Question About Tongues

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shotgunner

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#21
#21
KJV1611 said:
This subject fascinates me, I appreciate the conversation. Where does the bible say that an unknown tongue isn't another earthly language?
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Tongues may be other earthly languages as it was when those in the upper room first received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2

1 Cor.12:10 speaks of divers kinds of tongues which just means different kinds.

1 Cor.14:2 speaks of a kind of tongue that is unknown to any man.

Then the same chapter goes on to speak of a tongue that is to be given in the church by way of an interpreter for the benefit of all.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#22
Dec 12, 2013
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#22
shotgunner said:
The early churches were without the completed word of God as well as “ministers” trained in the “languages” of the nations round about. The early gifts were used to substantiate the message and the messenger until the completed word of God came. As the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century played out and as the Bible came to completion the miraculous gifts that accompanied the early word slowly faded out and were finally done away with at the completion of the word of God and the end of the apostolic age which was the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century. It is interesting to note that other church letters state that a work of faith, hope, and love prevailed in the Lord’s churches in the latter third of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century and there is no apparent problem with this gift of “tongues” in the churches that were mature (complete) as they had moved on from childish things and had grown up embracing faith, hope and love as the three remaining spiritual gifts.

Are these the scriptures you are basing your statement on?
1 Corinthians 13:8-13King James Version (KJV)[SUP]8 [/SUP]Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

These scriptures aren't speaking of the Bible as "that which is perfect" coming so that we don't need tongues. What it says is that when we meet Jesus face to face there will be no need for all those other gifts to operate, only faith hope and love will remain.
Click to expand...
Tongues will CEASE, Prophecies shall FAIL and Imparted KNOLWEDGE will vanish away....Paul was clear....NOW ABIDETH...NOT next week, not next year, not when Jesus comes, but RIGHT NOW (when PAUL pens the Corinthian letter) RIGHT NOW ABIDES FAITH, HOPE and LOVE.......I will not argue....those who want to reject the word NOW ABIDETH, CEASE, FAILETH and VANISH AWAY have a ball.....I will wait till I see the Lord and he can instruct me if my stance on the above 6 words are in error as applied unto the gifts of the early church!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#23
Dec 12, 2013
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#23
shotgunner said:
Tongues may be other earthly languages as it was when those in the upper room first received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2

1 Cor.12:10 speaks of divers kinds of tongues which just means different kinds.

1 Cor.14:2 speaks of a kind of tongue that is unknown to any man.

Then the same chapter goes on to speak of a tongue that is to be given in the church by way of an interpreter for the benefit of all.
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Now, brethren, if I come unto to speaking with tongues, what shall it profit you, except I speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?”
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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#24
Nov 23, 2013
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#24
shotgunner said:
The early churches were without the completed word of God as well as “ministers” trained in the “languages” of the nations round about. The early gifts were used to substantiate the message and the messenger until the completed word of God came. As the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century played out and as the Bible came to completion the miraculous gifts that accompanied the early word slowly faded out and were finally done away with at the completion of the word of God and the end of the apostolic age which was the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century. It is interesting to note that other church letters state that a work of faith, hope, and love prevailed in the Lord’s churches in the latter third of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century and there is no apparent problem with this gift of “tongues” in the churches that were mature (complete) as they had moved on from childish things and had grown up embracing faith, hope and love as the three remaining spiritual gifts.

Are these the scriptures you are basing your statement on?
1 Corinthians 13:8-13King James Version (KJV)[SUP]8 [/SUP]Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

These scriptures aren't speaking of the Bible as "that which is perfect" coming so that we don't need tongues. What it says is that when we meet Jesus face to face there will be no need for all those other gifts to operate, only faith hope and love will remain.
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I don't think it's talking about the bible either. I think it's talking about the end when we are glorified.
 
