecting themselves into a thread that they were not immediately involved in...take your own advice and mind your own business......are add something constructive instead of judging me which is your main complaint against several others in this thread.....there is a word for that...you know when you judge others for things you do yourself.....!
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False statement to make me look bad as I was not the one who interjected you into a thread that you were not a part of, and I have never brought up another person to another person to belittle them to them.

WoundedWarrior even asked me just a little bit back in all my times of stating behavior from some I have never said their names. He asked me to say who I was talking about, and I told him if he PMed me I would give names but that was all.

The instance you are bringing up once again was when another brought you into the equation and said you would give me the truth. I told him we already had our discussions on this topic and how me and others have tried to show you as well when you were wrong. I did not call you names, belittle you, or condemn you in that conversation !!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#623
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#623
KennethC said:
False statement to make me look bad as I was not the one who interjected you into a thread that you were not a part of, and I have never brought up another person to another person to belittle them to them.

WoundedWarrior even asked me just a little bit back in all my times of stating behavior from some I have never said their names. He asked me to say who I was talking about, and I told him if he PMed me I would give names but that was all.

The instance you are bringing up once again was when another brought you into the equation and said you would give me the truth. I told him we already had our discussions on this topic and how me and others have tried to show you as well when you were wrong. I did not call you names, belittle you, or condemn you in that conversation !!!
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Whatever...I forget your perfect, never sin and never do the same things you accuse others of.....!
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#624
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#624
KennethC said:
Where did I ever say I condone evil ???

That is a false statement from you toward me, and we are called by the Holy Spirit to be overseers of the flock, not condemn others of the flock even if they are walking improperly.

For we are called to exhort and edify after we have reproved and rebuked by using the word, but we are never to just up and straight out condemn others who do not agree with our understanding of scripture.

You do realize that the Holy Spirit may not have revealed that part of falling away or departing from the faith yet, and through us the Holy Spirit is bringing that message to them. Still if they don't accept what we give them on this subject it does not say condemn them from here. It says dust your feet off and move on and ignore them !!!
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Dear Ken:

I am not claiming you said that you condone sin.

My message was written generically from a third person perspective or to a general audience so as to speak to those who want to receive it or not.

For you know I care about you deeply. I also respect and agree with much of what you say. But I cannot in good conscience go against what I believe to be correct and right by God's Word. I strongly believe that a believer will not say that they will forever be in their sins because Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery to.... "sin no more." I also believe 1 Peter 4:1 means what it says. That they that suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin. I also believe Galatians 5:24 that says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. I believe Romans 6:14 that says that sin shall not have dominion over you. I believe David when he said that he hid God's Word within his heart so that he was not to sin against His LORD. I believe Jesus when He says that we are to pray so as not to be led into temptation. How can one sin if they are not led into temptation? I say this because I believe Jesus said for us to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. The Heavenly Father was perfect because He is Holy and cannot sin. To go against that is go against the goodness that the LORD commands of us. For our first step in this... is to believe. From there, it is a work of the Spirit and a walk by faith in His Word to make overcoming sin a reality.

Anyways, I love you brother; And I know we disagree on a lot here, but I do hope you pray over the verses I brought forth.

Please be well.
And may God bless you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


....
 
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prodigal

Guest
#625
#625
Jason0047 said:
No. God rebukes those who want to remain in error many times because He loves them and wants them to repent of their evils. But if they persist in their evil ways, in time, they will be destroyed.

"Whoever remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed--without remedy" (Proverbs 29:1 NIV).
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as i said your never wrong, your find a snippet of scripture to say what ever you have decided to say, thats not edifying to no one but just pleases your ego. so i will leave this thread alone and use my energies doing more edifying things, and maybe when god comes back from holiday you can let him have his job back.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#626
#626
dcontroversal said:
Whatever...I forget your perfect, never sin and never do the same things you accuse others of.....!
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Again false as I have never said that I never sin, as I constantly say that believers can and will stumble at times !!!
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#627
#627
Jason0047 said:
Your insults roll off me like water and do not offend me in the slightest. Why? Because I love you in Christ Jesus no matter what bad you may say against me falsely.

