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A
I'm not ignoring you. I've actually been thinking over your offer for a day now. Still can't make up my mind. Still praying, still thinking.
My problem is experience. This site shows my life experience. Lots of people promoting some belief system they call Christianity, but it isn't. Many of them and many more keep saying, "The Holy Spirit lead me to this" followed immediately by some verse as if the verse confirms it all and only they have it right. Many others won't set foot in a church because all churches do is disagree with them. (They don't put it that way, but that's exactly what they're saying.)
I can easily become one of them. I cannot go to church because of a bad back. It is in me to make scripture say what I want it to say. I fight against that. It took me over a decade even to recognize I'm like that, so I've been fighting it a long time.
What I see you offering is that. A way to make God what I want him to be. Your saving grace is I tend to learn from you, and 90+% I agree with you. That's exactly why I asked you to answer my question. I really do think you're smarter than I am. But it goes back to fearing I will be learning how to read scripture to invent my own god all over again.
So, I'm thinking. Don't know the answer yet, but that's what I've been thinking.
My problem is experience. This site shows my life experience. Lots of people promoting some belief system they call Christianity, but it isn't. Many of them and many more keep saying, "The Holy Spirit lead me to this" followed immediately by some verse as if the verse confirms it all and only they have it right. Many others won't set foot in a church because all churches do is disagree with them. (They don't put it that way, but that's exactly what they're saying.)
I can easily become one of them. I cannot go to church because of a bad back. It is in me to make scripture say what I want it to say. I fight against that. It took me over a decade even to recognize I'm like that, so I've been fighting it a long time.
What I see you offering is that. A way to make God what I want him to be. Your saving grace is I tend to learn from you, and 90+% I agree with you. That's exactly why I asked you to answer my question. I really do think you're smarter than I am. But it goes back to fearing I will be learning how to read scripture to invent my own god all over again.
So, I'm thinking. Don't know the answer yet, but that's what I've been thinking.
O
Rachel,
we have seen a lot of your posts and we perceive that you have spent a great deal of your heart/time
in the scriptures,
and we very much appreciate that, as we also have spent many years of our lives in our Father's Word.
in the scriptures concerning Ezekiel's Temple, there are (3) Holy Days missing -
(TRUMPETS), which signifies the coming of Christ,
EZ.43:2,
And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.
His voice is like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.
1COR. 15:52.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last TRUMPET - clearly BOTH of these will be fulfilled,
after Christ returns.
(PENTECOST) signifies the completion of the NT Church.
ACTS 2:20.
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the
great and awesome Day of The Lord.
fulfilled in REV.6:12.
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake; and the sun became
black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
REV.7.
the hundred and forty four thousand are sealed, PENTECOST IS FULFILLED.
(DAY OF ATONEMENT)
MARK 15:38.
And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
and according to the Book of Hebrews, the VEIL is the Flesh of Christ -
therefore the Day of Atonement is fulfilled because the Way into the Holy of Holies is opened,
and we have direct access to the Father through Jesus Christ our Lord.
but, the PASSOVER is different in TWO respects that we can think of off the top of our heads,
and that is, that the scripture says, concerning the PASSOVER MEAL -
MARK 14:25.
Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day
that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
JEREMIAH 23:7-8.
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say,
The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
But as the Lord lives Who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country
and from all the countries where I have driven them. And they shall dwell in their own land.
clearly speaking of The Great Deliverance in the End Days, which is celebrated through the
Passover Feast.
may our hearts always be open to the magnificent Word of God and the whole council thereof,
it is our life and our calling.
we have seen a lot of your posts and we perceive that you have spent a great deal of your heart/time
in the scriptures,
and we very much appreciate that, as we also have spent many years of our lives in our Father's Word.
in the scriptures concerning Ezekiel's Temple, there are (3) Holy Days missing -
(TRUMPETS), which signifies the coming of Christ,
EZ.43:2,
And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east.
His voice is like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.
1COR. 15:52.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last TRUMPET - clearly BOTH of these will be fulfilled,
after Christ returns.
(PENTECOST) signifies the completion of the NT Church.
ACTS 2:20.
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the
great and awesome Day of The Lord.
fulfilled in REV.6:12.
I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake; and the sun became
black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.
REV.7.
the hundred and forty four thousand are sealed, PENTECOST IS FULFILLED.
(DAY OF ATONEMENT)
MARK 15:38.
And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
and according to the Book of Hebrews, the VEIL is the Flesh of Christ -
therefore the Day of Atonement is fulfilled because the Way into the Holy of Holies is opened,
and we have direct access to the Father through Jesus Christ our Lord.
but, the PASSOVER is different in TWO respects that we can think of off the top of our heads,
and that is, that the scripture says, concerning the PASSOVER MEAL -
MARK 14:25.
Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day
that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
JEREMIAH 23:7-8.
Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say,
The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
But as the Lord lives Who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country
and from all the countries where I have driven them. And they shall dwell in their own land.
clearly speaking of The Great Deliverance in the End Days, which is celebrated through the
Passover Feast.
may our hearts always be open to the magnificent Word of God and the whole council thereof,
it is our life and our calling.
J
I don't want to butt into anybody else's business, but you did ask a question in a public forum, so I hope that you don't mind me addressing this situation. I'm thinking that the solution to your problem isn't too difficult, but I might be missing something. In my mind, all scripture is given by inspiration from God or inspired by the Holy Spirit. As such, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, knows what it does and does not say and also what it means and does not mean. My simple advice to you is to pray and to ask God to lead you into all truth by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, whenever you read the Bible.
A
Which is probably my question -- how do we know they're good? I've been going with they're old enough to all be dead, but are still passed along as classics. That works in literature, although I dare disagree that some of the classics are truly classic. (A Clockwork Orange? A classic? Really? Catcher in the Rye? Give me a break!) I just don't know how to do that with God being God so the stakes are different. (I do know to disagree with John Gill about 30% of the time. He keeps trusting the targums, but the targum writers often had agendas too. I've gotten that far. lol)
J
Preacher? Meet DENSE. (I'm dense. You're preacher, just so you know I'm talking to you. lol)
I saw you saying a lot of stuff, but have no idea how that pertains to my questions.
I saw you saying a lot of stuff, but have no idea how that pertains to my questions.
The point that I was trying to make is that even Jesus' disciples whom He walked with for 3 to 3 1/2 years and spoke to on a daily basis were basically clueless until the time came that Christ opened their understanding and said understanding included everything that was written about Him in the Old Testament scriptures. You were questioning shadows and the like and they appear in the Old Testament, so I was merely suggesting that you ask Christ to open your understanding as well.
O
at,
we HAVE learned a lot from commentary, BUT, we have to understand that each one
comes from 'a different perspective' -
the only recipe we have been taught is to 'sift the wheat from the chaff', and to spend a lot of time
one-on-one with the Lord and with His Word......
if we do this, we will agree with SOME of the commentary whole-heartedly, and with others,
(we will disagree, vehemently) -
as it is written,
Think on these things........
we HAVE learned a lot from commentary, BUT, we have to understand that each one
comes from 'a different perspective' -
the only recipe we have been taught is to 'sift the wheat from the chaff', and to spend a lot of time
one-on-one with the Lord and with His Word......
if we do this, we will agree with SOME of the commentary whole-heartedly, and with others,
(we will disagree, vehemently) -
as it is written,
Think on these things........
J
And that's a very important question which we should all be asking. I've often asked different people the following question, so please don't think that it's limited to you:
If two different people extended their thumb and forefinger apart from each other and they both told you that the distance between their thumb and forefinger was an inch and they both had different distances, then how would you know if either of them was correct?
They can't possibly both be correct, can they? We need to have a standard of measurement, in this case, a ruler or a measuring tape or something similar, by which we can verify which of the two, if either of the two, is actually an inch. This makes sense, doesn't it? Well, the same principle applies for commentaries and the like. Get five commentaries on the same Biblical passage and you're likely to get 5 different interpretations of it on many occasions. Which, if any, is correct and how can we be sure? We need to have a measuring stick, the canon of scripture, by which we can rightly measure whatever we hear. Again, all scripture is given by inspiration of God or inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth. Unlike men, the Holy Spirit will never lead us astray if we truly ask for His guidance in humility. Pray for the Spirit's leading whenever you read the Bible and just put the commentaries away for a season. After you're rooted in the Word itself or after you've become accustomed to the measuring stick, then read the commentaries and see if they line up or not.
Many years ago, I worked as a bank teller. The way that they trained us to recognize counterfeit bills was not by showing us counterfeit bills. Instead, they made us so familiar with the genuine bills that counterfeit bills stood out immediately like sore thumbs. I'd suggest to you that the same principle applies here. Immerse yourself in prayerful study of God's Word. That is the real bill. After you've done so, then God help the person who seeks to slip you a counterfeit.
If two different people extended their thumb and forefinger apart from each other and they both told you that the distance between their thumb and forefinger was an inch and they both had different distances, then how would you know if either of them was correct?
