To the Godless American Church...

[Utah]

What are you saying? I read through your posts and pretty much came up with Utah's conclusion.

You no longer have a sin nature and only have the new creation in Christ?

There was someone on CC earlier this year with the same username who was a real snapperhead. If this is the same guy, and it looks like it is because of everything he's written so far, your time will be better served putting him on ignore.

Feel free to fight the good fight, my Brother, you know its always a good thing to share God's grace, but ever since I put the perfect people on ignore, life got a whole lot more blissful.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

What are you saying? I read through your posts and pretty much came up with Utah's conclusion.

You no longer have a sin nature and only have the new creation in Christ?

Yes, I no longer have the "sin nature". Again, in Ephesians chapter 2, Paul said that we WERE, past tense, children of wrath by nature. Well, what changed? What should have changed is that we got a new nature when we were born again and we became one spirit with the Lord and our bodies became the temple of the Holy Ghost. This whole "Christians still have a sinful nature" garbage came from a terrible INTERPRETATION and not a translation of the Greek word sarx which simply means "flesh". Again, contextually, Paul was referring to the fact that somebody who merely has an outward circumcision in the foreskin of their flesh can never truly serve a God Who is Spirit or never truly worship Him in spirit and in truth without having been truly circumcised in the heart or spirit. That's the context...whether or not anybody likes it.

Yes, I am a new creation in Christ, but such does not mean that I've never sinned since becoming the same. There is clearly a sanctification process taught in scripture where we need to be renewed in the spirit of our minds and so forth. There is also the clear possibility of somebody who has become a new creation willfully choosing to submit their members unto sin. The good news is, however, that via the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, we need not to do the same.

What, if anything, is wrong with what I've just stated?

 

[JesusistheChrist]

There was someone on CC earlier this year with the same username who was a real snapperhead. If this is the same guy, and it looks like it is because of everything he's written so far, your time will be better served putting him on ignore.

Feel free to fight the good fight, my Brother, you know its always a good thing to share God's grace, but ever since I put the perfect people on ignore, life got a whole lot more blissful.

I am the same individual, even as I plainly stated in my signature, but I'm not sure what a snapperhead is. In any case, I trust that it's just another of your trademark false accusations and insults. As I recall, you regularly chose to go the route of personal insults as opposed to actually addressing the content of my posts and I trust that we both know why that is. Incidentally, everything that I've written thus far, especially in this thread, is scriptural. If not, then why not refute it? Because you can't? I know, I know...because I'm a snapperhead, right? If insults were a fruit of the Spirit, then you'd be a virtual garden.

 

[Utah]

I am the same individual, even as I plainly stated in my signature, but I'm not sure what a snapperhead is. In any case, I trust that it's just another of your trademark false accusations and insults. As I recall, you regularly chose to go the route of personal insults as opposed to actually addressing the content of my posts and I trust that we both know why that is. Incidentally, everything that I've written thus far, especially in this thread, is scriptural. If not, then why not refute it? Because you can't? I know, I know...because I'm a snapperhead, right? If insults were a fruit of the Spirit, then you'd be a virtual garden.

You're a sinner; always have been; always will be. You're also a Pharisee.

Welcome back. Now welcome to my ignore button.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

You're a sinner; always have been; always will be. You're also a Pharisee.

Welcome back. Now welcome to my ignore button.

So, Pharisees taught freedom from sin via Christ? Just more of your own childish nonsense. Feel free to ignore the truth all that you want to, but God will still hold you accountable to the same on His day of judgment.

 

[Gr8grace]

Yes, I no longer have the "sin nature". Again, in Ephesians chapter 2, Paul said that we WERE, past tense, children of wrath by nature. Well, what changed? What should have changed is that we got a new nature when we were born again and we became one spirit with the Lord and our bodies became the temple of the Holy Ghost. This whole "Christians still have a sinful nature" garbage came from a terrible INTERPRETATION and not a translation of the Greek word sarx which simply means "flesh". Again, contextually, Paul was referring to the fact that somebody who merely has an outward circumcision in the foreskin of their flesh can never truly serve a God Who is Spirit or never truly worship Him in spirit and in truth without having been truly circumcised in the heart or spirit. That's the context...whether or not anybody likes it.

