For those who say they were saved before they spoke in tongues....
- Thread starter Saint-John
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S
Beloved 
God is love. All praise and glory to God.
This Scripture (and many others) has been highlighted to me after reading through this amazing post:
1John 16-24
And I would also like to remind everyone, of this:
2Peter 1:5-8
It is amazing to have this Christian chat site, where we can have full-on holy discussions, while hiding behind our avatars.
We are not on facebook.
While we are here - we are representing Jesus!,,, and all of heaven can see us, and He knows our hearts.
I love my Father in heaven, and Jesus, and Holy Spirit. I love them with all my heart and soul and mind and strength.
Thankyou for showing me what love is Father. I am ever Yours.
God bless you all brothers and sisters in Christ..... And remember this....He is watching us, right now. How wonderful is that!
God is love. All praise and glory to God.
This Scripture (and many others) has been highlighted to me after reading through this amazing post:
1John 16-24
And I would also like to remind everyone, of this:
2Peter 1:5-8
It is amazing to have this Christian chat site, where we can have full-on holy discussions, while hiding behind our avatars.
We are not on facebook.
While we are here - we are representing Jesus!,,, and all of heaven can see us, and He knows our hearts.
I love my Father in heaven, and Jesus, and Holy Spirit. I love them with all my heart and soul and mind and strength.
Thankyou for showing me what love is Father. I am ever Yours.
God bless you all brothers and sisters in Christ.....
And remember this....He is watching us, right now. How wonderful is that!
M
The Spirit is more than tongues, it's love, it's a changed life.
Tongues is a manifestation of the Spirit, used when God wills and given when the Spirit wills. Think about it. If you have a gift does it come and go or is it always active? The Holy Spirit is a gift that is always active, not just when you pray or in church. He is there when you read scripture and understand it, He's active when you are witnessing and rememeber scripture, he's active when you are struggling and need help, he's there when you need comfort and provides a Word from God. Tongues on the other hand comes and goes because it's not a gift but a manifestation. Point is... He is the keys! You are the car. The Holy Spirit is our power.
You know that they disciples were baptized twice by the Spirit, check out Acts 4. The point is that we are to desire more of God. The fact is in Corinthians 14 it's made clear if you speak in tongues it's unfruitful to you and everyone else if you can't interpret it.
The church of Corinth and tongue speaking churches have the high importance of tongues in common. Corinth had a Greek goddess, who caused them to speak in other languages (this was demonic of course) but when they would they'd get healed. So becoming Christians tongues and its importance was highlighted. But what did Paul say?
If I speak of man and angel and have not love...it's means nothing. Was he saying if I have the Spirit and not have love it's nothing? No way! The Spirit produces love which we see also in Corinthians 13 is what helps produce the other fruits such as patience and kindness. Paul also said that he wish all could speak In tongues but more so that they could prophesy unless they can interpret their tongue. And that he spoke in tongues more than any of them but in he church he'd rather speak 5 words in a known tongue than thousands in a tongue. Why? Again because it's unfruitful.
It says repent and be baptized and you must be obedient? How about you must try for many years? Or you must surrender all yourself? Nope, the bible says and you WILL receive the Holy Spirit. And I thought tongues can only be understood by God? Then how was it these unsaved Jewish people during Pentecost could understand? Because they weren't speaking in tongues, they were prophesying. Speaking to men and not to God. Also recall the quoted OT scripture in Joel, about prophesy? I ask you, can you prophesy as they did on Pentecost?
I encourage you and everyone really to just study the Holy Spirit, who he is and what he does. I also encourage you to take the good news that you can be baptized more than once in the Spirit and to earnestly seek out interpretation of your tongues, to bless you and others.
Tongues is a manifestation of the Spirit, used when God wills and given when the Spirit wills. Think about it. If you have a gift does it come and go or is it always active? The Holy Spirit is a gift that is always active, not just when you pray or in church. He is there when you read scripture and understand it, He's active when you are witnessing and rememeber scripture, he's active when you are struggling and need help, he's there when you need comfort and provides a Word from God. Tongues on the other hand comes and goes because it's not a gift but a manifestation. Point is... He is the keys! You are the car. The Holy Spirit is our power.