S

shotgunner

Guest
#25
#25
dcontroversal said:
Tongues will CEASE, Prophecies shall FAIL and Imparted KNOLWEDGE will vanish away....Paul was clear....NOW ABIDETH...NOT next week, not next year, not when Jesus comes, but RIGHT NOW (when PAUL pens the Corinthian letter) RIGHT NOW ABIDES FAITH, HOPE and LOVE.......I will not argue....those who want to reject the word NOW ABIDETH, CEASE, FAILETH and VANISH AWAY have a ball.....I will wait till I see the Lord and he can instruct me if my stance on the above 6 words are in error as applied unto the gifts of the early church!
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Now while I am writing this letter we see darkly, but then when we are face to face with Jesus, we shall know him even as we are known by him.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#26
Nov 23, 2013
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#26
shotgunner said:
Tongues may be other earthly languages as it was when those in the upper room first received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2

1 Cor.12:10 speaks of divers kinds of tongues which just means different kinds.

1 Cor.14:2 speaks of a kind of tongue that is unknown to any man.

Then the same chapter goes on to speak of a tongue that is to be given in the church by way of an interpreter for the benefit of all.
Click to expand...
I think unknown tongues are languages that we don't know, whether it be earthly languages, tongues of angels or even symbolic language i.e. the language most of the bible is written in.
 
Word_Swordsman

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
#27
Sep 16, 2014
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#27
RickyZ said:
Yes a tongue spoken publically I an assembly must have an interpretation. One way I saw a church handle this was, if you felt you were being led to speak, you would inform leadership who would then wait for someone who felt led to interpret make themselves know to leadership.
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That isn't supported by scripture, screening messages in tongues in a church service. That does happen, but squelches the Spirit. A new pastor took over at a formerly very vibrant AOG church here last year, doing that very thing. Months later no tongues are spoken at all there, even though half a dozen members have been the messengers, and two interpreting at most, plus the former pastor if nobody spoke up.

I've never known anyone that knew beforehand they would be used for delivering a message with the congregational gifts of tongues in any one service, nor would they or the interpreter know ahead of time they will be used to interpret. It ought to be the Holy Spirit determining if and when at the moment He chooses. That gift had better be spontaneous, instant in season, else be suspected as concocted between tongues speaker and interpreter.

A more acceptable way to handle tongues lacking interpretation is for the pastor or a teacher to speak out about that, teaching the congregation what they just heard was a mis-fire, usually whoever should have interpreted lacking in obedience, without calling out their name. Eventually the congregation learns, and those called upon by the Lord can stop being afraid to speak. The ones speaking in tongues ought to me spiritually mature enough to hear the Lord say to hold off, there being no interpretation coming. IOW, if the Lord gives the tongues, he can also say to skip that gift in the first place until another can begin exercising his or her gift.

The OP question concerns tongues and interpretation being exercised a maximum of three times in one service. There are other gifts that need their share of time. It interesting that often we receive a message that way, resulting in pastor changing his sermon to preach around the message that came through tongues. Those tend to be very powerful sermons.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#28
#28
shotgunner said:
The early churches were without the completed word of God as well as “ministers” trained in the “languages” of the nations round about. The early gifts were used to substantiate the message and the messenger until the completed word of God came. As the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century played out and as the Bible came to completion the miraculous gifts that accompanied the early word slowly faded out and were finally done away with at the completion of the word of God and the end of the apostolic age which was the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century. It is interesting to note that other church letters state that a work of faith, hope, and love prevailed in the Lord’s churches in the latter third of the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century and there is no apparent problem with this gift of “tongues” in the churches that were mature (complete) as they had moved on from childish things and had grown up embracing faith, hope and love as the three remaining spiritual gifts.

Are these the scriptures you are basing your statement on?
1 Corinthians 13:8-13King James Version (KJV)[SUP]8 [/SUP]Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

These scriptures aren't speaking of the Bible as "that which is perfect" coming so that we don't need tongues. What it says is that when we meet Jesus face to face there will be no need for all those other gifts to operate, only faith hope and love will remain.
Click to expand...
"perfect" is in the neuter gender. It cannot, cannot,cannot ,cannot refer to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is NOT a "thing" He is always referred to in the masculine gender.