Yes, I am a new creation in Christ, but such does not mean that I've never sinned since becoming the same. There is clearly a sanctification process taught in scripture where we need to be renewed in the spirit of our minds and so forth. There is also the clear possibility of somebody who has become a new creation willfully choosing to submit their members unto sin. The good news is, however, that via the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, we need not to do the same.

What, if anything, is wrong with what I've just stated?

That you no longer have a sin nature.

SO your new creation in Christ, which is perfectly righteous....................................................is sinning when you sin.

You have a corrupted new creation in Christ, by your own admission.

1 John 3:9~~New American Standard Bible
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

That you no longer have a sin nature.

I do no longer have a sin nature and you need to get rid of your own, if you still have one, by being born again. My inner man truly longs for God Himself, the things of God and the people of God. When I was unregenerate, none of that was true.

SO your new creation in Christ, which is perfectly righteous....................................................is sinning when you sin.

You have a corrupted new creation in Christ, by your own admission.

1 John 3:9~~New American Standard Bible
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

No one who is born of God PRACTICES sin. Again, the new creation which Paul taught of in scripture still needed to be renewed in the spirit of its mind and so forth because there is a sanctification process. I don't PRACTICE sin, but I still do sin at times. The primary reasons for the same are either that I don't fully understand what is actually sinful in God's eyes because my mind hasn't yet fully been renewed or because I momentarily stumble and fall by yielding to a certain temptation. Even when such occurs, I'm quick to be convicted and quick to repent and quick to find cleansing via the blood of Christ. You? Are you some sort of sin monger who can't stop sinning? If you are, then, again, I'd recommend giving your life to Christ. He is the Vine and we are the branches. If we're abiding in Him, then we ought not to be bringing forth bad fruit.

 

[Mitspa]

If you still have a "nature to sin", then I'd heartily recommend that you become born again. When I sin, it comes either from ignorance on my part in that my mind hasn't been fully renewed to mirror the mind of Christ or it comes from a willful decision on my part to yield one of my members unto sin. My nature is to follow Christ. If such isn't your testimony, then you're not even saved.

Friend its called the flesh..that I must crucify daily...if you say you have no sin? Your the one who needs to come into the truth. Now when YOU SIN...where does that desire come from? Answer that?

 

[Mitspa]

I do no longer have a sin nature and you need to get rid of your own, if you still have one, by being born again. My inner man truly longs for God Himself, the things of God and the people of God. When I was unregenerate, none of that was true.

No one who is born of God PRACTICES sin. Again, the new creation which Paul taught of in scripture still needed to be renewed in the spirit of its mind and so forth because there is a sanctification process. I don't PRACTICE sin, but I still do sin at times. The primary reasons for the same are either that I don't fully understand what is actually sinful in God's eyes because my mind hasn't yet fully been renewed or because I momentarily stumble and fall by yielding to a certain temptation. Even when such occurs, I'm quick to be convicted and quick to repent and quick to find cleansing via the blood of Christ. You? Are you some sort of sin monger who can't stop sinning? If you are, then, again, I'd recommend giving your life to Christ. He is the Vine and we are the branches. If we're abiding in Him, then we ought not to be bringing forth bad fruit.

Well it clearly don't say practice in the Greek...but I guess that means you don't do it as much as others? lol

That's not a biblical standard unless your looking to be a hypocrite?

 

[Mitspa]

So, Pharisees taught freedom from sin via Christ? Just more of your own childish nonsense. Feel free to ignore the truth all that you want to, but God will still hold you accountable to the same on His day of judgment.

Answer one question...do you sin? If so..where does that desire come from? If you say you don't? your a liar according to Gods Word and the truth is not in you.

 

[Gr8grace]

I do no longer have a sin nature and you need to get rid of your own, if you still have one, by being born again. My inner man truly longs for God Himself, the things of God and the people of God. When I was unregenerate, none of that was true.