Now, I do believe God uses the army and the police for his purposes of carring out His divine plan just as God uses evil angels to carry out his divine plan (of which we see in the story of Christ (and his crucifixion) and in the story of Job), For God even used the evil of Joseph's brothers to accomplish His divine plan of goodness. But does that mean God approves of all those he uses for his glory? No, of course not.

So while God has ministers of justice (like the police and the army), that does not mean God calls His people to be his instruments of justice today. God calls us to preach the gospel and to love and to pray for our enemies. How can one be loving and praying for their enemy if they are killing him? Doesn't make any sense. But see what you will; However, please know I will be praying for you, though. For I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.

Anyways, may God's love, peace, and blessings shine upon you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


....
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You're a fool. Yes, preach the Gospel. Pray for and love your enemies. But if you expect it do anything for you as the unbeliever you are when ISIS comes to behead you, I truly pity you awakening before the Lord Jesus Christ whom you will hear say, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you worker of lawlessness!"

Why? You live by the Mosaic Law while denying you do so, you falsely rename it the "law of Christ," and you don't even understand what the phrase "law of Christ" means! How could you? You are not a believer! No believer, reading the words of Christ, can possibly think his salvation depends on his/her acts, his "do's" or on his/her "don'ts."

It is not what Christ teaches. Clearly Christ teaches salvation is through grace alone, by faith alone, by the work of Christ alone, according to the Scriptures alone, to the glory of God alone! Nothing you can do is ever going to be good enough to earn anything from Christ! You want us to believe our sin condemns us as believers, but utterly fail to grasp and understand that no matter how good you manage to be, it will never, ever be good enough!

So you are indeed a fool, condemned where you stand, and until you embrace Jesus Christ and Him crucified as your only hope, you will remain a fool, and condemned.

Sadly, you are so sold out to your own self-centered, egotistical, vain attempts to impossibly "be good enough" to earn something that you aren't fit to have. Wrap yourself in your works, your preaching, your exhortations and pretend they render you righteous. They are filthy rags.

Jesus wants your heart, so He can use your hands, feet, and tongue. You can't give those to Him until you give Him your heart.

You haven't, and I doubt you ever will.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#628
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#628
Jason0047 said:
Well, it is a mystery if you are not clear and upfront with me in answering my questions (So as to show others you are being truthful and straight with them). For your statements above are vague and do not really answer the issue of morality or God's goodness.
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It's not a matter of morality. It's a matter of scripture stating that the natural man cannot or will not understand the things of God which are Spiritual.

Morality is vanity. Christ is salvation. God alone is perfect. To be with God you must be made perfect. Perfect is found only, only, in the righteousness of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Self righteousness is not righteousness at all but vanity.

Repent.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#629
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#629
Jason0047 said:
Dear Ken:

I am not claiming you said that you condone sin.

My message was written generically from a third person perspective or to a general audience so as to speak to those who want to receive it or not.

For you know I care about you deeply. I also respect and agree with much of what you say. But I cannot in good conscience go against what I believe to be correct and right by God's Word. I strongly believe that a believer will not say that they will forever be in their sins because Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery to.... "sin no more." I also believe 1 Peter 4:1 means what it says. That they that suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin. I also believe Galatians 5:24 that says that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. I believe Romans 6:14 that says that sin shall not have dominion over you. I believe David when he said that he hid God's Word within his heart so that he was not to sin against His LORD. I believe Jesus when He says that we are to pray so as not to be led into temptation. How can one sin if they are not led into temptation? I say this because I believe Jesus said for us to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. The Heavenly Father was perfect because He is Holy and cannot sin. To go against that is go against the goodness that the LORD commands of us. For our first step in this... is to believe. From there, it is a work of the Spirit and a walk by faith in His Word to make overcoming sin a reality.

Anyways, I love you brother; And I know we disagree on a lot here, but I do hope you pray over the verses I brought forth.

Please be well.
And may God bless you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


....
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Dear Ken:

I also wanted to add: I did change half way thru my post to ask you questions personally. But my message in regards to "condoning sin" was not specifically saying that you said that with any specific words on your part. Granted, I do believe those who deny in saying that believers cannot stop sinning are denying Scripture in what it says. I believe some (and not all do this) so as to justify their sin. I do not know what is in your heart Ken, but I do know here at CC, you are a man of integrity with your words and you are man who stands up for what is right. That to me gives me great respect for you and it would make me count you as a brother.