And the believers "perfection" or "glorification" is the feminine gender.


The "perfect" is the completed canon.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#29
Dec 12, 2013
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#29
shotgunner said:
1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)[SUP]12 [/SUP]For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Now while I am writing this letter we see darkly, but then when we are face to face with Jesus, we shall know him even as we are known by him.
Click to expand...

I see you passed right over and NOW ABIDETH!
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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#30
Nov 23, 2013
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#30
My question is, is the verse below talking about two or three men speaking or one man speaking in at the most three languages. The way I see it, the subject of the verse is unknown tongues, hence the man should only be speaking in at the most three unknown tongues.

1Co_14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#31
Dec 12, 2013
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#31
KJV1611 said:
I think unknown tongues are languages that we don't know, whether it be earthly languages, tongues of angels or even symbolic language i.e. the language most of the bible is written in.
Click to expand...
Really....Abraham had no problem understanding the angels sent to destroy the cities of the plains...Lot understood them...Daniel understood Gabriel ...Mary had no problem understanding the angel at the tomb of Jesus.....
 
Last edited:
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#32
Dec 12, 2013
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#32
Gr8grace said:
"perfect" is in the neuter gender. It cannot, cannot,cannot ,cannot refer to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is NOT a "thing" He is always referred to in the masculine gender.

And the believers "perfection" or "glorification" is the feminine gender.


The "perfect" is the completed canon.
Click to expand...
That gender reference jives with the Spirit which is neuter also.....The Spirit is the TRUTH<-----two definite articles and a be verb.....anyway..in the classification of words...Spirit is neuter
 
S

shotgunner

Guest
#33
#33
Gr8grace said:
"perfect" is in the neuter gender. It cannot, cannot,cannot ,cannot refer to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is NOT a "thing" He is always referred to in the masculine gender.

And the believers "perfection" or "glorification" is the feminine gender.


The "perfect" is the completed canon.
Click to expand...
That's because it's not speaking of Jesus but a specific time frame. It's the time in which we stand face to face with Jesus.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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#34
Nov 23, 2013
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#34
dcontroversal said:
Really....Abraham had no problem understanding the angels sent to destroy the cities of the plains...Lot understood them...Daniel understood Gabriel ...Mary had no problem understanding the angel at the tomb of Jesus.....
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Probably because the angels spoke to them in their own language. There is a tongue of angels:

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 
G

Gr8grace

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#35
#35
dcontroversal said:
That gender reference jives with the Spirit which is neuter also.....The Spirit is the TRUTH<-----two definite articles and a be verb.....anyway..in the classification of words...Spirit is neuter
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Bingo....:cool:
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#36
Dec 12, 2013
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#36
KJV1611 said:
Probably because the angels spoke to them in their own language. There is a tongue of angels:

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
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Is probably 100% known for sure ;) hahah
 
S

shotgunner

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#37
#37
dcontroversal said:
I see you passed right over and NOW ABIDETH!
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If you must,
Now abideth faith Hope and love. They abide now and will continue to abide even when we are face to face with Jesus
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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#38
Nov 23, 2013
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#38
Any Greek experts able to explain this verse from the Greek perspective?

1Co_14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#39
Dec 12, 2013
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#39
shotgunner said:
If you must,
Now abideth faith Hope and love. They abide now and will continue to abide even when we are face to face with Jesus
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Now how does that jive with Paul saying the other three would cease, vanish and fail.......if I said to you that the 2 dollar bill would not be produced anymore, but NOW they are still producing the dollar....how would you take that!

One would fail, one would cease and one would vanish but NOW ABIDES is grammatically clear!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#40
Dec 12, 2013
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#40
KJV1611 said:
Any Greek experts able to explain this verse from the Greek perspective?

1Co_14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
Click to expand...

If you read down through verse 28 the context remains singular as in ONE man speaking...it seems it is indicative of a singular man speaking one to three languages with ONE interpreting and if no interpreters let him SPEAK to himself........just off the cuff...
 
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