No one who is born of God PRACTICES sin. Again, the new creation which Paul taught of in scripture still needed to be renewed in the spirit of its mind and so forth because there is a sanctification process. I don't PRACTICE sin, but I still do sin at times. The primary reasons for the same are either that I don't fully understand what is actually sinful in God's eyes because my mind hasn't yet fully been renewed or because I momentarily stumble and fall by yielding to a certain temptation. Even when such occurs, I'm quick to be convicted and quick to repent and quick to find cleansing via the blood of Christ. You? Are you some sort of sin monger who can't stop sinning? If you are, then, again, I'd recommend giving your life to Christ. He is the Vine and we are the branches. If we're abiding in Him, then we ought not to be bringing forth bad fruit.

We have to read the rest of the verse....................the new creation CANNOT sin.

The new creation in Christ CANNOT grieve or quench the Spirit.

Rom 7:17~~New American Standard Bible
So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Friend its called the flesh..that I must crucify daily

Where do you find a daily crucifying of one's flesh in scripture?

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24)

What is it about the word "have" that you don't understand?

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Galatians 2:20)

Paul was crucified with Christ, right? If he had to crucify his flesh daily as you allege, then did Christ also have to be crucified daily? You're not a Roman Catholic, are you? I'm not interested in Mass, thanks.

...if you say you have no sin? Your the one who needs to come into the truth.

Feel free to quote me where I ever said that. You can't. If you have to resort to straw man arguments, then that ought to tell you something.

Now when YOU SIN...where does that desire come from? Answer that?

Sure, no problem:

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren." (James 1:12-16)

As Christians, we've been called to endure temptation and to not yield to it. If we do yield to it, then that is because of our own lust or our own desire for something which is outside of God's will for us. And? How does this equate with having a sinful nature? It merely means that a certain desire needs to be repented of and that we need to stop erring in that regard or to stop committing spiritual adultery against God as James later went on to explain. James certainly didn't believe that we had "sinful natures", did he? Don't kid yourself. Here's what James believed:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (James 1:18)

James understood that Christians have been begotten or born again with the word of truth and that they are supposed to be a kind of firstfruits of God's creatures. He went on to describe the real issue in relation to sin when he addressed such things as the wisdom which is DEVILISH or DEMONIC and how when we have committed spiritual adultery against God we need to repent and to submit ourselves unto God and to RESIST THE DEVIL. Oh, you mean that THE DEVIL is the real tempter and not our flesh? Yes, that's exactly what I mean. If we choose to yield our members unto him, then we are sinning for he that sins is of the devil.

Does this answer your question? It should.

 

[Mitspa]

Where do you find a daily crucifying of one's flesh in scripture?

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24)

What is it about the word "have" that you don't understand?

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Galatians 2:20)

Paul was crucified with Christ, right? If he had to crucify his flesh daily as you allege, then did Christ also have to be crucified daily? You're not a Roman Catholic, are you? I'm not interested in Mass, thanks.

Feel free to quote me where I ever said that. You can't. If you have to resort to straw man arguments, then that ought to tell you something.

Sure, no problem:

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren." (James 1:12-16)

As Christians, we've been called to endure temptation and to not yield to it. If we do yield to it, then that is because of our own lust or our own desire for something which is outside of God's will for us. And? How does this equate with having a sinful nature? It merely means that a certain desire needs to be repented of and that we need to stop erring in that regard or to stop committing spiritual adultery against God as James later went on to explain. James certainly didn't believe that we had "sinful natures", did he? Don't kid yourself. Here's what James believed:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (James 1:18)

James understood that Christians have been begotten or born again with the word of truth and that they are supposed to be a kind of firstfruits of God's creatures. He went on to describe the real issue in relation to sin when he addressed such things as the wisdom which is DEVILISH or DEMONIC and how when we have committed spiritual adultery against God we need to repent and to submit ourselves unto God and to RESIST THE DEVIL. Oh, you mean that THE DEVIL is the real tempter and not our flesh? Yes, that's exactly what I mean. If we choose to yield our members unto him, then we are sinning for he that sins is of the devil.

Does this answer your question? It should.

