If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.
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Never choose disputed texts; if you do, you are sure to cut yourself. The Spirit that chooses disputed texts is the boldness born of impudence, not the fearlessness born of morality. Remember God calls us to proclaim the Gospel. A man may increase his intellectual status by controversy, but only one in a thousand can maintain his spiritual life and deny the truth about something. Never denounce a thing about which you know nothing.
The Church was never built on Peter. The True Church was built on the Truth from Peter that Jesus Christ is God. You have to understand there are many people who really do not want the Truth. All they want to do is try and destroy the True Church of God which is the Christian Church.
The only thing that counts is , have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? This is the ONLY thing that counts. Knowing the Scriptures forward and backwards does not count. You can know everything in the Scriptures, have perfect knowledge of what the Scriptures teach, but yet have refused to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you still will not be allowed into Heaven!
And yes you can lose your Salvation. How do you lose your Salvation one asks? Is it by sinning? NO! You cannot lose your Salvation by sinning.
But you can lose your Salvation by losing your Faith that Jesus Christ is God. The problem is once you have lost your Faith and have lost your Salvation, you can NEVER receive Salvation ever again!
Hebrews 6:1-6
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And this we will do if God permits.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
The only thing that counts is , have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? This is the ONLY thing that counts. Knowing the Scriptures forward and backwards does not count. You can know everything in the Scriptures, have perfect knowledge of what the Scriptures teach, but yet have refused to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you still will not be allowed into Heaven!
And yes you can lose your Salvation. How do you lose your Salvation one asks? Is it by sinning? NO! You cannot lose your Salvation by sinning.
But you can lose your Salvation by losing your Faith that Jesus Christ is God. The problem is once you have lost your Faith and have lost your Salvation, you can NEVER receive Salvation ever again!
Hebrews 6:1-6
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And this we will do if God permits.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
K
Well the two of you are misusing the context of teaching in those scriptures, as just because one is placed as a teacher to instruct others in the teachings of the Lord we are not to consider ourselves as a teacher as in take credit for what we are giving to others.
For Jesus clearly said:
(Matthew 23:8) "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.
We must learn to discern between a quality given to a member in the body of Christ and actually taking that title among yourself to say you are the one giving that teaching. The teaching comes from the Holy Spirit through us, not by us personally !!!
P
I have never seen anyone look at it like that.
So one can sin, but it doesn't matter because they can't go to hell once they get saved, yet if one doesn't have a prayer answered, say, and loses faith, then that will keep them from heaven?
I have never seen a believer that said is going to enter heaven, but you just did because there are a lot of believers on this forum that sin. I'm sure they'll be glad to hear that.
Here we have two examples - one where the apostles didn't have enough faith and knew it, and the other where Peter walked on water so he did have faith, but then began sinking because he lost his faith.
Which of the two went to hell? Both of them or just Peter?
Luke 17:5 "And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith."
Matthew 14:29=31 "And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?"
Do you even listen to the words that come out of your mouth?
So one can sin, but it doesn't matter because they can't go to hell once they get saved, yet if one doesn't have a prayer answered, say, and loses faith, then that will keep them from heaven?
I have never seen a believer that said is going to enter heaven, but you just did because there are a lot of believers on this forum that sin. I'm sure they'll be glad to hear that.
Here we have two examples - one where the apostles didn't have enough faith and knew it, and the other where Peter walked on water so he did have faith, but then began sinking because he lost his faith.
Which of the two went to hell? Both of them or just Peter?
Luke 17:5 "And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith."
Matthew 14:29=31 "And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?"
Do you even listen to the words that come out of your mouth?