You know that they disciples were baptized twice by the Spirit, check out Acts 4. The point is that we are to desire more of God. The fact is in Corinthians 14 it's made clear if you speak in tongues it's unfruitful to you and everyone else if you can't interpret it.
The church of Corinth and tongue speaking churches have the high importance of tongues in common. Corinth had a Greek goddess, who caused them to speak in other languages (this was demonic of course) but when they would they'd get healed. So becoming Christians tongues and its importance was highlighted. But what did Paul say?
If I speak of man and angel and have not love...it's means nothing. Was he saying if I have the Spirit and not have love it's nothing? No way! The Spirit produces love which we see also in Corinthians 13 is what helps produce the other fruits such as patience and kindness. Paul also said that he wish all could speak In tongues but more so that they could prophesy unless they can interpret their tongue. And that he spoke in tongues more than any of them but in he church he'd rather speak 5 words in a known tongue than thousands in a tongue. Why? Again because it's unfruitful.
It says repent and be baptized and you must be obedient? How about you must try for many years? Or you must surrender all yourself? Nope, the bible says and you WILL receive the Holy Spirit. And I thought tongues can only be understood by God? Then how was it these unsaved Jewish people during Pentecost could understand? Because they weren't speaking in tongues, they were prophesying. Speaking to men and not to God. Also recall the quoted OT scripture in Joel, about prophesy? I ask you, can you prophesy as they did on Pentecost?
I encourage you and everyone really to just study the Holy Spirit, who he is and what he does. I also encourage you to take the good news that you can be baptized more than once in the Spirit and to earnestly seek out interpretation of your tongues, to bless you and others.
No, tongues is both a gift and a manifestation as the others are, listed as we see in 1 Cor 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
So having the Spirit, we can pretty much guarantee that God will have given us one of these gifts/manifestations since we were born again, or indeed several, dividing to every man severally as He will.
The difficulty is that if there is no manifestation of the Holy Spirit, then we are bound to assume, as the scripture says, that he who has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His.
On this thread there has been a lot of attacking of those who speak in tongues so far, except from those who do. So for the sake of peace and mutual edification, I am asking for those who do not have the gift of tongues to say what other gifts/manifestations they have been given, according to 1 Cor 12 above, really as part of a personal testimony, rather than a spiritual treatise.
I feel it would be a great comfort to those of us who have been gifted with tongues, to know that some of those here have been given other gifts of the Spirit instead. That alone would stop others from claiming that you have to speak in tongues to be saved, and comfort us that the gifts/manifestations of the Spirit (according to the above scripture) are indeed alive and well and active in the body today.
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit;
to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles;
to another prophecy;
to another discerning of spirits;
to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
So having the Spirit, we can pretty much guarantee that God will have given us one of these gifts/manifestations since we were born again, or indeed several, dividing to every man severally as He will.
The difficulty is that if there is no manifestation of the Holy Spirit, then we are bound to assume, as the scripture says, that he who has not the Spirit of Christ is none of His.
On this thread there has been a lot of attacking of those who speak in tongues so far, except from those who do. So for the sake of peace and mutual edification, I am asking for those who do not have the gift of tongues to say what other gifts/manifestations they have been given, according to 1 Cor 12 above, really as part of a personal testimony, rather than a spiritual treatise.
I feel it would be a great comfort to those of us who have been gifted with tongues, to know that some of those here have been given other gifts of the Spirit instead. That alone would stop others from claiming that you have to speak in tongues to be saved, and comfort us that the gifts/manifestations of the Spirit (according to the above scripture) are indeed alive and well and active in the body today.
P
i have never thought of tongues as proof of anything, when someones life is turned around 180degrees after they have had an encounter from god is normally the proof that they have been filled with the holy spirit. christianity isn't the only religion that speak in tongues, many tribal pagans do to, so of itself it dont mean to much.