For you always tell others to turn away from sin and to chase after holiness.
For me, that makes my heart sing.
However, with others, I never get that impression that they are promoting in walking in God's good ways (By what they say and believe).

Anyways, may God bless you Ken.

Peace be unto you.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


...
 
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WoundedWarrior

Guest
#630
#630
Jason0047 said:
Are you capable of answering those questions? Or are they too hard?
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<-- Please note: This can be perceived as very offensive to some.

Slow down, there, boss man (is that better than "dude"?).
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#631
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#631
prodigal said:
as i said your never wrong, your find a snippet of scripture to say what ever you have decided to say, thats not edifying to no one but just pleases your ego. so i will leave this thread alone and use my energies doing more edifying things, and maybe when god comes back from holiday you can let him have his job back.
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Can you be out of fellowship and be saved? Well, surely if you believe the verse you quote in your Avatar, then this cannot be (if that is indeed what you believe).
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#632
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#632
Some here are saying I am getting off track. Okay then. Let's focus back on the heart of the questions of this thread (that really never went answered) and get back on track.

How it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved? How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil? How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
 
D

der

Guest
#633
#633
Brother you are so right, because people who believe you're once saved, you're always necessarily saved, are like the devil with Eve in the Garden of Eden, when he told her, Ye shall not surely die. And God told them that they would surely die if they disobeyed him. Now the Bible says in Revelation 22.14, Blessed are they which do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. And Jesus said in John 14.21, He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me. These scriptures show that if a saved person refuses to continue to obey God is lost, and lost forever. Now in 1John 5.16 it says, If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he will give him life which sins a sin not unto death. There is a SIN UNTO DEATH (spiritual death, being lost of course). I do not say that he should pray for it. For a saved person to commit sins unto death like adultery, or fornication they must repent of their sin, and be restored to the church according to Revelation 2.5 Repent, and do the first works; and Galatians 6.1 Brethren if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness. Even Romans 8.13 says, If you live after the flesh you will die (spiritual death, natural death wouldn't make sense); but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you will live. Ephesians 5.6 says Let no man deceive you with vain words (OSAS): for because of these things the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. Remember He that does his commandments, will have right to the tree of life (Revelation 22.14). So according to the scriptures as we see OSAS (once saved always saved) is false doctrine. May God bless you to see this truth. Amen
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#634
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#634
Jason0047 said:
Some here are saying I am getting off track. Okay then. Let's focus back on the heart of the questions of this thread (that really never went answered) and get back on track.

How it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved? How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil? How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
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It is based on the depth of the relationship.

You can be at odds with your relatives but you are still related. God is not my adversary but my Father in heaven. Love trans sends my imperfections. God is able to see past my present imperfection and view the future perfection I have in Christ because of grace. My sin in Gods eyes has been removed as far that the east is from the west from me. Only God could do it and only He has done it.

As usual your questions are answered many times over but never with the answer you want. Not much prospect of that changing in the near future.

An old evangelist once remarked that for two fellows to have fellowship the must be in the same ship. Amos 3:3 how can two walk together except the be agreed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#635
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#635
notuptome said:
It's not a matter of morality. It's a matter of scripture stating that the natural man cannot or will not understand the things of God which are Spiritual.

Morality is vanity. Christ is salvation. God alone is perfect. To be with God you must be made perfect. Perfect is found only, only, in the righteousness of Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:21.
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Morality.......is......vanity? What in the world? Morality is the upholding of God's goodness and righteous ways. It's thou shalt not murder. Are you for murder? It's thou shalt not steal. Do you steal? It's thou shalt not commit adultery. Do you commit adultery? Paul said, be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. He says be not deceived in regards to this matter. He then lists various sins like hate, murder, theft, adultery, idolatry, and drunkenness.

Self righteousness is not righteousness at all but vanity.
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Never said it was self righteousness. I do not believe in self righteousness but I believe Christ works His righteousness in me by Him moving within my life to help me to obey Him. See Ezekiel 36:26-27.

Repent.
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Repent from what?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14).

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. (Proverbs 28:13).