For Jason:
The apostle Paul references the “offense of the cross” in Galatians 5:11. The cross was an offense to the Jews because their idea of salvation was to “work the works of God” (John 6:28–29), meaning keeping the numerous burdensome Old Testament laws and rules. When Jesus came preaching salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, they were shattered. He made it plain that “by works of the law, no human being will be justified in his sight” (Romans 3:20) and that all their law-keeping was of no value to them whatsoever. Especially repugnant to them was the idea that, without Jesus, they who prided themselves on their meticulous adherence to the letter, if not the spirit, of the law, could do nothing of spiritual value (John 15:5).
Truly, the offense Jesus created was a stumbling block to the Jews, as Paul explained to the Romans. He reminded them of Isaiah’s prophecy that God would lay a Cornerstone (Christ) in Zion over which many would stumble and fall (Isaiah 8:14; 28:16; Psalm 118:22; 1 Peter 2:6). Just as the Jews stumbled over the idea of their works being of no value to God, so do many today hate the idea that Christ will build His church not on human merits, but on His righteousness alone. That message is as offensive today as it was in Jesus’ day. No one likes to be told there is nothing he can do to earn his place in heaven.
The apostle Paul references the “offense of the cross” in Galatians 5:11. The cross was an offense to the Jews because their idea of salvation was to “work the works of God” (John 6:28–29), meaning keeping the numerous burdensome Old Testament laws and rules. When Jesus came preaching salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, they were shattered. He made it plain that “by works of the law, no human being will be justified in his sight” (Romans 3:20) and that all their law-keeping was of no value to them whatsoever. Especially repugnant to them was the idea that, without Jesus, they who prided themselves on their meticulous adherence to the letter, if not the spirit, of the law, could do nothing of spiritual value (John 15:5).
Truly, the offense Jesus created was a stumbling block to the Jews, as Paul explained to the Romans. He reminded them of Isaiah’s prophecy that God would lay a Cornerstone (Christ) in Zion over which many would stumble and fall (Isaiah 8:14; 28:16; Psalm 118:22; 1 Peter 2:6). Just as the Jews stumbled over the idea of their works being of no value to God, so do many today hate the idea that Christ will build His church not on human merits, but on His righteousness alone. That message is as offensive today as it was in Jesus’ day. No one likes to be told there is nothing he can do to earn his place in heaven.
K
We are not to take personal credit for the teaching, but John is saying we do not need teachers from men as the Holy Spirit will give us all truth. If the Holy Spirit however guides you to another person for a certain reason or understanding that is fine, but if you go to these people under your own want and need then you are following the proper order.
For God should always come first in any decision we make !!!
W
"You people" -- As in, everyone who has read or will read your public post? Way to assume.
No kidding -- Have you died, and have returned to share your experience with us?
Seems like a strange way to enter a conversation: HEY GUYS! YOU ALL BELONG TO THE DEVIL! YOU ALL DENY GOD! WHEN YOU DIE, YOU WILL IMMEDIATELY BE JUDGED!
What's this--are we backtracking now? OH HAY, I JUST REALIZED I CONDEMNED LITERALLY EVERYONE--PERHAPS I SHOULD CLARIFY; I ONLY INTENDED TO CONDEMN THOSE WHO THINK THEY HAVE A LICENSE TO SIN.
Wait now, you condemned everyone, then you backtracked and condemned only those who claim they have a license to sin -- and now you're condemning Posthuman specifically for his post here, which questions you after you claim that EVERYONE HERE MURDERED JESUS (Post 838)
The OP says this also. We're still searching for one who claims to have a license to sin -- no luck yet.
God also plainly stated that His followers are to Love God and Love others (the greatest commandments) -- You can choose to believe or ignore. (Matthew 22:36-40)
So are you condemning people here, or not? You claim you're only quoting God's word -- but we clearly see repeated evidence of you serving general condemnations as well as personal judgements.
Flip-flop-flip-flop! Are you "only reciting what God has said" -- or are you adding your own ("this...is why people end up in hell") opinions (which look AN AWFUL LOT LIKE JUDGEMENTS towards others here on CC)?
Huh? Galatians 5:1-5
Huh! That's strange -- I always thought Jesus' time was prior to 1480 AD.