They can't possibly both be correct, can they? We need to have a standard of measurement, in this case, a ruler or a measuring tape or something similar, by which we can verify which of the two, if either of the two, is actually an inch. This makes sense, doesn't it? Well, the same principle applies for commentaries and the like. Get five commentaries on the same Biblical passage and you're likely to get 5 different interpretations of it on many occasions. Which, if any, is correct and how can we be sure? We need to have a measuring stick, the canon of scripture, by which we can rightly measure whatever we hear. Again, all scripture is given by inspiration of God or inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth. Unlike men, the Holy Spirit will never lead us astray if we truly ask for His guidance in humility. Pray for the Spirit's leading whenever you read the Bible and just put the commentaries away for a season. After you're rooted in the Word itself or after you've become accustomed to the measuring stick, then read the commentaries and see if they line up or not.
Many years ago, I worked as a bank teller. The way that they trained us to recognize counterfeit bills was not by showing us counterfeit bills. Instead, they made us so familiar with the genuine bills that counterfeit bills stood out immediately like sore thumbs. I'd suggest to you that the same principle applies here. Immerse yourself in prayerful study of God's Word. That is the real bill. After you've done so, then God help the person who seeks to slip you a counterfeit.
R
you basically know if they are good or not by reading them enough that you can tell a particular commentator's tendencies and know if their methods are sound or doubtful...
for example your impression of john gill is an accurate one...usually sound but sometimes tending towards speculation of his own or speculation from others...
for example your impression of john gill is an accurate one...usually sound but sometimes tending towards speculation of his own or speculation from others...
A
You're right. You can't butt in when there's a question on a public forum, because asking a question on a public forum means the questioner (in this case me) wants all the advice I can get. So, no, you can't butt in because you're giving me advice -- exactly what I'm looking for. You can't butt in when you've already been invited in, so thank you.
I've been reading the Bible for decades, and yet at one time I really did think God changed from OT to NT. Jesus couldn't possibly be the same violent God as the OT God. I used to think that God will direct me in all ways, right down to telling me which job to take and which jobs not to take. I'd actually get a clear sign from him on which way to go. I used to think we'd be raptured out of this world. I used to think the world would get better. I used to think the world would get worse. I used to think I had to pray exactly in line with the Lord's prayer or God wouldn't do anything for me. I used to think God was my magic three-wish-genie. If I pray just the right way, I could force him to do anything. I used to think he would never let anything hurt me. I used to think "the Holy Spirit would guide me" meant however I read it that's the way God meant it. I used to think a lot of things from things I read in the Bible. Most of it was garbage.
I'm just tired of absorbing garbage, and fearful of missing the real God.
I've been reading the Bible for decades, and yet at one time I really did think God changed from OT to NT. Jesus couldn't possibly be the same violent God as the OT God. I used to think that God will direct me in all ways, right down to telling me which job to take and which jobs not to take. I'd actually get a clear sign from him on which way to go. I used to think we'd be raptured out of this world. I used to think the world would get better. I used to think the world would get worse. I used to think I had to pray exactly in line with the Lord's prayer or God wouldn't do anything for me. I used to think God was my magic three-wish-genie. If I pray just the right way, I could force him to do anything. I used to think he would never let anything hurt me. I used to think "the Holy Spirit would guide me" meant however I read it that's the way God meant it. I used to think a lot of things from things I read in the Bible. Most of it was garbage.
I'm just tired of absorbing garbage, and fearful of missing the real God.
J
Then my life differs greatly from your experience. What you deem "intellectualism" might actually be pride or man's belief that he can rightly discern the things of God apart from the Spirit of God. I never said or implied that we ought not to study or to read. Instead I suggested humbly praying for the Spirit's guidance before doing so.
J
Again, how did He get through?
Let's face it...more often than not, the disciples were clueless for the 3 to 3 1/2 years that Jesus walked with them. Peter once rightly identified Jesus as the Christ, only because flesh and blood hadn't revealed it to him, but God the Father had revealed it to him...and then Jesus basically told him that he was being led by the devil shortly thereafter when He said, "Get thee behind me, Satan". The disciples were always either asking Jesus to explain things to them in private or Jesus had to interrupt them and show them how far removed from the truth they actually were. On one occasion, He went so far as to tell them that they didn't even know what spirit they were of...which leads to an interesting question:
When, exactly, did the Apostles/disciples actually receive the Holy Spirit?
Some would say in John chapter 20 when Jesus breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Ghost after He had risen from the dead and others would say not until the day of Pentecost. In either case, again, they were clueless apart from the Holy Spirit and so are we. You're actually in a good place in that you recognize that you cannot understand the things of God after so long a time because God will actually resist us until we totally rely upon His Spirit's guidance in our lives. Believe me, I've been there and I've learned this lesson the hard way myself.