Clearly its the flesh that we are to crucify daily...its not debatable any an honest believer understands that...as far as your desire to sin...You still didn't describe or explain where that desire comes from in you, except to refuse to use the term "sinful nature" which is not important to me...because I know its your "flesh" just like every other believer. So please explain in clear terms , what part of you desires to sin?

 

[JesusistheChrist]

We have to read the rest of the verse....................the new creation CANNOT sin.

The new creation in Christ CANNOT grieve or quench the Spirit.

Rom 7:17~~New American Standard Bible
So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

No, it cannot HABITUALLY sin or PRACTICE sin. Hey, that's your testimony and not mine, so maybe you should examine yourself to see if you're even in the faith. I do sin at times, but certainly not HABITUALLY and I certainly don't PRACTICE sin. If we truly live our lives the way that we're supposed to as Christians by humbly abiding in the Vine and by humbly seeking the empowerment of the Holy Spirit in our lives, then sinning isn't really an issue because neither Christ nor the Holy Spirit are going to lead us into sin. Quite frankly, I don't think of sin nearly as often as you seemingly do. Instead, I'm much more concerned with finding out exactly what God wants me to do on any given day, as opposed to what He doesn't want me to do (sin), so we seem to have totally different mindsets. Christians are supposed to not even have a consciousness of sin anymore in that their consciences are supposed to be purged by the blood of Christ, but some of you seem to be enamored in not only sin itself, but also the constant thoughts of the same.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Clearly its the flesh that we are to crucify daily...its not debatable any an honest believer understands that...as far as your desire to sin...You still didn't describe or explain where that desire comes from in you, except to refuse to use the term "sinful nature" which is not important to me...because I know its your "flesh" just like every other believer. So please explain in clear terms , what part of you desires to sin?

Clearly its the flesh that we are to crucify daily...EVEN THOUGH THE BIBLE TEACHES THE EXACT OPPOSITE?

Our conversation is over. I've answered all of your questions scripturally and you obviously find yourself to be wiser than the Word of God in that you consistently exalt your own opinions over what the scriptures say.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Answer one question...do you sin? If so..where does that desire come from? If you say you don't? your a liar according to Gods Word and the truth is not in you.

I just saw this.

Do you even read my posts before responding to them? I've answered your "one question" multiple times already. Like I said, we're done.

 

[Mitspa]

Clearly its the flesh that we are to crucify daily...EVEN THOUGH THE BIBLE TEACHES THE EXACT OPPOSITE?

Our conversation is over. I've answered all of your questions scripturally and you obviously find yourself to be wiser than the Word of God in that you consistently exalt your own opinions over what the scriptures say.

No ...you didn't not answer where your sin comes from? because you cannot unless you admit its in your flesh...just as the bible CLEARLY teaches.

 

[Mitspa]

I just saw this.

Do you even read my posts before responding to them? I've answered your "one question" multiple times already. Like I said, we're done.

No you have not! and you cant, because you would have to admit the truth.

 

[Mitspa]

So I think he admitted he sins? But not as much as others do

But he don't have sin in his flesh..so then his sin must come from a willful desire to sin...he wants to even tho he has no sin in him...that's just so unbiblical!

 

[oldthennew]

for myself, after conversion, there was just no way that I could immediately become 'sinless' -
after years of being an habitual-sinner, it would be impossible for me to just 'quit'

my worldly patterns, my speech patterns, my thought patterns, my dependence upon myself,
were all consuming...and I just couldn't pretend that I was an automatic, perfect, person,,,,
the Holy Spirit convicted me of the mountainous work that lay ahead of me,,,,,
I was the only pupil in the class-room, and He was and is my Only Teacher....

in today's world, we are taught to expect instant results....'fast-foods-take-a-pill-text',,,,,,,
but, our experience has been a life-time of experiencing how to 'over-come' all of our previous weaknesses,
when we were of the world.

this journey is the high-light of all who are called and chosen of Christ....as Paul has taught,
fight the good fight of Faith, and put on the whole armour of God, unto the very end...................

the race ain't done till the race is run......

brothers and sisters, may we love and cherish one another in this most blessed journey that has
been given to us.
AMEN.