Not sure if this is another general condemnation, or if it's intended to be directed at M33 or Posthuman -- Regardless, is this how you typically go about communicating with those whom you consider Seekers?
"Love for living a life of sin" -- Wow! Anyone else notice how these dudes with the know-it-all attitudes are also always quick with personal judgements/accusations?!
Discipleship 101 -- Please revisit at a local church anywhere for a refresher course.
That's what Jason keeps saying. And we're still looking for one of these people who promotes that it's ok to sin.
Did Jesus also send you to condemn others, based on your personal assumptions?
Well, this was entertaining.
That's it though; simply an entertainment piece -- nothing of substance here; no edification and a purely negative attitude towards fellow Christ followers.
The dude didn't really say much -- but I will say, anyone who believes they can speak with wolves should be in a mental institution.
No kidding -- Have you died, and have returned to share your experience with us?
Seems like a strange way to enter a conversation: HEY GUYS! YOU ALL BELONG TO THE DEVIL! YOU ALL DENY GOD! WHEN YOU DIE, YOU WILL IMMEDIATELY BE JUDGED!
What's this--are we backtracking now? OH HAY, I JUST REALIZED I CONDEMNED LITERALLY EVERYONE--PERHAPS I SHOULD CLARIFY; I ONLY INTENDED TO CONDEMN THOSE WHO THINK THEY HAVE A LICENSE TO SIN.
Wait now, you condemned everyone, then you backtracked and condemned only those who claim they have a license to sin -- and now you're condemning Posthuman specifically for his post here, which questions you after you claim that EVERYONE HERE MURDERED JESUS (Post 838)
The OP says this also. We're still searching for one who claims to have a license to sin -- no luck yet.
God also plainly stated that His followers are to Love God and Love others (the greatest commandments) -- You can choose to believe or ignore. (Matthew 22:36-40)
So are you condemning people here, or not? You claim you're only quoting God's word -- but we clearly see repeated evidence of you serving general condemnations as well as personal judgements.
Flip-flop-flip-flop! Are you "only reciting what God has said" -- or are you adding your own ("this...is why people end up in hell") opinions (which look AN AWFUL LOT LIKE JUDGEMENTS towards others here on CC)?
Huh? Galatians 5:1-5
Huh! That's strange -- I always thought Jesus' time was prior to 1480 AD.
Not sure if this is another general condemnation, or if it's intended to be directed at M33 or Posthuman -- Regardless, is this how you typically go about communicating with those whom you consider Seekers?
"Love for living a life of sin" -- Wow! Anyone else notice how these dudes with the know-it-all attitudes are also always quick with personal judgements/accusations?!
Discipleship 101 -- Please revisit at a local church anywhere for a refresher course.
That's what Jason keeps saying. And we're still looking for one of these people who promotes that it's ok to sin.
Did Jesus also send you to condemn others, based on your personal assumptions?
Well, this was entertaining.
That's it though; simply an entertainment piece -- nothing of substance here; no edification and a purely negative attitude towards fellow Christ followers.
The dude didn't really say much -- but I will say, anyone who believes they can speak with wolves should be in a mental institution.
K
Yes Jesus did not go around spewing hatred at others, but some misuse how Jesus called the Pharisees hypocrites and vipers to spew and justify their bad language and mistreatment of others.
We must remember that the bible says that when you rebuke, reprove, exhort, and esteem others you are to do it out of love and by the word of God. For by it are we to correct, guide, and instruct others in the proper way of the faith. Some miss those steps and use hardly any scripture at all !!!
Just like those who claim to be well knowledgeable in the word yet when speaking to others maybe only 5% of the time do I see mentioned the books name, chapter #, and verse # from them. How are we to trust a person who will not even tell others seeking out the truth where exactly they got what they said in the bible.