This analogy may fail a bit because it involves human beings, but my mother was a language teacher for 30 years (she taught Italian, Latin, French and Spanish and she spoke some other languages as well) and my wife is a native Panamanian whose native tongue is Spanish. If I was handed a document in Spanish, a document which possibly affected my eternal destiny, then you'd better believe that I'd be asking one of these two people who are way more fluent in Spanish than I'll ever be for assistance in understanding the document.
My point?
Again, all scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, and He knows what it says and what it means. Put your reliance upon Him because He was sent unto us for this very purpose:
"These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:25-26)
When their Teacher, Jesus, left, another Comforter was sent unto them to not only teach them all things, but also to bring all things back to their remembrance in relation to what Jesus Himself had already taught them. When I became a Christian 27 years ago, this was the first scripture that I ever grabbed a hold of and I've prayed for God to do the same for me ever since. Now, there will be some who will object and say, "That promise was for the Apostles and not for you!", but this same John later wrote:
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." (I John 20:18-20)
Again, he wrote:
"These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (I John 2:26-27)
What is the average layperson's safeguard from antichrists and deceivers? It is the unction or the anointing of the Holy Spirit that teaches US all things and is truth and is no lie and even as this same anointing or this same Holy Spirit has taught US, WE shall abide in Him (Christ).
God hasn't left YOU comfortless, Lynn. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, is available to YOU to not only teach YOU all things and to bring all things to YOUR remembrance, but also to enable or empower YOU to truly abide in Christ.
That's great news.
Let's face it...more often than not, the disciples were clueless for the 3 to 3 1/2 years that Jesus walked with them. Peter once rightly identified Jesus as the Christ, only because flesh and blood hadn't revealed it to him, but God the Father had revealed it to him...and then Jesus basically told him that he was being led by the devil shortly thereafter when He said, "Get thee behind me, Satan". The disciples were always either asking Jesus to explain things to them in private or Jesus had to interrupt them and show them how far removed from the truth they actually were. On one occasion, He went so far as to tell them that they didn't even know what spirit they were of...which leads to an interesting question:
When, exactly, did the Apostles/disciples actually receive the Holy Spirit?
Some would say in John chapter 20 when Jesus breathed on them and told them to receive the Holy Ghost after He had risen from the dead and others would say not until the day of Pentecost. In either case, again, they were clueless apart from the Holy Spirit and so are we. You're actually in a good place in that you recognize that you cannot understand the things of God after so long a time because God will actually resist us until we totally rely upon His Spirit's guidance in our lives. Believe me, I've been there and I've learned this lesson the hard way myself.
This analogy may fail a bit because it involves human beings, but my mother was a language teacher for 30 years (she taught Italian, Latin, French and Spanish and she spoke some other languages as well) and my wife is a native Panamanian whose native tongue is Spanish. If I was handed a document in Spanish, a document which possibly affected my eternal destiny, then you'd better believe that I'd be asking one of these two people who are way more fluent in Spanish than I'll ever be for assistance in understanding the document.
My point?
Again, all scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, and He knows what it says and what it means. Put your reliance upon Him because He was sent unto us for this very purpose:
"These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:25-26)
When their Teacher, Jesus, left, another Comforter was sent unto them to not only teach them all things, but also to bring all things back to their remembrance in relation to what Jesus Himself had already taught them. When I became a Christian 27 years ago, this was the first scripture that I ever grabbed a hold of and I've prayed for God to do the same for me ever since. Now, there will be some who will object and say, "That promise was for the Apostles and not for you!", but this same John later wrote:
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." (I John 20:18-20)
Again, he wrote:
"These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (I John 2:26-27)
What is the average layperson's safeguard from antichrists and deceivers? It is the unction or the anointing of the Holy Spirit that teaches US all things and is truth and is no lie and even as this same anointing or this same Holy Spirit has taught US, WE shall abide in Him (Christ).
God hasn't left YOU comfortless, Lynn. The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, is available to YOU to not only teach YOU all things and to bring all things to YOUR remembrance, but also to enable or empower YOU to truly abide in Christ.
That's great news.
J
This analogy might also fail because some nincompoop (me) forgot to mention the most important part:
In the case of the Bible, the Holy Spirit is not only the interpreter, but the author as well in that He inspired holy men of God in their writing of the same. As such, we have the actual author interpreting His own Words. In the analogy that I gave above, it was somebody interpreting the words of another and not their own words. Big difference.
In the case of the Bible, the Holy Spirit is not only the interpreter, but the author as well in that He inspired holy men of God in their writing of the same. As such, we have the actual author interpreting His own Words. In the analogy that I gave above, it was somebody interpreting the words of another and not their own words. Big difference.