Peter said to Simon the Sorcerer (after he had sought to purchase the power of Holy Spirit),

"....your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I perceive that you are in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." (Acts 8:21-23).
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#636
#636
Jason0047 said:
How it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved? How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil? How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
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Has it occurred to you that those to whom you repeatedly ask this question would never dare take so lightly so great a grace freely given in Christ ? (and if by chance they fell, it would render their heart broken). Matter of fact, your question is not something that would enter the minds of most. I find it odd and somewhat peculiar that it would yours. Think about that.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#637
#637
Jason0047 said:
Some here are saying I am getting off track. Okay then. Let's focus back on the heart of the questions of this thread (that really never went answered) and get back on track.
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I answered all ten of your questions. That you do not like the answers, that those answers point up the fact of your lack of position in Christ, isn't my problem. Please refrain from lying, in addition to all your other arrogant sins.

Jason0047 said:
How it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved? How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil? How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
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Asked and answered, thoroughly. Again, refute what was said, with valid, in-context Scriptures, or be silent, Unbeliever.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#638
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#638
Viligant_Warrior said:
I answered all ten of your questions. That you do not like the answers, that those answers point up the fact of your lack of position in Christ, isn't my problem. Please refrain from lying, in addition to all your other arrogant sins.

Asked and answered, thoroughly. Again, refute what was said, with valid, in-context Scriptures, or be silent, Unbeliever.
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As a matter of fact...numerous people answered his questions....but no way he will recognize and or acknowledge that his statement about them never being answered was a lie.....and or a misrepresentation of the truth!
 
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WoundedWarrior

Guest
#639
#639
Jason0047 said:
Some here are saying I am getting off track. Okay then. Let's focus back on the heart of the questions of this thread (that really never went answered) and get back on track.
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I'm good with this;
and perhaps we should wait until we all agree;
before we begin a "heated" debate;
we could start with introductions;

Jason0047 said:
How it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved? How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil? How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
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So, since you've already jumped past what I would typically expect from a normal conversation or a normal debate,
I guess I have learned from this;
I've learned that it might be wise;
and/or it might be beneficial;
to refrain from discussions;
with people who have skipped-over;
these normal pieces;
of human communication.

So, Jason, Thank you for helping me improve my communication.

As for your question(s):

I'd like to first break them down;

Jason0047 said:
How it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved
Click to expand...
Jason0047 said:
How exactly is that not a license to sin or God approving of your evil?
Click to expand...
Jason0047 said:
How is it a good and moral thing for God to let you sin and still be saved?
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Man, even after separating the questions (to make it easier to understand what you are trying to communicate to us),
I find myself struggling to find the most appropriate manner in which to address your question(s).

Jason0047 said:
How it is okay to be out of fellowship (no doubt because of sin) and still be saved
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Even after reading several (lots) of your posts throughout the past few days,
I still find it difficult to discern exactly what you're asking;
-long pause-
And now, after reflecting for a while,
I'm thinking: These aren't even the exact original questions (Post #1)!
:)
And now, I recall:
I did not take your Original Post (OP) seriously, because of my experience(s) with you in a previous thread!

So, here we are,
639 posts later.

I will play your game, one last time.
Tonight, I will consider your questions (Post #1).
Expect a well-thought-out response in the near future.

Jason, though I cannot personally see it (perhaps due to my own weakness),
thank you for your patience.

In Christ Jesus,
-WW
 
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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#640
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#640
hey guys long time no visit this thread. miss anything important or the same ol', same ol ?
haha

anyway, i was reading 2 Peter today..
can i share? (from chapter 1)

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
​

i noticed a couple of things:
Peter says we have already obtained a few things before he encourages us to add "virtue" --
a precious faith equal to the apostles.
all things pertaining to life and godliness.
great and precious promises.
part in the divine nature.

and he says because we have these things, we should be busy to add virtue to our faith.

of those who don't add virtue, knowledge, self-control.. and ultimately love - he does not say they have lost the promises, lost the faith, lost "salvation" -- only that they lose capacity to see, becoming so nearsighted that they are almost blind. blindness is not death. blindness is not separation from our Savior. as it is we await the return of the true Light.

what do you think about that?

"have a nice day" :)
 
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