G
All the gifts you have in bold above have ceased.
people didn't have the completed canon, so they needed supernatural help until the perfect,(Neuter gender/a THING) the completed canon came.
Some were given wisdom~~so they could teach basic doctrine.(the word wasn't complete)
Some were given knowledge ~~so they could teach advanced doctrine.(The word wasn't complete to teach advanced doctrine)
Some were given a mature faith~~they were going to be martyred.
Some were given healing,miracles,Prophecy~~to advance and promote and declare the MESSAGE.
Some were given the discerning of Spirits~~They could discern false doctrine.(they didn't have the complete word)
Some were given tongues~~to witness to the unbelieving Jews in their native tongues(Isa 28) as a sign for their impending last cycle of discipline......the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
All the other gifts above ceased when the Canon was perfect and complete in 96 AD.
My Gift is helping others.
people didn't have the completed canon, so they needed supernatural help until the perfect,(Neuter gender/a THING) the completed canon came.
Some were given wisdom~~so they could teach basic doctrine.(the word wasn't complete)
Some were given knowledge ~~so they could teach advanced doctrine.(The word wasn't complete to teach advanced doctrine)
Some were given a mature faith~~they were going to be martyred.
Some were given healing,miracles,Prophecy~~to advance and promote and declare the MESSAGE.
Some were given the discerning of Spirits~~They could discern false doctrine.(they didn't have the complete word)
Some were given tongues~~to witness to the unbelieving Jews in their native tongues(Isa 28) as a sign for their impending last cycle of discipline......the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
All the other gifts above ceased when the Canon was perfect and complete in 96 AD.
My Gift is helping others.
Thank you for your reply and for giving me what I asked for, that your life was turned around. I agree with that: same happened to me, and that is for sure evidence of the Holy Spirit.
So the fact your life is turned around means also that God has gifted you spiritually, whether or not you know it yet. Think big. God says when we are weak, THEN we are strong! Of ourselves we have nothing, but in God's hands we become all He wants to make of us.
Psalm 84
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
So the fact your life is turned around means also that God has gifted you spiritually, whether or not you know it yet. Think big. God says when we are weak, THEN we are strong! Of ourselves we have nothing, but in God's hands we become all He wants to make of us.
Psalm 84
11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.
Cessationism is a modern heresy. How are you going to help others when you don’t believe the Word of God is for today?
As God says, Romans 8:9, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is NONE OF HIS. Rather than show me evidence that God is NOT active in your life, show me evidence that He is!!!
As God says, Romans 8:9, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is NONE OF HIS. Rather than show me evidence that God is NOT active in your life, show me evidence that He is!!!
That is a wonderful question. I know because I was already born again and baptized in the Holy Spirit when it happened to me and I received the gift of tongues. I know because when I began to progress and speak more in tongues I saw also visions which were interpreted by another sister in the body of Christ, and which turned out to be totally true. I know because whatever things are happening down here on earth, in the heavenlies God assures me He has got the problem COVERED, and time reveals He has indeed. I know because I know because I know.
Please do not be afraid of any manifestation of the power of God. He loves us and wants to show us what it is all about as born again believers. You don't have to go to any dodgy meeting house with any dodgy pet doctrine that disguises its unbelief by saying God does not show His power any more. YOU have faith. It may be as small as a mustard seed right now, but you have it. Move that mountain. Believe! And you will receive!!!
Please do not be afraid of any manifestation of the power of God. He loves us and wants to show us what it is all about as born again believers. You don't have to go to any dodgy meeting house with any dodgy pet doctrine that disguises its unbelief by saying God does not show His power any more. YOU have faith. It may be as small as a mustard seed right now, but you have it. Move that mountain. Believe! And you will receive!!!
V
Sorry, but you totally misunderstand 1 Corinthians 14:14, if you think Paul says he speaks in unknown tongues. Let's look at the verse in context, shall we?
You will note here that Paul is "IF I speak ... " which is not to say he does. It is a hypothetical, one which he proceeds to take apart piece by piece for its error. Do you think Paul would have practiced spiritual error if he recognized it as such? Hardly. Paul did not speak in unknown tongues, and clearly states that it is not proper to do so.