V
Jason, I was going to attempt to answer every one of your OP questions and I prayed to the Lord to tell me how to address each one. But instead I am made aware that all of your questions are focused on sin. In fact, you seem obsessed with man falling short of God’s glory.
I perceive that in truth you are questioning not the people on this board, but the grace of God. You wouldn’t spend so much time aggressively disputing OSAS day after day, thread after thread, if you actually believed what you are proclaiming about it. You pursue this thing like a man who finds no rest. It’s a constant nagging question to you and the only way you know how to deal with it is to wrestle against it.
Your deeper question is, “Lord, how can Your grace be that faithful?” You are unsettled in your own heart because you don’t understand it in your carnal mind. You haven’t surrendered your own understanding to the reality that is the grace of Jesus Christ. Jesus reigns forever in His people and nobody or nothing can undo that. Only the Spirit of God can make a man see that, it’s spiritual understanding. It’s impossible for anyone to understand spiritual things with mere intellect. You know that, right?
If OSAS is true, all of your efforts to dispute it have been in vain. If the grace of Jesus Christ can truly secure a man in the grip of God, if a man can’t free himself from the power of God’s eternal grasp, you are fighting against the truth. You don’t want to admit that. But the grace of Christ can make you free to see it if you will admit to the Father that you are in doubt of His grace and that you want to see.
Jason, if I followed you around for one day and was able to read all of your thoughts, how many times would you feel ashamed? How many times would you feel you had fallen short of righteousness? Can you honestly state that you feel you never miss the mark or that your thoughts are always pure and holy? If I watched you all day, could you say that every single act you commit would be holy?
And yet, Jesus wouldn’t condemn you not even once, wouldn’t be disappointed in you ever, would never be angry at you, never give up on you, would continue to guide you, help you, protect you, teach you, meet your every need, conforming you, blessing you, encouraging you, interceding for you, loving you… He will never stop. Not even if your thoughts stray or you err in some way. He’s not a judge, He’s your Friend. That’s grace. It’s God’s unfailing love.
I pray in Jesus’ name the Holy Spirit speak to you with this Word: John 3:1-15
I perceive that in truth you are questioning not the people on this board, but the grace of God. You wouldn’t spend so much time aggressively disputing OSAS day after day, thread after thread, if you actually believed what you are proclaiming about it. You pursue this thing like a man who finds no rest. It’s a constant nagging question to you and the only way you know how to deal with it is to wrestle against it.
Your deeper question is, “Lord, how can Your grace be that faithful?” You are unsettled in your own heart because you don’t understand it in your carnal mind. You haven’t surrendered your own understanding to the reality that is the grace of Jesus Christ. Jesus reigns forever in His people and nobody or nothing can undo that. Only the Spirit of God can make a man see that, it’s spiritual understanding. It’s impossible for anyone to understand spiritual things with mere intellect. You know that, right?
If OSAS is true, all of your efforts to dispute it have been in vain. If the grace of Jesus Christ can truly secure a man in the grip of God, if a man can’t free himself from the power of God’s eternal grasp, you are fighting against the truth. You don’t want to admit that. But the grace of Christ can make you free to see it if you will admit to the Father that you are in doubt of His grace and that you want to see.
Jason, if I followed you around for one day and was able to read all of your thoughts, how many times would you feel ashamed? How many times would you feel you had fallen short of righteousness? Can you honestly state that you feel you never miss the mark or that your thoughts are always pure and holy? If I watched you all day, could you say that every single act you commit would be holy?
And yet, Jesus wouldn’t condemn you not even once, wouldn’t be disappointed in you ever, would never be angry at you, never give up on you, would continue to guide you, help you, protect you, teach you, meet your every need, conforming you, blessing you, encouraging you, interceding for you, loving you… He will never stop. Not even if your thoughts stray or you err in some way. He’s not a judge, He’s your Friend. That’s grace. It’s God’s unfailing love.
I pray in Jesus’ name the Holy Spirit speak to you with this Word: John 3:1-15