1 Corinthians 14, NASB
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen " at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.
18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;
19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen " at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.
18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;
19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.
You will note here that Paul is "IF I speak ... " which is not to say he does. It is a hypothetical, one which he proceeds to take apart piece by piece for its error. Do you think Paul would have practiced spiritual error if he recognized it as such? Hardly. Paul did not speak in unknown tongues, and clearly states that it is not proper to do so.
Far from persuasive. All experience and no substance.
Sounds a lot like the prosperity gospel. All gain and no pain.
How do you know it is the Holy Spirit and not the spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience?
It is not clear from what you have posted so help me and clarify. Were the tongues interpreted or the visions? How would you know if what you said is what she interpreted? She could have made up just about anything if you don't know what you said in the first place.
Probably shouldn't ask these things because tongues and visions are so capricious that they can be seen to be anything since there is no way to measure them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Sounds a lot like the prosperity gospel. All gain and no pain.
How do you know it is the Holy Spirit and not the spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience?
It is not clear from what you have posted so help me and clarify. Were the tongues interpreted or the visions? How would you know if what you said is what she interpreted? She could have made up just about anything if you don't know what you said in the first place.
Probably shouldn't ask these things because tongues and visions are so capricious that they can be seen to be anything since there is no way to measure them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
"Far from persuasive. All experience and no substance."
Don't let me or an angel from heaven peruade you, or disuade you: believe God.
Sounds a lot like the prosperity gospel. All gain and no pain.
You have no idea what my life consists of, how dare you.
How do you know it is the Holy Spirit and not the spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience?
Because He has quickened me who was dead in trespasses and sins...and am now made alive in Christ.
It is not clear from what you have posted so help me and clarify. Were the tongues interpreted or the visions? How would you know if what you said is what she interpreted? She could have made up just about anything if you don't know what you said in the first place.
You claim to work for the cause of Christ. Presumably that is a claim to know Him and to have a relationship with Him. Why don't you ask Him to show you?
Probably shouldn't ask these things because tongues and visions are so capricious that they can be seen to be anything since there is no way to measure them.
You are a total fake!
For the cause of Christ
Unlikely!
Don't let me or an angel from heaven peruade you, or disuade you: believe God.
Sounds a lot like the prosperity gospel. All gain and no pain.
You have no idea what my life consists of, how dare you.
How do you know it is the Holy Spirit and not the spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience?
Because He has quickened me who was dead in trespasses and sins...and am now made alive in Christ.
It is not clear from what you have posted so help me and clarify. Were the tongues interpreted or the visions? How would you know if what you said is what she interpreted? She could have made up just about anything if you don't know what you said in the first place.
You claim to work for the cause of Christ. Presumably that is a claim to know Him and to have a relationship with Him. Why don't you ask Him to show you?
Probably shouldn't ask these things because tongues and visions are so capricious that they can be seen to be anything since there is no way to measure them.
You are a total fake!
For the cause of Christ
Unlikely!
No, YOU have misunderstood what he was saying. It isn't error.
1 Cor 14: 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
So Paul is saying that praying in the Spirit is without understanding, as in the unknown tongue which speaketh mysteries unto God. Likewise you can sing in the Spirit, i.e an unknown tongue...but you can sing with the understanding also.
He says "I WILL" pray in both ways. Because he can.
1 Cor 14: 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
So Paul is saying that praying in the Spirit is without understanding, as in the unknown tongue which speaketh mysteries unto God. Likewise you can sing in the Spirit, i.e an unknown tongue...but you can sing with the understanding also.
He says "I WILL" pray in both ways. Because he can.
Here we have a glimpse of what you really have in your heart.
Tongues as manifested, which is a good word when used in relation to mental health issues, in the modern church are no where close to what God gifted to the early church. They are for lack of a better term lust driven. Consumed upon the lusts of those who delight in them.
I would love to draw a comparison to how cocaine in the community and tongues in the church react in similar ways. But that would cause a real uproar.
For the cause of Christ
Roger